planetf1.com

To me it looks like Ocon is still learning and Perez definitely is worried about him. Next year I will not be surprised if Ocon is ahead more often than not. It this does not happen, then we can pretty much say that Perez is the better driver.

Randine wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

RaggedMan wrote:Sainz has been rather clumsy on a couple of occasions this year.

I think it's been more than a couple now. He had those 2 incidents in Bahrain and Canada, both of which he was responsible for 2 cars retiring as well as collecting 2 penalty points and a 3 place grid penalty for the next race on both occations. He then now has also had a crash in practice, and another in the race. He's now been resonsible for more retirements than any driver on the grid this year and in my opinion, that is pretty poor if some people consider him to be pretty close to the top drivers. I think Ricciardo and Verstappen are well ahead of him overall. Sainz has good pace, outstanding at times, but overall, very up and down. I just don't think he's good enough yet for a top team. But things may change in time.

Well he is technically in a top team now.
1 of 3 works teams on the grid. Renault pushing to be world champions again in 2-3 years.

Good point there. We'll just have to find out how good the car is. Sainz is very good at times, but makes huge mistakes very nearly as often. Even last year, I thought Sainz made quite a few mistakes, including Mexico when he made a very risky move on Alonso which could have resulted much worse. He still got penalty for this. Then I remember several other races too over his career where he crashed heavily in practice, such as Russia one time. You would think he should learn from practice, but that often hasn't been the case this year. Hopefully he will get better, or Renault may drop him like Red Bull dropped Kvyat. I actually think Kvyat looked about as good in 2015 at Red Bull as Sainz has so far in Toro Rosso this year.

mikeyg123 wrote:

mcdo wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Ocon isn't matching Perez.

Perez is 11/5 up in quali and 10/4 up on race finishes ahead. Performance wise he is close but almost always behind.

I believe Ocon is doing well for a rookie but not so well that peopole would be calling him a stand put driver if he wasn't in a consistently point's scoring car.

And I've never argued that Perez is a huge talent. I do think he is better than Hulkenberg.

He is now. Jeez at the start of the year the guy was still a rookie in a new team where Perez was entering his 4th season. Giving a driver a period of acclimatization is pretty standard.

If we look at Austria onwards points scored is the only area Perez is ahead:
Qualy: 4-4
Races finished ahead: 4-4
Points scored: 38-30

F*ck all in it

It will be interesting to see how things progress next year.

Don't forget Ocon wasn't a total rookie. He had half a season already. Doesn't sound like much but it does hold a benefit.

Funnily enough Ocon has been closer to Perez as we've moved onto tracks he's raced on in F1 before. He had a similar acclimatisation period against Werhlein last season before he destroyed him at Brazil.

So how does Carlos' stand regarding engine parts?

They are allocated to a driver (so you can't give parts to a team mate I guess), but how does that work when you swap to a new team?

Does he have to make do with what Palmer had left?

mikeyg123 wrote:A big plus for Sainz is that he is a lot further ahead of Kvyat than Ricciardo was.

Not exactly true

Yellowbin74 wrote:So how does Carlos' stand regarding engine parts?

They are allocated to a driver (so you can't give parts to a team mate I guess), but how does that work when you swap to a new team?

Does he have to make do with what Palmer had left?

Yep

Yellowbin74 wrote:So how does Carlos' stand regarding engine parts?

They are allocated to a driver (so you can't give parts to a team mate I guess), but how does that work when you swap to a new team?

Does he have to make do with what Palmer had left?

I think Renault took a penalty with Palmer at Japan to give Sainz a fresh engine.

And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

Somebody should tell them Palmer is available. Imagine if he were to have a good race there... They give him a Red Bull before every session, and two before qualifying and Bob's his uncle!

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

Yellowbin74 wrote:So how does Carlos' stand regarding engine parts?

They are allocated to a driver (so you can't give parts to a team mate I guess), but how does that work when you swap to a new team?

Does he have to make do with what Palmer had left?

I think Renault took a penalty with Palmer at Japan to give Sainz a fresh engine.

Talk about rubbing salt into the wound !!

bradtheboywonder wrote:

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Let's get Frijns in there (think he had a super licence once so he could get a new one based on the 300km test).

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

Ugh. God please no. If it's going to be an American let it be one I can root for. Sadly Rossi already ruled out a full time drive for next year so I doubt he'll do a one off with a team he has no prior association with.

bradtheboywonder wrote:

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Here it is:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13236 ... s-gp-drive

Brandon Hartley is supposed to be the frontrunner with Buemi as the backup.

UnlikeUday wrote:

bradtheboywonder wrote:

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Here it is:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13236 ... s-gp-drive

Brandon Hartley is supposed to be the frontrunner with Buemi as the backup.

Hartley would be more interesting. Buemi would probably be better.

Hartley should be interesting.

Trivia: when was the last time a team changed driver lineup completely between two races in one season?

Hartley must be pushing 30 now though. A little too old to be fresh into F1, although Hill was 30 I suppose.

moby wrote:Hartley must be pushing 30 now though. A little too old to be fresh into F1, although Hill was 30 I suppose.

27 I think.

mds wrote:Hartley should be interesting.

Trivia: when was the last time a team changed driver lineup completely between two races in one season?

Toyota 04 I think.

Started the season with Da Matta and Panis, finished with Zonta and Trulli.

mikeyg123 wrote:

moby wrote:Hartley must be pushing 30 now though. A little too old to be fresh into F1, although Hill was 30 I suppose.

27 I think.

Thought he was older. Seems to have been around a long time

Just looked, you are right 28 next month

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

I thought that it was because Honda wanted him to see the season out so they could win the title from Toyota?

bradtheboywonder wrote:

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Super License points?

UnlikeUday wrote:

bradtheboywonder wrote:

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Here it is:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13236 ... s-gp-drive

Brandon Hartley is supposed to be the frontrunner with Buemi as the backup.

I would have put Buemi in the car.

pokerman wrote:

bradtheboywonder wrote:

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Super License points?

He has them.

pokerman wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

bradtheboywonder wrote:

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Here it is:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13236 ... s-gp-drive

Brandon Hartley is supposed to be the frontrunner with Buemi as the backup.

I would have put Buemi in the car.

People seem to forget that Buemi was inferior to Alguersuari. I think STR know he isn't good enough.

mds wrote:Hartley should be interesting.

Trivia: when was the last time a team changed driver lineup completely between two races in one season?

I remember 94 had some crazy driver swaps

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

bradtheboywonder wrote:

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Super License points?

He has them.

Through the WEC?

Whilst junior drivers have to fight and scrap for them.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

bradtheboywonder wrote:

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Here it is:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13236 ... s-gp-drive

Brandon Hartley is supposed to be the frontrunner with Buemi as the backup.

I would have put Buemi in the car.

People seem to forget that Buemi was inferior to Alguersuari. I think STR know he isn't good enough.

He's better than Hartley.

Can anyone who followed the wec closer than me say something about how/where Hartley ranked among the other drivers this season, performance-wise?

I only remember he was not very impressive in FR 3.5. many years ago.

mikeyg123 wrote:

mds wrote:Hartley should be interesting.

Trivia: when was the last time a team changed driver lineup completely between two races in one season?

Toyota 04 I think.

Started the season with Da Matta and Panis, finished with Zonta and Trulli.

Yes, but between one race and the next they never changed both drivers

MistaVega23 wrote:

mds wrote:Hartley should be interesting.

Trivia: when was the last time a team changed driver lineup completely between two races in one season?

I remember 94 had some crazy driver swaps

Very warm

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Can anyone who followed the wec closer than me say something about how/where Hartley ranked among the other drivers this season, performance-wise?

I only remember he was not very impressive in FR 3.5. many years ago.

I just had to go to his wiki to find his age, there is a little on the end of the page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brendon_Hartley

mds wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

mds wrote:Hartley should be interesting.

Trivia: when was the last time a team changed driver lineup completely between two races in one season?

Toyota 04 I think.

Started the season with Da Matta and Panis, finished with Zonta and Trulli.

Yes, but between one race and the next they never changed both drivers

Oh I see. Back to the drawing board.

Must be Lotus 94. Ran so many drivers that season!

That's it. Portugal (Herbert/Adams) to Jerez (Zanardi/Bernard).

I'd much rather see Buemi get the drive rather than Hartley. Very curious to see how he'd perform in F1 today, even if it were just a one-off appearance. But neither fit Toro Rosso's purpose in life (to give Red Bull's young drivers a way into F1) which is why I still expect to see Kvyat start 2018 alongside Gasly.

Jenson's Understeer wrote:I'd much rather see Buemi get the drive rather than Hartley. Very curious to see how he'd perform in F1 today, even if it were just a one-off appearance. But neither fit Toro Rosso's purpose in life (to give Red Bull's young drivers a way into F1) which is why I still expect to see Kvyat start 2018 alongside Gasly.

Well, in theory Hartley could fit: he was a Red Bull young driver once, and he still is affiliated (i.e. he still has RB backing). Buemi has been in F1 and has been discarded, so I don't expect him for 2018.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:

bradtheboywonder wrote:

Liket wrote:And now Gasly will sit out Austin to finish the Super Formula season, according to autosport this has something to do with Franz Tost being keen to evaluate another driver for 2018. Wonder who that'd be, then?

Scott Speed?

One of my mates said he read somewhere that it's Brandon Hartley, but I can't find a link to a credible source

Here it is:
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13236 ... s-gp-drive

Brandon Hartley is supposed to be the frontrunner with Buemi as the backup.

I would have put Buemi in the car.

People seem to forget that Buemi was inferior to Alguersuari. I think STR know he isn't good enough.

That's not how I remember the partnership. Although he was often hit or miss in the races, in qualifying buemi often put his car amongst faster cars whereas alguersuari invariably didn't, he has good raw speed which is why he has been successful after F1 wherever he has gone. Hartley is good too, either will do well.

mas wrote:
People seem to forget that Buemi was inferior to Alguersuari. I think STR know he isn't good enough.

That's not how I remember the partnership. Although he was often hit or miss in the races, in qualifying buemi often put his car amongst faster cars whereas alguersuari invariably didn't, he has good raw speed which is why he has been successful after F1 wherever he has gone. Hartley is good too, either will do well.[/quote]

Buemi was better in quali (Although it was Alguersuari that got the best quali results of their final season) but couldn't live with Alguersuari in races. Jaime scored nearly double the points in 2011. I don't remember at the end of 2011 many people rating Buemi the better of the two.

mikeyg123 wrote: Buemi was better in quali (Although it was Alguersuari that got the best quali results of their final season) but couldn't live with Alguersuari in races. Jaime scored nearly double the points in 2011. I don't remember at the end of 2011 many people rating Buemi the better of the two.

By the end of 2011 I thought he had potential and he could have had a decent F1 career if given the chance. People often forget how young he was when he came into F1. He's been out of F1 for 6 seasons already and he's still only 27!

To this date he's still the third youngest to start an F1 race and the fifth youngest to score points in F1.