2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

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Herb Tarlik
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Herb Tarlik »

Blake wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:Every single team on the grid would have done the same thing :nod:
Yes, but when Mercedes does it, it's baaaaaaaaad.
That's because of Hamilton's hypocrisy. His snide remarks about Vettel's advantage with team orders have created the responses you are crying about.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Caserole of Nonsense
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Caserole of Nonsense »

Clarky wrote:So Ferrari didnt replace the faulty spark plug:
@NobleF1
Ferrari ran out of time before race start to change faulty spark plug on Sebastian Vettel's car
knowing how stupidly complex these engines have become they probably have to remove the cylinder head or something equally as daft

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Covalent
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Covalent »

pokerman wrote:
lamo wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:Very impressed with how Max conducted his interview with Sky. He was very frank and mature, and pointed out that the traffic didn't cost him the win, because if the traffic hadn't been there then he wouldn't have caught Hamilton in the first place, because of the way the Mercedes was affected from following other cars he benefited from it more than he lost out.

It's of the most mature and honest interviews I've seen from a driver.
Yes, good and frank interview. Funny that he suggested Bottas should have blocked him harder and held him up even longer to protect Lewis since he is the WDC challenger.
Bottas was called into the pits for tyres, they basically didn't want to ruin his race, a true #2 would have stayed out to protect his supposed team leader.
And he did. They delayed his pit stop to help Lewis.

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Lotus49
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Lotus49 »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Ennis wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ennis wrote:Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.
You do realise that Alonso had to see the stewards about impeding Hamilton?
Yeah but he was only fake impeding so he could time the impeding of Verstappen better going in to the final lap.
That's some plan from Alonso. I'm pretty sure he was focusing on trying to get a point for his team rather than concocting a scheme to annoy Seb.

They clearly don't like each other but I think that's a bit far fetched.
Sometimes, I have to wonder at the thought process that goes into some of the conspiracy theories.

it's one thing to sit on your sofa watching the race thinking "If I wait to let past Hamilton an Verstappen until the penultimate lap then that will give Hamilton a greater change to win the race, which will give him more points in his fight against Vettel, seven more in fact, and Vettel retired so it will be like really really useful to him"

It's a completely different thing when you are on a race track, fighting for position in an underpowered car, exhausted after 90 minutes of race, and suddenly you start seeing the blue flags - and then, inbetween taking high G force corners every few seconds go and make the same logical deduction in your head and think "yeah, that will be tricky to pull off, but it's totally worth potentially screwing my entire race up over"
Yeah, If anything I wondered if Massa/Alonso were a bit surprised at how bad the Mercedes was in dirty air. You don't want to break rhythm in S1 as it takes so much time off your lap and the best place is probably going into the chicane at the end of the lap or the hairpin in S2 but until that lap the Merc just struggled to keep up in S1 and through Spoon so it was never an easy move aside job imo, especially considering they were fighting for position too.

Seems unlikely during all that Alonso suddenly went... :idea:
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
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Herb Tarlik
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Herb Tarlik »

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Clarky wrote:So Ferrari didnt replace the faulty spark plug:
@NobleF1
Ferrari ran out of time before race start to change faulty spark plug on Sebastian Vettel's car
knowing how stupidly complex these engines have become they probably have to remove the cylinder head or something equally as daft
But the hybrid engines are soooooooo great.

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Xink
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Xink »

Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
lamo wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:Very impressed with how Max conducted his interview with Sky. He was very frank and mature, and pointed out that the traffic didn't cost him the win, because if the traffic hadn't been there then he wouldn't have caught Hamilton in the first place, because of the way the Mercedes was affected from following other cars he benefited from it more than he lost out.

It's of the most mature and honest interviews I've seen from a driver.
Yes, good and frank interview. Funny that he suggested Bottas should have blocked him harder and held him up even longer to protect Lewis since he is the WDC challenger.
Bottas was called into the pits for tyres, they basically didn't want to ruin his race, a true #2 would have stayed out to protect his supposed team leader.
And he did. They delayed his pit stop to help Lewis.

Well the “delay window” was only 2 laps max. to help Lewis.
Initially by keeping him out - Lewis was losing time in the dirty air behind Bottas.
They could definitely have kept him out for another lap or two until such a time Max overtook him.

Hamilton has had copious amounts of fortune in the last few weeks - but not a great deal of assistance from his team-mate . Even the aid of a “rear- gunner” as Kimi provided in Hungary is not something Bottas has been able to do for one reason or other .
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pokerman
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
lamo wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:Very impressed with how Max conducted his interview with Sky. He was very frank and mature, and pointed out that the traffic didn't cost him the win, because if the traffic hadn't been there then he wouldn't have caught Hamilton in the first place, because of the way the Mercedes was affected from following other cars he benefited from it more than he lost out.

It's of the most mature and honest interviews I've seen from a driver.
Yes, good and frank interview. Funny that he suggested Bottas should have blocked him harder and held him up even longer to protect Lewis since he is the WDC challenger.
Bottas was called into the pits for tyres, they basically didn't want to ruin his race, a true #2 would have stayed out to protect his supposed team leader.
And he did. They delayed his pit stop to help Lewis.
Then Hamilton would have been let by straight away and Verstappen delayed much longer, Verstappen said himself that he was surprised by how little he was delayed by Bottas.
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lamo

Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by lamo »

Yes Bottas had 11 seconds back to Kimi when he came out the pits, Mercedes could have left him out for another 5 or 6 laps at the rate Kimi was undercutting him. But it would have killed his chance to get Ricciardo. He pretty much did the optimum strategy for a soft to super soft race, maybe 1 or 2 laps out from that.

He only went 5 laps longer than Ricciardo and in order to overtake him he arguably needed more of a fresh tyre advantage than that on top of his softer compound

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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Ennis »

pokerman wrote:
Ennis wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ennis wrote:Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.
You do realise that Alonso had to see the stewards about impeding Hamilton?
Yeah but he was only fake impeding so he could time the impeding of Verstappen better going in to the final lap.
I'm just wondering how you can have fake impeding? :?
Only Alonso has the talent to do this. He also operates on a different plane than normal humans so I wouldn't expect humans to understand it.

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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Ennis »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Ennis wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ennis wrote:Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.
You do realise that Alonso had to see the stewards about impeding Hamilton?
Yeah but he was only fake impeding so he could time the impeding of Verstappen better going in to the final lap.
That's some plan from Alonso. I'm pretty sure he was focusing on trying to get a point for his team rather than concocting a scheme to annoy Seb.

They clearly don't like each other but I think that's a bit far fetched.
Sometimes, I have to wonder at the thought process that goes into some of the conspiracy theories.

it's one thing to sit on your sofa watching the race thinking "If I wait to let past Hamilton an Verstappen until the penultimate lap then that will give Hamilton a greater change to win the race, which will give him more points in his fight against Vettel, seven more in fact, and Vettel retired so it will be like really really useful to him"

It's a completely different thing when you are on a race track, fighting for position in an underpowered car, exhausted after 90 minutes of race, and suddenly you start seeing the blue flags - and then, inbetween taking high G force corners every few seconds go and make the same logical deduction in your head and think "yeah, that will be tricky to pull off, but it's totally worth potentially screwing my entire race up over"
My original comment was 100% being facetious, but if you think that most drivers least of all Alonso isn't capable of processing logical thoughts whilst driving an F1 car you're doing him a disservice. I reckon at least half the drivers could complete a Sudoku whilst they complete their race.

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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Ennis wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ennis wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ennis wrote:Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.
You do realise that Alonso had to see the stewards about impeding Hamilton?
Yeah but he was only fake impeding so he could time the impeding of Verstappen better going in to the final lap.
I'm just wondering how you can have fake impeding? :?
Only Alonso has the talent to do this. He also operates on a different plane than normal humans so I wouldn't expect humans to understand it.
I'm sure you're not being serious.

Anyway this fake impeding fooled the stewards as well as they gave him 2 penalty points on his license.
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Ennis wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Ennis wrote:
pokerman wrote: You do realise that Alonso had to see the stewards about impeding Hamilton?
Yeah but he was only fake impeding so he could time the impeding of Verstappen better going in to the final lap.
That's some plan from Alonso. I'm pretty sure he was focusing on trying to get a point for his team rather than concocting a scheme to annoy Seb.

They clearly don't like each other but I think that's a bit far fetched.
Sometimes, I have to wonder at the thought process that goes into some of the conspiracy theories.

it's one thing to sit on your sofa watching the race thinking "If I wait to let past Hamilton an Verstappen until the penultimate lap then that will give Hamilton a greater change to win the race, which will give him more points in his fight against Vettel, seven more in fact, and Vettel retired so it will be like really really useful to him"

It's a completely different thing when you are on a race track, fighting for position in an underpowered car, exhausted after 90 minutes of race, and suddenly you start seeing the blue flags - and then, inbetween taking high G force corners every few seconds go and make the same logical deduction in your head and think "yeah, that will be tricky to pull off, but it's totally worth potentially screwing my entire race up over"
My original comment was 100% being facetious, but if you think that most drivers least of all Alonso isn't capable of processing logical thoughts whilst driving an F1 car you're doing him a disservice. I reckon at least half the drivers could complete a Sudoku whilst they complete their race.
Then Alonso made a poor job of it because he impeded Hamilton more than Verstappen.
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by wolfticket »

Ennis wrote:Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.
I've been watching Alonso when he gets lapped. I really don't think it's anything personal, I think he just just knows the rules and has the capacity/confidence to exploit them to his own end. While a lot of lapped drivers will leap out of the way on sight, he seems to be perfectly happy to use his full allowance of 3 corners after the first blue flag. Then if there a two cars lapping him he won't compromise himself further to let them both past at once: He'll slot in and take another 3 corners if needs be. And also, as evidenced today, he'll risk a penalty if he thinks the risk/reward makes sense.
He doesn't seem to really care about what how this affects the front runners or whether it ends up being fair or not, and while I get that this is annoying, you have to ask you're self: From a sporting POV why should he care?
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

wolfticket wrote:
Ennis wrote:Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.
I've been watching Alonso when he gets lapped. I really don't think it's anything personal, I think he just just knows the rules and has the capacity/confidence to exploit them to his own end. While a lot of lapped drivers will leap out of the way on sight, he seems to be perfectly happy to use his full allowance of 3 corners after the first blue flag. Then if there a two cars lapping him he won't compromise himself further to let them both past at once: He'll slot in and take another 3 corners if needs be. And also, as evidenced today, he'll risk a penalty if he thinks the risk/reward makes sense.
He doesn't seem to really care about what how this affects the front runners or whether it ends up being fair or not, and while I get that this is annoying, you have to ask you're self: From a sporting POV why should he care?
Alonso should feel relieved that from next year onwards, he'll be battling in the top 8 & wouldn't need to move over for cars.
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

Has it been mentioned Mercedes had a problem with Hamilton's car in the morning and needed to change a spark plug.
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

F1_Ernie wrote:Has it been mentioned Mercedes had a problem with Hamilton's car in the morning and needed to change a spark plug.
Yes I heard that and on that subject I heard that the oil used in the engine was not just for burning but cooling as well. The new Ferrari engine was designed to be used with the 1.2 litre rules and not the 0.9 litre rule and the problems the engines have suffered with is overheating in certain parts of the engine caused by the heat experienced in both Malaysia and Japan on raceday.

The spark plug or coil failures relate to how the HCCI system works and the stress it puts these parts under, and this has been exasperated by the new oil rule and the heat experienced at the Asian circuits, this has sort of been put out there and I'm not a Technical person so I've done my best to explain.
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mmi16
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mmi16 »

Must have been a spark plug out of balance! :)
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pc27b »

nice result for haas....tight battle between them and renault in the constructors race

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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by kleefton »

pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:Has it been mentioned Mercedes had a problem with Hamilton's car in the morning and needed to change a spark plug.
Yes I heard that and on that subject I heard that the oil used in the engine was not just for burning but cooling as well. The new Ferrari engine was designed to be used with the 1.2 litre rules and not the 0.9 litre rule and the problems the engines have suffered with is overheating in certain parts of the engine caused by the heat experienced in both Malaysia and Japan on raceday.

The spark plug or coil failures relate to how the HCCI system works and the stress it puts these parts under, and this has been exasperated by the new oil rule and the heat experienced at the Asian circuits, this has sort of been put out there and I'm not a Technical person so I've done my best to explain.
I thought that all new engines introduced after the summer break had to conform to 0.9?

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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by kleefton »

UnlikeUday wrote:
wolfticket wrote:
Ennis wrote:Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.
I've been watching Alonso when he gets lapped. I really don't think it's anything personal, I think he just just knows the rules and has the capacity/confidence to exploit them to his own end. While a lot of lapped drivers will leap out of the way on sight, he seems to be perfectly happy to use his full allowance of 3 corners after the first blue flag. Then if there a two cars lapping him he won't compromise himself further to let them both past at once: He'll slot in and take another 3 corners if needs be. And also, as evidenced today, he'll risk a penalty if he thinks the risk/reward makes sense.
He doesn't seem to really care about what how this affects the front runners or whether it ends up being fair or not, and while I get that this is annoying, you have to ask you're self: From a sporting POV why should he care?
Alonso should feel relieved that from next year onwards, he'll be battling in the top 8 & wouldn't need to move over for cars.
Hopefully. Mclaren needs to ensure the car is on par again next year, and Renault needs to show some improvement and not fall behind after introducing their new concept.

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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:Has it been mentioned Mercedes had a problem with Hamilton's car in the morning and needed to change a spark plug.
Yes I heard that and on that subject I heard that the oil used in the engine was not just for burning but cooling as well. The new Ferrari engine was designed to be used with the 1.2 litre rules and not the 0.9 litre rule and the problems the engines have suffered with is overheating in certain parts of the engine caused by the heat experienced in both Malaysia and Japan on raceday.

The spark plug or coil failures relate to how the HCCI system works and the stress it puts these parts under, and this has been exasperated by the new oil rule and the heat experienced at the Asian circuits, this has sort of been put out there and I'm not a Technical person so I've done my best to explain.
I thought that all new engines introduced after the summer break had to conform to 0.9?
Yes but it's been mooted that the Ferrari engine was originally designed for the 1.2 limit, the oil is also used for cooling and this has caused them some issues at the 0.9 limit when running in hot climates.
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by LBET »

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
lamo wrote:
Clarky wrote:
@adamcooperF1
VET has received a reprimand for failing to attend the national anthem on the grid
This is a ridiculous penalty, a fine would be suffice. A penalty that can result in a grid penalty for missing an anthem is not appropriate.
I wonder whether it was deliberately severe to set a precedent in order to deal with any potential negative publicity should Hamilton decide to take the knee in Austin, or at the very least deter him.
This is a face saving move. They had to eventually penalize him for something! Unless he pulls another hissy fit the extra demerit point won't hurt and the ruling body get's to check off a completed task.

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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by LBET »

Herb Tarlik wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Clarky wrote:So Ferrari didnt replace the faulty spark plug:
@NobleF1
Ferrari ran out of time before race start to change faulty spark plug on Sebastian Vettel's car
knowing how stupidly complex these engines have become they probably have to remove the cylinder head or something equally as daft
But the hybrid engines are soooooooo great.
They Hybrid engine is the result of a misguided desire in F1 to remain road relevant and the myopic focus gave us the results we have today. A sudo spec series. I think the problem is the degree and placement of that relevance. i.e. Forget road relevance and focus on Fan and F1 relevance and come up with "the best solution for the sport".

http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/18393 ... rian-newey

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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by LBET »

Ennis wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ennis wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Ennis wrote:Does Alonso dislike Vettel, or like Hamilton more? Two races in a row he's pushed the limits when it comes to hindering Vettel, and helping Hamilton.

Between Alonso and Verstappen, it's not a bad pair of rear gunners for Hamilton to have.
You do realise that Alonso had to see the stewards about impeding Hamilton?
Yeah but he was only fake impeding so he could time the impeding of Verstappen better going in to the final lap.
I'm just wondering how you can have fake impeding? :?
Only Alonso has the talent to do this. He also operates on a different plane than normal humans so I wouldn't expect humans to understand it.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mcdo »

LBET wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Clarky wrote:So Ferrari didnt replace the faulty spark plug:
@NobleF1
Ferrari ran out of time before race start to change faulty spark plug on Sebastian Vettel's car
knowing how stupidly complex these engines have become they probably have to remove the cylinder head or something equally as daft
But the hybrid engines are soooooooo great.
They Hybrid engine is the result of a misguided desire in F1 to remain road relevant and the myopic focus gave us the results we have today. A sudo spec series. I think the problem is the degree and placement of that relevance. i.e. Forget road relevance and focus on Fan and F1 relevance and come up with "the best solution for the sport".

http://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/18393 ... rian-newey
Get behind Formula E, allow it to flourish and to soak up as big a manufacturer presence as possible. Support their advances in electric technology and all the marketing plus points that come with it. Only then can F1 drop the road relevancy facade and go back to being a rugged and raw motorsport that exists for the pure passion of racing. If there is no other single-seater series ticking the green technology box then I expect we'll always be stuck with some form of this semi-eco friendly mongrel that F1 has become

If Merc wanna leave, let 'em go. If Renault wanna leave, let 'em go too. F1 would do just fine without the manufacturers. A grid powered by Ferrari and Cosworth V8s/V10s/V12s would be just fine
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slide
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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by slide »

if you wreck your car , you add a risk of problems in the rebuild, but Ferrari are blaming themselves over their quality control not the clumsy slow down lap , bring the car car home and treat it with care whilst doing that and everybody is happy particulary the mechanics

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Re: 2017 Japanese Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Mayhem »

Vid of what happens when daniel riccardo takes your phone & Hamilton video blog of trip to japan


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DLK-V-eCJKI
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