K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

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JackAttack_19
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K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by JackAttack_19 »

"The most unsporting driver on the grid" - Nico Hulkenberg

"Hulkenberg was right", and later ""For his driving, we more or less agree with the other drivers, it's 19-1." - Fernando Alonso.


So, is K-Mag fundamentally a dangerous, unsporting driver? Or does he simply take the "I'll LEGALLY put my car here, and it's up to you whether we have an accident" mentality and apply it rather liberally? This too, can be construed as unsporting and dangerous in certain circumstances

I get the feeling in part, it's because the Haas is a bit of a pig and they've been left behind in the development race. He's frustrated, and trying to compensate by being ultra fiesty in every battle. I also get the feeling there's a fair amount of truth to Alonso's "19-1" comment, which causes K-MAG to basically not give a rats about being terribly sporting towards them. I think Alonso not trying to really make T2 yesterday was him saying "If we're going to play this game, I'll oblige, and my reputation won't be affected, unlike yours."

Thoughts, feelings and emotions?

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UnlikeUday
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by UnlikeUday »

His driving portrays his arrogance. Since Hungary, I believe he's been hardly using his mirrors & doesn't believe in giving room to opponents on the track.
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funkymonkey
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by funkymonkey »

If I was Haas, I wouldnt offer him any more extensions after current contracts run our of if I have termination clause, I would use it if some other good driver lines up and becomes available.

Refusal to admit owns fault is very dangerous in motorsport. What I find funny is that he does not have raw talent,s peed or money to be as cocky and stupid as he has been this year. Maldonado at least had raw speed at times and fairy cakes of money.

JackAttack_19
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by JackAttack_19 »

funkymonkey wrote:If I was Haas, I wouldnt offer him any more extensions after current contracts run our of if I have termination clause, I would use it if some other good driver lines up and becomes available.
On this point, I'm actually surprised Haas aren't ahead of Sauber in the Leclerc stakes, if he is indeed going to a 'junior' team. Sit him in a car alongside RoGro, a driver with 100+ starts from whom I'm sure he can learn something. Better for his development than being alongside whoever Sauber can get, whether it's Giovinazzi whom I do rate very highly or if they maintain Ericsson.

As for K-Mag, I think he's at a dead end now and honestly has little business in Formula 1 on this seasons effort. If Haas want to move up the grid, he'd be the first thing I'd look at changing out. I'm all for wheel to wheel action, and I like that the stewards are intervening less. But some of what he does is plainly regressive to his and his teams situation. I don't think I'm missing anything when I say he's not likely to be missed if this season is it for him.

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mds
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by mds »

I think it is unfair of Alonso to use the "we all think he's wrong"-argument. I'm pretty sure they didn't have a vote between the 19 of them - it's a bullish statement. And if he's using it to validate dirty driving of his own then it's an even lower blow.

Didn't he pretty much do the same with Palmer in Monza?
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mikeyg123
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by mikeyg123 »

I don't think he is any less sporting than nearly half the grid TBH. Stars like, Alonso, Vettel and Verstappen included. Sainz, Massa, Hulkenberg, Grosjean and Palmer will all run other cars off the road given any opportunity.

Ennis
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by Ennis »

I don't think he's any worse than anyone else. I quite like him as a driver.

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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

mikeyg123 wrote:I don't think he is any less sporting than nearly half the grid TBH. Stars like, Alonso, Vettel and Verstappen included. Sainz, Massa, Hulkenberg, Grosjean and Palmer will all run other cars off the road given any opportunity.
I think I can partly agree with this. I think in this sense, he is a bit similar to several of the drivers you mentioned, but to me, he just does these slightly unreasonable moves more often. But if he does't get into trouble for it, I don't actually have any problem with this. One thing I thing is worse about him that most is his attitude. Him, Kvyat and Sainz are some of the worst drivers when it comes to how they speak on the radio. Possibly Alonso too but at leased he doesn't swear. He just never stops moaning. I could even add Vettel but he only has occasional frustrations on the radio that make him end up using bad language.

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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

I thought the Alonso-Magnussen duel was nice to watch and a good example of hard-but-not-too-hard fighting from both sides. Duels like this make racing worth watching IMO.

And, seriously, Verstappen, Vettel, Sainz etc. are every bit as hard in duels if not harder.

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moby
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by moby »

I do not see him as any worse than another driver on the track, its his after race response that seems to wind people up. His reply to Hulk would have got a different response from me :twisted:

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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by GingerFurball »

I watched the Vettel-Alonso-Button-Magnussen duel from Spa 2014 on YouTube last week and I felt Magnussen's driving that day left a lot to be desired.

mikeyg123
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by mikeyg123 »

We even had Ricciardo in the last race weaving down the straight and moving in the braking zone when defending from Vettel.

ReservoirDog
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by ReservoirDog »

He's a mix of Perez and Massa. Arrogance and stubbornness without the talent to go with it, and always blaming others.

Pullrod
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by Pullrod »

Just an attempt at bullying by the usual suspects(drivers).
There is nothing wrong with Magnussen.

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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by pc27b »

mds wrote:I think it is unfair of Alonso to use the "we all think he's wrong"-argument. I'm pretty sure they didn't have a vote between the 19 of them - it's a bullish statement.

Didn't he pretty much do the same with Palmer in Monza?

alonso is regarded as one of the best, kmag is more or less a nobody (compared to alonso) after the on track battle, i too thought alonso's statement was a load of garbage. because it comes from a top driver to a relative nobody, it sticks though. kmag did nothing wrong--and nothing alonso hasn't done before--

on the constant playing of the drivers whining after every on track duel....am i the only one tired of hearing that over and over yesterday?

edit--edited auto correct !
Last edited by pc27b on Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Zoue
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by Zoue »

pc27b wrote:
mds wrote:I think it is unfair of Alonso to use the "we all think he's wrong"-argument. I'm pretty sure they didn't have a vote between the 19 of them - it's a bullish statement.

Didn't he pretty much do the same with Palmer in Monza?

alonso is regarded as one of the best, kmag is more or less a nobody (compared to alonso) after the on track battle, i thought too thought alonso's statement was a load of garbage. because it comes from a top driver to a relative nobody, it sticks though. omg did nothing wrong--and nothing alonso hasn't done before--

on the constant playing of the drivers whining after every on track duel....am i the only one tired of hearing that over and over yesterday?
yes, it is a bit "Please Sir! Sir!" Brundle alluded to it in his column and it's grown up out of the penalty culture. Drivers know that crying out may get the opposition nobbled and secure a better position for them. It's a bit like football (soccer) players rolling around on the pitch after being assaulted by the opponent's hairstyle. They do it practically by instinct

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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

Alonso is the biggest cry baby. He hates Petrov because he blocked him in Abu dhabi and lost the title to Vettel. He has a problem with Vettel, Ferrari in general. He was crying out Palmer in one of the races. Yesterday he basically hit Kevin Mag, horrible driving. I really hope he retires soon.

Sainz is probably the worst driver wheel to wheel. I like Kevin Mag and his response to Hulk was absolutely epic :lol: Haas has got great drivers. I think they are better than FI drivers but their car is not fast enough for regular points.
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kerneys
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by kerneys »

mikeyg123 wrote:We even had Ricciardo in the last race weaving down the straight and moving in the braking zone when defending from Vettel.
I'm going by my memory here but I thought it was more a case of breaking at a bit of an angle back on to the traditional racing line rather adjusting his trajectory in the breaking zone.

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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by Herb »

Zoue wrote:
pc27b wrote:
mds wrote:I think it is unfair of Alonso to use the "we all think he's wrong"-argument. I'm pretty sure they didn't have a vote between the 19 of them - it's a bullish statement.

Didn't he pretty much do the same with Palmer in Monza?

alonso is regarded as one of the best, kmag is more or less a nobody (compared to alonso) after the on track battle, i thought too thought alonso's statement was a load of garbage. because it comes from a top driver to a relative nobody, it sticks though. omg did nothing wrong--and nothing alonso hasn't done before--

on the constant playing of the drivers whining after every on track duel....am i the only one tired of hearing that over and over yesterday?
yes, it is a bit "Please Sir! Sir!" Brundle alluded to it in his column and it's grown up out of the penalty culture. Drivers know that crying out may get the opposition nobbled and secure a better position for them. It's a bit like football (soccer) players rolling around on the pitch after being assaulted by the opponent's hairstyle. They do it practically by instinct
Webber was saying the same after the race yesterday on C4.

I completely agree - I'm bored of the whining from the drivers.

They're obviously being primed by the teams for it too, the FI engineers talked to Ocon about reporting, or not reporting contact/bad driving during the race.

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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by pokerman »

With Alonso it's all about politics, he basically hit KMag then immediately got on the radio to criticise him knowing the stewards would hear what he had to stay to try and stave off any penalty for himself, whilst Alonso himself has no qualm with running other drivers off the track.

Having said all of that I don't disagree with what's been said about KMag, an average driver with seemingly little respect for other drivers on the track, basically the reason he's still in F1 next year is because he signed a 2 year deal with Hass, beyond that I wouldn't care for him still being in F1.
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by pokerman »

Mercedes-Benz wrote:Alonso is the biggest cry baby. He hates Petrov because he blocked him in Abu dhabi and lost the title to Vettel. He has a problem with Vettel, Ferrari in general. He was crying out Palmer in one of the races. Yesterday he basically hit Kevin Mag, horrible driving. I really hope he retires soon.

Sainz is probably the worst driver wheel to wheel. I like Kevin Mag and his response to Hulk was absolutely epic :lol: Haas has got great drivers. I think they are better than FI drivers but their car is not fast enough for regular points.
There are some things I agree with here, Alonso's deliberate block on Vettel when he was chasing down Ricciardo is pure jealousy because he gave that car to Vettel and the last thing that he wants is for Ferrari to win the title because he himself said that Ferrari would never win any titles.

Whilst he cries about other drivers he himself gets away with all kinds of poor driving against other drivers and I believe because he's Alonso he gets away with it, including sometimes cutting the track on the start of races.

On to Sainz another dirty driver who deliberately hit Ocon and spun him off, he's also taken on Verstappen's mantra of moving in the braking zone to defend his position.

Overall this allowing the drivers to race against one another without knee jerk penalties I believe has started a new breed of crass driving.
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by KingVoid »

I remember how Ron Dennis told him mid-2014 (I think it might have been after Hungary) that he needs to be more aggressive when racing. The following race in Spa he put Alonso on the grass at Kemmel straight and pushed him wide several times at Rivage.

He's been like this ever since.

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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by pokerman »

KingVoid wrote:I remember how Ron Dennis told him mid-2014 (I think it might have been after Hungary) that he needs to be more aggressive when racing. The following race in Spa he put Alonso on the grass at Kemmel straight and pushed him wide several times at Rivage.

He's been like this ever since.
Whitmarsh did the same with Perez and then he went beserk on the track, then later Perez basically got sacked for it, total mismanagement, no surprise later to see Whitmarsh getting sacked for various decisions he made.
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mikeyg123
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Zoue wrote:
pc27b wrote:
mds wrote:I think it is unfair of Alonso to use the "we all think he's wrong"-argument. I'm pretty sure they didn't have a vote between the 19 of them - it's a bullish statement.

Didn't he pretty much do the same with Palmer in Monza?

alonso is regarded as one of the best, kmag is more or less a nobody (compared to alonso) after the on track battle, i thought too thought alonso's statement was a load of garbage. because it comes from a top driver to a relative nobody, it sticks though. omg did nothing wrong--and nothing alonso hasn't done before--

on the constant playing of the drivers whining after every on track duel....am i the only one tired of hearing that over and over yesterday?
yes, it is a bit "Please Sir! Sir!" Brundle alluded to it in his column and it's grown up out of the penalty culture. Drivers know that crying out may get the opposition nobbled and secure a better position for them. It's a bit like football (soccer) players rolling around on the pitch after being assaulted by the opponent's hairstyle. They do it practically by instinct

It's the teams fault not the drivers. Ocon was told off by his engineer twice in the race for not whining about incidents.

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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by GingerFurball »

pc27b wrote:
mds wrote:I think it is unfair of Alonso to use the "we all think he's wrong"-argument. I'm pretty sure they didn't have a vote between the 19 of them - it's a bullish statement.

Didn't he pretty much do the same with Palmer in Monza?

alonso is regarded as one of the best, kmag is more or less a nobody (compared to alonso) after the on track battle, i thought too thought alonso's statement was a load of garbage. because it comes from a top driver to a relative nobody, it sticks though. omg did nothing wrong--and nothing alonso hasn't done before--

on the constant playing of the drivers whining after every on track duel....am i the only one tired of hearing that over and over yesterday?
The problem is that unless the drivers start crying over the radio, the stewards don't appear to be interested in doing anything.

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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by pc27b »

i'm fine with the stewards doing less, much less investigating and handing out of penalties

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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by pokerman »

GingerFurball wrote:
pc27b wrote:
mds wrote:I think it is unfair of Alonso to use the "we all think he's wrong"-argument. I'm pretty sure they didn't have a vote between the 19 of them - it's a bullish statement.

Didn't he pretty much do the same with Palmer in Monza?

alonso is regarded as one of the best, kmag is more or less a nobody (compared to alonso) after the on track battle, i thought too thought alonso's statement was a load of garbage. because it comes from a top driver to a relative nobody, it sticks though. omg did nothing wrong--and nothing alonso hasn't done before--

on the constant playing of the drivers whining after every on track duel....am i the only one tired of hearing that over and over yesterday?
The problem is that unless the drivers start crying over the radio, the stewards don't appear to be interested in doing anything.
This is true they often say they didn't investigate because no one complained.
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Herb Tarlik
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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by Herb Tarlik »

ReservoirDog wrote:He's a mix of Perez and Massa. Arrogance and stubbornness without the talent to go with it, and always blaming others.
Well said. I would not be unhappy if Haas dropped him. To think that at one time MAG had a seat at McLaren!!

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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by ReservoirDog »

Herb Tarlik wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:He's a mix of Perez and Massa. Arrogance and stubbornness without the talent to go with it, and always blaming others.
Well said. I would not be unhappy if Haas dropped him. To think that at one time MAG had a seat at McLaren!!
Funnily both of HAAS' drivers are similar - Kmag and Grosjean. Always whining about something and never have the pace or race craft to justify being a sugarplum.

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Re: K-Mag: Dangerous, unsporting or simply misunderstood?

Post by Exediron »

He's been an unfair driver since 2014. I can remember people talking about his unsporting defensive driving all the way back then, and nothing has changed.
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