Disaster Train's Next Stop: USA

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Herb Tarlik
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Disaster Train's Next Stop: USA

Post by Herb Tarlik »

Planet F1 is saying, in two separate articles, that Vettel's gearbox is shot and he will have to take a 5 grid position penalty next race.

Maybe disaster is too strong a word for a 5 grid position penalty, but Ferrari are surely having a pretty impressive display of bad luck.

The two articles that mention Vettel's destroyed gearbox:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/vettel-alo ... rari-fan//

http://www.planetf1.com/news/no-further ... tel-crash/
Last edited by Herb Tarlik on Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mas
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by mas »

Fate it appears does not want him to win the 2017 wdc. I thought Stroll made the greater change of direction in their incident but it really doesn't matter as it won't get his gearbox back. Vettel had a long stretch of good luck as well as his great ability in winning those 4 wdcs for Red Bull, maybe this year good fortune is just not going to be on his side.

KingVoid
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by KingVoid »

I wonder if Ferrari can appeal a gearbox penalty to the FIA on the grounds that it was Stroll's fault.

I don't think it's ever happened before, but it is worth a try. They have the evidence on worldwide television.

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moby
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by moby »

KingVoid wrote:I wonder if Ferrari can appeal a gearbox penalty to the FIA on the grounds that it was Stroll's fault.

I don't think it's ever happened before, but it is worth a try. They have the evidence on worldwide television.
If they were to appeal, I would think it would be on the same grounds as an item damaged in transit, as the race had finished and the cars were making their way back to the recovery area.

I think this means it is allowed if a poll of all teams agree to it

Herb Tarlik
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Herb Tarlik »

KingVoid wrote:I wonder if Ferrari can appeal a gearbox penalty to the FIA on the grounds that it was Stroll's fault.

I don't think it's ever happened before, but it is worth a try. They have the evidence on worldwide television.
But the stewards did not assign fault to Stroll.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by F1_Ernie »

I have read it should be ok.
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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

KingVoid wrote:I wonder if Ferrari can appeal a gearbox penalty to the FIA on the grounds that it was Stroll's fault.

I don't think it's ever happened before, but it is worth a try. They have the evidence on worldwide television.
The only evidence that has appeared on worldwide television are the reportings of the stewards enquiries which have concluded that the official and legal conclusion to the incident is that blame cannot be apportioned to either party.

Therefore such evidence would and can only support a verdict that it is not Stroll's fault.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Zoue »

Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by pokerman »

Herb Tarlik wrote:Planet F1 is saying, in two separate articles, that Vettel's gearbox is shot and he will have to take a 5 grid position penalty next race.

Maybe disaster is too strong a word for a 5 grid position penalty, but Ferrari are surely having a pretty impressive display of bad luck.

The two articles that mention Vettel's destroyed gearbox:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/vettel-alo ... rari-fan//

http://www.planetf1.com/news/no-further ... tel-crash/
Vettel's talking like Ferrari will get a special dispensation for changing his gearbox, given that Stroll wasn't penalised by the stewards and Vettel was passing Stroll for no good reason I wonder how they will make that work?

Like Stroll said Vettel was coming past him like they were still in a race.
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by pokerman »

KingVoid wrote:I wonder if Ferrari can appeal a gearbox penalty to the FIA on the grounds that it was Stroll's fault.

I don't think it's ever happened before, but it is worth a try. They have the evidence on worldwide television.
Apart from you and Vettel were is the official line that it was Stroll's fault?
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Herb Tarlik wrote:
KingVoid wrote:I wonder if Ferrari can appeal a gearbox penalty to the FIA on the grounds that it was Stroll's fault.

I don't think it's ever happened before, but it is worth a try. They have the evidence on worldwide television.
But the stewards did not assign fault to Stroll.
Indeed. I think that is more than enough evidence that no matter how badly Vettel's car is damaged, he won't get a gear box change without a penalty. Even if it was Stroll's fault, I don't think they would allow Ferrari to get a free gear box change somehow. Because getting a brand new one without penalties as this stage can only be considered as a slight advantage as it is less likely to go wrong in the remaining races as it will have done less distance. I know things could go either way and it could be just as likely fail, but I just don't think they would allow this. If Stroll was to blame, he would have probably be given some penalty points and a grid drop for next race. I think this indicated that at the worst, it was both of the drivers at fault, but I somehow feel more likely that as Vettel suffered the consequences and they still took no further action, then I feel they may have but most of the blame on Vettel.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.
If Stroll had been behind Vettel then you would have had a point.
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.
If Stroll had been behind Vettel then you would have had a point.
Just leave aside who is to blame for the moment. The fact that a competitor gets penalised for changing a part that was involved in accident is surely absurd?

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Invade »

Zoue wrote:Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.

Exactly.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by flyboy10 »

It's Ferrari. They can probably convince the authorities to grant them a special dispensation.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.
If Stroll had been behind Vettel then you would have had a point.
Just leave aside who is to blame for the moment. The fact that a competitor gets penalised for changing a part that was involved in accident is surely absurd?
Them's the rules you can't change them to suit, also what's been pointed out giving Vettel a brand new gearbox gives him an advantage over Hamilton.
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by pokerman »

Invade wrote:
Zoue wrote:Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.

Exactly.
Another thing how is that further penalising Vettel?
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by flyboy10 »

I'm just watching a TV program about Boris Johnson. I thought you meant he was going to Suzuka.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Option or Prime »

Invade wrote:
Zoue wrote:Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.

Exactly.
Except he wasn't 'rammed'. Its a 'racing incident' so the blame is 50:50

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by ReservoirDog »

The 'box is fine and has been flown to Italy for repairs.

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Blake
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Blake »

ReservoirDog wrote:The 'box is fine and has been flown to Italy for repairs.
That news will break the hearts of a couple of our posters on this thread!
:lol:
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Flash2k11
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Flash2k11 »

Well, its either fine or it needs repairs lol

If its just the casing that is broken, then yes, it can be repaired. If its something further, Ferrari will be taking one hell of a risk with it. 5 places is a drop in the ocean compared to a gearbox related DNF.
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by JackAttack_19 »

Is it a complete disaster though? IF they can get the gearbox back in order, they're set. Worst case there, 5 places in Suzuka. Not ideal, but not a disaster I wouldn't think. Did Vettel also not take 2 NEW engines this weekend? Effectively meaning he has one fresh ICE, and one fresh minus any wear from the race ICE? Ditto the TC, MGU-H?

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Zazu »

JackAttack_19 wrote:Is it a complete disaster though? IF they can get the gearbox back in order, they're set. Worst case there, 5 places in Suzuka. Not ideal, but not a disaster I wouldn't think. Did Vettel also not take 2 NEW engines this weekend? Effectively meaning he has one fresh ICE, and one fresh minus any wear from the race ICE? Ditto the TC, MGU-H?
Of course it would be a complete disaster. No matter what he did in qualifying he'd start behind both mercs and both red bulls at a circuit they should go well at (assuming normal qually results)

I don't think hell need a new gearbox. It wasnt a big collision, people just getting overexcited about ifs.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
Zoue wrote:Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.

Exactly.
Another thing how is that further penalising Vettel?
If he has to take a penalty.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Zoue »

Option or Prime wrote:
Invade wrote:
Zoue wrote:Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.

Exactly.
Except he wasn't 'rammed'. Its a 'racing incident' so the blame is 50:50
way to miss the point

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.
If Stroll had been behind Vettel then you would have had a point.
Just leave aside who is to blame for the moment. The fact that a competitor gets penalised for changing a part that was involved in accident is surely absurd?
Them's the rules you can't change them to suit, also what's been pointed out giving Vettel a brand new gearbox gives him an advantage over Hamilton.
I'm not sure I said you should change them to suit? I'm highlighting the absurdity of potentially punishing someone for the consequences of an accident, regardless of who was at fault

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Zoue »

flyboy10 wrote:It's Ferrari. They can probably convince the authorities to grant them a special dispensation.
because that happens all the time?

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by lamo »

Zazu wrote:
JackAttack_19 wrote:Is it a complete disaster though? IF they can get the gearbox back in order, they're set. Worst case there, 5 places in Suzuka. Not ideal, but not a disaster I wouldn't think. Did Vettel also not take 2 NEW engines this weekend? Effectively meaning he has one fresh ICE, and one fresh minus any wear from the race ICE? Ditto the TC, MGU-H?
Of course it would be a complete disaster. No matter what he did in qualifying he'd start behind both mercs and both red bulls at a circuit they should go well at (assuming normal qually results)

I don't think hell need a new gearbox. It wasnt a big collision, people just getting overexcited about ifs.
Starting 6th-8th in Japan would be a disaster for Vettel, that is probably worse than starting last in Malaysia. If Hamilton finishes ahead of him again, he starts to run out races. Especially if Hamilton wins and he is say 3rd/4th.

These gearboxs are fragile, this suspension failure required a new gearbox for Nico -

https://youtu.be/6g4jCRECYoI?t=1m22s

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by chetan_rao »

Why does the replacement have to be brand new? Why can't he be given an intact gearbox with similar mileage to the damaged one to maintain performance parity?

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Zazu »

In the rosberg clip there was a huge shunt into the barrier

I don't understand why people think he shouldn't incur a penalty. It was unfortunate but stewards called it 50/50. Just a bad day at the office

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by slide »

i 'd like to know the size of the repair bills that Ferrari have faced in the last few weeks

and think of the Ferrari repair people -they are getting some practice in at the moment

and wasn't stroll picking up rubber , and they sometimes move about a bit

and why does vettel keeps finding himself in these silly positions and after a brilliant comeback too

and the image of vettel coming round the corner with his rear wheel up above the rear wing will be played again and again and was funny
just as the caption " driver of the day -sebasian vettel " was scrolling across the bottom of the screen , lol

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by ReservoirDog »

Flash2k11 wrote:Well, its either fine or it needs repairs lol

If its just the casing that is broken, then yes, it can be repaired. If its something further, Ferrari will be taking one hell of a risk with it. 5 places is a drop in the ocean compared to a gearbox related DNF.
Fine in the sense that it can be re-used.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by jimmyj »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:Perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the rules that would further penalise someone for having their gearbox rammed.
If Stroll had been behind Vettel then you would have had a point.
Just leave aside who is to blame for the moment. The fact that a competitor gets penalised for changing a part that was involved in accident is surely absurd?
Totally agree.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Caserole of Nonsense »

slide wrote:i 'd like to know the size of the repair bills that Ferrari have faced in the last few weeks

and think of the Ferrari repair people -they are getting some practice in at the moment

and wasn't stroll picking up rubber , and they sometimes move about a bit

and why does vettel keeps finding himself in these silly positions and after a brilliant comeback too

and the image of vettel coming round the corner with his rear wheel up above the rear wing will be played again and again and was funny
just as the caption " driver of the day -sebasian vettel " was scrolling across the bottom of the screen , lol
interesting article from martin brundle (find it yourselves) about vettels sense of entitlement bordering on disrespectful actions on the race track. i generally agree with how brundle sees things and with this too. many of his incidents over the years could be put in the 'driving around the track like you own it and you are the only thing that matters' category.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Option or Prime »

Yes, it is a good one, Brundle's comments reflect the feeling of Coulthard and Webber on C4, that is a better way of saying what other posters on here have described as arrogance and might in part explain his magnetic attraction to other cars.
Link below: http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24182/ ... orld-title

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by ReservoirDog »

Option or Prime wrote:Yes, it is a good one, Brundle's comments reflect the feeling of Coulthard and Webber on C4, that is a better way of saying what other posters on here have described as arrogance and might in part explain his magnetic attraction to other cars.
Link below: http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24182/ ... orld-title
I respect Brundle, but he went a bit overboard here.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by Warheart01 »

Maybe he should stop crashing into people? Sure, it wasn't all his fault I get that but had he been more aware the situation could have easily been avoided.

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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by tootsie323 »

ReservoirDog wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:Yes, it is a good one, Brundle's comments reflect the feeling of Coulthard and Webber on C4, that is a better way of saying what other posters on here have described as arrogance and might in part explain his magnetic attraction to other cars.
Link below: http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/24182/ ... orld-title
I respect Brundle, but he went a bit overboard here.
Hmm... stopped reading it after 'intentionally hit another car behind the Safety Car in Baku.'
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slide
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Re: Disaster Train's Next Stop: Japan

Post by slide »

max summed it up , you shouldn't drive like that if you are close to a title , kimi had nothing to lose, max had nothing to lose

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