Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

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Whose fault is it anyway?

Vettel
90
60%
Verstappen
16
11%
Raikkonen
6
4%
Racing Incident
37
25%
 
Total votes: 149

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tootsie323
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by tootsie323 »

I blame Lord Vader. Clearly unimpressed with the bright, rebellious, livery of the red beasts, he initiated a tractor beam from the pits drawing the front three cars inexorably towards that side of the track until the inevitable happened.
Mock me if you will (OK, racing incident), but I'd maintain that this argument is superior to some explanations I have read thus far.
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sandman1347
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by sandman1347 »

Zoue wrote:
lamo wrote:
Zoue wrote:
slide wrote:kimi had nothing to lose , max had nothing to lose , seb had a championship to lose
Yep, as did Hamilton at Monza. Yet he still veered over the width of the track. Was he just lucky that nobody behind him messed up?
Does anybody have Stroll's on board for Monza? I remember Stroll never being alongside. Moving over when you have over lap between cars and moving over when you don't have overlap are two completely different things.
Not according to Hamilton. He says you can't see what's happening behind you and determining exactly where the other cars are is pretty difficult
It's interesting how you appeal to Hamilton's authority on this because it fits with your own argument. When he says something you don't like, you attack his credibility or integrity...

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by ReservoirDog »

lamo wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:There have been several posts saying the respective drivers had minimal knowledge of the location of the other drivers involved because the mirrors are both small and poorly located.
Is there any reason why with the size and resolution of camera technology why the drivers cant have practically 360 vision via camera. The clip above gives footage for consumption on youtube, why on earth can't the guys who might be involved in a high speed collision be given sight of the cars around them.
At least that eliminates the excuse...."I didn't see him."
I have always wondered why this hasn't been implemented or at least some kind of laser/radar and beeps in the ear if a car approaches either side of you. I guess weight is key.
Other things I'd like to see are auto braking, collision avoidance, and that thing in cars that keeps you at a constant distance. Also, the first lap should be run by AI anyway to avoid any contact. Maybe make this part of 2021 regs?

lamo

Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by lamo »

Schuberth did already experiment with this back in 2003/2004, with the current technology I am surprised teams haven't adopted it now. It seems a better solution to mirrors and probably lighter than mirrors now too.

Image

Image

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

Siao7 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
mcdo wrote:This carefully chosen snapshot shows Max as being almost dead straight from his grid slot to me. Look at how many cars are in a straight line behind him on his side of the grid. I count 4. And I'm not even counting Bottas, who has moved further to the left than Max has

Meanwhile Vettel is sweeping in from the right
Agreed.

This vantage point "seems" to trick some into "seeing" Max veering right, when in fact, if you look at Vettels' car, he's pointing significantly left.
The on-boards clearly show Max was going straight.
Max was going straight, but he had pointed his car towards Vettel on the start, away from his box. It is not difficult to see that in the videos; here, I've uploaded for you.

Image
All I have ot say to this is… Really?? LOL
Really, lol? You can see Max pointing towards Vettel and not being in a straight line like Kimi, right? ....Riiight? Do I have to point it to you?
LOL of course you'd miss the point of my post.

Look at the picture and tell my how many of the drivers have their cars pointed towards one another. In fact, there are 6 cars in the shot that are all pointing inward towards the center of the track, and 3 either going straight or veering outward.

The point is you're grasping at straws because it's a given that drivers pull out of their box and steer in the directions they see fit to best position themselves to go through turn 1, both unscathed and maintaining the best possible position exiting the turn. Vettel is turned equally towards Verstappen.

Just sayin'.
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Option or Prime
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Option or Prime »

ReservoirDog wrote:
lamo wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:There have been several posts saying the respective drivers had minimal knowledge of the location of the other drivers involved because the mirrors are both small and poorly located.
Is there any reason why with the size and resolution of camera technology why the drivers cant have practically 360 vision via camera. The clip above gives footage for consumption on youtube, why on earth can't the guys who might be involved in a high speed collision be given sight of the cars around them.
At least that eliminates the excuse...."I didn't see him."
I have always wondered why this hasn't been implemented or at least some kind of laser/radar and beeps in the ear if a car approaches either side of you. I guess weight is key.
Other things I'd like to see are auto braking, collision avoidance, and that thing in cars that keeps you at a constant distance. Also, the first lap should be run by AI anyway to avoid any contact. Maybe make this part of 2021 regs?
Sorry RD, bit over the top, the suggestion was for a mirror because we always get the excuse I couldn't see him, which is what you say at as the police stop you after a road traffic accident!!

What you are suggesting are driver aids, I prefer to drive myself but if you like and need that sort of thing by all means go ahead! ;)

shoot999
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by shoot999 »

Image

Stick the biggest mirrors you like on; Vettel would just have had a better view of Bottas, Ricc and Hamilton.

lamo

Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by lamo »

One thing I've realised with all the shots of the start is how deceptive certain camera angles can be. Max looks like he is almost coming to be level in that picture but really his front wheels are just in line with Vettels rears.

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Blake »

shoot999 wrote:
Stick the biggest mirrors you like on; Vettel would just have had a better view of Bottas, Ricc and Hamilton.
Agreed. Bigger mirrors or in car cameras would not hsve allowed Vettel to see Max much better and certainly not Kimi.

Better review systems might help after the starts, but i would guess that fast paced and busy action at the starts sould not really allow the drivers much time for the mirrors.

Shoot you may want to mark this date on the calendar@
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Blake »

Duplicate
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Fiki »

Blake wrote:Duplicate
Just in case this was an order. ;)
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Glen C.
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Glen C. »

Proximity transponders to see others abreast shown on the already busy steering wheel display coupled with tones of various frequencies. Shrieks left or right when within a few inches.

Spotters. Simple verbal

Cheers

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by ALESI »

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nlu22

Singapore 2010, Alonso does exactly what Vettel did (race starts at 24:45)
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Teddy007 »

tootsie323 wrote:I blame Lord Vader. Clearly unimpressed with the bright, rebellious, livery of the red beasts, he initiated a tractor beam from the pits drawing the front three cars inexorably towards that side of the track until the inevitable happened.
Mock me if you will (OK, racing incident), but I'd maintain that this argument is superior to some explanations I have read thus far.
I'd agree.

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Teddy007 »

ALESI wrote:http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nlu22

Singapore 2010, Alonso does exactly what Vettel did (race starts at 24:45)
You're absolutely right. It's another reason Vettel didn't suffer a penalty.

The major difference is though - one resulted in an accident. It's a risk by every driver who pulls that move. You are trusting the other driver to move and that no one is the other side.

It's like when a driver over takes in the inside and outbreaks them. You are trusting the other driver to see you and leave enough space. You are also placing trust in both breaks/lock ups.

It's a risk, Seb was within his right to take and majority of leaders have done the same. Just because other drivers have done it though and avoided accidents - doesn't remove who's fault it is. If Alonso had caused a crash because the Red Bull didn't move - Alonso is to blame regardless. Do they deserve penalties? I don't think so. If Alonso/Vettel went on to win the race after causing a crash and the other driver gets a DNF - a penalty would have happened.

Although both drivers did the exact same thing - the result wasn't the same.

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by dompclarke »

Just out of interest if Kimi wasn't there, max continued straight and he and seb collided who would you blame?

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by mcdo »

Glen C. wrote:Proximity transponders to see others abreast shown on the already busy steering wheel display coupled with tones of various frequencies. Shrieks left or right when within a few inches.

Spotters. Simple verbal

Cheers

GC
I was really annoyed by the Channel 4 guys interviewing Jeff Gordon after the Singapore GP. They asked him for his thoughts on the start crash and if he had any suggestions from his vast experience of pack racing in NASCAR. Jeff explained the idea behind spotters and how they help on ovals. He suggested a spotter may be of some help to F1 drivers off the start.

DC and Webber just rubbished him: "It's too short a run to Turn 1", "A spotter would never prevent that accident"

Jeff was standing there like "Yeah we still have crashes in NASCAR too, you just asked me for a suggestion!"

Why even ask if him if they were just going to attack him?
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Fiki »

mcdo wrote:
Glen C. wrote:Proximity transponders to see others abreast shown on the already busy steering wheel display coupled with tones of various frequencies. Shrieks left or right when within a few inches.

Spotters. Simple verbal

Cheers

GC
I was really annoyed by the Channel 4 guys interviewing Jeff Gordon after the Singapore GP. They asked him for his thoughts on the start crash and if he had any suggestions from his vast experience of pack racing in NASCAR. Jeff explained the idea behind spotters and how they help on ovals. He suggested a spotter may be of some help to F1 drivers off the start.

DC and Webber just rubbished him: "It's too short a run to Turn 1", "A spotter would never prevent that accident"

Jeff was standing there like "Yeah we still have crashes in NASCAR too, you just asked me for a suggestion!"

Why even ask if him if they were just going to attack him?
And yet it has been tried in F1.

I think that any coaching or proximity system would just lead to the choppers to time their moves with more precision. And since there's nothing in the rules that forbids it, I don't really see this behaviour disappearing. Increased situational awareness about cars alongside would certainly make for safer racing, and possibly less race interruptions to clear up after the little boys. Achieving it, without reducing current safety standards, is quite a challenge.

In this particular case, I think it is worth noting that Vettel hit neither Verstappen's, nor Räikkönen's car. Which means that Vettel's chop was successful, doesn't it? All the more reason to keep doing it, some drivers will doubtless conclude. Races are won by turn 1 after all.
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by mds »

Teddy007 wrote: It's a risk, Seb was within his right to take and majority of leaders have done the same. Just because other drivers have done it though and avoided accidents - doesn't remove who's fault it is. If Alonso had caused a crash because the Red Bull didn't move - Alonso is to blame regardless. Do they deserve penalties? I don't think so. If Alonso/Vettel went on to win the race after causing a crash and the other driver gets a DNF - a penalty would have happened.
If Vettel had been able to continue and win the race in Singapore, I'm still confident he wouldn't have got a penalty because he was in his right to do what he did - all of these three drivers were.
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by slide »

although he said to Ferrari over the radio "I sorry , i'm really sorry guys "
why would he do that if he was blameless , or was he realising he may have just thrown a championship away
it was a siily aggressive move when he's so close to a 5th championship
so what if you are 2nd or 3rd into the first corner , at this point in the season points make prize's

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by mikeyg123 »

slide wrote:although he said to Ferrari over the radio "I sorry , i'm really sorry guys "
why would he do that if he was blameless , or was he realising he may have just thrown a championship away
it was a siily aggressive move when he's so close to a 5th championship
so what if you are 2nd or 3rd into the first corner , at this point in the season points make prize's
TBF at the time he says sorry he thinks he's retired because he has spun out and hit the wall. He would have no way of knowing he had a huge hole in the side pod.

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by slide »

wouldn't he have felt a large thump to the side

massa hits the nail on the head saying vettel should have only worried about keeping Hamilton behind , he had no need to race anybody else - even if he had finished 4th with lewis 5th would have been better than chaos and no points

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by mikeyg123 »

slide wrote:wouldn't he have felt a large thump to the side

massa hits the nail on the head saying vettel should have only worried about keeping Hamilton behind , he had no need to race anybody else - even if he had finished 4th with lewis 5th would have been better than chaos and no points
Sure. But how could he know that there was fluid leaking out of his car. As far as he's concerned he's just lost control of the car and hit the wall.

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Fiki »

slide wrote:massa hits the nail on the head saying vettel should have only worried about keeping Hamilton behind , he had no need to race anybody else - even if he had finished 4th with lewis 5th would have been better than chaos and no points
While that is true, the race was seen as one that Vettel had to win. And not without good reason.
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

ALESI wrote:http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nlu22

Singapore 2010, Alonso does exactly what Vettel did (race starts at 24:45)
Going all in on turn 1 in any type of racing is mightily unwise.
First of all, no race is won at turn 1 and the #1 Rule in racing is that in order to finish first, you must first finish.

Regardless of whom did it and when, it's still not good racing. To veer over on others simply because you don't want to lose a position is unnecessary. If you're not the fastest guy and the fastest guy happens to be behind you they'll pass you anyway, eventually. This all or nothing mentality in F1 has gotten out of control and it needs to be curbed.
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by slide »

for such a talented driver , vettel lets himself down and his championship hopes with these silly moments where he loses his temper
and I hope somebody at Ferrari told him a few home truths, which he needs to hear
when you consider the time spent preparing the car , the amount of people in the team, all there to get 2 cars setup and ready to go , all of whom were let down before the first corner, and advantage Hamilton - vettel will have to dig deep to drag this one back

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Rockie »

slide wrote:for such a talented driver , vettel lets himself down and his championship hopes with these silly moments where he loses his temper
and I hope somebody at Ferrari told him a few home truths, which he needs to hear
when you consider the time spent preparing the car , the amount of people in the team, all there to get 2 cars setup and ready to go , all of whom were let down before the first corner, and advantage Hamilton - vettel will have to dig deep to drag this one back
This is just silly talk, this narrative of Vettel losing his temper, a guy goes to cover the driver behind and it's regarded as losing his temper.

It's amazing really, you can dislike Vettel but using that dislike to judge every situation Vettel is in is so wrong.

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Caserole of Nonsense »

Teddy007 wrote:
ALESI wrote:http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2nlu22

Singapore 2010, Alonso does exactly what Vettel did (race starts at 24:45)
You're absolutely right. It's another reason Vettel didn't suffer a penalty.

The major difference is though - one resulted in an accident. It's a risk by every driver who pulls that move. You are trusting the other driver to move and that no one is the other side.

It's like when a driver over takes in the inside and outbreaks them. You are trusting the other driver to see you and leave enough space. You are also placing trust in both breaks/lock ups.

It's a risk, Seb was within his right to take and majority of leaders have done the same. Just because other drivers have done it though and avoided accidents - doesn't remove who's fault it is. If Alonso had caused a crash because the Red Bull didn't move - Alonso is to blame regardless. Do they deserve penalties? I don't think so. If Alonso/Vettel went on to win the race after causing a crash and the other driver gets a DNF - a penalty would have happened.

Although both drivers did the exact same thing - the result wasn't the same.
agree with this. i would say alonso was a tad over aggressive like vettel. also with it being a dry start and all the practise starts they do, its more then likely they will get a similar getaway (apart from webber!). alonso probably knew his start was good and there was no way another car could get alongside vettel in that time. this year vettel probably had the instict straight away that his start wasnt good and therefore went to defend aggressively. with the rain there can be a much bigger disparity between starts but obviously he didnt think kimis start would be so good. as you say you can risk a move like that and may get away with it, but if you cause an accident its your fault.

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by slide »

Rockie wrote:
slide wrote:for such a talented driver , vettel lets himself down and his championship hopes with these silly moments where he loses his temper
and I hope somebody at Ferrari told him a few home truths, which he needs to hear
when you consider the time spent preparing the car , the amount of people in the team, all there to get 2 cars setup and ready to go , all of whom were let down before the first corner, and advantage Hamilton - vettel will have to dig deep to drag this one back
This is just silly talk, this narrative of Vettel losing his temper, a guy goes to cover the driver behind and it's regarded as losing his temper.

It's amazing really, you can dislike Vettel but using that dislike to judge every situation Vettel is in is so wrong.
explain the famous safety car restart and his hand slipping-anger is one thing but temper is another

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

http://www.sport24.co.za/Motorsport/why ... t-20170924

I don't know how many will agree with this. I agree with some points, but not much.

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Herb Tarlik »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:http://www.sport24.co.za/Motorsport/why ... t-20170924

I don't know how many will agree with this. I agree with some points, but not much.
I dont agree with it either. I think Vettel is 100% at fault.

Still it was an interesting read.

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:http://www.sport24.co.za/Motorsport/why ... t-20170924

I don't know how many will agree with this. I agree with some points, but not much.
I found that to be total and utter bullcrap of the thickest knee deep kind.

This was the first sentence I read where I realized the author was completely misguided in his views.

"Was it perhaps Raikkonen who should have known not to drive that close to another driver on cold tyres?



I continued to read on, but nonsensical statements like that are bountiful throughout that short write up.

I mean, really? Cold tires going into turn 1 at the very start of the race?
When has there EVER been a race where drivers aren't all bunched up in ultra-tight quarters going into and through the first series of turns???
I appreciate you posting the article, but it was honestly a total waste of time. Nothing of value in that unless you're into baseless opinionated pieces being passed off as fact.
To say Verstappen made a move that was "not thought through, nor calculated." is about the most imaginative straw grasping statements I've read in a very long time.
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Siao7 »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote: Agreed.

This vantage point "seems" to trick some into "seeing" Max veering right, when in fact, if you look at Vettels' car, he's pointing significantly left.
The on-boards clearly show Max was going straight.
Max was going straight, but he had pointed his car towards Vettel on the start, away from his box. It is not difficult to see that in the videos; here, I've uploaded for you.

Image
All I have ot say to this is… Really?? LOL
Really, lol? You can see Max pointing towards Vettel and not being in a straight line like Kimi, right? ....Riiight? Do I have to point it to you?
LOL of course you'd miss the point of my post.

Look at the picture and tell my how many of the drivers have their cars pointed towards one another. In fact, there are 6 cars in the shot that are all pointing inward towards the center of the track, and 3 either going straight or veering outward.

The point is you're grasping at straws because it's a given that drivers pull out of their box and steer in the directions they see fit to best position themselves to go through turn 1, both unscathed and maintaining the best possible position exiting the turn. Vettel is turned equally towards Verstappen.

Just sayin'.
Lol all you like. Posting childish replies won't validate your opinion. A statement was made that Max was in a dead straight line from his box, I posted a picture that shows that he started pointing towards the inside. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing to do with another 6 drivers behind him, nothing mentioned that drivers don't turn in at the start. Keep posting though, you are amusing.

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:http://www.sport24.co.za/Motorsport/why ... t-20170924

I don't know how many will agree with this. I agree with some points, but not much.
I found that to be total and utter bullcrap of the thickest knee deep kind.

This was the first sentence I read where I realized the author was completely misguided in his views.

"Was it perhaps Raikkonen who should have known not to drive that close to another driver on cold tyres?



I continued to read on, but nonsensical statements like that are bountiful throughout that short write up.

I mean, really? Cold tires going into turn 1 at the very start of the race?
When has there EVER been a race where drivers aren't all bunched up in ultra-tight quarters going into and through the first series of turns???
I appreciate you posting the article, but it was honestly a total waste of time. Nothing of value in that unless you're into baseless opinionated pieces being passed off as fact.
To say Verstappen made a move that was "not thought through, nor calculated." is about the most imaginative straw grasping statements I've read in a very long time.
I basically only posted is because it was a very different view. What was part of the title of this thread? "Who to blame?" There was an option for anyone to vote fore Verstappen and this is just a page where someone with a rather strange opinion shared their views that I thought was worth posting. I think there are some interesting points, but most I think is rather unreasonable.

I voted racing incident. I don't think Vettel did anything that was that unreasonable. He heavily defended Verstappen which he didn't need to do but just won't have anticipated Kimi to be coming up the inside of Verstappen that quickly. As Vettel started it, he clearly was the most to blame, but I certainly can only see it being a racing incident. If Vettel had got away with it, might it have been any different? I'm not actually sure.

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Fiki »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:http://www.sport24.co.za/Motorsport/why ... t-20170924

I don't know how many will agree with this. I agree with some points, but not much.
I don't agree with all of what he writes, but he is right in saying Verstappen was the person who held the key to not having an accident. The weak point in simply blaming him is a bit of his making. He claimed he saw it coming and tried to back out of it. That may be true, but the fact that he came off the throttle too late suggests he didn't really see it coming.

If Verstappen's move to the left, after first trying to get near Vettel, was a reaction to seeing Räikkönen having a great start, then he really is to blame. If the move to the left was meant to keep him away from Vettel while unaware of the Räikkönen threat , then his statement afterwards is incorrect, though it more or less means he wasn't mostly to blame.

The comment about cold tyres seems a bit silly at first, but I believe that with spray getting onto his visor, Räikkönen would have been very conscious about the white line to the left and the yellow paint beyond it. Not to mention possible standing water being held by the white paint.

It is possible that Vettel cleared Verstappen because Max lifted just prior to the accident, but I agree that it was Verstappen who should have backed off. During the race I withheld my judgement until I saw the replays a number of times, but I felt Max was to blame then, and still do now. I don't know what Max told the stewards, but if he said to them that he saw it coming and still kept his foot in, then I find it hard to agree with a verdict of racing incident.
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

But that's just it, these guys are racing one another and they will always do so in ultra-tight quarters at the beginning of races, and as such, "IF" they cannot see anything in their mirrors, they need to put a stop to drivers veering over so aggressively on those behind if the purpose is solely to keep from losing position, because if they can't see anything in their mirrors, they could very well be moving over right into someone.

As for Raikkonen's position in this scenario, he couldn't have placed himself any better but unfortunately his teammates over aggression saw to it that his exquisite launch was thwarted.

In regards to Verstappen, IDK what else anyone expected him to do in that scenario. He's driving a car that is not the fastest yet he started on the front row and lifting abruptly while everyone else behind him is accelerating would have possibly seen others pass him. He tried to give Raikkonen room the moment he realized he shot past but in veering right he left less room between himself and Vettel and the squeeze move was on him so harshly he re-corrected to the left and boom!
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Ryu28 »

Vettel and Ferrari are battling for the world drivers and constructors championships. Max is not, so he has no right interfering with battles which do not concern him. He should know his place and should have backed off. Sadly his antics handed Lewis an undeserved victory and probably a fourth title too.

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Clarky »

Ryu28 wrote:Vettel and Ferrari are battling for the world drivers and constructors championships. Max is not, so he has no right interfering with battles which do not concern him. He should know his place and should have backed off. Sadly his antics handed Lewis an undeserved victory and probably a fourth title too.
:lol:

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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by mcdo »

Ryu28 wrote:Vettel and Ferrari are battling for the world drivers and constructors championships. Max is not, so he has no right interfering with battles which do not concern him. He should know his place and should have backed off. Sadly his antics handed Lewis an undeserved victory and probably a fourth title too.
Max only had one goal in Singapore - to win the race. Vettel should have taken more care than to go dicing with someone who literally has nothing to lose

Not sure how Lewis' victory was undeserved. My belief is that with or without the start crash he would have been hassling whoever was leading for the race win
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Re: Vettel / Verstappen / Raikkonen Clash! Who to blame?

Post by Zoue »

mcdo wrote:
Ryu28 wrote:Vettel and Ferrari are battling for the world drivers and constructors championships. Max is not, so he has no right interfering with battles which do not concern him. He should know his place and should have backed off. Sadly his antics handed Lewis an undeserved victory and probably a fourth title too.
Max only had one goal in Singapore - to win the race. Vettel should have taken more care than to go dicing with someone who literally has nothing to lose

Not sure how Lewis' victory was undeserved. My belief is that with or without the start crash he would have been hassling whoever was leading for the race win
To be fair Vettel pretty much had to win that one, too, so he had everything to play for. It was his best opportunity to put daylight between him and Hamilton and he couldn't afford to drop any points if he could help it.

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