Have Liberty seen the light?

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moby
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Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by moby »

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/09/free-to-air-f1-tv-are-there-any-lessons-for-sky-and-the-uk-in-new-french-tv-move/

What do you think? Is it a reversal of Bernies thinking, or just to get the interest for the French GP?

j man
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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by j man »

That is very encouraging. Liberty's stated aim is to build their investment by increasing F1's fanbase and widening its appeal, although they have appear to have been largely focused on race-day crowds thus far. This is the total antithesis of Bernie and CVC's horrendous short-term approach of making F1 an exclusive club for small numbers of wealthy people to throw their money around (Rolex as an official sponsor? How many F1 fans are buying those???).

I think a return to free-to-air TV fits with what Liberty are trying to achieve. A shame that here in the UK we are tied into Bernie's Sky contract.

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mmi16
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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by mmi16 »

Pay TV is the fastest way to maximize short term income and lose audience share that that doesn't want pay TV.

Feature Liberty saw the light, that is why the bought out the little troll.
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moby
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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by moby »

During the press conference with the Honda change over, this came up

Q: (Graham Harris – Motorsport Monday) A question for Moriyama-san. Now that Honda has committed to come back with Toro Rosso and stay in Formula One for the next three years, what do you think Formula One needs to do to attract more Japanese automakers to come into Formula One as manufacturers?

MY: One important thing at the moment is that in Japan at the moment Formula One is not broadcast on free-to-air TV. So we believe that the most important factor is that at the moment the fans can only watch through satellite/pay TV, so that is maybe the biggest issue to increase the number. Obviously, us as Honda, it would improve our promotional ways of improving our Honda F1.

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Blinky McSquinty
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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

This is the most damning part of that article:

In France F1 has been behind a paywall since 2013 and audiences have fallen from around 4 to 5 million on TF1 to 750,000 on Canal Plus
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/09/free-to-air-f1-tv-are-there-any-lessons-for-sky-and-the-uk-in-new-french-tv-move/

If any sport does not have an easy portal for prospective fans to watch races, the sport eventually dies.

Personally, I am very happy Liberty bought the rights to Formula One and sacked Bernie. He did develop the sport, but recently all he has done is rape the fields of any crop. And that is not good for the future of the sport. Liberty seriously want to grow the sport into a larger and wider audience.

Personally, I will never pay to watch a race on TV.
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Jezza13
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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by Jezza13 »

This is a quote from a Canadian TV thread in June last year and it makes Bernie's actions almost criminal when it comes to increasing the marketability and popularity of the sport.

Jezza13 wrote:http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/04/20/f1-has-lost-one-third-of-its-tv-audience-since-2008/

200 million, or 33.3 % of television viewers, lost globally since 2008.


One of the biggest steps forward Liberty could make in bringing the sport back to the masses is to get it back on FTA TV and it's fantastic that it seems that's what they're trying to do.
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Zoue
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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by Zoue »

Blinky McSquinty wrote:This is the most damning part of that article:

In France F1 has been behind a paywall since 2013 and audiences have fallen from around 4 to 5 million on TF1 to 750,000 on Canal Plus
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/09/free-to-air-f1-tv-are-there-any-lessons-for-sky-and-the-uk-in-new-french-tv-move/

If any sport does not have an easy portal for prospective fans to watch races, the sport eventually dies.

Personally, I am very happy Liberty bought the rights to Formula One and sacked Bernie. He did develop the sport, but recently all he has done is rape the fields of any crop. And that is not good for the future of the sport. Liberty seriously want to grow the sport into a larger and wider audience.

Personally, I will never pay to watch a race on TV.

There's not much choice for many people, though. Where I live, I can either pay or never watch something I love. I used to get it included as part of my SKY package, so I technically got it for free as I never actually paid separately for it, but sadly that's no longer possible.

I don't so much object to paying for it as I do the model that gives consumers zero choice, but that's as much the fault of digital rights law as it is of F1. It's ridiculous, in this day and age, that you can't watch a stream from one country if you live in another, especially if you live in something like the European Union where trade is supposed to be unrestricted. Digital rights hasn't caught up with digital reality. I can't even watch a clip of an interview that no-one else may actually have, just because I live in the wrong post code. It's insane. If trade was truly free, I could then choose to watch SKY, or RTL (ugh), or Ziggo etc etc, depending on whether I felt their offering was worthwhile. Now, I don't have that choice, so paying feels more akin to extortion. I refuse to pay for my local service, because it's only available if I change my entire TV and internet supply, which I object to being forced to do. At least in the UK SKY offered NowTV, which allowed you to pay for individual races with no contract and I don't think that kind of model is particularly oppressive. If Formula One would offer a non-subscription internet stream at a reasonable rate I suspect they may add quite a fair number of viewers worldwide. People's viewing habits have moved on from static TV subscriptions. Many don't even own a TV any more (my kids do the bulk of their watching through their laptops).

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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Blinky McSquinty wrote:This is the most damning part of that article:

In France F1 has been behind a paywall since 2013 and audiences have fallen from around 4 to 5 million on TF1 to 750,000 on Canal Plus
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/09/free-to-air-f1-tv-are-there-any-lessons-for-sky-and-the-uk-in-new-french-tv-move/

If any sport does not have an easy portal for prospective fans to watch races, the sport eventually dies.


Personally, I am very happy Liberty bought the rights to Formula One and sacked Bernie. He did develop the sport, but recently all he has done is rape the fields of any crop. And that is not good for the future of the sport. Liberty seriously want to grow the sport into a larger and wider audience.

Personally, I will never pay to watch a race on TV.


And yet, in Britain at least, all the biggest sports except perhaps Tennis are largely behind a paywall and many have grown massively whilst behind it. Darts and premier league football are particular success stories. I would rather not have to pay to watch F1 but I have never understood why it should be viewed as a special case?

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moby
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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by moby »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:This is the most damning part of that article:

In France F1 has been behind a paywall since 2013 and audiences have fallen from around 4 to 5 million on TF1 to 750,000 on Canal Plus
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/09/free-to-air-f1-tv-are-there-any-lessons-for-sky-and-the-uk-in-new-french-tv-move/

If any sport does not have an easy portal for prospective fans to watch races, the sport eventually dies.


Personally, I am very happy Liberty bought the rights to Formula One and sacked Bernie. He did develop the sport, but recently all he has done is rape the fields of any crop. And that is not good for the future of the sport. Liberty seriously want to grow the sport into a larger and wider audience.

Personally, I will never pay to watch a race on TV.


And yet, in Britain at least, all the biggest sports except perhaps Tennis are largely behind a paywall and many have grown massively whilst behind it. Darts and premier league football are particular success stories. I would rather not have to pay to watch F1 but I have never understood why it should be viewed as a special case?


I do not think it should be a special case. sponsors use sport for people to see their name. If only a particular type of people are interested enough in that sport to pay, they have a very small sector of the market.

I understand that in the day there were companies who only wanted their adverts to reach the segment with lots of cash to splash about, but they have to have an interest to be there in the first place.

I wonder what the average age of an F1 audience is now compared to 5 years ago? If you do not like something you do not pay, if you have not tried it, ... etc.

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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by Zoue »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:This is the most damning part of that article:

In France F1 has been behind a paywall since 2013 and audiences have fallen from around 4 to 5 million on TF1 to 750,000 on Canal Plus
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/09/free-to-air-f1-tv-are-there-any-lessons-for-sky-and-the-uk-in-new-french-tv-move/

If any sport does not have an easy portal for prospective fans to watch races, the sport eventually dies.


Personally, I am very happy Liberty bought the rights to Formula One and sacked Bernie. He did develop the sport, but recently all he has done is rape the fields of any crop. And that is not good for the future of the sport. Liberty seriously want to grow the sport into a larger and wider audience.

Personally, I will never pay to watch a race on TV.


And yet, in Britain at least, all the biggest sports except perhaps Tennis are largely behind a paywall and many have grown massively whilst behind it. Darts and premier league football are particular success stories. I would rather not have to pay to watch F1 but I have never understood why it should be viewed as a special case?

I largely don't, either, but other sports are more accessible, as a rule. Darts and football both have a large following who actually play the game for fun, so watching is just a natural extension of existing hobbies. Motor sports are out of the reach of most, so watching is the hobby, which means the drive (no pun intended) to watch it is probably less prevalent IMO.

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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by Herb Tarlik »

Blinky McSquinty wrote:This is the most damning part of that article:

In France F1 has been behind a paywall since 2013 and audiences have fallen from around 4 to 5 million on TF1 to 750,000 on Canal Plus
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/09/free-to-air-f1-tv-are-there-any-lessons-for-sky-and-the-uk-in-new-french-tv-move/

If any sport does not have an easy portal for prospective fans to watch races, the sport eventually dies.

Personally, I am very happy Liberty bought the rights to Formula One and sacked Bernie. He did develop the sport, but recently all he has done is rape the fields of any crop. And that is not good for the future of the sport. Liberty seriously want to grow the sport into a larger and wider audience.

Personally, I will never pay to watch a race on TV.


When we are talking about pay tv, are we speaking of just cable tv, or a specific channel that one has to purchase in addition to a standard cable package?

It's the latter situation that I think hurts the most. Here in the states, I dont know a single person who does not have cable tv, so going that that pay tv route is not very limiting. I can see that if you had to buy a particular channel, that would add even more cost.

Free, over the air TV, has the most commercials and the least amount of specialists who cover motor racing. A guy calling an F1 race might be calling baseball on another day. On cable they tend to specialize more and thus have more knowledge.

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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by moby »

Herb Tarlik wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:This is the most damning part of that article:

In France F1 has been behind a paywall since 2013 and audiences have fallen from around 4 to 5 million on TF1 to 750,000 on Canal Plus
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/09/free-to-air-f1-tv-are-there-any-lessons-for-sky-and-the-uk-in-new-french-tv-move/

If any sport does not have an easy portal for prospective fans to watch races, the sport eventually dies.

Personally, I am very happy Liberty bought the rights to Formula One and sacked Bernie. He did develop the sport, but recently all he has done is rape the fields of any crop. And that is not good for the future of the sport. Liberty seriously want to grow the sport into a larger and wider audience.

Personally, I will never pay to watch a race on TV.


When we are talking about pay tv, are we speaking of just cable tv, or a specific channel that one has to purchase in addition to a standard cable package?

It's the latter situation that I think hurts the most. Here in the states, I dont know a single person who does not have cable tv, so going that that pay tv route is not very limiting. I can see that if you had to buy a particular channel, that would add even more cost.

Free, over the air TV, has the most commercials and the least amount of specialists who cover motor racing. A guy calling an F1 race might be calling baseball on another day. On cable they tend to specialize more and thus have more knowledge.


It is just the one channel, so on options, no competition.

Wouldn't that be a monopoly? (Why is there only one monopolies commission)

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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by Herb Tarlik »

moby wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:This is the most damning part of that article:

In France F1 has been behind a paywall since 2013 and audiences have fallen from around 4 to 5 million on TF1 to 750,000 on Canal Plus
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/09/free-to-air-f1-tv-are-there-any-lessons-for-sky-and-the-uk-in-new-french-tv-move/

If any sport does not have an easy portal for prospective fans to watch races, the sport eventually dies.

Personally, I am very happy Liberty bought the rights to Formula One and sacked Bernie. He did develop the sport, but recently all he has done is rape the fields of any crop. And that is not good for the future of the sport. Liberty seriously want to grow the sport into a larger and wider audience.

Personally, I will never pay to watch a race on TV.


When we are talking about pay tv, are we speaking of just cable tv, or a specific channel that one has to purchase in addition to a standard cable package?

It's the latter situation that I think hurts the most. Here in the states, I dont know a single person who does not have cable tv, so going that that pay tv route is not very limiting. I can see that if you had to buy a particular channel, that would add even more cost.

Free, over the air TV, has the most commercials and the least amount of specialists who cover motor racing. A guy calling an F1 race might be calling baseball on another day. On cable they tend to specialize more and thus have more knowledge.


It is just the one channel, so on options, no competition.

Wouldn't that be a monopoly? (Why is there only one monopolies commission)


One channel that you have to pay extra for or is it included as a whole package?

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moby
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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by moby »

Herb Tarlik wrote:
moby wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:This is the most damning part of that article:

In France F1 has been behind a paywall since 2013 and audiences have fallen from around 4 to 5 million on TF1 to 750,000 on Canal Plus
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/09/free-to-air-f1-tv-are-there-any-lessons-for-sky-and-the-uk-in-new-french-tv-move/

If any sport does not have an easy portal for prospective fans to watch races, the sport eventually dies.

Personally, I am very happy Liberty bought the rights to Formula One and sacked Bernie. He did develop the sport, but recently all he has done is rape the fields of any crop. And that is not good for the future of the sport. Liberty seriously want to grow the sport into a larger and wider audience.

Personally, I will never pay to watch a race on TV.


When we are talking about pay tv, are we speaking of just cable tv, or a specific channel that one has to purchase in addition to a standard cable package?

It's the latter situation that I think hurts the most. Here in the states, I dont know a single person who does not have cable tv, so going that that pay tv route is not very limiting. I can see that if you had to buy a particular channel, that would add even more cost.

Free, over the air TV, has the most commercials and the least amount of specialists who cover motor racing. A guy calling an F1 race might be calling baseball on another day. On cable they tend to specialize more and thus have more knowledge.


It is just the one channel, so on options, no competition.

Wouldn't that be a monopoly? (Why is there only one monopolies commission)


One channel that you have to pay extra for or is it included as a whole package?


When I say both, I mean you have to have a 'base' set of channels before you can have the F1.

It was included with the package at one time, I had it then even though I never watched the others.

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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by Herb Tarlik »

moby wrote:

When I say both, I mean you have to have a 'base' set of channels before you can have the F1.

It was included with the package at one time, I had it then even though I never watched the others.


Got it. Yeah, that's the worst case scenario. Usually with a base package here in the US you can get Formula One. That's more reasonable.

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minchy
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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by minchy »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:This is the most damning part of that article:

In France F1 has been behind a paywall since 2013 and audiences have fallen from around 4 to 5 million on TF1 to 750,000 on Canal Plus
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/09/free-to-air-f1-tv-are-there-any-lessons-for-sky-and-the-uk-in-new-french-tv-move/

If any sport does not have an easy portal for prospective fans to watch races, the sport eventually dies.


Personally, I am very happy Liberty bought the rights to Formula One and sacked Bernie. He did develop the sport, but recently all he has done is rape the fields of any crop. And that is not good for the future of the sport. Liberty seriously want to grow the sport into a larger and wider audience.

Personally, I will never pay to watch a race on TV.


And yet, in Britain at least, all the biggest sports except perhaps Tennis are largely behind a paywall and many have grown massively whilst behind it. Darts and premier league football are particular success stories. I would rather not have to pay to watch F1 but I have never understood why it should be viewed as a special case?

The main issue with comparing F1 in the UK to sports like football is that football is watched massively by people in bars so gets more viewership than f1 from an advertisers point of view straight away. Darts is a bit different simply because it is such a cheap sport to run compared to football and especially f1.
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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

Zoue wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:This is the most damning part of that article:

In France F1 has been behind a paywall since 2013 and audiences have fallen from around 4 to 5 million on TF1 to 750,000 on Canal Plus
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/09/free-to-air-f1-tv-are-there-any-lessons-for-sky-and-the-uk-in-new-french-tv-move/

If any sport does not have an easy portal for prospective fans to watch races, the sport eventually dies.

Personally, I am very happy Liberty bought the rights to Formula One and sacked Bernie. He did develop the sport, but recently all he has done is rape the fields of any crop. And that is not good for the future of the sport. Liberty seriously want to grow the sport into a larger and wider audience.

Personally, I will never pay to watch a race on TV.

There's not much choice for many people, though. Where I live, I can either pay or never watch something I love. I used to get it included as part of my SKY package, so I technically got it for free as I never actually paid separately for it, but sadly that's no longer possible.

I don't so much object to paying for it as I do the model that gives consumers zero choice, but that's as much the fault of digital rights law as it is of F1. It's ridiculous, in this day and age, that you can't watch a stream from one country if you live in another, especially if you live in something like the European Union where trade is supposed to be unrestricted. Digital rights hasn't caught up with digital reality. I can't even watch a clip of an interview that no-one else may actually have, just because I live in the wrong post code. It's insane. If trade was truly free, I could then choose to watch SKY, or RTL (ugh), or Ziggo etc etc, depending on whether I felt their offering was worthwhile. Now, I don't have that choice, so paying feels more akin to extortion. I refuse to pay for my local service, because it's only available if I change my entire TV and internet supply, which I object to being forced to do. At least in the UK SKY offered NowTV, which allowed you to pay for individual races with no contract and I don't think that kind of model is particularly oppressive. If Formula One would offer a non-subscription internet stream at a reasonable rate I suspect they may add quite a fair number of viewers worldwide. People's viewing habits have moved on from static TV subscriptions. Many don't even own a TV any more (my kids do the bulk of their watching through their laptops).


Zoue, I really do sympathize with your predicament. Your situations is very different than mine, and I do understand that you have been painted into a corner by the actions of others. All I can do is hope that soon Liberty opens things up so you have the option on what payment method is available. IMO a two-tier system makes sense, where free to air just covers the race while pay TV covers everything.
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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by Biffa »

It seems pretty fundamental in my view that if you want to attract more viewers and fans then you need MORE/EASIER ways to watch F1 not less!

The alleged viewer drop off is absolutely replicated around my circle of friends and acquaintances, in the space of 5 or 6 years we’ve gone from a strong group of around 10 long-term fans who would regularly get together to watch races to only two!

I hope Liberty get it right - they seem pretty switched on!

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moby
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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by moby »

What Bernie and co did with it reminds me of what our local council did with the town centre.
There was far too much choice of parking for them, and it was too easy to park, walk across the footbridge and through an arcade and be right in the middle of a thriving town.

They closed the close in carparks, took some fore their own offices and built 'social housing' and office space whit some, and the ones not so close, they increased the parking charge. That will keep the traffic down.

Now they are realising that without the number of cars, yes, you guessed it, people are not coming to town and half the shops are closing, so the other half have nothing to cone for.

Seemed like a good idea to SOMEONE at the time even though everyone told them you need lots of people to make things work

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Biffa
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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by Biffa »

moby wrote:What Bernie and co did with it reminds me of what our local council did with the town centre.
There was far too much choice of parking for them, and it was too easy to park, walk across the footbridge and through an arcade and be right in the middle of a thriving town.

They closed the close in carparks, took some fore their own offices and built 'social housing' and office space whit some, and the ones not so close, they increased the parking charge. That will keep the traffic down.

Now they are realising that without the number of cars, yes, you guessed it, people are not coming to town and half the shops are closing, so the other half have nothing to cone for.

Seemed like a good idea to SOMEONE at the time even though everyone told them you need lots of people to make things work


Yep, if you attract lots of customers then why on earth would you change things to attract less customers? The only plausible answer is you want to attract a 'different' type, or more 'elite' customer? Clearly not happening in terms of F1 if this forum is anything to go by ;-)

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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by LBET »

moby wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
moby wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:This is the most damning part of that article:

In France F1 has been behind a paywall since 2013 and audiences have fallen from around 4 to 5 million on TF1 to 750,000 on Canal Plus
https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/09/free-to-air-f1-tv-are-there-any-lessons-for-sky-and-the-uk-in-new-french-tv-move/

If any sport does not have an easy portal for prospective fans to watch races, the sport eventually dies.

Personally, I am very happy Liberty bought the rights to Formula One and sacked Bernie. He did develop the sport, but recently all he has done is rape the fields of any crop. And that is not good for the future of the sport. Liberty seriously want to grow the sport into a larger and wider audience.

Personally, I will never pay to watch a race on TV.


When we are talking about pay tv, are we speaking of just cable tv, or a specific channel that one has to purchase in addition to a standard cable package?

It's the latter situation that I think hurts the most. Here in the states, I dont know a single person who does not have cable tv, so going that that pay tv route is not very limiting. I can see that if you had to buy a particular channel, that would add even more cost.

Free, over the air TV, has the most commercials and the least amount of specialists who cover motor racing. A guy calling an F1 race might be calling baseball on another day. On cable they tend to specialize more and thus have more knowledge.


It is just the one channel, so on options, no competition.

Wouldn't that be a monopoly? (Why is there only one monopolies commission)


One channel that you have to pay extra for or is it included as a whole package?


When I say both, I mean you have to have a 'base' set of channels before you can have the F1.

It was included with the package at one time, I had it then even though I never watched the others.

That's the problem here in Canada. A two tier system where F1 content is viewed mostly on the second tier. In Canada the premium tier is called TSN2.

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Re: Have Liberty seen the light?

Post by jasonthebadger »

It's good to see F1's returning to free TV. In Oz if you want to watch F1's live and in full ( Some races are on Free TV but not many ), You need Foxtel ( Pay TV ).
The absolute cheapest package is $50 a month and for someone like me, I rarely watch TV except for sport so $50 a month is a bit rich, Although it does give me access to every match of Football ( AFL ) live and also the V8 Supercars ( Which apart from a few races are behind Pay TV now too ).

I'd be much happier to pay Liberty directly each month and stream every race, If it were $20 a month, I'd be happy with that.
Any and all opinions are my own, they do not reflect the opinions of the FIA, FOM, Teams, Drivers, PlanetF1, Phase of the Moon, Rotation of the Earth or Aliens.

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