planetf1.com

Biffa wrote:F1 was more exciting when Max and Bernie were at the helm, there were always plenty of controversial things to discuss between races!

F1 MERCENARY wrote:The Legend of Senna being the greatest F1 driver of all time is only so for the same reasons James Dean, Biggie Smalls, 2Pac and other famous people are so highly regarded, Fully agreed, not only because, but it played a big role

The top 4 drivers in F1 are fairly equal, including Alonso but if all were in the same car Hamilton would come out on top more often than not.

Kimi is still a top talent

Renault should replace Palmer with Kubica effective immediately

Hulkenberg is a bit overrated

Kvyat is the best driver in Toro Rosso & Red Bull

Daniel Ricciardo IS NOT a late braking God :LOL:

Claire Williams is a Milf. (I have a suspicion that some will agree)

Toto Wolff & Nicky Lauda have brought NOTHING to Mercedes.

Jenson Button was never a Tire Whisperer

Sergio Perez is a top talent

Michael Schumacher is currently the greatest F1 driver of all time. (that can always be in jeopardy - Vettel and Hamilton may rewrite the books on that one)

Sebastian Loeb could still mop the floor with many top F1 Talents He already did in his tests, he was faster than a lot of the drivers at the time

Vandoorne was overrated from day 1, has to do a great deal better for me to think otherwise

F1 should bare ZERO relevance to Road cars

moby wrote:

mcdo wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

KingVoid wrote:What are some opinions you have about F1 that the majority of this forum likely doesn't agree with?

IMO, Max Verstappen is already the best driver on the grid. I reckon he would beat both Hamilton and Vettel in the same car.

Wow! Great example lol.

I am of the opinion that there is a massive chasm in ability/talent between modern F1 drivers by comparison to drivers from the golden age (prior to the 70s-80s). Been following the sport since the 80s and I think today's drivers are on a different planet from the likes of Fangio and Moss but some of the real old-timers will tear you a new one for saying that lol.

That's true for the vast majority of sports. It's all about context and what was known/possible at the time

I also wonder ho many of these'wonderful' outside moves etc would have taken place if the driver thought there was more than a o.oo1% chance of them being hurt? 'Ah I have never seen a car passed there before' probably beans previous drivers thought it too risky rather than they could not do it

For instance, the Force India cars this week. A driver would never have squeezed another like that if it was possible or probable both would be off to the funeral home.

Lt. Drebin wrote:Alonso is a good driver but he is overrated.
Hamilton's life is run by his strong complexes.
Verstappen is not the next superstar.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Speed limit in pit area is an unnecessary thing and a total joke.
With current technology and transport, and all the money involved, there should be 25 races a year.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Jochen Mass is 100% guilty for the death of Gilles Villeneuve.
Ecclestone sacrificed Brabham's (Lauda) 1978 WDC title by derailing completely legal fan car for personal gain with FIA, which eventually paid off to him.
Jabouille was one of the best drivers of his era, prior to his 1980 crash.
Nelson Piquet 1981 title was achieved with illegal car.

Siao7 wrote: Sebastian Loeb could still mop the floor with many top F1 Talents He already did in his tests, he was faster than a lot of the drivers at the time

mds wrote:

Siao7 wrote: Sebastian Loeb could still mop the floor with many top F1 Talents He already did in his tests, he was faster than a lot of the drivers at the time

Seriously though, Loeb couldn't mop the floor with a mediocre WTCC field...

oz_karter wrote:

KingVoid wrote: Verstappen has battered qualifying specialist Ricciardo this season. The score is 8-4 right now and Max just beat Dan by half a second at Spa.

I think the only part of this that might have reason to be unpopular is calling Ricciardo a "qualifying specialist".

The facts:

Dan has only a single pole position
Dan usually performs better in races than in qualifying.

I think the perception comes from 2014 when Dan outqualified Vettel on a regular basis. He's a good qualifier, but his race craft and consistency outshines it IMO.

Verstappen on the other hand, I think has great speed over a lap, but his race craft and consistency suffer.

Siao7 wrote:

mds wrote:

Siao7 wrote: Sebastian Loeb could still mop the floor with many top F1 Talents He already did in his tests, he was faster than a lot of the drivers at the time

Seriously though, Loeb couldn't mop the floor with a mediocre WTCC field...

Ok, maybe not mop the floor, which wasn't my wording anyway. But it feels like he'd probably be a lot better than a lot of drivers from the current F1 field

Siao7 wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:Alonso is a good driver but he is overrated.
Hamilton's life is run by his strong complexes.
Verstappen is not the next superstar.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Speed limit in pit area is an unnecessary thing and a total joke.
With current technology and transport, and all the money involved, there should be 25 races a year.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Jochen Mass is 100% guilty for the death of Gilles Villeneuve.
Ecclestone sacrificed Brabham's (Lauda) 1978 WDC title by derailing completely legal fan car for personal gain with FIA, which eventually paid off to him.
Jabouille was one of the best drivers of his era, prior to his 1980 crash.
Nelson Piquet 1981 title was achieved with illegal car.

I thought Mass moved to the right to get out of the racing line, but Jaques chose that side to overtake. It was both drivers' fault if nothing else

mds wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

mds wrote:

Siao7 wrote: Sebastian Loeb could still mop the floor with many top F1 Talents He already did in his tests, he was faster than a lot of the drivers at the time

Seriously though, Loeb couldn't mop the floor with a mediocre WTCC field...

Ok, maybe not mop the floor, which wasn't my wording anyway. But it feels like he'd probably be a lot better than a lot of drivers from the current F1 field

I just don't see it. If you can't dominate the WTCC field, little chance you're up among the best or even mid field in F1. Maybe he could be better than 2 or 3, and that would be it.

I mean come on, he lost out twice in a row to a 45/46-year-old...
He's a fantastic rally driver but that doesn't necessarily translate to circuit racing, and that showed. He was so much worse than his teammates when it came to close racing and overtaking.

Lt. Drebin wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:Alonso is a good driver but he is overrated.
Hamilton's life is run by his strong complexes.
Verstappen is not the next superstar.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Speed limit in pit area is an unnecessary thing and a total joke.
With current technology and transport, and all the money involved, there should be 25 races a year.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Jochen Mass is 100% guilty for the death of Gilles Villeneuve.
Ecclestone sacrificed Brabham's (Lauda) 1978 WDC title by derailing completely legal fan car for personal gain with FIA, which eventually paid off to him.
Jabouille was one of the best drivers of his era, prior to his 1980 crash.
Nelson Piquet 1981 title was achieved with illegal car.

I thought Mass moved to the right to get out of the racing line, but Jaques chose that side to overtake. It was both drivers' fault if nothing else

That's what Mass said about it. But if you look at the badly filmed footage, you will see that after the Butte band Mass already left the right side free, moving to the left, and while Villeneuve was slready closely approaching he started moving to the middle, not even completely to the right. He was on the middle of the track, and not even on the right in the moment of impact. Gilles already choose the only free side, which was right, going left was never an option, since Mass was there. Mass got his @ss saved by the amateurish footage. Gilles did make any mistake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZzfZBXUmw8

funkymonkey wrote:- Perez is middle of the road driver...

tootsie323 wrote:

funkymonkey wrote:- Perez is middle of the road driver...

Tell that to Ocon.

tootsie323 wrote:

funkymonkey wrote:- Perez is middle of the road driver...

Tell that to Ocon.

Siao7 wrote: True, but he lost to Yvan Muller and Lopez, the two most successful drivers of the WDCC. It's like saying that he'd be crap next to Schumacher and Alonso in F1. Well, doh, of course!

In fairness, he won 6 races and in his two years there he finished 3rd twice. Hardly bad for coming from a different racing background to wheel to wheel racing

Siao7 wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:Alonso is a good driver but he is overrated.
Hamilton's life is run by his strong complexes.
Verstappen is not the next superstar.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Speed limit in pit area is an unnecessary thing and a total joke.
With current technology and transport, and all the money involved, there should be 25 races a year.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Jochen Mass is 100% guilty for the death of Gilles Villeneuve.
Ecclestone sacrificed Brabham's (Lauda) 1978 WDC title by derailing completely legal fan car for personal gain with FIA, which eventually paid off to him.
Jabouille was one of the best drivers of his era, prior to his 1980 crash.
Nelson Piquet 1981 title was achieved with illegal car.

I thought Mass moved to the right to get out of the racing line, but Jaques chose that side to overtake. It was both drivers' fault if nothing else

That's what Mass said about it. But if you look at the badly filmed footage, you will see that after the Butte band Mass already left the right side free, moving to the left, and while Villeneuve was slready closely approaching he started moving to the middle, not even completely to the right. He was on the middle of the track, and not even on the right in the moment of impact. Gilles already choose the only free side, which was right, going left was never an option, since Mass was there. Mass got his @ss saved by the amateurish footage. Gilles did make any mistake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZzfZBXUmw8

I agree, Mass was moving on the racing line

Lt. Drebin wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:Alonso is a good driver but he is overrated.
Hamilton's life is run by his strong complexes.
Verstappen is not the next superstar.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Speed limit in pit area is an unnecessary thing and a total joke.
With current technology and transport, and all the money involved, there should be 25 races a year.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Jochen Mass is 100% guilty for the death of Gilles Villeneuve.
Ecclestone sacrificed Brabham's (Lauda) 1978 WDC title by derailing completely legal fan car for personal gain with FIA, which eventually paid off to him.
Jabouille was one of the best drivers of his era, prior to his 1980 crash.
Nelson Piquet 1981 title was achieved with illegal car.

I thought Mass moved to the right to get out of the racing line, but Jaques chose that side to overtake. It was both drivers' fault if nothing else

That's what Mass said about it. But if you look at the badly filmed footage, you will see that after the Butte band Mass already left the right side free, moving to the left, and while Villeneuve was already closely approaching he started moving to the middle, not even completely to the right. He was on the middle of the track, and not even on the right in the moment of impact. Gilles already choose the only free side, which was right, going left was never an option, since Mass was there. Mass got his @ss saved by the amateurish footage. Gilles did not make any mistake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZzfZBXUmw8

ALESI wrote:

cmberry20 wrote:Massa is by far the most overrated driver on the grid. He was only retained by Ferrari because of the accident and they didnt want the press onslaught if they dropped him.

The most overrated driver on the grid now is Max. Yes he's good, yes he's going to be a big star but see the top of this thread for the biggest piece of hype I've ever read.

mikeyg123 wrote:

oz_karter wrote:

KingVoid wrote: Verstappen has battered qualifying specialist Ricciardo this season. The score is 8-4 right now and Max just beat Dan by half a second at Spa.

I think the only part of this that might have reason to be unpopular is calling Ricciardo a "qualifying specialist".

The facts:

Dan has only a single pole position
Dan usually performs better in races than in qualifying.

I think the perception comes from 2014 when Dan outqualified Vettel on a regular basis. He's a good qualifier, but his race craft and consistency outshines it IMO.

Verstappen on the other hand, I think has great speed over a lap, but his race craft and consistency suffer.

Ricciardo used to destroy Vergne in quali and then very often fall behind him in races.

Fiki wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:

Siao7 wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:Alonso is a good driver but he is overrated.
Hamilton's life is run by his strong complexes.
Verstappen is not the next superstar.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Speed limit in pit area is an unnecessary thing and a total joke.
With current technology and transport, and all the money involved, there should be 25 races a year.
Vettel is the funniest driver on the grid.
Jochen Mass is 100% guilty for the death of Gilles Villeneuve.
Ecclestone sacrificed Brabham's (Lauda) 1978 WDC title by derailing completely legal fan car for personal gain with FIA, which eventually paid off to him.
Jabouille was one of the best drivers of his era, prior to his 1980 crash.
Nelson Piquet 1981 title was achieved with illegal car.

I thought Mass moved to the right to get out of the racing line, but Jaques chose that side to overtake. It was both drivers' fault if nothing else

That's what Mass said about it. But if you look at the badly filmed footage, you will see that after the Butte band Mass already left the right side free, moving to the left, and while Villeneuve was already closely approaching he started moving to the middle, not even completely to the right. He was on the middle of the track, and not even on the right in the moment of impact. Gilles already choose the only free side, which was right, going left was never an option, since Mass was there. Mass got his @ss saved by the amateurish footage. Gilles did not make any mistake.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZzfZBXUmw8

If I recall correctly, the qualifying session was only used as a kind of practice session for the cameramen, for the following day's race. The cameraman in question may not have been shooting at all, though his camera was still on. And in that case, the cameraman did a good job reacting as he did.
F1 wasn't exactly popular either, and even now only the French-speaking part of Belgium's national broadcaster offers us all the races live.

I'm not convinced Mass was the only one who made a mistake in this fatal accident.

ALESI wrote:

ALESI wrote:

cmberry20 wrote:Massa is by far the most overrated driver on the grid. He was only retained by Ferrari because of the accident and they didnt want the press onslaught if they dropped him.

The most overrated driver on the grid now is Max. Yes he's good, yes he's going to be a big star but see the top of this thread for the biggest piece of hype I've ever read.

No wait, Team Mate Wars claims that Max helped Ricciardo get the podium because if he hadn't broken down Kimi wouldn't have got a penalty. Yeah, go Max!

What a load of *****

Herb wrote:- The sound an engine makes is irrelevant to the amount of enjoyment I get from racing - in fact (on TV anyway) I prefer the current noise to the v8s.

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

ALESI wrote:

ALESI wrote:

cmberry20 wrote:Massa is by far the most overrated driver on the grid. He was only retained by Ferrari because of the accident and they didnt want the press onslaught if they dropped him.

The most overrated driver on the grid now is Max. Yes he's good, yes he's going to be a big star but see the top of this thread for the biggest piece of hype I've ever read.

No wait, Team Mate Wars claims that Max helped Ricciardo get the podium because if he hadn't broken down Kimi wouldn't have got a penalty. Yeah, go Max!

What a load of *****

Wow, I see the anti Ricciardo bias is still kicking in that feature. He also gave the point for this weekend to Kimi which defies all logic to me, I see he's given Kimi 5 weekends so far this year so I'm guessing he may not like Vettel either.

Fiki wrote:

Herb wrote:- The sound an engine makes is irrelevant to the amount of enjoyment I get from racing - in fact (on TV anyway) I prefer the current noise to the v8s.

I agree, and was astonished this weekend to find I needed more hearing protection in the fanzone, than in the grandstand with the F cars passing up the Raidillon at full throttle!
Whatever one thinks about the music the DJ was pumping out, the volume was up to criminal levels, with children passing through the area without any protection at all! Perhaps we need more information for young parents...

If anybody remembers the special sound effects to make the viewers feel the tremors in "Earthquake" (yes, a couple of centuries ago), that's how I felt waiting for Stoffel's interview, and making sure both my earplugs and my hearing protection headset were properly set.

I do fear we're in a very small minority, Herb. It appears the dog needs to bark more.

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:i would rather stand in a field a mile from the circuit, in the rain, naked, and listen to a v10 at 20k rpm then stand next to the track and experience these gutless atrocities.

moby wrote:

Fiki wrote:

Herb wrote:- The sound an engine makes is irrelevant to the amount of enjoyment I get from racing - in fact (on TV anyway) I prefer the current noise to the v8s.

I agree, and was astonished this weekend to find I needed more hearing protection in the fanzone, than in the grandstand with the F cars passing up the Raidillon at full throttle!
Whatever one thinks about the music the DJ was pumping out, the volume was up to criminal levels, with children passing through the area without any protection at all! Perhaps we need more information for young parents...

If anybody remembers the special sound effects to make the viewers feel the tremors in "Earthquake" (yes, a couple of centuries ago), that's how I felt waiting for Stoffel's interview, and making sure both my earplugs and my hearing protection headset were properly set.

I do fear we're in a very small minority, Herb. It appears the dog needs to bark more.

There seem to be deaf ears ( ) involved when people try to explain the difference between the Quality of a sound and the Quantity of a sound. I love a 'tuned' note from an engine, but the usual boy racer seems to just want a loud farting noise, as do many with F1 cars, and defiantly with music at venues. You can hear far more if there is total coverage played at a reasonable level than you can with an overall beat blasting your ears so hard you cannot even detect the subtle notes.

I used to find that the louder a band had the gear the poorer they were, but it seems to be standard to belt everything as hard as possible now, because so many peoples ears are damaged and they can not detect the good music anyway. (I DO love a good moan )

Zoue wrote:

moby wrote:

Fiki wrote:

Herb wrote:- The sound an engine makes is irrelevant to the amount of enjoyment I get from racing - in fact (on TV anyway) I prefer the current noise to the v8s.

I agree, and was astonished this weekend to find I needed more hearing protection in the fanzone, than in the grandstand with the F cars passing up the Raidillon at full throttle!
Whatever one thinks about the music the DJ was pumping out, the volume was up to criminal levels, with children passing through the area without any protection at all! Perhaps we need more information for young parents...

If anybody remembers the special sound effects to make the viewers feel the tremors in "Earthquake" (yes, a couple of centuries ago), that's how I felt waiting for Stoffel's interview, and making sure both my earplugs and my hearing protection headset were properly set.

I do fear we're in a very small minority, Herb. It appears the dog needs to bark more.

There seem to be deaf ears ( ) involved when people try to explain the difference between the Quality of a sound and the Quantity of a sound. I love a 'tuned' note from an engine, but the usual boy racer seems to just want a loud farting noise, as do many with F1 cars, and defiantly with music at venues. You can hear far more if there is total coverage played at a reasonable level than you can with an overall beat blasting your ears so hard you cannot even detect the subtle notes.

I used to find that the louder a band had the gear the poorer they were, but it seems to be standard to belt everything as hard as possible now, because so many peoples ears are damaged and they can not detect the good music anyway. (I DO love a good moan )

Can't quite get what side of the fence you are on with that post, but I don't think the V8s were just about volume, although that undoubtedly played a part. If e.g. the hybrids produced the same decibel levels they still wouldn't sound as thrilling as the V8s and above. To use your terms they were a combination of quality and quantity (volume). Something about the engines screaming at high revs is poetry to many.

I'll stress that I'm not against the hybrids on sound grounds, but I will admit that there's something in the sound of the old engines that stirred the soul

mikeyg123 wrote:Just riffing off the top of my head....



Massa has never been more than an average F1 driver

Grosjean is highly overrated

Penalty's have been handed out for political reasons. Alonso in quali in Monza 2006 and Hamilton at Spa 2008 being examples.

Alonso is by far the best driver in F1 as of now

Rosberg did park at Monaco deliberately

I like Ron Dennis and always have

I don't rate Lauda in the top 10 of all time

F1 has damaged itself to much in the name of safety

The removal of gravel traps is the single worst thing that F1 has done to itself in the last 20 years

I like a lot of Tilke tracks

I don't find overtaking exciting in itself

I don't think the 2011 Red Bull had a big advantage and I don't believe the 2001 was the fastest car that season.

I think the best car fails to win the championships more often than we think. The difference a driver makes is often massively underrated.


Probably more lol

j man wrote:Michael Schumacher deserved the 1994 title

F1 MERCENARY wrote:The Legend of Senna being the greatest F1 driver of all time is only so for the same reasons James Dean, Biggie Smalls, 2Pac and other famous people are so highly regarded,

The top 4 drivers in F1 are fairly equal, including Alonso but if all were in the same car Hamilton would come out on top more often than not.

Kimi is still a top talent

Renault should replace Palmer with Kubica effective immediately

Hulkenberg is a bit overrated

Kvyat is the best driver in Toro Rosso & Red Bull

Daniel Ricciardo IS NOT a late braking God :LOL:

Claire Williams is a Milf. (I have a suspicion that some will agree)

Toto Wolff & Nicky Lauda have brought NOTHING to Mercedes.

Jenson Button was never a Tire Whisperer

Sergio Perez is a top talent

Michael Schumacher is currently the greatest F1 driver of all time. (that can always be in jeopardy - Vettel and Hamilton may rewrite the books on that one)

Sebastian Loeb could still mop the floor with many top F1 Talents

Vandoorne was overrated from day 1, has to do a great deal better for me to think otherwise

F1 should bare ZERO relevance to Road cars

oz_karter wrote:

KingVoid wrote: Verstappen has battered qualifying specialist Ricciardo this season. The score is 8-4 right now and Max just beat Dan by half a second at Spa.

I think the only part of this that might have reason to be unpopular is calling Ricciardo a "qualifying specialist".

The facts:

Dan has only a single pole position
Dan usually performs better in races than in qualifying.

I think the perception comes from 2014 when Dan outqualified Vettel on a regular basis. He's a good qualifier, but his race craft and consistency outshines it IMO.

Verstappen on the other hand, I think has great speed over a lap, but his race craft and consistency suffer.

specdecible wrote:- The 2012 Lotus was the fastest car that season but Kimi and Grosjean failed to get the most out of it.

- Perez was made a scapegoat for McLarens poor 2013 season

lamo wrote:

specdecible wrote:- The 2012 Lotus was the fastest car that season but Kimi and Grosjean failed to get the most out of it.

- Perez was made a scapegoat for McLarens poor 2013 season

I agree with both of these, Perez wasn't that bad and Lotus going into 2012 had;

1) Kimi
Hadn't raced since 2009.
Notoriously sensitive to steering and the car.
Everybody else had had a year on Pirelli and a couple of years or none refueling (Kimi had never raced it before then)

2) Grosjean
Essentially a rookie and never shown himself to be a top driver before or since.

It was likely the best overall car for the first half of the year but Kimi was very rusty and Grosjean was a rookie, I think Grosjean out qualified Kimi 6-1 over the first races, but Kimi got to grips and a lot stronger by which point it wasn't the fastest package anywhere - still good for podiums though and it was also bulletproof. Kimi finished every race.

Also, Kimi's best was which he wasn't anywhere near until at least a third of the way into the season - was probably still a couple of tenths off of the very best at the point (Vettel,Hamilton, Alonso etc). Still, at race 13/20 Kimi was 1 point ahead of eventual champion Vettel. Remove Alonso from the Ferrari that year, you not only remove the biggest challenger to anyone you place in the Renault, you also place a significant upgrade on Kimi - he would have won the title with 2-3 races to spare and at about 2/3 through the year have had a huge points lead in the title

lamo wrote:Still, at race 13/20 Kimi was 1 point ahead of eventual champion Vettel. Remove Alonso from the Ferrari that year, you not only remove the biggest challenger to anyone you place in the Renault, you also place a significant upgrade on Kimi - he would have won the title with 2-3 races to spare and at about 2/3 through the year have had a huge points lead in the title