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Pullrod wrote:So the poll gives us no option on Ocon. Very fair.

I am very worried about these new guys. Ocon, Verstappen, Kvyat, sometimes Sainz. It seems that they can not comprehend the potential danger of some of their antics.
Ocon and Verstappen have been involved too many times now in high speed accidents to make me think it's characteristic to this new generation.

I have watched the previous generation(Hamilton, Vettel) start their F1 careers and I don't remember them being this aggressive or involved in potentially "fatal" accidents.
Ocon yesterday had newer tyres and would have passed Perez on the Kemmel straight. What he did yesterday was even dumber than Perez dangerous driving.

If nothing changes, these new guys will cause a big one somewhere, no doubt about it. Maybe too much videogaming(Ocon is another videogame nerd just like Verstappen), or just a case of too much too soon?
A 20 - 21 year old limit should have been enforced by the FIA many years ago. Too late now.

GingerFurball wrote:What exactly did Ocon do wrong yesterday?

He got a better run out of La Source and was alongside Perez to enough of a degree to be left space.

The contact was 100% Perez's fault.

-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:Dear oh dear... Sorry people, but I see a lot, but A LOT, of blind commenting around here. Just going by what the general perception or the assumptions of the moment dictate. Interestingly, stewards saw nothing to punish. And I myself would have brought Ocon for a spanking. This is the image I was able to extract from a youtube video of the incident... Where did Ocon think he was going? At no time was he alongside Checo (that is about as far as he gets to the car ahead) and he sees it fit to claim the corner? It is not even funny...

Ocon should look back at the Baku incident, to learn what an illegal and stupid crowding of a car (a teammate) to a barrier looks like...

mikeyg123 wrote:

-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:Dear oh dear... Sorry people, but I see a lot, but A LOT, of blind commenting around here. Just going by what the general perception or the assumptions of the moment dictate. Interestingly, stewards saw nothing to punish. And I myself would have brought Ocon for a spanking. This is the image I was able to extract from a youtube video of the incident... Where did Ocon think he was going? At no time was he alongside Checo (that is about as far as he gets to the car ahead) and he sees it fit to claim the corner? It is not even funny...

Ocon should look back at the Baku incident, to learn what an illegal and stupid crowding of a car (a teammate) to a barrier looks like...

Have to leave a cars width between you and the barrier if another car is alongside. Especially if it's your team mate and the team will lose out if you don't. Ocon is only driving into a closing wedge because Perez has positioned his car to make it so. It was dirty driving from Perez.

jasonthebadger wrote:

Pullrod wrote:So the poll gives us no option on Ocon. Very fair.

I am very worried about these new guys. Ocon, Verstappen, Kvyat, sometimes Sainz. It seems that they can not comprehend the potential danger of some of their antics.
Ocon and Verstappen have been involved too many times now in high speed accidents to make me think it's characteristic to this new generation.

I have watched the previous generation(Hamilton, Vettel) start their F1 careers and I don't remember them being this aggressive or involved in potentially "fatal" accidents.
Ocon yesterday had newer tyres and would have passed Perez on the Kemmel straight. What he did yesterday was even dumber than Perez dangerous driving.

If nothing changes, these new guys will cause a big one somewhere, no doubt about it. Maybe too much videogaming(Ocon is another videogame nerd just like Verstappen), or just a case of too much too soon?
A 20 - 21 year old limit should have been enforced by the FIA many years ago. Too late now.

I can change the poll options, So yeah tell me what you want included and I'll pop them in.

TBH though, The primary focus of this thread was about Perez's actions. I thought that the 'See out the rest of the season' and ' Instill team orders ' options would suffice with any pro-Perez arguments. I can see your point of view however. Although I do disagree on Ocon being the problem in the incident yesterday.

Pullrod wrote: It was stupid trying to pass there.
Ocon had better tyre and would have passed Perez in the next straight anyway(something even his engineer told him via radio).
Ocon's move was a result of anger and him seeking revenge for whatever reason. Look at his tweet below with a winking face emoji at the end:

If nothing changes, these new guys will cause a big one somewhere, no doubt about it. Maybe too much videogaming(Ocon is another videogame nerd just like Verstappen), or just a case of too much too soon?

Pullrod wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:Dear oh dear... Sorry people, but I see a lot, but A LOT, of blind commenting around here. Just going by what the general perception or the assumptions of the moment dictate. Interestingly, stewards saw nothing to punish. And I myself would have brought Ocon for a spanking. This is the image I was able to extract from a youtube video of the incident... Where did Ocon think he was going? At no time was he alongside Checo (that is about as far as he gets to the car ahead) and he sees it fit to claim the corner? It is not even funny...

Ocon should look back at the Baku incident, to learn what an illegal and stupid crowding of a car (a teammate) to a barrier looks like...

Have to leave a cars width between you and the barrier if another car is alongside. Especially if it's your team mate and the team will lose out if you don't. Ocon is only driving into a closing wedge because Perez has positioned his car to make it so. It was dirty driving from Perez.

It was stupid trying to pass there.
Ocon had better tyre and would have passed Perez in the next straight anyway(something even his engineer told him via radio).
Ocon's move was a result of anger and him seeking revenge for whatever reason. Look at his tweet below with a winking face emoji at the end:

It is incredible because Perez is may be the driver I like less on the grid, but F1 is now full of immature kids and I am not sure I will enjoy it in the next years.
Ocon claims Perez tried to kill him twice. Laughable.

To OP: I still see no option in the poll for Ocon.

specdecible wrote: It was pretty obvious onboard with Ocon that the door was always going to be shut on him, yet he persisted and the contact was made. Ocon got too greedy and should have instead taken Perez easily on the following straight under DRS, Perez ideally should have left more room for his team mate but at the end of the day he is allowed to defend his position.

mds wrote:

Pullrod wrote: It was stupid trying to pass there.
Ocon had better tyre and would have passed Perez in the next straight anyway(something even his engineer told him via radio).
Ocon's move was a result of anger and him seeking revenge for whatever reason. Look at his tweet below with a winking face emoji at the end:

This is victim blaming at its finest. We've seen overtakes before and into Eau Rouge in the past and we're all cheering when it happens. So it was not "dumb" nor "stupid" what he was doing, he had the better drive and he was entitled a car's width of space. That's right, entitled. He had enough of his car alongside to be granted a car's width, and he should be able to depend on his teammate to at least follow the regulations when racing him and grant him that space. That didn't happen, that was what caused it, and Ocon is 0% to blame for that. 0.

If nothing changes, these new guys will cause a big one somewhere, no doubt about it. Maybe too much videogaming(Ocon is another videogame nerd just like Verstappen), or just a case of too much too soon?

Again, victim blaming. If anything, Perez is going to cause a big one, he senses Ocon getting closer to him, outperforming at times, and he seems to be getting frustrated with it and taking it out in the wrong way.

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Perez to Williams, Wehrlein to FI, Leclerc to Sauber.

jasonthebadger wrote:Poll reset and new option added.

Pullrod wrote: That move attempt was dumb knowing their history. Something Hamilton or Vettel would have never made for example.

Ocon is getting closer but is still well beaten.
He destroyed Perez race in Baku and Yesterday at SPA another non scoring race for Perez but he is still behind in the championship.

mds wrote:

Pullrod wrote: That move attempt was dumb knowing their history. Something Hamilton or Vettel would have never made for example.

Wait, what? "We've had issues so I will know fully expect him to go against the regulations and put me into the wall"?
On that account Ocon should never attempt to pass - after all, if he had to expect this would happen, then he would have had to expect Perez would push him off track on the Kemmel straight just as well.

Ocon is getting closer but is still well beaten.
He destroyed Perez race in Baku and Yesterday at SPA another non scoring race for Perez but he is still behind in the championship.

Your point being? Are you saying Perez doesn't seem to be getting uncomfortable with the idea that a young gun is starting to match him?

Pullrod wrote: Ocon's engineer told him not to worry because he was faster and he would overtake Perez anyway. That's why I believe it was stupid to try to do it there.

I don't believe in "potential"(McLaren illness). I watch the races and the points at the end, and decide for myself.

mds wrote:

Pullrod wrote: Ocon's engineer told him not to worry because he was faster and he would overtake Perez anyway. That's why I believe it was stupid to try to do it there.

The only thing that is stupid is victim blaming. Ocon had a better exit out of La Source, he got alongside, are you going to finally explain to me now why he should have expectect his teammate to ram him into the wall instead of giving him the car's width of space Perez, per regulation, had to give him?

There was nothing weird or dumb in what Ocon did and we see it often enough, in F1 and other classes.

I don't believe in "potential"(McLaren illness). I watch the races and the points at the end, and decide for myself.

I'll repeat my question: Your point being? Are you saying Perez doesn't seem to be getting uncomfortable with the idea that a young gun is starting to match him?

Pullrod wrote:If Perez is feeling any pressure, it is from the media that have decided to push the Verstappen/Ocon/Vandoorner/Leclerc angle for the future of F1.

Pullrod wrote: My point being that I am not a media s*cker. If you have not watched the races this year you would think that Ocon was outqualifying and outracing Perez every weekend. It seems that all that matter in F1 are age and potential.

You keep ignoring Ocon's engineer radio message.

If Perez is feeling any pressure, it is from the media that have decided to push the Verstappen/Ocon/Vandoorner/Leclerc angle for the future of F1.

Badgeronimous wrote: and gambled he would be left space

mcdo wrote:

Pullrod wrote:If Perez is feeling any pressure, it is from the media that have decided to push the Verstappen/Ocon/Vandoorner/Leclerc angle for the future of F1.

I would side with the media on that one. The Perez/Grosjean/Hulkenberg group have been around long enough. Last year I would have included Bottas but Rosberg threw him an unexpected lifeline

Pullrod wrote: Yeah but that's how you create entitled kids, as demonstrated by the last press conference with Verstappen, Ocon and Vandoorne.

mds wrote:

Pullrod wrote: My point being that I am not a media s*cker. If you have not watched the races this year you would think that Ocon was outqualifying and outracing Perez every weekend. It seems that all that matter in F1 are age and potential.

Fine, but how does that relate to what I said?
My point was that Perez seems to be getting nervous since Ocon is starting to match him. I have no idea why you do not respond to this exact point and instead go talking besides the point.

You keep ignoring Ocon's engineer radio message.

I don't. It just doesn't bring anything meaningful to the table, because it doesn't change what happened and who was in the right or wrong.
As I said earlier: if he should have expected Perez to put him into the wall, then he should have never tried a pass ever during that race because he should then have expected Perez to push him off track elsewhere too.

If Perez is feeling any pressure, it is from the media that have decided to push the Verstappen/Ocon/Vandoorner/Leclerc angle for the future of F1.

If Perez outperforms Ocon, then he has nothing to worry about. But Ocon has been right there for the past number of races, and Perez is feeling that pressure no doubt.

Zoue wrote:Don't really get why some are trying to pin blame onto Ocon. He didn't ask to be rammed into the wall

UnlikeUday wrote:This seemed like a bigger contact:


Source - http://www.autosport.com

mds wrote:

Pullrod wrote: Yeah but that's how you create entitled kids, as demonstrated by the last press conference with Verstappen, Ocon and Vandoorne.

I just read that press conference again. How or where do they demonstrate entitledness? That bit of banter, where they were laughing and joking about how they would be at the front when the others retire? That, for you, is showing entitledness?

Goodness me.

Pullrod wrote:

mds wrote:

Pullrod wrote: Yeah but that's how you create entitled kids, as demonstrated by the last press conference with Verstappen, Ocon and Vandoorne.

I just read that press conference again. How or where do they demonstrate entitledness? That bit of banter, where they were laughing and joking about how they would be at the front when the others retire? That, for you, is showing entitledness?

Goodness me.

"create".
Apparently you are not in a good place when you read my posts so refrain from replying if you are not going to put more effort into your thoughts.

Pullrod wrote: To negotiate eau rouge Perez inevitably had to close the space(that's the racing line) and Ocon should have backed out like many other optimistic drivers before him.
Had Perez let him there, I am not sure Sergio would have make the corner over the hill.

mds wrote:

Pullrod wrote:

mds wrote:

Pullrod wrote: Yeah but that's how you create entitled kids, as demonstrated by the last press conference with Verstappen, Ocon and Vandoorne.

I just read that press conference again. How or where do they demonstrate entitledness? That bit of banter, where they were laughing and joking about how they would be at the front when the others retire? That, for you, is showing entitledness?

Goodness me.

"create".
Apparently you are not in a good place when you read my posts so refrain from replying if you are not going to put more effort into your thoughts.

"entitled".
Apparently you are not able to convey your opinion very well, so refrain from posting if you are not going to put more effort into your thoughts.

Your posts gives the impression that you already classify Verstappen, Ocon and Vandoorne as entitled kids. If you do not, then I invite you to explain how exactly that press conference demonstrates how you create entitled kids.

mds wrote:

Pullrod wrote: To negotiate eau rouge Perez inevitably had to close the space(that's the racing line) and Ocon should have backed out like many other optimistic drivers before him.
Had Perez let him there, I am not sure Sergio would have make the corner over the hill.

Yes sure, we have at that point on the lead-up to Eau Rouge never seen two drivers abreast that made it through on towards the Kemmel straight.

Pullrod wrote: It is a fact that the new kids are less "respectful" and will not be afraid to insult Champions and take for granted they will drive for a top team in the future compared to the generation just before them. If your mother keep telling you how faultess and a genius you are, you will fail to accept that you can not always win or want what you wish.

You have an angle with me and I don't need a translator to recognise it.
I thought you were better than that, but I tend to overrate people.

Pullrod wrote: And you want to be taken seriously.
Look at the speed difference and ask yourself why didn't Webber picked the inside line.

Stop your bickering. It is becoming childish.

mds wrote:

Pullrod wrote: It is a fact that the new kids are less "respectful" and will not be afraid to insult Champions and take for granted they will drive for a top team in the future compared to the generation just before them. If your mother keep telling you how faultess and a genius you are, you will fail to accept that you can not always win or want what you wish.

How is this related to the Thursday interview? Please make yourself clear.

You have an angle with me and I don't need a translator to recognise it.
I thought you were better than that, but I tend to overrate people.

I do not agree with your opinion and your opinion is the only thing I responded to. I have no idea how you translate that to being a personal issue, which it is not. May I remind you you are the one that started getting personal with your "not being in a good place" comment, asking me not to reply further.

GingerFurball wrote:What exactly did Ocon do wrong yesterday?

He got a better run out of La Source and was alongside Perez to enough of a degree to be left space.

The contact was 100% Perez's fault.

j man wrote:

Zoue wrote:Don't really get why some are trying to pin blame onto Ocon. He didn't ask to be rammed into the wall

I think the feeling is that Ocon was driving into a closing gap. I've seen other drivers lambasted on this forum for going for a gap like that as well. Personally I strongly disagree and believe that shoving someone off the track (or into a wall) on a straight in order to block a potential overtaking move is extremely poor and dangerous driving.

The one thing I would criticise Ocon for is that Eau Rouge is not a sensible overtaking place; I think he'd have been better off following Perez through there and then slipstreaming past on the Kemmel straight as Vettel tried to do on Hamilton.