If you were Vijay and Otmar....

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What would you do?

Re-sign Perez.
1
4%
Fire Perez instantly.
6
23%
See out the season and decide at the end of that.
5
19%
Instill team orders.
14
54%
Fire Ocon.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 26

jasonthebadger
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by jasonthebadger »

Pullrod wrote:So the poll gives us no option on Ocon. Very fair.

I am very worried about these new guys. Ocon, Verstappen, Kvyat, sometimes Sainz. It seems that they can not comprehend the potential danger of some of their antics.
Ocon and Verstappen have been involved too many times now in high speed accidents to make me think it's characteristic to this new generation.

I have watched the previous generation(Hamilton, Vettel) start their F1 careers and I don't remember them being this aggressive or involved in potentially "fatal" accidents.
Ocon yesterday had newer tyres and would have passed Perez on the Kemmel straight. What he did yesterday was even dumber than Perez dangerous driving.

If nothing changes, these new guys will cause a big one somewhere, no doubt about it. Maybe too much videogaming(Ocon is another videogame nerd just like Verstappen), or just a case of too much too soon?
A 20 - 21 year old limit should have been enforced by the FIA many years ago. Too late now.
I can change the poll options, So yeah tell me what you want included and I'll pop them in.

TBH though, The primary focus of this thread was about Perez's actions. I thought that the 'See out the rest of the season' and ' Instill team orders ' options would suffice with any pro-Perez arguments. I can see your point of view however. Although I do disagree on Ocon being the problem in the incident yesterday.
Any and all opinions are my own, they do not reflect the opinions of the FIA, FOM, Teams, Drivers, PlanetF1, Phase of the Moon, Rotation of the Earth or Aliens.

GingerFurball
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by GingerFurball »

What exactly did Ocon do wrong yesterday?

He got a better run out of La Source and was alongside Perez to enough of a degree to be left space.

The contact was 100% Perez's fault.

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UnlikeUday
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by UnlikeUday »

This seemed like a bigger contact:

Image
Source - www.autosport.com
Feel The Fourth

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UnlikeUday
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by UnlikeUday »

GingerFurball wrote:What exactly did Ocon do wrong yesterday?

He got a better run out of La Source and was alongside Perez to enough of a degree to be left space.

The contact was 100% Perez's fault.
Yeah. Problem is that Checo thinks he still has a chance at a big team & if a rookie beats him (even in 1 race), his stock may diminish. What all banging he's doing is bringing his stock down much further.

I really can't see Checo in Force India next year. As his contract is still not signed, I wonder if Force India wold like to get a suitable replacement as these clashes are way beyond ridiculous. Even Rosberg & Hamilton seem like brothers when compared to these 2.
Feel The Fourth

mikeyg123
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mikeyg123 »

-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:Dear oh dear... Sorry people, but I see a lot, but A LOT, of blind commenting around here. Just going by what the general perception or the assumptions of the moment dictate. Interestingly, stewards saw nothing to punish. And I myself would have brought Ocon for a spanking. This is the image I was able to extract from a youtube video of the incident... Where did Ocon think he was going? At no time was he alongside Checo (that is about as far as he gets to the car ahead) and he sees it fit to claim the corner? It is not even funny...
Image
Ocon should look back at the Baku incident, to learn what an illegal and stupid crowding of a car (a teammate) to a barrier looks like...
Have to leave a cars width between you and the barrier if another car is alongside. Especially if it's your team mate and the team will lose out if you don't. Ocon is only driving into a closing wedge because Perez has positioned his car to make it so. It was dirty driving from Perez.

Pullrod
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Pullrod »

mikeyg123 wrote:
-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:Dear oh dear... Sorry people, but I see a lot, but A LOT, of blind commenting around here. Just going by what the general perception or the assumptions of the moment dictate. Interestingly, stewards saw nothing to punish. And I myself would have brought Ocon for a spanking. This is the image I was able to extract from a youtube video of the incident... Where did Ocon think he was going? At no time was he alongside Checo (that is about as far as he gets to the car ahead) and he sees it fit to claim the corner? It is not even funny...
Image
Ocon should look back at the Baku incident, to learn what an illegal and stupid crowding of a car (a teammate) to a barrier looks like...
Have to leave a cars width between you and the barrier if another car is alongside. Especially if it's your team mate and the team will lose out if you don't. Ocon is only driving into a closing wedge because Perez has positioned his car to make it so. It was dirty driving from Perez.
It was stupid trying to pass there.
Ocon had better tyre and would have passed Perez in the next straight anyway(something even his engineer told him via radio).
Ocon's move was a result of anger and him seeking revenge for whatever reason. Look at his tweet below with a winking face emoji at the end:
It is incredible because Perez is may be the driver I like less on the grid, but F1 is now full of immature kids and I am not sure I will enjoy it in the next years.
Ocon claims Perez tried to kill him twice. Laughable.

To OP: I still see no option in the poll for Ocon.

jasonthebadger
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by jasonthebadger »

jasonthebadger wrote:
Pullrod wrote:So the poll gives us no option on Ocon. Very fair.

I am very worried about these new guys. Ocon, Verstappen, Kvyat, sometimes Sainz. It seems that they can not comprehend the potential danger of some of their antics.
Ocon and Verstappen have been involved too many times now in high speed accidents to make me think it's characteristic to this new generation.

I have watched the previous generation(Hamilton, Vettel) start their F1 careers and I don't remember them being this aggressive or involved in potentially "fatal" accidents.
Ocon yesterday had newer tyres and would have passed Perez on the Kemmel straight. What he did yesterday was even dumber than Perez dangerous driving.

If nothing changes, these new guys will cause a big one somewhere, no doubt about it. Maybe too much videogaming(Ocon is another videogame nerd just like Verstappen), or just a case of too much too soon?
A 20 - 21 year old limit should have been enforced by the FIA many years ago. Too late now.

I can change the poll options, So yeah tell me what you want included and I'll pop them in.


TBH though, The primary focus of this thread was about Perez's actions. I thought that the 'See out the rest of the season' and ' Instill team orders ' options would suffice with any pro-Perez arguments. I can see your point of view however. Although I do disagree on Ocon being the problem in the incident yesterday.
So what options? Fire Ocon?
Any and all opinions are my own, they do not reflect the opinions of the FIA, FOM, Teams, Drivers, PlanetF1, Phase of the Moon, Rotation of the Earth or Aliens.

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mds
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mds »

Pullrod wrote: It was stupid trying to pass there.
Ocon had better tyre and would have passed Perez in the next straight anyway(something even his engineer told him via radio).
Ocon's move was a result of anger and him seeking revenge for whatever reason. Look at his tweet below with a winking face emoji at the end:
This is victim blaming at its finest. We've seen overtakes before and into Eau Rouge in the past and we're all cheering when it happens. So it was not "dumb" nor "stupid" what he was doing, he had the better drive and he was entitled a car's width of space. That's right, entitled. He had enough of his car alongside to be granted a car's width, and he should be able to depend on his teammate to at least follow the regulations when racing him and grant him that space. That didn't happen, that was what caused it, and Ocon is 0% to blame for that. 0.
If nothing changes, these new guys will cause a big one somewhere, no doubt about it. Maybe too much videogaming(Ocon is another videogame nerd just like Verstappen), or just a case of too much too soon?
Again, victim blaming. If anything, Perez is going to cause a big one, he senses Ocon getting closer to him, outperforming at times, and he seems to be getting frustrated with it and taking it out in the wrong way.
Go Vandoorne :( - Verstappen - Vettel!

mikeyg123
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mikeyg123 »

Pullrod wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:Dear oh dear... Sorry people, but I see a lot, but A LOT, of blind commenting around here. Just going by what the general perception or the assumptions of the moment dictate. Interestingly, stewards saw nothing to punish. And I myself would have brought Ocon for a spanking. This is the image I was able to extract from a youtube video of the incident... Where did Ocon think he was going? At no time was he alongside Checo (that is about as far as he gets to the car ahead) and he sees it fit to claim the corner? It is not even funny...
Image
Ocon should look back at the Baku incident, to learn what an illegal and stupid crowding of a car (a teammate) to a barrier looks like...
Have to leave a cars width between you and the barrier if another car is alongside. Especially if it's your team mate and the team will lose out if you don't. Ocon is only driving into a closing wedge because Perez has positioned his car to make it so. It was dirty driving from Perez.
It was stupid trying to pass there.
Ocon had better tyre and would have passed Perez in the next straight anyway(something even his engineer told him via radio).
Ocon's move was a result of anger and him seeking revenge for whatever reason. Look at his tweet below with a winking face emoji at the end:
It is incredible because Perez is may be the driver I like less on the grid, but F1 is now full of immature kids and I am not sure I will enjoy it in the next years.
Ocon claims Perez tried to kill him twice. Laughable.

To OP: I still see no option in the poll for Ocon.
I agree, it's over the top. If someone deliberately drove me in to the wall at 160MPH i'd be a bit miffed as well though. I don't think passing should be banned on any part of the track so if Ocon gets alongside Perez has to leave a cars width no matter where it is on the track.

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mds
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mds »

specdecible wrote: It was pretty obvious onboard with Ocon that the door was always going to be shut on him, yet he persisted and the contact was made. Ocon got too greedy and should have instead taken Perez easily on the following straight under DRS, Perez ideally should have left more room for his team mate but at the end of the day he is allowed to defend his position.
Not in this way.
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Pullrod
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Pullrod »

mds wrote:
Pullrod wrote: It was stupid trying to pass there.
Ocon had better tyre and would have passed Perez in the next straight anyway(something even his engineer told him via radio).
Ocon's move was a result of anger and him seeking revenge for whatever reason. Look at his tweet below with a winking face emoji at the end:
This is victim blaming at its finest. We've seen overtakes before and into Eau Rouge in the past and we're all cheering when it happens. So it was not "dumb" nor "stupid" what he was doing, he had the better drive and he was entitled a car's width of space. That's right, entitled. He had enough of his car alongside to be granted a car's width, and he should be able to depend on his teammate to at least follow the regulations when racing him and grant him that space. That didn't happen, that was what caused it, and Ocon is 0% to blame for that. 0.
If nothing changes, these new guys will cause a big one somewhere, no doubt about it. Maybe too much videogaming(Ocon is another videogame nerd just like Verstappen), or just a case of too much too soon?
Again, victim blaming. If anything, Perez is going to cause a big one, he senses Ocon getting closer to him, outperforming at times, and he seems to be getting frustrated with it and taking it out in the wrong way.
That move attempt was dumb knowing their history. Something Hamilton or Vettel would have never made for example.

Ocon is getting closer but is still well beaten.
He destroyed Perez race in Baku and Yesterday at SPA another non scoring race for Perez but he is still behind in the championship.

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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Pullrod »

These young kids are all looking for the "spectacular" overtake to then watch it on youtube or be voted as Driver of the Day.
Ocon would have easily passed Perez in the next straight but went for the overtake of the day award.
Last edited by Pullrod on Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

jasonthebadger
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by jasonthebadger »

Poll reset and new option added.
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mcdo
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mcdo »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Perez to Williams, Wehrlein to FI, Leclerc to Sauber.
I like this :thumbup:
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Pullrod
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Pullrod »

jasonthebadger wrote:Poll reset and new option added.
Good one OP. :thumbup:
Now there is a sensible option that I can vote.

Both have an attitude problem.

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mds
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mds »

Pullrod wrote: That move attempt was dumb knowing their history. Something Hamilton or Vettel would have never made for example.
Wait, what? "We've had issues so I will know fully expect him to go against the regulations and put me into the wall"?
On that account Ocon should never attempt to pass - after all, if he had to expect this would happen, then he would have had to expect Perez would push him off track on the Kemmel straight just as well.
Ocon is getting closer but is still well beaten.
He destroyed Perez race in Baku and Yesterday at SPA another non scoring race for Perez but he is still behind in the championship.
Your point being? Are you saying Perez doesn't seem to be getting uncomfortable with the idea that a young gun is starting to match him?
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Pullrod »

mds wrote:
Pullrod wrote: That move attempt was dumb knowing their history. Something Hamilton or Vettel would have never made for example.
Wait, what? "We've had issues so I will know fully expect him to go against the regulations and put me into the wall"?
On that account Ocon should never attempt to pass - after all, if he had to expect this would happen, then he would have had to expect Perez would push him off track on the Kemmel straight just as well.
Ocon is getting closer but is still well beaten.
He destroyed Perez race in Baku and Yesterday at SPA another non scoring race for Perez but he is still behind in the championship.
Your point being? Are you saying Perez doesn't seem to be getting uncomfortable with the idea that a young gun is starting to match him?
Ocon's engineer told him not to worry because he was faster and he would overtake Perez anyway. That's why I believe it was stupid to try to do it there.
I don't believe in "potential"(McLaren illness). I watch the races and the points at the end, and decide for myself.
Last edited by Pullrod on Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Zoue
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Zoue »

Don't really get why some are trying to pin blame onto Ocon. He didn't ask to be rammed into the wall

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mds
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mds »

Pullrod wrote: Ocon's engineer told him not to worry because he was faster and he would overtake Perez anyway. That's why I believe it was stupid to try to do it there.
The only thing that is stupid is victim blaming. Ocon had a better exit out of La Source, he got alongside, are you going to finally explain to me now why he should have expectect his teammate to ram him into the wall instead of giving him the car's width of space Perez, per regulation, had to give him?

There was nothing weird or dumb in what Ocon did and we see it often enough, in F1 and other classes.
I don't believe in "potential"(McLaren illness). I watch the races and the points at the end, and decide for myself.
I'll repeat my question: Your point being? Are you saying Perez doesn't seem to be getting uncomfortable with the idea that a young gun is starting to match him?
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Badgeronimous »

I dunno, yeah Perez closed the door aggressively, but Ocon being the behind driver, can see the situation unfold, can see the angle Perez is moving and tbh he willingly drove into a wedge and gambled he would be left space. He has only just got enough along side to have a claim to be entitled space - at 160mph, you are putting a lot of faith on the driver in front to be able judge through a tiny mirror. If Perez closes the door slightly faster - Ocon is going into his back tyre.

I do blame Perez more, but Ocon didn't exactly drive smart either.

Shades of Spain last year, except a barrier is there instead of grass.

Pullrod
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Pullrod »

mds wrote:
Pullrod wrote: Ocon's engineer told him not to worry because he was faster and he would overtake Perez anyway. That's why I believe it was stupid to try to do it there.
The only thing that is stupid is victim blaming. Ocon had a better exit out of La Source, he got alongside, are you going to finally explain to me now why he should have expectect his teammate to ram him into the wall instead of giving him the car's width of space Perez, per regulation, had to give him?

There was nothing weird or dumb in what Ocon did and we see it often enough, in F1 and other classes.
I don't believe in "potential"(McLaren illness). I watch the races and the points at the end, and decide for myself.
I'll repeat my question: Your point being? Are you saying Perez doesn't seem to be getting uncomfortable with the idea that a young gun is starting to match him?
My point being that I am not a media s*cker. If you have not watched the races this year you would think that Ocon was outqualifying and outracing Perez every weekend. It seems that all that matter in F1 are age and potential.

You keep ignoring Ocon's engineer radio message. Ocon was that close to Perez because he was much faster at that point of the race. But impatience. Desire to make a statement.
It is now 2 races for Perez with 0 points but he is still ahead. If Perez is feeling any pressure, it is from the media that have decided to push the Verstappen/Ocon/Vandoorner/Leclerc angle for the future of F1.

Grosjean is in the same situation of Perez.

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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mcdo »

Pullrod wrote:If Perez is feeling any pressure, it is from the media that have decided to push the Verstappen/Ocon/Vandoorner/Leclerc angle for the future of F1.
I would side with the media on that one. The Perez/Grosjean/Hulkenberg group have been around long enough. Last year I would have included Bottas but Rosberg threw him an unexpected lifeline
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mds
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mds »

Pullrod wrote: My point being that I am not a media s*cker. If you have not watched the races this year you would think that Ocon was outqualifying and outracing Perez every weekend. It seems that all that matter in F1 are age and potential.
Fine, but how does that relate to what I said?
My point was that Perez seems to be getting nervous since Ocon is starting to match him. I have no idea why you do not respond to this exact point and instead go talking besides the point.
You keep ignoring Ocon's engineer radio message.
I don't. It just doesn't bring anything meaningful to the table, because it doesn't change what happened and who was in the right or wrong.
As I said earlier: if he should have expected Perez to put him into the wall, then he should have never tried a pass ever during that race because he should then have expected Perez to push him off track elsewhere too.

If Perez is feeling any pressure, it is from the media that have decided to push the Verstappen/Ocon/Vandoorner/Leclerc angle for the future of F1.
If Perez outperforms Ocon, then he has nothing to worry about. But Ocon has been right there for the past number of races, and Perez is feeling that pressure no doubt.
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mds
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mds »

Badgeronimous wrote: and gambled he would be left space
He shouldn't have to gamble about this, he should assume this. In racing you simply do not hold back because you assume that your teammate (or any other driver, for that matter) is going to transgress the regulations and take you out illegally. Because that's not racing anymore.
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Pullrod
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Pullrod »

mcdo wrote:
Pullrod wrote:If Perez is feeling any pressure, it is from the media that have decided to push the Verstappen/Ocon/Vandoorner/Leclerc angle for the future of F1.
I would side with the media on that one. The Perez/Grosjean/Hulkenberg group have been around long enough. Last year I would have included Bottas but Rosberg threw him an unexpected lifeline
Yeah but that's how you create entitled kids, as demonstrated by the last press conference with Verstappen, Ocon and Vandoorne.
Something has definitely changed compared to just few years ago.

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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mds »

Pullrod wrote: Yeah but that's how you create entitled kids, as demonstrated by the last press conference with Verstappen, Ocon and Vandoorne.
I just read that press conference again. How or where do they demonstrate entitledness? That bit of banter, where they were laughing and joking about how they would be at the front when the others retire? That, for you, is showing entitledness?

Goodness me.
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Pullrod »

mds wrote:
Pullrod wrote: My point being that I am not a media s*cker. If you have not watched the races this year you would think that Ocon was outqualifying and outracing Perez every weekend. It seems that all that matter in F1 are age and potential.
Fine, but how does that relate to what I said?
My point was that Perez seems to be getting nervous since Ocon is starting to match him. I have no idea why you do not respond to this exact point and instead go talking besides the point.
You keep ignoring Ocon's engineer radio message.
I don't. It just doesn't bring anything meaningful to the table, because it doesn't change what happened and who was in the right or wrong.
As I said earlier: if he should have expected Perez to put him into the wall, then he should have never tried a pass ever during that race because he should then have expected Perez to push him off track elsewhere too.

If Perez is feeling any pressure, it is from the media that have decided to push the Verstappen/Ocon/Vandoorner/Leclerc angle for the future of F1.
If Perez outperforms Ocon, then he has nothing to worry about. But Ocon has been right there for the past number of races, and Perez is feeling that pressure no doubt.
To negotiate eau rouge Perez inevitably had to close the space(that's the racing line) and Ocon should have backed out like many other optimistic drivers before him.
Had Perez let him there, I am not sure Sergio would have make the corner over the hill.

Media speculation can have a big effect on performance. Perez never had that kind of pressure(from the media) when he was paired with Hulkenberg. Ricciardo is feeling the same and has now crashed twice in qualifying and is miles slower in qualifying.

It doesn't matter if Perez beats Ocon because the media would put it down to his inexperience or age. It is a lose-lose situation for Perez.

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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by j man »

Zoue wrote:Don't really get why some are trying to pin blame onto Ocon. He didn't ask to be rammed into the wall
I think the feeling is that Ocon was driving into a closing gap. I've seen other drivers lambasted on this forum for going for a gap like that as well. Personally I strongly disagree and believe that shoving someone off the track (or into a wall) on a straight in order to block a potential overtaking move is extremely poor and dangerous driving.

The one thing I would criticise Ocon for is that Eau Rouge is not a sensible overtaking place; I think he'd have been better off following Perez through there and then slipstreaming past on the Kemmel straight as Vettel tried to do on Hamilton.

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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by j man »

UnlikeUday wrote:This seemed like a bigger contact:

Image
Source - http://www.autosport.com
I'd give Perez the benefit of the doubt on that one. I think he was busy watching Hulkenberg and didn't know Ocon was there. A little careless but a racing incident nonetheless.

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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Pullrod »

mds wrote:
Pullrod wrote: Yeah but that's how you create entitled kids, as demonstrated by the last press conference with Verstappen, Ocon and Vandoorne.
I just read that press conference again. How or where do they demonstrate entitledness? That bit of banter, where they were laughing and joking about how they would be at the front when the others retire? That, for you, is showing entitledness?

Goodness me.
"create".
Apparently you are not in a good place when you read my posts so refrain yourself from replying if you are not going to put more effort into your thoughts.

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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mds »

Pullrod wrote:
mds wrote:
Pullrod wrote: Yeah but that's how you create entitled kids, as demonstrated by the last press conference with Verstappen, Ocon and Vandoorne.
I just read that press conference again. How or where do they demonstrate entitledness? That bit of banter, where they were laughing and joking about how they would be at the front when the others retire? That, for you, is showing entitledness?

Goodness me.
"create".
Apparently you are not in a good place when you read my posts so refrain from replying if you are not going to put more effort into your thoughts.
"entitled".
Apparently you are not able to convey your opinion very well, so refrain from posting if you are not going to put more effort into your thoughts.

Your post gives the impression that you already classify Verstappen, Ocon and Vandoorne as entitled kids. If you do not, then I invite you to explain how exactly that press conference demonstrates how you create entitled kids.
Last edited by mds on Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mds »

Pullrod wrote: To negotiate eau rouge Perez inevitably had to close the space(that's the racing line) and Ocon should have backed out like many other optimistic drivers before him.
Had Perez let him there, I am not sure Sergio would have make the corner over the hill.
Yes sure, we have at that point on the lead-up to Eau Rouge never seen two drivers abreast that made it through on towards the Kemmel straight.

Go Vandoorne :( - Verstappen - Vettel!

Pullrod
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Pullrod »

mds wrote:
Pullrod wrote:
mds wrote:
Pullrod wrote: Yeah but that's how you create entitled kids, as demonstrated by the last press conference with Verstappen, Ocon and Vandoorne.
I just read that press conference again. How or where do they demonstrate entitledness? That bit of banter, where they were laughing and joking about how they would be at the front when the others retire? That, for you, is showing entitledness?

Goodness me.
"create".
Apparently you are not in a good place when you read my posts so refrain from replying if you are not going to put more effort into your thoughts.
"entitled".
Apparently you are not able to convey your opinion very well, so refrain from posting if you are not going to put more effort into your thoughts.

Your posts gives the impression that you already classify Verstappen, Ocon and Vandoorne as entitled kids. If you do not, then I invite you to explain how exactly that press conference demonstrates how you create entitled kids.

It is a fact that the new kids are less "respectful" and will not be afraid to insult Champions and take for granted they will drive for a top team in the future compared to the generation just before them. If your mother keep telling you how faultess and a genius you are, you will fail to accept that you can not always win or want what you wish.

You have an angle with me and I don't need a translator to recognise it. ;)
I thought you were better than that, but I tend to overrate people.

Pullrod
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Pullrod »

mds wrote:
Pullrod wrote: To negotiate eau rouge Perez inevitably had to close the space(that's the racing line) and Ocon should have backed out like many other optimistic drivers before him.
Had Perez let him there, I am not sure Sergio would have make the corner over the hill.
Yes sure, we have at that point on the lead-up to Eau Rouge never seen two drivers abreast that made it through on towards the Kemmel straight.

And you want to be taken seriously.
Look at the speed difference and ask yourself why didn't Webber picked the inside line.

Stop your bickering. It is becoming childish.

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mds
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mds »

Pullrod wrote: It is a fact that the new kids are less "respectful" and will not be afraid to insult Champions and take for granted they will drive for a top team in the future compared to the generation just before them. If your mother keep telling you how faultess and a genius you are, you will fail to accept that you can not always win or want what you wish.
How is this related to the Thursday interview? Please make yourself clear.
You have an angle with me and I don't need a translator to recognise it. ;)
I thought you were better than that, but I tend to overrate people.
I do not agree with your opinion and your opinion is the only thing I responded to. I have no idea how you translate that to being a personal issue, which it is not. May I remind you you are the one that started getting personal with your "not being in a good place" comment, asking me not to reply further.
Go Vandoorne :( - Verstappen - Vettel!

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mds
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by mds »

Pullrod wrote: And you want to be taken seriously.
Look at the speed difference and ask yourself why didn't Webber picked the inside line.
They are side by side MUCH deeper towards Eau Rouge and still manage to get through it cleanly. The idea that Perez and Ocon couldn't have made it is nonsense, we've seen it lots of times before.
Stop your bickering. It is becoming childish.
It's not bickering, it's replying to your opinion and proving it wrong with actual facts and past events.
If you can't handle that, then who's the child?
Go Vandoorne :( - Verstappen - Vettel!

Pullrod
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Pullrod »

mds wrote:
Pullrod wrote: It is a fact that the new kids are less "respectful" and will not be afraid to insult Champions and take for granted they will drive for a top team in the future compared to the generation just before them. If your mother keep telling you how faultess and a genius you are, you will fail to accept that you can not always win or want what you wish.
How is this related to the Thursday interview? Please make yourself clear.
You have an angle with me and I don't need a translator to recognise it. ;)
I thought you were better than that, but I tend to overrate people.
I do not agree with your opinion and your opinion is the only thing I responded to. I have no idea how you translate that to being a personal issue, which it is not. May I remind you you are the one that started getting personal with your "not being in a good place" comment, asking me not to reply further.
You are replying 2 minutes after my post, so you put zero thought into your replies but instead you ask me why this how that.
I have zero issue, only with those who debate back and forth without adding much.

-ZeroGravityToilet-
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by -ZeroGravityToilet- »

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-ZeroGravityToilet-
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by -ZeroGravityToilet- »

GingerFurball wrote:What exactly did Ocon do wrong yesterday?

He got a better run out of La Source and was alongside Perez to enough of a degree to be left space.

The contact was 100% Perez's fault.
Have you actually seen the onboard video again? If not, may I redirect you to an image posted on this same thread that explains what exactly did Ocon do wrong?

Option or Prime
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Re: If you were Vijay and Otmar....

Post by Option or Prime »

j man wrote:
Zoue wrote:Don't really get why some are trying to pin blame onto Ocon. He didn't ask to be rammed into the wall
I think the feeling is that Ocon was driving into a closing gap. I've seen other drivers lambasted on this forum for going for a gap like that as well. Personally I strongly disagree and believe that shoving someone off the track (or into a wall) on a straight in order to block a potential overtaking move is extremely poor and dangerous driving.

The one thing I would criticise Ocon for is that Eau Rouge is not a sensible overtaking place; I think he'd have been better off following Perez through there and then slipstreaming past on the Kemmel straight as Vettel tried to do on Hamilton.
The closing gap in previous incidents has often been drivers diving down the inside at corners, where it occurs on a straight you must leave room if you have let the following driver get a line on you. Whats more it is so easy to, (unless you have a grudge), do with little risk to yourself,

The later overtake might have been easier, however, can you really blame a driver if he sees an opportunity? Opportunities to overtake are rare so I just think Ocon went for it, in hindsight later was probably better but I can see why he did it there.

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