2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Thread

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TheGiantHogweed
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

kleefton wrote:
Source http://techassimilate.com/2014/08/uk-ma ... s-by-2015/

Image


I agree. In fact if you examine the best sector times for each driver you would see how close it is. Hamilton just did the best job of hooking up his sectors, but the ferrari is competitive in every sector. Raikonnen had a shot of challenging Lewis for pole to be honest, the fact he made a mistake on his final run and helped vettel with the tow is frankly bizarre.
There is a decent chance the Ferrari might be the faster race car here actually, Merc's qualifying mode allowed them to keep their head above water today, but tomorrow may be a different story.
Seeing this table just shows how good Palmer was today. Best of the rest outside of the top 3 teams by the look of it. He still had a faster time in Q2 than Perez, Ocon and Hulkenberg managed in Q3. And I think he was faster than all in Q2 too. He was so unlucky to have his issues. Even after he first had them, the team fixed them and he improved, then his more and had to pull off. While he has been very poor this season until now, his bad luck is so bad.

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moby
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by moby »

zaar wrote:
kleefton wrote:Vettel just can't stop staring at the Merc can he? Almost like a buyer eying his new car at the dealership.
Ok Seb, checking up your new ride for 2018 perhaps? :lol:
He signed with Ferrari for three more years
So its like the game show, Ah sorry that's the wrong answer. Come and see what you would have won.

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Blake
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Blake »

Migen wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Räikkönen proving why he was extending - sacrificing his own decisive qualifying lap to give Vettel a slipstream.
:lol:
What do You expect a no. 2 driver to do?
Exactly this. Ferrari plays the No. 1-and-lapdog game very well. Just funny that some keep denying it.

:lol:
Basically, you are implying that Kimi intentionally made a mistake which ruined his own lap, just to give Vettel a few moments later the help of a slipstream, at a time when it wasnt a given that Vettel himself wouldnt have made a mistake and both Ferrari drivers could have been pipped by Verstappen too!? Ok, thank you for finally providing such a sound proof to the "No. 1-and-lapdog game" that no one can possibly refute it anymore 8O
Just consider the source and laugh it off, Migen. Easier said than done, I admit... I am trying to do it too.
:lol:
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lamo

Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by lamo »

Bottas no where again, very odd driver. 0.5-0.7 behind about 40% of the time this year. Within 0.2 of Lewis about 20% of the time, equal/narrowly faster about 20% and quite a bit quicker about 20% of the time.

PRFAN
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by PRFAN »

Blake wrote:
Migen wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Räikkönen proving why he was extending - sacrificing his own decisive qualifying lap to give Vettel a slipstream.
:lol:
What do You expect a no. 2 driver to do?
Exactly this. Ferrari plays the No. 1-and-lapdog game very well. Just funny that some keep denying it.

:lol:
Basically, you are implying that Kimi intentionally made a mistake which ruined his own lap, just to give Vettel a few moments later the help of a slipstream, at a time when it wasnt a given that Vettel himself wouldnt have made a mistake and both Ferrari drivers could have been pipped by Verstappen too!? Ok, thank you for finally providing such a sound proof to the "No. 1-and-lapdog game" that no one can possibly refute it anymore 8O
Just consider the source and laugh it off, Migen. Easier said than done, I admit... I am trying to do it too.
:lol:
Quote from the driver himself pulled from this site.

Don't try to make a f**king stupid story about this,"

"I had a mistake, I was coming back, and obviously if I can help our team I will do it.

"There are not any other stories behind it."

On the source of vibrations in his car-
"I don't know what it is,"

"At first it was worse, then a little bit less, then it disappeared and then it came back.

"Apart from that it was going pretty okay… on the last run there were some small things that were not ideal, and we went a bit sideways at one place.

"I was struggling a bit with the tyre temperatures, for whatever reason, on the last lap, so I got sideways and I couldn't finish the lap."


But to some its all just this huge conspiracy.

ReservoirDog
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by ReservoirDog »

Raikkonen down to his usual self. Just can't put a weekend together. When the time came, he was unable to deliver. What a waste.

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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Clarky »

optimisteprime wrote:Stunning lap from Vettel at the end there, Ferrari not on the same planet as the Mercedes but to get within 3 tenths was incredible.
Good lap but had assistance.

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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Herb Tarlik »

ReservoirDog wrote:Raikkonen down to his usual self. Just can't put a weekend together. When the time came, he was unable to deliver. What a waste.
Why people expect otherwise from Kimi is absolutely astonishing. They guy is so past his prime that you can't hardly see those long lost days.

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F1nut
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by F1nut »

Herb Tarlik wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:Raikkonen down to his usual self. Just can't put a weekend together. When the time came, he was unable to deliver. What a waste.
Why people expect otherwise from Kimi is absolutely astonishing. They guy is so past his prime that you can't hardly see those long lost days.
Dang....., over here in Texas the "weekend" is only "half" over and I'm guessing Ferrari are more than satisfied with Kimi's abilities or they would not have extended his driving contract........
Last edited by F1nut on Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lojik
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Lojik »

F1nut wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:Raikkonen down to his usual self. Just can't put a weekend together. When the time came, he was unable to deliver. What a waste.
Why people expect otherwise from Kimi is absolutely astonishing. They guy is so past his prime that you can't hardly see those long lost days.
Dang....., over here in Texas the "weekend" is only "half" over and I'm guessing Ferrari are more that satisfied with Kimi's abilities or they would not have extended his driving contract........
I suspect Raikkonen was re-signed, at least in part, to keep Vettel happy.

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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Warheart01 »

Lojik wrote:
F1nut wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:Raikkonen down to his usual self. Just can't put a weekend together. When the time came, he was unable to deliver. What a waste.
Why people expect otherwise from Kimi is absolutely astonishing. They guy is so past his prime that you can't hardly see those long lost days.
Dang....., over here in Texas the "weekend" is only "half" over and I'm guessing Ferrari are more that satisfied with Kimi's abilities or they would not have extended his driving contract........
I suspect Raikkonen was re-signed, at least in part, to keep Vettel happy.
Hey hey hey! Careful! This is PF1-forum you can't just go and say these things out loud! Think of the childr... posters!

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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

lamo wrote:Bottas no where again, very odd driver. 0.5-0.7 behind about 40% of the time this year. Within 0.2 of Lewis about 20% of the time, equal/narrowly faster about 20% and quite a bit quicker about 20% of the time.
He was somewhere ;)
3rd.

I thought that today it was more that Hamilton was just much better. And this has been the case at several other tracks. But Bottas's position has only been as low as 4th on one occasion. Where as Hamilton has been 4th twice and as bad as 14th in Monaco. And this was more costly to him in terms of points than Bottas's mistake in the race in China actually. Hamilton is certainly quite a bit better in qualifying and the race but when Bottas does do worse in qualifying, he usually does so at tracks that are easier to overtake on race day.

When you even out all those percentages, considering many think Hamilton is much better, I don't see how it makes Bottas a "very odd driver" in any way. Maybe Hamilton is just very good at most circuits in the same way that Bottas is probably about the best in Russia. This just maybe makes their one lap pace appear quite different.
It hardly matters though. Bottas has been doing a perfectly decent job this year.

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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Prema »

Lojik wrote: I suspect Raikkonen was re-signed, at least in part, to keep Vettel happy.
If that's the case, power to Vettel.

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Lotus49
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Lotus49 »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Mercedes really blow Ferrari away on the long straights, I thought they were supposed to be roughly equal now in engine power?

Kimi is a beast around Spa, would be awesome to see him get another win here.
The oil ban kicked Ferrari back a bit but not by much, it's still reasonably close in peak power according to AMuS and F1-AT. Mercedes is just by far the less draggy car thanks to the LWB concept.

We only really notice Mercedes advantage on the longest straights or circuits like this,Baku and Silverstone when the drag effect is more powerful. Canada or Spain for example Ferrari were quicker in the "power" sectors and I'll bet we see the same post Monza.
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Laz_T800 »

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:I think by now we've gained a reliable insight this season.

Mercedes engine mode is around half a second a lap. 6 tenths here due to a longer track. The fact that Ferrari have still got 3 poles is a testament to how good the Ferrari is.
Maybe it's down to drivers?
Yes, you're totally right. Coincidentally, on the second run in Q2, both Bottas and Hamilton found exactly 6 tenths on their previous lap. Yeah, totally because of drivers. They found exactly the same amount, at the same time.

And it happens at the same time at every qualifying session.
And it happened with Rosberg, too.

Totally, it's a driver characteristic, not a car characteristic. You make sense.
You probably missed the massive improvement that the Ferraris had on their Q2 times.
Maybe it's now Ferrari who have the super duper Q3 mode?
I guess that doesn't fit the narrative you are trying to push though so there is no chance you'd highlight it.

lamo

Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by lamo »

The position of Bottas is irrelevant, the gap is everything in any team mate duel. Same car, that is the only accurate barometer you can have for him. Would it be more impressive if he was 2nd but 0.65behind like in Baku?

Bottas being 0.200 behind Lewis but starting 7 places behind him is much much more impressive than being 0.550 behind and 2 places behind. In a close season, like 2008 with Heikki, Bottas would be starting those 4/5 races in 8-11th position if 0.5-0.7 off Lewis.

Any driver, any team, in a straight fight - if you are 0.5 plus behind, you have massively under performed. Simple as that.

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SmoothRide
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by SmoothRide »

lamo wrote:The position of Bottas is irrelevant, the gap is everything in any team mate duel. Same car, that is the only accurate barometer you can have for him. Would it be more impressive if he was 2nd but 0.65behind like in Baku?

Bottas being 0.200 behind Lewis but starting 7 places behind him is much much more impressive than being 0.550 behind and 2 places behind. In a close season, like 2008 with Heikki, Bottas would be starting those 4/5 races in 8-11th position if 0.5-0.7 off Lewis.

Any driver, any team, in a straight fight - if you are 0.5 plus behind, you have massively under performed. Simple as that.
Bottas under-performed in today's quali, no question. The entire gap was basically down to the middle sector, which is the one where a driver can make the most difference. S1 and S3 are all power.

I would give Bottas some credit for the season overall though. He doesn't have Hamilton's pace more often than not, but he is able to stay close nonetheless by avoiding costly errors or getting away with them like in Baku. He has actually gotten closer in the points standings in the last few races, which I really didn't expect.

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Blake
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Blake »

I think that some seem to forget that Bottas is in his first year with the team, in his first year with a top team, and is paired with a teammate who has been with the team for many years.

I wouldn't come down too hard on Bottas
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by ob1kenobi.23 »

Lotus49 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Mercedes really blow Ferrari away on the long straights, I thought they were supposed to be roughly equal now in engine power?

Kimi is a beast around Spa, would be awesome to see him get another win here.
The oil ban kicked Ferrari back a bit but not by much, it's still reasonably close in peak power according to AMuS and F1-AT. Mercedes is just by far the less draggy car thanks to the LWB concept.

We only really notice Mercedes advantage on the longest straights or circuits like this,Baku and Silverstone when the drag effect is more powerful. Canada or Spain for example Ferrari were quicker in the "power" sectors and I'll bet we see the same post Monza.



It would seem from this report that Merc burn more oil than Ferrari this weekend.


http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37170.html
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by F1_Ernie »

ob1kenobi.23 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Mercedes really blow Ferrari away on the long straights, I thought they were supposed to be roughly equal now in engine power?

Kimi is a beast around Spa, would be awesome to see him get another win here.
The oil ban kicked Ferrari back a bit but not by much, it's still reasonably close in peak power according to AMuS and F1-AT. Mercedes is just by far the less draggy car thanks to the LWB concept.

We only really notice Mercedes advantage on the longest straights or circuits like this,Baku and Silverstone when the drag effect is more powerful. Canada or Spain for example Ferrari were quicker in the "power" sectors and I'll bet we see the same post Monza.



It would seem from this report that Merc burn more oil than Ferrari this weekend.


http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37170.html
Mercedes introduced new engines this weekend so they can have new engines which consume 1.2 litres in there engine pool, if they waited till Monza onwards the new rule is all new engines consume 0.9.
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by mikeyg123 »

Gaps between team mates has really grown in recent years.

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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Exediron »

mikeyg123 wrote:Gaps between team mates has really grown in recent years.
It's just this year. I think it might be something to do with the new cars, but I've definitely noticed it.
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Lotus49 »

ob1kenobi.23 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Mercedes really blow Ferrari away on the long straights, I thought they were supposed to be roughly equal now in engine power?

Kimi is a beast around Spa, would be awesome to see him get another win here.
The oil ban kicked Ferrari back a bit but not by much, it's still reasonably close in peak power according to AMuS and F1-AT. Mercedes is just by far the less draggy car thanks to the LWB concept.

We only really notice Mercedes advantage on the longest straights or circuits like this,Baku and Silverstone when the drag effect is more powerful. Canada or Spain for example Ferrari were quicker in the "power" sectors and I'll bet we see the same post Monza.



It would seem from this report that Merc burn more oil than Ferrari this weekend.


http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37170.html
Oh I'm personally convinced they've both been at it, Mercedes since the start of the era and Ferrari since 2015. Ferrari were taking advantage of the FIA's complete nonchalance about the whole thing this year and tacit admission they couldn't monitor it under current techniques and introduced a second oil tank to burn even more and close the gap up on Mercedes until Baku.

Losing that tank put them back a touch and now we've got this new nonsense from the FIA about acceptable limits that Mercedes have pulled a sneaky one with.

Only when the new PU rules and the banning of active valves and proper monitoring techniques come in next year will they suddenly have no need for the ridiculous amount of oil they've been going through. This latest band aid about limits is a big bag of meh.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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ob1kenobi.23
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by ob1kenobi.23 »

Lotus49 wrote:
ob1kenobi.23 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:Mercedes really blow Ferrari away on the long straights, I thought they were supposed to be roughly equal now in engine power?

Kimi is a beast around Spa, would be awesome to see him get another win here.
The oil ban kicked Ferrari back a bit but not by much, it's still reasonably close in peak power according to AMuS and F1-AT. Mercedes is just by far the less draggy car thanks to the LWB concept.

We only really notice Mercedes advantage on the longest straights or circuits like this,Baku and Silverstone when the drag effect is more powerful. Canada or Spain for example Ferrari were quicker in the "power" sectors and I'll bet we see the same post Monza.





It would seem from this report that Merc burn more oil than Ferrari this weekend.


http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns37170.html
Oh I'm personally convinced they've both been at it, Mercedes since the start of the era and Ferrari since 2015. Ferrari were taking advantage of the FIA's complete nonchalance about the whole thing this year and tacit admission they couldn't monitor it under current techniques and introduced a second oil tank to burn even more and close the gap up on Mercedes until Baku.

Losing that tank put them back a touch and now we've got this new nonsense from the FIA about acceptable limits that Mercedes have pulled a sneaky one with.

Only when the new PU rules and the banning of active valves and proper monitoring techniques come in next year will they suddenly have no need for the ridiculous amount of oil they've been going through. This latest band aid about limits is a big bag of meh.


Thanks for that info, I was just making the point that one team is as guilty as the next.
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by UnlikeUday »

Image
Source - www.f1i.com
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Covalent »

Relatively large gap in top speeds between Bottas and Hamilton compared to other teammates, could the llack of pace for Bottas be explained by setup differences?

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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Lojik »

Covalent wrote:could the llack of pace for Bottas be explained by setup differences?
Of course. We have seen a number of occassions this year where one Merc driver is happy with the setup and the other is not. I don't remember hearing Bottas complaining about it in interviews yesterday, but could still be the case.

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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Migen wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Räikkönen proving why he was extending - sacrificing his own decisive qualifying lap to give Vettel a slipstream.
:lol:
What do You expect a no. 2 driver to do?
Exactly this. Ferrari plays the No. 1-and-lapdog game very well. Just funny that some keep denying it.

:lol:
Basically, you are implying that Kimi intentionally made a mistake which ruined his own lap, just to give Vettel a few moments later the help of a slipstream, at a time when it wasnt a given that Vettel himself wouldnt have made a mistake and both Ferrari drivers could have been pipped by Verstappen too!? Ok, thank you for finally providing such a sound proof to the "No. 1-and-lapdog game" that no one can possibly refute it anymore 8O
Incidentally Räikkönen on his favorite track, being on it all weekend sofar, makes a big mistake in his favorite sector.
Incidentally, the Ferrari cars are placed on the track, so that a slipstream help becomes possible.
Incidentally, KRs mistake is exactly big enough, so that he can provide the perfect slipstream help.
Quite a perfect combination of incidents. Possible? Yes. Probable? Not so much ...

As for the latter part of your post, it is the combination of events throughout the season that gives a clear picture to the unbiased observer. Plus Ferrari has a history of favoring No.1-lapdog strategies. And that's not prohibited. I just find it curious that some keep denying that it is like this.

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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Blake »

And you are one of those "unbiased observers".
LMAO
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kleefton
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by kleefton »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Migen wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Räikkönen proving why he was extending - sacrificing his own decisive qualifying lap to give Vettel a slipstream.
:lol:
What do You expect a no. 2 driver to do?
Exactly this. Ferrari plays the No. 1-and-lapdog game very well. Just funny that some keep denying it.

:lol:
Basically, you are implying that Kimi intentionally made a mistake which ruined his own lap, just to give Vettel a few moments later the help of a slipstream, at a time when it wasnt a given that Vettel himself wouldnt have made a mistake and both Ferrari drivers could have been pipped by Verstappen too!? Ok, thank you for finally providing such a sound proof to the "No. 1-and-lapdog game" that no one can possibly refute it anymore 8O
Incidentally Räikkönen on his favorite track, being on it all weekend sofar, makes a big mistake in his favorite sector.
Incidentally, the Ferrari cars are placed on the track, so that a slipstream help becomes possible.
Incidentally, KRs mistake is exactly big enough, so that he can provide the perfect slipstream help.
Quite a perfect combination of incidents. Possible? Yes. Probable? Not so much ...

As for the latter part of your post, it is the combination of events throughout the season that gives a clear picture to the unbiased observer. Plus Ferrari has a history of favoring No.1-lapdog strategies. And that's not prohibited. I just find it curious that some keep denying that it is like this.
I would have to agree with most of this. It's just too weird how it all "fell away" for Raikonnen and he had the presence of mind to help his teammate in the process. Too bizarre to be true, tbh.

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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by F1_Ernie »

Did you hear the radio messages online were Ferrari was thanking Kimi on the radio?
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by lamo »

Bottas actually seemed to have a great race pace, I was impressed, he was about 6-7 seconds behind Lewis at 60-70% race distance. Although I watched the race without sound and assume both were 1 stopping ?

The Hamilton - Bottas battle feels like 2014 with Nico where Bottas is trading race pace and qualify pace each week. So if he is quick over one lap, he isn't so strong in the race (Bahrain, Monaco, Austria and Russia) but if he is very slow in qualifying he actually has a decent race pace (baku, Canada, silverstone and Spa)

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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by F1_Ernie »

lamo wrote:Bottas actually seemed to have a great race pace, I was impressed, he was about 6-7 seconds behind Lewis at 60-70% race distance. Although I watched the race without sound and assume both were 1 stopping ?

The Hamilton - Bottas battle feels like 2014 with Nico where Bottas is trading race pace and qualify pace each week. So if he is quick over one lap, he isn't so strong in the race (Bahrain, Monaco, Austria and Russia) but if he is very slow in qualifying he actually has a decent race pace (baku, Canada, silverstone and Spa)
Bottas race pace wasn't great in Spa, Hamilton was holding back in the second stint. Hamilton and Vettel would have been off in the distance if they wanted too.
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by kleefton »

lamo wrote:Bottas actually seemed to have a great race pace, I was impressed, he was about 6-7 seconds behind Lewis at 60-70% race distance. Although I watched the race without sound and assume both were 1 stopping ?

The Hamilton - Bottas battle feels like 2014 with Nico where Bottas is trading race pace and qualify pace each week. So if he is quick over one lap, he isn't so strong in the race (Bahrain, Monaco, Austria and Russia) but if he is very slow in qualifying he actually has a decent race pace (baku, Canada, silverstone and Spa)
I beg to differ. His race pace was clearly lacking and he admitted so in the post race interview. Hamilton did quite a few high 48s in that second stint but chose to go slower than possible and manage the tires. Bottas was doing mostly mid to low 49s and popped in only one high 48 for fastest lap but failed to close the gap when he really should have.

Migen
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Migen »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Migen wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Räikkönen proving why he was extending - sacrificing his own decisive qualifying lap to give Vettel a slipstream.
:lol:
What do You expect a no. 2 driver to do?
Exactly this. Ferrari plays the No. 1-and-lapdog game very well. Just funny that some keep denying it.

:lol:
Basically, you are implying that Kimi intentionally made a mistake which ruined his own lap, just to give Vettel a few moments later the help of a slipstream, at a time when it wasnt a given that Vettel himself wouldnt have made a mistake and both Ferrari drivers could have been pipped by Verstappen too!? Ok, thank you for finally providing such a sound proof to the "No. 1-and-lapdog game" that no one can possibly refute it anymore 8O
Incidentally Räikkönen on his favorite track, being on it all weekend sofar, makes a big mistake in his favorite sector.
Incidentally, the Ferrari cars are placed on the track, so that a slipstream help becomes possible.
Incidentally, KRs mistake is exactly big enough, so that he can provide the perfect slipstream help.
Quite a perfect combination of incidents. Possible? Yes. Probable? Not so much ...

As for the latter part of your post, it is the combination of events throughout the season that gives a clear picture to the unbiased observer. Plus Ferrari has a history of favoring No.1-lapdog strategies. And that's not prohibited. I just find it curious that some keep denying that it is like this.
Just curious... have you ever seen a driver make a mistake during one of their qualifying laps over the year, or has it never happen before? Or maybe it has never happen to Kimi to screw up one of his qualifying laps in his career? But if this isnt Kimi's first ever mistake in a qually lap, can you also point out what ulterior motif his previous "intentional" mistakes have had? Please, enlighten me!

What does favorite track / sector has anything to do with it? Is it forbidden for a driver to ever get wrong one of his laps on their favorite track during their career?
During probably all the Q3s we had this last 3 seasons, Ferraris(Mercedes too) have always gone out few seconds apart from each-other which could have made this slipstream work... but why didnt Ferrari try the same in Canada, Baku or even the same SPA qualies in 2015 and 2016? Is there any slight chance that it could simply be down to the fact that Kimi's mistake yesterday was genuine?

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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

MasterRacer wrote:I have a feeling Hamilton's engine might go bang bang bang this weekend.
Which lottery numbers do you feel aren't coming up next draw?

lamo

Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by lamo »

I see, I watched it in a crowded bar with no sound so I don't know what really happened. Was Bottas going to 2 stop without the SC?

2014 onwards Hamilton does like to win races as slowly as he can..

F1_Ernie
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by F1_Ernie »

lamo wrote:I see, I watched it in a crowded bar with no sound so I don't know what really happened. Was Bottas going to 2 stop without the SC?

2014 onwards Hamilton does like to win races as slowly as he can..
I'm not sure if Bottas was 2 stopping. Bottas had 3rd in the bag because Kimi had the penalty and Danny was on the SS and was stopping again.

I would have pitted Bottas again just to try something different against Vettel but Bottas never had the pace all weekend.
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2016: 24th place
2017: 4th place
2018: 12th place

Wins: Spain 2016, Canada 2017, Malaysia 2017
Podiums: 2nd Germany 2016, 3rd Mexico 2016, 3rd China 2018, 3rd Japan 2018, 2nd Mexico 2018

Fiki
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Re: 2017 Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice & Qualifying Threa

Post by Fiki »

Fiki wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Weather predicted:

Friday - Overcast
Saturday - Rain
Sunday - Heavy rain anticipated throughout the race

http://www.planetf1.com/news/spa-braced ... e-weekend/
So Friday will be useless for practice because it will be dry, and Saturday practice will be useful only if the rain falls for FP3.

Spa with rain is a very dangerous combination. I hope we will not remember it by some other things except for the race itself.
That's not quite the forecast I read on the official Belgian weather service page. It would be fantastic if they could already predict rain throughout the race, when time after time we've seen predictions during the races end up wrong. I'm not saying it won't rain on Sunday, but it seems tomorrow risks being worse. Then again, this is Francorchamps we are talking about. Its microclimate will probably turn out blazing sunshine all weekend... (No, unlikely. But let's keep our fingers crossed, I don't know whether the Raidillon grandstand is covered. :( )

http://www.meteo.be/meteo/view/en/65239-Home.html
So, the official Belgian Met Office's forecast was the one to take seriously. Not that I did; I forgot my rain jacket in the car on Friday. Luckily, by the time we left the track, the weather was fine again. Which probably contributed to me forgetting it again the next day... :D

But seriously, having been involved with the weather briefing in my unit for more than 25 years, I know it's unwise to look much further than a day or two for detailed forecasts.
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi

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