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Fiki wrote:

SmoothRide wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:First you push the driver out, and than you tell him to undertake the suction of certain body parts. I am not impressed with that. Magnussen should not be proud of it.

That didn't paint Mag in a good light at all.

He should be summoned to Paris, to explain why he uses such language. Children watch F1, and they should never be subjected to such talk.

good grief.

Fiki wrote:

mcdo wrote:

Fiki wrote:

mcdo wrote: Magnussen was completely in the wrong on track. But the interview comment was hilarious and I'm glad he said it. Hulk's comment towards him was hilarious as well. Fewer corporate robots, more personalities!

This is one I'm going to have to try to remember. Politeness is now dumped in the category of corporate robotica...

Have you ever seen this? It shows that even in this day and age, being polite has not totally been forgotten.

I've seen many variations of the theme

That moment was funny. People are talking about it because it was funny. Have you seen Brundle on Twitter saying that Alonso on the deck chair under the podium yesterday was "sad"? And Jenson Button snapped back saying F1 takes itself too seriously? Well this is the same

The highlight of the FE finale was Sebastian Buemi walking up and down the pitlane attacking every driver he thought had wronged him. It was aggressive, it was rude and more than anything else it was very very funny

No, I'm not on Twitter (Trump being there is good enough reason to stay away, I would have thought). Clearly, we don't share the same sense of fun. Fine.

For what it's worth, I thought Alonso showed he can take a joke and share it. Good on him. As for foul language being "funny"... I can't see it as such. And while I agree that F1 takes itself too serious, he was one of those people who was usually thoughtful enough to use polite language. And that has nothing to do with corporote robotics.

I've learned not to instill my beliefs of 'right' & 'wrong' on people. Why is using a certain word, or words, wrong?

His interview was gatecrashed by someone trying to belittle him. There was no requirement for him to be polite. I can get offended at how easily offended people are, it doesn't give me the right to expect them to stop being offended.

Fastest lap set by a driver during the race:

DRIVER TEAM TIME LAP DIFFERENCE
1. ES Fernando Alonso McLaren 1:20.182 69
2. FI Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari 1:20.461 70 +0.279
3. NL Max Verstappen Red Bull Racing 1:20.490 44 +0.308
4. DE Sebastian Vettel Ferrari 1:20.807 69 +0.625
5. GB Lewis Hamilton Mercedes 1:20.818 66 +0.636
6. FI Valtteri Bottas Mercedes 1:21.214 68 +1.032
7. GB Jolyon Palmer Renault 1:21.589 68 +1.407
8. DE Nico Hülkenberg Renault 1:21.611 61 +1.429
9. RU Daniil Kvyat Toro Rosso 1:21.631 42 +1.449
10. SE Marcus Ericsson Sauber 1:21.752 66 +1.570
11. ES Carlos Sainz jr Toro Rosso 1:21.871 67 +1.689
12. BE Stoffel Vandoorne McLaren 1:21.960 44 +1.778
13. DK Kevin Magnussen Haas F1 1:22.100 67 +1.918
14. MX Sergio Perez Force India 1:22.105 68 +1.923
15. FR Esteban Ocon Force India 1:22.431 60 +2.249
16. CA Lance Stroll Williams 1:22.830 53 +2.648
17. GB Paul di Resta Williams 1:23.242 49 +3.060
18. DE Pascal Wehrlein Sauber 1:23.573 50 +3.391
19. FR Romain Grosjean Haas F1 1:24.702 19 +4.520

Surprised how slow Max's fastest lap was considering he had 10-12 lap fresher tyres than the leaders and clean air. Alonso's lap is incredible though, although he clearly "double deployed" and treated it like a qualifying lap with battery discharge etc.

It's just numbers really. There's more to a race than going for fastest laps. I guess you have to be a driver to explain how it is the way it is. Teams will discuss this data afterwards and look and the times in the different sectors on the track.

Fast lap times are great but often don't mean that much. Vettel won the race, his fasted lap time is below Max'

Alonso is above everyone else with his fastest lap and comes in 6th (an excellent performance) but it doesn't tell the whole story I guess.

pokerman wrote:As a Hamilton fan it's frustrating that even when he is quicker clearly team orders are not going to favour him so now he races at a disadvantage to Vettel going forward.

What a myth!

But in any case, there`s nothing to be frustrated about when you consider that even when Hamilton has had a bad bay, quite often Bothas has been there to limit the damage done to Hamilton by taking away the win from Vettel in 2 occasions, 14 points, and quite possibly helping swing another 14 (-7 into + 7) points Hamilton's way in Spain... something that Kimi has hardly been able to do in Vettel`s favor.

Basically, Hamilton has already benefited from Bothas on a "mythical" equal status, far more than Vettel has benefited from Kimi on a presumed Nr2 status, therefore its Vettel fans the ones that should be frustrated when it comes to what driver policy or which team mate can have a bigger impact and influence over the title challenge, not the other way around.

Hamilton has had marginally a faster car in comparison with Vettel and most likely will continues to have that slight car advantage, Bothas has actually helped him keep the gap to Vettel as close as it is, a lot more than what Kimi may have done for Vettel to increase the gap to Hamilton... disadvantages for Hamilton? No way mate.

A few times on that list seem unusually high. 10th fastest from Ericsson in a Sauber. But yes, it was right towards the end of the race on new tyres with a low fuel load. Still not bad though for a car with a rubbish chassis and year old engine. But what sort of strategy were they doing with him?? 62 laps of softs? Huge risk that just didn't work. Wehrlein is lucky that the risk they took with him in Spain worked out well. Their strategies sometimes just don't work like with Wehrlein last race.

Palmer not too bad either in 7th.
Alonso in P1 is certainly quite impressive. But I think it is much more to do with the car than his driving. As the car has been so much slower at other tracks, it either means the car is usually bad or he is often poor. So I think it is much more to do with how good the McLaren chassis than him suddenly becoming amazing. One reason why I think the quantity of DOTW votes towards him is just a few to many.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:A few times on that list seem unusually high. 10th fastest from Ericsson in a Sauber. But yes, it was right towards the end of the race on new tyres with a low fuel load. Still not bad though for a car with a rubbish chassis and year old engine. But what sort of strategy were they doing with him?? 62 laps of softs? Huge risk that just didn't work. Wehrlein is lucky that the risk they took with him in Spain worked out well. Their strategies sometimes just don't work like with Wehrlein last race.

Palmer not too bad either in 7th.
Alonso in P1 is certainly quite impressive. But I think it is much more to do with the car than his driving. As the car has been so much slower at other tracks, it either means the car is usually bad or he is often poor. So I think it is much more to do with how good the McLaren chassis than him suddenly becoming amazing. One reason why I think the quantity of DOTW votes towards him is just a few to many.

Alonso is one of two drivers in the race that got the best possible result.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:...
Alonso in P1 is certainly quite impressive. But I think it is much more to do with the car than his driving. As the car has been so much slower at other tracks, it either means the car is usually bad or he is often poor. So I think it is much more to do with how good the McLaren chassis than him suddenly becoming amazing. One reason why I think the quantity of DOTW votes towards him is just a few to many.

1.778 sec faster than his team mate's fastest lap on an 80 second lap. I'm sure there are mitigating circumstances in the comparison with Vandoorne but I'm not sure they can account for all of that

While watching the race I kept thinking of Boutson & Senna in 1990 & how Thierry held him at bay for the whole race.
I know Kimi didn't didn't have a serious go at Seb but I'm sure lewis was giving his all to pass Kimi.
I think it might have helped Kimi getting DRS a lot of the time behind Seb.

Let bygones be bygones:

I was just thinking, knowing Vettel had a problem and was running a pace at least 0.5-1.0 second slower than possible. Why didn't Mercedes two stop one of there cars and have a car on a new SS tyre at the end vs an old soft tyre on the Ferrari. This would have given them a good chance to win the the race, they would have had over two seconds a lap advantage in the tyre alone + Vettels issue given at least another 0.5 on that.

I watched the 2014 race last week and Rosberg did exactly this and took 13 laps to close down 30+ seconds on the leaders (including Hamilton) who were on old worn tyres. Surely it was worth a try? They would have had to overtake Verstappen but they would have a new SS vs Verstappen on about 10 lap old softs so would have had around 1.5 second advantage in the tyre as well as some more time in the car. Once Max was cleared it would be clean air until they caught the other Mercedes which would let them through, giving them 5-6 laps to attack the Ferrari' who probably at this point would have let Kimi into the lead which may have meant Kimi would have won, but Mercedes had a good chance at 2nd or at least force Ferrari to let Kimi win.

They must have been considering this tactic, its a no brainer if Verstappen wasn't there - he would be the hardest part of the plan as he had 10 lap fresher tyres than the Ferrari guys and wasn't being held up.

Because the tyres don't degrade to the same extent this year.

Even with fresher rubber Rosberg wasn't able to overtake his team-mate on worn tyres.

GingerFurball wrote:Because the tyres don't degrade to the same extent this year.

Even with fresher rubber Rosberg wasn't able to overtake his team-mate on worn tyres.

The only reason Rosberg didn't overtake Hamilton was because he caught him on the very last lap and Hamilton forced him off road. He had the speed to easily pass as Ricciardo did a few laps before having less than half the speed advantage of Nico. If Mercedes had pitted Rosberg 2-3 laps earlier, he would have finished 2nd that race.

The tyres didn't wear down as much this year correct, but they did have quite significant wear and the major attribute at play was Vettel being so slow that would have given a big advantage to a SS shod Mercedes in clean air.

Vettel had 37 lap old tyres on at the end of the race. If Mercedes switched to SS with 20 laps to go, they would have a tyre advantage worth 0.7 per lap + life advantage of 17 laps + whatever Vettel was losing per lap due to his issue. Net result, being 2+ seconds per lap quicker than Vettel.

lamo wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:Because the tyres don't degrade to the same extent this year.

Even with fresher rubber Rosberg wasn't able to overtake his team-mate on worn tyres.

The only reason Rosberg didn't overtake Hamilton was because he caught him on the very last lap and Hamilton forced him off road. He had the speed to easily pass as Ricciardo did a few laps before having less than half the speed advantage of Nico. If Mercedes had pitted Rosberg 2-3 laps earlier, he would have finished 2nd that race.

The tyres didn't wear down as much this year correct, but they did have quite significant wear and the major attribute at play was Vettel being so slow that would have given a big advantage to a SS shod Mercedes in clean air.

Vettel had 37 lap old tyres on at the end of the race. If Mercedes switched to SS with 20 laps to go, they would have a tyre advantage worth 0.7 per lap + life advantage of 17 laps + whatever Vettel was losing per lap due to his issue. Net result, being 2+ seconds per lap quicker than Vettel.

This is '17 not '14 also no tyre advantage lets you breeze past, Hamilton made no impression on Raikkonen don't think he had DRS at any point.

lamo wrote:I was just thinking, knowing Vettel had a problem and was running a pace at least 0.5-1.0 second slower than possible. Why didn't Mercedes two stop one of there cars and have a car on a new SS tyre at the end vs an old soft tyre on the Ferrari. This would have given them a good chance to win the the race, they would have had over two seconds a lap advantage in the tyre alone + Vettels issue given at least another 0.5 on that.

I watched the 2014 race last week and Rosberg did exactly this and took 13 laps to close down 30+ seconds on the leaders (including Hamilton) who were on old worn tyres. Surely it was worth a try? They would have had to overtake Verstappen but they would have a new SS vs Verstappen on about 10 lap old softs so would have had around 1.5 second advantage in the tyre as well as some more time in the car. Once Max was cleared it would be clean air until they caught the other Mercedes which would let them through, giving them 5-6 laps to attack the Ferrari' who probably at this point would have let Kimi into the lead which may have meant Kimi would have won, but Mercedes had a good chance at 2nd or at least force Ferrari to let Kimi win.

They must have been considering this tactic, its a no brainer if Verstappen wasn't there - he would be the hardest part of the plan as he had 10 lap fresher tyres than the Ferrari guys and wasn't being held up.

I dont think that Vettel was going more than half-a-seconds slower than he could have done otherwise if he had no issues. And also, probably it was more a case of leaving 0.5 seconds per lap on the table due to precautionary measures and not the sort of failure that permanently cost him 0.5 or 1 seconds per lap... meaning, he could have taken a few more risks and upped his tempo a bit if his win was on the line (and he did do that in few occasions I believe when Kimi got in DRS range).

Nevertheless, you still make a good point... better tire type advantage + fresher tire advantage + some handicap on Vettel's steering wheels still stands, in hindsight, with 20 laps to go it would have been worth trying.

Rockie wrote:

lamo wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:Because the tyres don't degrade to the same extent this year.

Even with fresher rubber Rosberg wasn't able to overtake his team-mate on worn tyres.

The only reason Rosberg didn't overtake Hamilton was because he caught him on the very last lap and Hamilton forced him off road. He had the speed to easily pass as Ricciardo did a few laps before having less than half the speed advantage of Nico. If Mercedes had pitted Rosberg 2-3 laps earlier, he would have finished 2nd that race.

The tyres didn't wear down as much this year correct, but they did have quite significant wear and the major attribute at play was Vettel being so slow that would have given a big advantage to a SS shod Mercedes in clean air.

Vettel had 37 lap old tyres on at the end of the race. If Mercedes switched to SS with 20 laps to go, they would have a tyre advantage worth 0.7 per lap + life advantage of 17 laps + whatever Vettel was losing per lap due to his issue. Net result, being 2+ seconds per lap quicker than Vettel.

This is '17 not '14 also no tyre advantage lets you breeze past, Hamilton made no impression on Raikkonen don't think he had DRS at any point.

Hungary had the largest delta between tyres we have had all season, 0.7 per lap. It also had reasonable degradation.

Hamilton on the same compound as Raikkonen and 2 lap older tyres is not the same as Hamilton on 17 lap fresher tyres and a compound softer which gave 0.7 per lap in itself. Hamilton had DRS on Raikkonen at least 3 times too.

Do you remember Spain this year? Hamilton made no impression on Vettel when on the same tyre...then what happened?

Migen wrote:

lamo wrote:I was just thinking, knowing Vettel had a problem and was running a pace at least 0.5-1.0 second slower than possible. Why didn't Mercedes two stop one of there cars and have a car on a new SS tyre at the end vs an old soft tyre on the Ferrari. This would have given them a good chance to win the the race, they would have had over two seconds a lap advantage in the tyre alone + Vettels issue given at least another 0.5 on that.

I watched the 2014 race last week and Rosberg did exactly this and took 13 laps to close down 30+ seconds on the leaders (including Hamilton) who were on old worn tyres. Surely it was worth a try? They would have had to overtake Verstappen but they would have a new SS vs Verstappen on about 10 lap old softs so would have had around 1.5 second advantage in the tyre as well as some more time in the car. Once Max was cleared it would be clean air until they caught the other Mercedes which would let them through, giving them 5-6 laps to attack the Ferrari' who probably at this point would have let Kimi into the lead which may have meant Kimi would have won, but Mercedes had a good chance at 2nd or at least force Ferrari to let Kimi win.

They must have been considering this tactic, its a no brainer if Verstappen wasn't there - he would be the hardest part of the plan as he had 10 lap fresher tyres than the Ferrari guys and wasn't being held up.

I dont think that Vettel was going more than half-a-seconds slower than he could have done otherwise if he had no issues. And also, probably it was more a case of leaving 0.5 seconds per lap on the table due to precautionary measures and not the sort of failure that permanently cost him 0.5 or 1 seconds per lap... meaning, he could have taken a few more risks and upped his tempo a bit if his win was on the line (and he did do that in few occasions I believe when Kimi got in DRS range).

Nevertheless, you still make a good point... better tire type advantage + fresher tire advantage + some handicap on Vettel's steering wheels still stands, in hindsight, with 20 laps to go it would have been worth trying.

Hindsight wasn't needed, it was something that was clear at the time. If Max wasn't there I have no doubt they would have tried it and with 1 out lap the Mercedes would have undercut the Ferrari already so they wouldn't be able to mirror it.

Its a shame Max was there as it would have been a very interesting finish indeed. I guess they deemed Max on a compound harder + 10 lap older tyres + slight Mercedes car advantage not a big enough margin. I estimate that advantage to be around 1.4-1.5 seconds which may not have been enough to pass in Hungary or even if it was it may have taken many laps by which point the strategy was killed.

lamo wrote:

Rockie wrote:

lamo wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:Because the tyres don't degrade to the same extent this year.

Even with fresher rubber Rosberg wasn't able to overtake his team-mate on worn tyres.

The only reason Rosberg didn't overtake Hamilton was because he caught him on the very last lap and Hamilton forced him off road. He had the speed to easily pass as Ricciardo did a few laps before having less than half the speed advantage of Nico. If Mercedes had pitted Rosberg 2-3 laps earlier, he would have finished 2nd that race.

The tyres didn't wear down as much this year correct, but they did have quite significant wear and the major attribute at play was Vettel being so slow that would have given a big advantage to a SS shod Mercedes in clean air.

Vettel had 37 lap old tyres on at the end of the race. If Mercedes switched to SS with 20 laps to go, they would have a tyre advantage worth 0.7 per lap + life advantage of 17 laps + whatever Vettel was losing per lap due to his issue. Net result, being 2+ seconds per lap quicker than Vettel.

This is '17 not '14 also no tyre advantage lets you breeze past, Hamilton made no impression on Raikkonen don't think he had DRS at any point.

Hungary had the largest delta between tyres we have had all season, 0.7 per lap. It also had reasonable degradation.

Hamilton on the same compound as Raikkonen and 2 lap older tyres is not the same as Hamilton on 17 lap fresher tyres and a compound softer which gave 0.7 per lap in itself. Hamilton had DRS on Raikkonen at least 3 times too.

Do you remember Spain this year? Hamilton made no impression on Vettel when on the same tyre...then what happened?

Are you really going to compare the two races, one where you can't overtake and one where the DRS was powerful.

Even if you are on 20 lap younger tyres, you have no chance in Hungary except the driver in front makes a mistake ala Sainz vs Alonso.

I was just setting you straight that tyre advantage does see cars breeze past, seems like you forgot Spain. Also pointing out that using the example of Hamilton making no impression on equal aged tyres of the same compound is of absolutely no relevance at all.

A powerful DRS in Spain? Spain is also considered a track you can not overtake on. That GP had the fewest overtakes of any race this season, until Hungary. Hamilton only had a slight tyre advantage that day, about 0.4. Hungary he would have been around 2 seconds per lap quicker than the Ferrari's. How many seconds per lap do you need to be to overtake in Hungary?

lamo wrote:I was just setting you straight that tyre advantage does see cars breeze past, seems like you forgot Spain. Also pointing out that using the example of Hamilton making no impression on equal aged tyres of the same compound is of absolutely no relevance at all.

A powerful DRS in Spain? Spain is also considered a track you can not overtake on. That GP had the fewest overtakes of any race this season, until Hungary. Hamilton only had a slight tyre advantage that day, about 0.4. Hungary he would have been around 2 seconds per lap quicker than the Ferrari's. How many seconds per lap do you need to be to overtake in Hungary?

Maybe watch the overtake again, as he blew past Vettel.

Yes we agree! That is my point, he couldn't even get DRS in Spain when they were on the same tyres. In fact Vettel pulled away.

You didn't answer, how many seconds per lap did you need to be in Hungary this year to overtake?

lamo wrote:Yes we agree! That is my point, he couldn't even get DRS in Spain when they were on the same tyres. In fact Vettel pulled away.

You didn't answer, how many seconds per lap did you need to be in Hungary this year to overtake?

Atleast 1.5secs to pass according to reports but you could not even get close to start with.

Rockie wrote:

lamo wrote:Yes we agree! That is my point, he couldn't even get DRS in Spain when they were on the same tyres. In fact Vettel pulled away.

You didn't answer, how many seconds per lap did you need to be in Hungary this year to overtake?

Atleast 1.5secs to pass according to reports but you could not even get close to start with.

Well that was my point, Hamilton would have easily be a lot more than 1.5 seconds quicker than Vettel and around that much quicker than Raikkonen and likely slightly more.

lamo wrote:

Rockie wrote:

lamo wrote:Yes we agree! That is my point, he couldn't even get DRS in Spain when they were on the same tyres. In fact Vettel pulled away.

You didn't answer, how many seconds per lap did you need to be in Hungary this year to overtake?

Atleast 1.5secs to pass according to reports but you could not even get close to start with.

Well that was my point, Hamilton would have easily be a lot more than 1.5 seconds quicker than Vettel and around that much quicker than Raikkonen and likely slightly more.

You are ignoring the fact he could not follow even when he caught up.

Are you back to comparing Hamilton being unable to follow Kimi on equal tyres and compound again? The discussion is about a car on a softer compound and 20 lap fresher tyres. Is it hard to understand that is not comparable to a car on equal life tyres and compound?

lamo wrote:Are you back to comparing Hamilton being unable to follow Kimi on equal tyres and compound again? The discussion is about a car on a softer compound and 20 lap fresher tyres. Is it hard to understand that is not comparable to a car on equal life tyres and compound?

It is when Hamilton is involved

lamo wrote:Are you back to comparing Hamilton being unable to follow Kimi on equal tyres and compound again? The discussion is about a car on a softer compound and 20 lap fresher tyres. Is it hard to understand that is not comparable to a car on equal life tyres and compound?

It's as if you don't understand dirty air the tyre compound or how fresh it is does not matter, once you get in the range you start sliding all over the place but let me leave you to your opinion.

This has nothing to do with Hamilton or any driver, Alonso got by Sainz because he made a mistake.

Rockie wrote:

lamo wrote:Are you back to comparing Hamilton being unable to follow Kimi on equal tyres and compound again? The discussion is about a car on a softer compound and 20 lap fresher tyres. Is it hard to understand that is not comparable to a car on equal life tyres and compound?

It's as if you don't understand dirty air the tyre compound or how fresh it is does not matter, once you get in the range you start sliding all over the place but let me leave you to your opinion.

This has nothing to do with Hamilton or any driver, Alonso got by Sainz because he made a mistake.

Yes I understand that entirely, that is why you needed to be 1.5 seconds per lap quicker to overtake to overcome the dirty air. I asked you how much quicker a car needed to be to overtake, you said 1.5 seconds... are you disagreeing with the figure you gave me now?

Verstappen33 wrote:I don't hold a grudge to any driver in F1. It feels like you have one with Max. It is possible of course that you like another driver better but it cloud your judgement.

I think it's pretty childish to assume someone only criticizes a driver because he likes "another driver better". You know, many of us are actually fans of F1 and not of a particular driver. Looking at your username, you obviously aren't in that category.