2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

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F1nut
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1nut »

Herb Tarlik wrote:Super soft tyres lasting 40+ laps is a joke.
:thumbup: :thumbup:

Warheart01

Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Warheart01 »

optimisteprime wrote:Really impressive drive from Vettel holding his nerve and keeping everyone behind him while having to steer left to go straight and having to nurse a wounded car for most of the race. Even kept his tyres in shape to pull out a little gap at the end.

Fair play to Hamilton and Mercedes for showing some integrity, I honestly didn't expect it from them based on past record but credit where it's due.

Great drive from Fernando, and fantastic to see the fastest lap and his fooling around after the race. We've missed out on so much by not having that guy at the front for so long.

Really disappointed for Red Bull. Looked like a stupid but honest mistake from Verstappen, I can't get my head around why he was penalised for it. Could have been a very different race without that.

Very enjoyable race overall. Hungaroring was always one of the worst tracks on the calendar but in recent years it has actually produced some great races. In the era of DRS a track where track position really means something is much appreciated, and in the era of uncompetitive hybrid engines, a track where the driver and chassis can come to the fore is much appreciated too.
Doesn't sound like it was much of an issue.

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Flash2k11
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Flash2k11 »

Warheart01 wrote:Couldn't watch the race. Was there teamorders to Bottas to let Hamilton pass?
Yes. Under the provision that if Hamilton couldn't get past Kimi that he would get the place back. Merc initially gave Hamilton a set number of laps to do this, and it looked like they had gone back on their word, especially once Max closed massively on Bottas, but Lewis slowed massively on the final lap and gave the place back to Bottas, seemingly off of his own back.
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wonder81
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by wonder81 »

Why didn't they leave Kimi out for the undercut?

Warheart01

Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Warheart01 »

Thanks for that Flash2k11. :thumbup:

Good gesture from Hamiltons side, that's some sportsmanship right there. Not often you see that in sports nowadays.
Although it would be the complete opposite if he and merc didn't keep true to their word.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1_Ernie »

wonder81 wrote:Why didn't they leave Kimi out for the undercut?
Because he was putting in purple sectors ;)
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DirtyMike
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by DirtyMike »

optimisteprime wrote:Really impressive drive from Vettel holding his nerve and keeping everyone behind him while having to steer left to go straight and having to nurse a wounded car for most of the race. Even kept his tyres in shape to pull out a little gap at the end.

Fair play to Hamilton and Mercedes for showing some integrity, I honestly didn't expect it from them based on past record but credit where it's due.

Great drive from Fernando, and fantastic to see the fastest lap and his fooling around after the race. We've missed out on so much by not having that guy at the front for so long.

Really disappointed for Red Bull. Looked like a stupid but honest mistake from Verstappen, I can't get my head around why he was penalised for it. Could have been a very different race without that.

Very enjoyable race overall. Hungaroring was always one of the worst tracks on the calendar but in recent years it has actually produced some great races. In the era of DRS a track where track position really means something is much appreciated, and in the era of uncompetitive hybrid engines, a track where the driver and chassis can come to the fore is much appreciated too.
Great post, but surely you understand that running into another car and them having to retire as a direct result warrants a driver penalty?
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rivf1
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by rivf1 »

I was giving it to mercedes earlier about the team orders, i am happy to man up and eat humble pie on that one. Respect to mercedes and lewis (especially given the WDC circumstances) for swapping the drivers back over :thumbup:

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Lt. Drebin
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Lt. Drebin »

Herb Tarlik wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Ferrari sacrifices everything for Vettel with a clear No. 1 and lapdog strategy. Mercedes on the other hand strategically pushes the slower driver ahead of their main championship candidate.

Advantage Vettel.
Are there people still under the illusion that Kimi will be allowed to race Vettel? Seriously?
Kimi admitted himself that he is not driving well several times this season. His results clearly put him off the hunt for the WDC title. On the other side, Vettel is leading the WDC from race one. It's an easy choice on whom to give best strategy. Kimi and only Kimi is responsible for his own current position due to string of not so good results in the first half of the season. Don't blame Ferrari.
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Migen
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Migen »

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Someone claiming that Räikkönen was allowed to challenge Vettel and just did not manage to - that is a whole new level of partisan spin doctorship surely ...

:lol: :lol: :lol:
as soon as i read that i knew who you meant. dont bother trying to argue with them cos i dont think they have ever agreed with anything on this forum. i could probably start praising vettel and ferrari and they would argue.

anyone with an ounce of common sense knows kimi had the pace to win because of vettels problem. if it was another driver ahead he would have had a real go. no guarantees but he was obviously and i mean obviously holding station. at least mercedes know how to run a team fairly, and hopefully a mercedes driver will beat vettel to the drivers and also win the constuctors. fair play to hamilton. did something Vettel wouldnt even dream of doing.
Anyone with an ounce of sense knows, that had Ferrari ordered Vettel to make way for Kimi, or had Ferrari fired Kimi up into trying and overtake Vettel on his own... it would have been the most stupid thing ever, considering that Kimi has not got any chance whatsoever to win the title this season.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Do hear arrogant Magnussen's response to Hulk after Hulk called him the most unsporting driver on the grid (rightfully so): He didn't have to go so low (pun intended)!
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Warheart01

Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Warheart01 »

^

Hahaha, wow. Did that just happen!?

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by coalblackmeadow »

UnlikeUday wrote:Do hear arrogant Magnussen's response to Hulk after Hulk called him the most unsporting driver on the grid (rightfully so): He didn't have to go so low (pun intended)!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

But was he really that unsportsmanlike? I mean, HAM did the same to ROS in 2014, IIRC.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

DirtyMike wrote:
optimisteprime wrote:Really impressive drive from Vettel holding his nerve and keeping everyone behind him while having to steer left to go straight and having to nurse a wounded car for most of the race. Even kept his tyres in shape to pull out a little gap at the end.

Fair play to Hamilton and Mercedes for showing some integrity, I honestly didn't expect it from them based on past record but credit where it's due.

Great drive from Fernando, and fantastic to see the fastest lap and his fooling around after the race. We've missed out on so much by not having that guy at the front for so long.

Really disappointed for Red Bull. Looked like a stupid but honest mistake from Verstappen, I can't get my head around why he was penalised for it. Could have been a very different race without that.

Very enjoyable race overall. Hungaroring was always one of the worst tracks on the calendar but in recent years it has actually produced some great races. In the era of DRS a track where track position really means something is much appreciated, and in the era of uncompetitive hybrid engines, a track where the driver and chassis can come to the fore is much appreciated too.
Great post, but surely you understand that running into another car and them having to retire as a direct result warrants a driver penalty?
I'm really surprised that people are surprised that Verstappen got a penalty :lol: . He was 100% responsible for his team mates retirement. He just carried too much speed and locked up. Yes, it wasn't intentional, but that is no reason for no penalty. Just compare this situation to Bottas and Hamilton in bahrain last year. Bottas braked too late and hit Hamilton. Bottas got no damage but Hamilton suffered a little, but he didn't retire. Bottas got a drive through penalty and 2 penalty points. Verstappen got a 10 second penalty and no penalty points (but he may get them later, I'm not sure). But which of these incidents had a worse impact? Clearly Verstappens and so far, his penalty wasn't that much. I would have said that should have been a drive through. But as the rules are less strict this year, maybe the 10 second one will be enough.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mash »

Lot of sportsmanship talk about Hamilton...
Why did he give back the place?..
If he keep the place will get 3 more points. But no more help from Bottas in remaining races

Now he is the icon of sportsmanship and can ask for Bottas help whenever it's required.

Masterstroke from Lewis. Really clever Lewis!!

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
DirtyMike wrote:
optimisteprime wrote:Really impressive drive from Vettel holding his nerve and keeping everyone behind him while having to steer left to go straight and having to nurse a wounded car for most of the race. Even kept his tyres in shape to pull out a little gap at the end.

Fair play to Hamilton and Mercedes for showing some integrity, I honestly didn't expect it from them based on past record but credit where it's due.

Great drive from Fernando, and fantastic to see the fastest lap and his fooling around after the race. We've missed out on so much by not having that guy at the front for so long.

Really disappointed for Red Bull. Looked like a stupid but honest mistake from Verstappen, I can't get my head around why he was penalised for it. Could have been a very different race without that.

Very enjoyable race overall. Hungaroring was always one of the worst tracks on the calendar but in recent years it has actually produced some great races. In the era of DRS a track where track position really means something is much appreciated, and in the era of uncompetitive hybrid engines, a track where the driver and chassis can come to the fore is much appreciated too.
Great post, but surely you understand that running into another car and them having to retire as a direct result warrants a driver penalty?
I'm really surprised that people are surprised that Verstappen got a penalty :lol: . He was 100% responsible for his team mates retirement. He just carried too much speed and locked up. Yes, it wasn't intentional, but that is no reason for no penalty. Just compare this situation to Bottas and Hamilton in bahrain last year. Bottas braked too late and hit Hamilton. Bottas got no damage but Hamilton suffered a little, but he didn't retire. Bottas got a drive through penalty and 2 penalty points. Verstappen got a 10 second penalty and no penalty points (but he may get them later, I'm not sure). But which of these incidents had a worse impact? Clearly Verstappens and so far, his penalty wasn't that much. I would have said that should have been a drive through. But as the rules are less strict this year, maybe the 10 second one will be enough.
He has got 2 penalty points for the crash.
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Caserole of Nonsense
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Caserole of Nonsense »

Migen wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Someone claiming that Räikkönen was allowed to challenge Vettel and just did not manage to - that is a whole new level of partisan spin doctorship surely ...

:lol: :lol: :lol:
as soon as i read that i knew who you meant. dont bother trying to argue with them cos i dont think they have ever agreed with anything on this forum. i could probably start praising vettel and ferrari and they would argue.

anyone with an ounce of common sense knows kimi had the pace to win because of vettels problem. if it was another driver ahead he would have had a real go. no guarantees but he was obviously and i mean obviously holding station. at least mercedes know how to run a team fairly, and hopefully a mercedes driver will beat vettel to the drivers and also win the constuctors. fair play to hamilton. did something Vettel wouldnt even dream of doing.
Anyone with an ounce of sense knows, that had Ferrari ordered Vettel to make way for Kimi, or had Ferrari fired Kimi up into trying and overtake Vettel on his own... it would have been the most stupid thing ever, considering that Kimi has not got any chance whatsoever to win the title this season.
only half the season gone. kimi wiped out by bottas twice. could have another 35 points easy. plus should really have won in monaco and here so could have 50 more points and he wouldnt be far off. and thats driving poorly!? who knows what will happen in the next half. vettel may have 4 or 5 dnfs and kimi win a few races and it could be tight. fact is nobody knows. but ferrari picked their man far too early and for that reason they lose all my respect. merc r a credit to f1 unlike ferrari.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

Warheart01 wrote:^

Hahaha, wow. Did that just happen!?
I wonder if it could attract some more trouble from him?
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Warheart01

Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Warheart01 »

Most likely yes! I can't see Haas liking that sort of talk from him, not good PR.

That kind of talk might be over the edge, but I like when drivers show some personality both good and bad.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by optimisteprime »

DirtyMike wrote: Great post, but surely you understand that running into another car and them having to retire as a direct result warrants a driver penalty?
It was the first lap, he wasn't trying to overtake, he wasn't trying to squeeze Ricciardo, in fact the line he was trying to take would have left Daniel plenty of space, but he simply locked up and when he lost grip the space he slid into happened to contain Ricciardo. Surely that's the very definition of a racing incident.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Fiki »

Lt. Drebin wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Ferrari sacrifices everything for Vettel with a clear No. 1 and lapdog strategy. Mercedes on the other hand strategically pushes the slower driver ahead of their main championship candidate.

Advantage Vettel.
Are there people still under the illusion that Kimi will be allowed to race Vettel? Seriously?
Kimi admitted himself that he is not driving well several times this season. His results clearly put him off the hunt for the WDC title. On the other side, Vettel is leading the WDC from race one. It's an easy choice on whom to give best strategy. Kimi and only Kimi is responsible for his own current position due to string of not so good results in the first half of the season. Don't blame Ferrari.
Pull the other one, Lt... No, the other one!
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Black_Flag_11
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Magnussen :lol: what a legend.

Kinda wish I hadn't already voted in the DOTD poll after that.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by funkymonkey »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Magnussen :lol: what a legend.

Kinda wish I hadn't already voted in the DOTD poll after that.
Its driver of the day, not potty mouth of the day poll :lol:

Kevin did play bad on the track. So yeah, there is that as well.

Prema
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Prema »

funkymonkey wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
mds wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote: Well, either you are against TO, then Mercedes is to be applauded for their sportsmanship today and Ferrari crucified for their TO.
What Ferrari TO?
Well, denying that Räikkönen was not allowed to attack and overtake Vettel today is surely bringing partisan spin-doctor-ship to a whole new level.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
8)
It wouldnt have been easy to attack without risking contact even on the crippled Vettel.

If you wanted Ferrari to tell Vettel to let Kimi pass, then you are incredibly blinded and naive. That was never going to happen in million years. Not because its Kimi or Vettel but the end result for the team. If there was a car that could have defended against Mercedes successfully, it was Kimi's and it showed in the end. Hamilton wasnt able to attack him and get to wheel to wheel racing even with DRS.

Just shows Ferrari did exactly what they needed to do. They wanted win, they wanted 1-2 and only way to achieve it was to ensure your 2 drivers dont bang wheels with each other and a faster car in better conditions defends against a fast Mercedes.
Ferrari would have lost massively had they let kimi pass, They would have potentially lost 1-2 and potentially one podium as well.

Ferrari's refusal to use TO to let kimi past actually got them 1-2 and their championship contender got maximum points. Its job perfectly dont by the team and its drivers. And for that they need to be praised.
Yup, but it ain't making some folks any happy anyway. They perhaps dreamed about seeing some other scenarios and now they apparently can't stop lol-ing themselves.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by funkymonkey »

optimisteprime wrote:
DirtyMike wrote: Great post, but surely you understand that running into another car and them having to retire as a direct result warrants a driver penalty?
It was the first lap, he wasn't trying to overtake, he wasn't trying to squeeze Ricciardo, in fact the line he was trying to take would have left Daniel plenty of space, but he simply locked up and when he lost grip the space he slid into happened to contain Ricciardo. Surely that's the very definition of a racing incident.
It was well deserved penalty. He lost positions by having car in wrong place on the wrong line. And then braked too late carrying too much speed which caused lockup. His fault. If it results in someone else getting hit and having to retire, he will get penalty which he did. Completely justified. He has gotten away with these things in past when it caused minor off for other drivers or mild contact. This resulted in retirement of another driver. Does not matter if its his team mate. He got punished justly.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by optimisteprime »

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Migen wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Someone claiming that Räikkönen was allowed to challenge Vettel and just did not manage to - that is a whole new level of partisan spin doctorship surely ...

:lol: :lol: :lol:
as soon as i read that i knew who you meant. dont bother trying to argue with them cos i dont think they have ever agreed with anything on this forum. i could probably start praising vettel and ferrari and they would argue.

anyone with an ounce of common sense knows kimi had the pace to win because of vettels problem. if it was another driver ahead he would have had a real go. no guarantees but he was obviously and i mean obviously holding station. at least mercedes know how to run a team fairly, and hopefully a mercedes driver will beat vettel to the drivers and also win the constuctors. fair play to hamilton. did something Vettel wouldnt even dream of doing.
Anyone with an ounce of sense knows, that had Ferrari ordered Vettel to make way for Kimi, or had Ferrari fired Kimi up into trying and overtake Vettel on his own... it would have been the most stupid thing ever, considering that Kimi has not got any chance whatsoever to win the title this season.

only half the season gone. kimi wiped out by bottas twice. could have another 35 points easy. plus should really have won in monaco and here so could have 50 more points and he wouldnt be far off. and thats driving poorly!? who knows what will happen in the next half. vettel may have 4 or 5 dnfs and kimi win a few races and it could be tight. fact is nobody knows. but ferrari picked their man far too early and for that reason they lose all my respect. merc r a credit to f1 unlike ferrari.
It's amazing the media propoganda people will swallow.

Ferrari did not use team orders in Monaco. Vettel beat Kimi fair and square by putting in supremely fast laps as soon as he had some clean air. The media turned it into a favouritism story by making up scenarios where Ferrari should have purposely gimped Vettel's strategy to keep him behind Kimi. All evidence showed that Vettel had so much raw pace that there was pretty much no strategy that would have kept Kimi ahead, without some extreme attempts from the team at fixing the race in Raikkonen's favour.

Ferrari did not use team orders today. Vettel outqualified Kimi and was running ahead of him. Kimi couldn't overtake. Kimi only had the speed to keep up with Vettel because Vettel was nursing a problem. Nobody was able to overtake Kimi, proving that the speed Vettel, and by extension Kimi, was going at, was enough to successfully defend your position. Once again the media decried Ferrari's actual lack of team orders (to swap the cars in favour of Kimi) as team orders.

At both Monaco and China, Vettel was behind Kimi and raced hard and beat him. Today, Vettel was ahead of Kimi, suffered a problem, but kept his cool and kept Kimi behind him. On none of those occasions did the team tell Kimi to move over or tell Kimi to not race. Vettel beat Kimi every time, off his own back, and the media have managed to twist the situation into something it isn't.

In every other race Kimi has been well behind Vettel so it hasn't come into it.

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Black_Flag_11
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Just saw a video of Ricciardo sticking his middle finger up to Verstappen as he was walking by the side of the track and Verstappen drove past under safety car. It's like Formula E today :lol:
Last edited by Black_Flag_11 on Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Prema
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Prema »

Caserole of Nonsense wrote: only half the season gone. kimi wiped out by bottas twice. could have another 35 points easy. plus should really have won in monaco and here so could have 50 more points and he wouldnt be far off. and thats driving poorly!? who knows what will happen in the next half. vettel may have 4 or 5 dnfs and kimi win a few races and it could be tight. fact is nobody knows. but ferrari picked their man far too early and for that reason they lose all my respect. merc r a credit to f1 unlike ferrari.
Oh sure, Vettel, Hamilton, Bottas, Ricciardo keep having a bunch of DNFs in the second part, and there comes Kimi...
Bad Ferrari, damn them for "picking" their front runner that early in the season, fact is nobody knows. :frown:

Migen
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Migen »

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Migen wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Someone claiming that Räikkönen was allowed to challenge Vettel and just did not manage to - that is a whole new level of partisan spin doctorship surely ...

:lol: :lol: :lol:
as soon as i read that i knew who you meant. dont bother trying to argue with them cos i dont think they have ever agreed with anything on this forum. i could probably start praising vettel and ferrari and they would argue.

anyone with an ounce of common sense knows kimi had the pace to win because of vettels problem. if it was another driver ahead he would have had a real go. no guarantees but he was obviously and i mean obviously holding station. at least mercedes know how to run a team fairly, and hopefully a mercedes driver will beat vettel to the drivers and also win the constuctors. fair play to hamilton. did something Vettel wouldnt even dream of doing.
Anyone with an ounce of sense knows, that had Ferrari ordered Vettel to make way for Kimi, or had Ferrari fired Kimi up into trying and overtake Vettel on his own... it would have been the most stupid thing ever, considering that Kimi has not got any chance whatsoever to win the title this season.
only half the season gone. kimi wiped out by bottas twice. could have another 35 points easy. plus should really have won in monaco and here so could have 50 more points and he wouldnt be far off. and thats driving poorly!? who knows what will happen in the next half. vettel may have 4 or 5 dnfs and kimi win a few races and it could be tight. fact is nobody knows. but ferrari picked their man far too early and for that reason they lose all my respect. merc r a credit to f1 unlike ferrari.
I never said that Kimi is driving poorly. Your "if"s (your arguments) dont make much sense in fact.

Barring any dinosaur eating all the 3 drivers currently leading scenarios, there must be some good reasons why Vettel was quoted 3/2 to win the title even prior to this last race (now he`s at 6/5), whilst Kimi was and still is at 1000/1
Thats the "realistic" chance Kimi was given to win the title by sport specialists, 1 in a thousand... sure... call that "nobody knows" as much as you like.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

All this pans out so well for the summer break.

Bottas & Raikkonen both retain their seats for 2018.
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by pokerman »

Blake wrote:
mcdo wrote:
afterburner wrote:Only interesting thing will be to see what excuse Hamilton comes up with to not give Bottas back the place.
His radio will have stopped working again ;)
:thumbup:
No that would be a big :thumbdown:

Now how unbiased does a poster think he is with such negative comments, this being different from merely taking heed at Hamilton fans themselves, Hamilton showed a bit of class today.
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F1nut
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1nut »

(As noted earlier, I was AFK during the race, but have finally made it completely thru today's comments - here's mine)

On Sun May 28, 2017 8:07 am, back in the Monoco GP thread on p7, I noted, opined and made this comment which applies to all of those I have quoted below.........

"One wonders whether Ferrari has missed a golden opportunity to have Ferrari drivers finish 1/2 in the drivers championship "and" win the constructors title in 2017."

I think we see the shortsighted nature of Ferrari again today - as Vettle should have been willing to show the "class" Hamilton showed today and allowed Kimi to finish P1 for not only the protection he was provided by Kimi from Hamilton today, (as there was no danger of him losing P2 in the latter stages of the race) but also for the humiliating way Ferrari as a team have treated Kimi as an un-equal and un-appreciated "team" driver. Vettle would have still retained the lead in the championship, putting Ferrari closer to the goal they should have had since the beginning of the season.


I really wish Ferrari would learn to use their collective heads for something other than a "hat-rack" and end the Mercedes dominance that has somewhat stifled F1 competition these past years, by winning both the WDC and the WCC this year.....
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:Raikkonen must earn his salary today, and be useful to Ferrari for ONCE.
:thumbdown:
pokerman wrote:Whilst Kimi is Vettel's bitch not being allowed to pass him.
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:Vettel - Raikkonen - Hamilton. Vettel gains 10 points.
Raikkonen passes him, at best Vettel gains 3 points on Hamilton by staying ahead, worse case, he goes behind. It's simple maths really, keep up.
funkymonkey wrote:At Ferrari, its purely on performance. Kimi did too badly initially to be in contention. Mercedes played clear card today. Lets see how this plays out.
Bottas is still in championship, Kimi isnt.
:thumbdown: - all thanks to shortsighted Ferrari...
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
zaar wrote:Two fins thrown under the bus by their teams. Finally it's clear, that there clear number ones in both teams.
Not surprised with Kimi given how far back he is in the championship. I would be surprised by Mercedes if they didn't give the place back to Bottas as agreed though, given he is in the championship fight points wise.
Sounds like Mercedes and Hamilton are prepared to honour the agreement on the radio though.
He wouldn't be that far back IF the team made wiser decisions in earlier races this year.
Ennis wrote:Sigh.
We're going to go through all this again, with a complete lack of logic on both sides.
Neither team has yet been in a position where they've had to use clear team orders which don't make sense from a team POV. On a hunch, I think Ferrari would be more likely to do so but that's partly due to gap between their drivers rather than them being evil.
Either way, both have made decisions favoring a driver but also the team. That's it.
They have clearly shown they "are" favoring Vettle over the team and tossing away their chances to win BOTH championships WDC & WCC.
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Ferrari sacrifices everything for Vettel with a clear No. 1 and lapdog strategy. Mercedes on the other hand strategically pushes the slower driver ahead of their main championship candidate.
Advantage Vettel.
Actually "Hamilton" today chose "team" over his own ego - something Vettle could learn from....., hard for me to say as I'm not a Hamilton fan......
Herb Tarlik wrote:Are there people still under the illusion that Kimi will be allowed to race Vettel? Seriously?
Shortsighted view on Ferrari's part IMHO.
Blake wrote:As it turned out Ferrari sacrificed nothing and the results show it. Our telecast crew is applauding Ferrari for their strategy. They got a 1-2 finish and maximized points in both Championships... EXACTLY what they needed.
Nope, because they once again chose Vettle over Kimi at a point in the season where they could have help'd the team.
F1_Ernie wrote:Wasn't Kimi putting in purple sectors before he pitted? Didn't Kimi say he could of stayed out longer? Not like he has any options lol
:thumbup:
F1Tyrant wrote:The broader point is Ferrari don't need TO because Raikkonen can rarely challenge Vettel. Keeping him on will always be sacrificing WCC for WDC.
Kimi is a World Champion F1 driver and still an asset to the Ferrari Team and had they not screw'd him over repeatedly this season, he would be right there competing for the WDC with Vettle, Hamy and Botas....., and they'd be closer to Mercedes in the WCC points than they are today.
Mercedes-Benz wrote:Kimi was robbed at Monaco and here he was unlucky to miss out on a win. Mercedes is very professional team unlike Ferrari. They will win both the titles this year again I am sure. Hamilton did a great thing. Bottas will help him to win the title
:thumbup: - although my heart says it's Vettle.
funkymonkey wrote:It wouldnt have been easy to attack without risking contact even on the crippled Vettel.
If you wanted Ferrari to tell Vettel to let Kimi pass, then you are incredibly blinded and naive. That was never going to happen in million years. Not because its Kimi or Vettel but the end result for the team. If there was a car that could have defended against Mercedes successfully, it was Kimi's and it showed in the end. Hamilton wasnt able to attack him and get to wheel to wheel racing even with DRS.
Just shows Ferrari did exactly what they needed to do. They wanted win, they wanted 1-2 and only way to achieve it was to ensure your 2 drivers dont bang wheels with each other and a faster car in better conditions defends against a fast Mercedes.
Ferrari would have lost massively had they let kimi pass, They would have potentially lost 1-2 and potentially one podium as well.
Ferrari's refusal to use TO to let kimi past actually got them 1-2 and their championship contender got maximum points. Its job perfectly dont by the team and its drivers. And for that they need to be praised.
Here again, bad decision from Ferrari - Kimi did his part and protected Vettle - they should have swapped positions in order to increase "team" unity and Vettle, should take a long hard look at the classy choice Hamilton made vs the "selfish" one of his own.
F1_Ernie wrote:
wonder81 wrote:Why didn't they leave Kimi out for the undercut?
Because he was putting in purple sectors ;)
:thumbup: - same as I noted back in May@ Monoco....
Lt. Drebin wrote:Are there people still under the illusion that Kimi will be allowed to race Vettel? Seriously?
Kimi admitted himself that he is not driving well several times this season. His results clearly put him off the hunt for the WDC title. On the other side, Vettel is leading the WDC from race one. It's an easy choice on whom to give best strategy. Kimi and only Kimi is responsible for his own current position due to string of not so good results in the first half of the season. Don't blame Ferrari.[/quote]
:thumbdown: a horsemanure opinion, which thankfully you are entitled to......
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Migen wrote:
Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Someone claiming that Räikkönen was allowed to challenge Vettel and just did not manage to - that is a whole new level of partisan spin doctorship surely ...

:lol: :lol: :lol:
as soon as i read that i knew who you meant. dont bother trying to argue with them cos i dont think they have ever agreed with anything on this forum. i could probably start praising vettel and ferrari and they would argue.
anyone with an ounce of common sense knows kimi had the pace to win because of vettels problem. if it was another driver ahead he would have had a real go. no guarantees but he was obviously and i mean obviously holding station. at least mercedes know how to run a team fairly, and hopefully a mercedes driver will beat vettel to the drivers and also win the constuctors. fair play to hamilton. did something Vettel wouldnt even dream of doing.
Anyone with an ounce of sense knows, that had Ferrari ordered Vettel to make way for Kimi, or had Ferrari fired Kimi up into trying and overtake Vettel on his own... it would have been the most stupid thing ever, considering that Kimi has not got any chance whatsoever to win the title this season.
only half the season gone. kimi wiped out by bottas twice. could have another 35 points easy. plus should really have won in monaco and here so could have 50 more points and he wouldnt be far off. and thats driving poorly!? who knows what will happen in the next half. vettel may have 4 or 5 dnfs and kimi win a few races and it could be tight. fact is nobody knows. but ferrari picked their man far too early and for that reason they lose all my respect. merc r a credit to f1 unlike ferrari.
YES, :thumbup:
Last edited by F1nut on Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Sharknose
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Sharknose »

F1nut wrote:Kimi is a World Champion F1 driver and still an asset to the Ferrari Team and had they not screw'd him over repeatedly thisl season, he would be right there competing for the WDC with Vettle, Hamy and Botas....., and they'd be closer to Mercedes in the WCC points than they are today.
This is simply deluded. Even if Ferrari had used team orders to let Raikkonen win in Monaco and Hungary - the only occassions they had the opportunity because everywhere else he was too far behind - he'd have 14 points more and Vettel 14 less. He'd still in no way be in contention for the WDC. WCC points would be exactly the same as they are.

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Lt. Drebin
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Lt. Drebin »

F1nut wrote:Kimi admitted himself that he is not driving well several times this season. His results clearly put him off the hunt for the WDC title. On the other side, Vettel is leading the WDC from race one. It's an easy choice on whom to give best strategy. Kimi and only Kimi is responsible for his own current position due to string of not so good results in the first half of the season. Don't blame Ferrari.
Lt. Drebin wrote:
:thumbdown: a horsemanure opinion, which thankfully you are entitled to......
Fiki wrote:Pull the other one, Lt... No, the other one!
F1nut and Fik, I stated facts and arguments, you stated insults. What did I write that is not true?
The end is near

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Blake
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Blake »

pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
mcdo wrote:
afterburner wrote:Only interesting thing will be to see what excuse Hamilton comes up with to not give Bottas back the place.
His radio will have stopped working again ;)
:thumbup:
No that would be a big :thumbdown:

Now how unbiased does a poster think he is with such negative comments, this being different from merely taking heed at Hamilton fans themselves, Hamilton showed a bit of class today.
And if you go back to the posts at the end of the race, I gave credit to Hamilton for his action, poker.... as did a big number of those you would consider Hamilton critics. He did a good thing and got recognition for it.

However, even you... well, maybe... had to have been a bit surprised that the swap was made. I freely admit that I did not expect it to happen (of course, I was alone in my suspicions :)), and I was impressed that it did, hence my giving him credit for it.

Obviously, that was not enough for some..... so be it.
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

Ennis
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Ennis »

Warheart01 wrote:Thanks for that Flash2k11. :thumbup:

Good gesture from Hamiltons side, that's some sportsmanship right there. Not often you see that in sports nowadays.
Although it would be the complete opposite if he and merc didn't keep true to their word.
Not necessarily. The situation changed, Bottas couldn't even stay close to Hamilton and turned out with Verstappen on his tail. Given Bottas relative lack of lace, I wouldn't have switched them back.

Was a risky move, and one that had to be done pretty much on the finish line.

Ennis
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Ennis »

funkymonkey wrote:
optimisteprime wrote:
DirtyMike wrote: Great post, but surely you understand that running into another car and them having to retire as a direct result warrants a driver penalty?
It was the first lap, he wasn't trying to overtake, he wasn't trying to squeeze Ricciardo, in fact the line he was trying to take would have left Daniel plenty of space, but he simply locked up and when he lost grip the space he slid into happened to contain Ricciardo. Surely that's the very definition of a racing incident.
It was well deserved penalty. He lost positions by having car in wrong place on the wrong line. And then braked too late carrying too much speed which caused lockup. His fault. If it results in someone else getting hit and having to retire, he will get penalty which he did. Completely justified. He has gotten away with these things in past when it caused minor off for other drivers or mild contact. This resulted in retirement of another driver. Does not matter if its his team mate. He got punished justly.
Consistency though. In recent times, it HAS mattered if they're teammates and rightfully so in my opinion. Was a strange and unnecessary punishment.

hk77
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by hk77 »

regarding magnussen and hulkenberg incident, i can really understand why he was given the penalty.
as he was defending from being overtaken, he was defending in the corner , and there is only so much that can be done. from what i saw he was perfectly entitled to do what he did, otherwise i get the impression that the stewards are being even more inconsistent or even unprofessional.

would love to know what you guys think ?

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Lt. Drebin
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Lt. Drebin »

Regarding Hamilton: great gesture, yet, he just stuck with his word. What was his alternative? To be a cheater? He would be burned by media and fans for that, and will lose the support of Bottas. Still great gesture and the right one, credit to him to stick to his word.

Regarding Verstappen: if he was rightly penalized in the past for everything that he deserved, it would actually do him much good, and he would not take so much risky moves.

Regarding the race: Though I am personally happy with how the things developed and result, something must be done for the sake of racing, that the cars can follow each other closely, like in 70's and 80's.

I
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Zoue
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Zoue »

Quite disappointed that Kimi didn't stay out and try to overcut Vettel at the stops, like Vettel did at Monaco. I'm struggling to understand why he seems to have dropped any vestige of killer instinct

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