2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

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Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Someone claiming that Räikkönen was allowed to challenge Vettel and just did not manage to - that is a whole new level of partisan spin doctorship surely ...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Alienturnedhuman
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Alienturnedhuman »

I concur that Hamilton probably made the choice himself, as even if Mercedes had intended to do the switch back - once Verstappen was on Bottas's gearbox it became too risky to safely switch back. However, I think that Hamilton probably values a healthy relationship with his teammate more than the 6 point delta to Vettel, as he can better manage his mindset. Also, as it was Hamilton who asked for the initial switch on the condition he swapped back, I think that he felt that he had to switch back for integrity reasons.

It's one thing to disobey a team instruction to switch, it's another thing to offer a deal and then go back on it.

Either way, the gesture probably means he is the driver of the day for the forum moderators, as I hate to imagine what they would have had to put up with had Hamilton retained third place...

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Flash2k11
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Flash2k11 »

F1_Ernie wrote:
Blake wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Ferrari sacrifices everything for Vettel with a clear No. 1 and lapdog strategy. Mercedes on the other hand strategically pushes the slower driver ahead of their main championship candidate.

Advantage Vettel.
As it turned out Ferrari sacrificed nothing and the results show it. Our telecast crew is applauding Ferrari for their strategy. They got a 1-2 finish and maximized points in both Championships... EXACTLY what they needed.
As track position is key Ferrari knew it was near impossible to overtake both Ferraris, if it was an overtaking track I suspect Ferrari might of let Kimi go.
If it was an overtaking track, they wouldn't have had a choice in the matter. Hungary again conspiring to throw up issues that wont occur elsewhere. Decent race all in again, congratulations to Ferrari for making it stick even with Vettel's issues. Kimi has probably just guaranteed himself another year too... advantage Vettel heading into the summer break.
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Sevenfest
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Sevenfest »

ferdinand wrote:Hamilton is the real gentleman today. IMO he didn't need to give his podium back to Bottas as he's the team's lead driver. But HE DID, as he promised as a gentleman. That's how an athlete should be.
True - that said, I doubt the 3 point gain from 3rd over 4th would've been worth the DELUGE of vitriol that would have come his way for the next month

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

ferdinand wrote:Hamilton is the real gentleman today. IMO he didn't need to give his podium back to Bottas as he's the team's lead driver. But HE DID, as he promised as a gentleman. That's how an athlete should be.
That's a first, isn't it?
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IDrinkYourMilkshake
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by IDrinkYourMilkshake »

Migen wrote:
Herb Tarlik wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Ferrari sacrifices everything for Vettel with a clear No. 1 and lapdog strategy. Mercedes on the other hand strategically pushes the slower driver ahead of their main championship candidate.

Advantage Vettel.
Are there people still under the illusion that Kimi will be allowed to race Vettel? Seriously?
Apparently some people are annoyed that Ferrari did not order Vettel to make way for Kimi... ironically, its probably the same people who are actually very much against team orders.
I'm not against team orders. Today, for Ferrari, it made sense to keep Vettel ahead, since he's the only one in the WDC fight.

It also made sense to keep Bottas ahead of Hamilton, since he had earned track position in qualifying and the race, fairly. And both Mercedes drivers are in the thick of the WDC fight.

The only problem I have is Hamilton constantly belittling Fernando and Sebastian, while he himself asks for team orders the most. Bottas almost stops on track to let him go!

Today was the first time when Ferrari used team orders this season, and it was more than fair. Even Raikkonen knows if Vettel had a working car, he'd win easily from him.

gregs51
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by gregs51 »

chetan_rao wrote:
gregs51 wrote:Stupid stupid Mercedes. They just voluntarily increased Vettel's championship lead.
I thought everyone would be able to put partisan feelings aside for a moment and applaud sportsmanship when most people thought the swap-back won't happen. Evidently not. :uhoh:
Tell me, what does the 'sportsmanship' trophy look like at the end of season awards?

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Prema »

funkymonkey wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Ferrari sacrifices everything for Vettel with a clear No. 1 and lapdog strategy. Mercedes on the other hand strategically pushes the slower driver ahead of their main championship candidate.

Advantage Vettel.

It turns out Ferrari sacrificed nothing in the end. So yeah...


Also I think the call to let Bottas pass like that was Hamilton's own. I dont think Mercedes would have instructed him to do so on the last lap like that. Its fair play to Lewis. But Mercedes played team order more blatantly and obviously than Ferrari did today. Its about time blaming Ferrari for team orders stops after today.

Its fair play to Mercedes drivers in the end.
Yes, it was solely Hamilton's decision on the end. He had a perfect excuse not to do it otherwise.

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mds
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mds »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Someone claiming that Räikkönen was allowed to challenge Vettel and just did not manage to - that is a whole new level of partisan spin doctorship surely ...
How is it?

As I said, people oppose against team orders then get annoyed about the lack of team orders when it doesn't suit them. Let me throw three smileys at that: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ferrari got the 1-2 and best result for both championships. Argue against that why don't you.
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Blake
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Blake »

gregs51 wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
gregs51 wrote:Stupid stupid Mercedes. They just voluntarily increased Vettel's championship lead.
I thought everyone would be able to put partisan feelings aside for a moment and applaud sportsmanship when most people thought the swap-back won't happen. Evidently not. :uhoh:
Tell me, what does the 'sportsmanship' trophy look like at the end of season awards?
Perhaps respect one's actions is the bigger "trophy".
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Sevenfest wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:Fernando. :lol: :lol: :lol:
If there's one positive to take from the past 3 years of Honda pain it's moments like this!
It is true though that he does need to thank Honda for this result too. If he had no engine, he'd have got nowhere :lol: But just what has happened to Williams? Pretty much the best engine. Stroll is nothing like as good as Alonso clearly, but It must be to do with the chassis. It is amazing the difference that makes.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mcdo »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sevenfest wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:Fernando. :lol: :lol: :lol:
If there's one positive to take from the past 3 years of Honda pain it's moments like this!
It is true though that he does need to thank Honda for this result too. If he had no engine, he'd have got nowhere :lol: But just what has happened to Williams? Pretty much the best engine. Stroll is nothing like as good as Alonso clearly, but It must be to do with the chassis. It is amazing the difference that makes.
Williams never run well here. Or Monaco
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wolfticket
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by wolfticket »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Someone claiming that Räikkönen was allowed to challenge Vettel and just did not manage to - that is a whole new level of partisan spin doctorship surely ...
Practically nobody could overtake even with substantially more pace. It's hardly a stretch to say Räikkönen was in the same situation. I didn't hear any radio telling them to hold station.
===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶ ===\ō͡≡\ō͡≡o˞̶===

chetan_rao
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by chetan_rao »

gregs51 wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
gregs51 wrote:Stupid stupid Mercedes. They just voluntarily increased Vettel's championship lead.
I thought everyone would be able to put partisan feelings aside for a moment and applaud sportsmanship when most people thought the swap-back won't happen. Evidently not. :uhoh:
Tell me, what does the 'sportsmanship' trophy look like at the end of season awards?
I think Hamilton, being as win-at-all-costs as any sportsman I've ever seen, answered that question sufficiently on track. Nothing to add.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by wolfticket »

Sevenfest wrote:
ferdinand wrote:Hamilton is the real gentleman today. IMO he didn't need to give his podium back to Bottas as he's the team's lead driver. But HE DID, as he promised as a gentleman. That's how an athlete should be.
True - that said, I doubt the 3 point gain from 3rd over 4th would've been worth the DELUGE of vitriol that would have come his way for the next month
If I'm being cynical I might say that thinking ahead perhaps Hamilton and Mercedes though the bad blood between the drivers and in the team would eventually cost Hamilton more points later on than the 3 point now. That was arguably the case with Rosberg.
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Sevenfest
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Sevenfest »

TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Sevenfest wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:Fernando. :lol: :lol: :lol:
If there's one positive to take from the past 3 years of Honda pain it's moments like this!
It is true though that he does need to thank Honda for this result too. If he had no engine, he'd have got nowhere :lol: But just what has happened to Williams? Pretty much the best engine. Stroll is nothing like as good as Alonso clearly, but It must be to do with the chassis. It is amazing the difference that makes.
It seems to me Williams have made a car that's good in a straight line, good at medium-to-fast corners and absolutely nowhere in slow corners. It was a shame Di Resta had to retire, I thought he had a clean race and did what he had to do. Would've been curious to see what he could've done with more than 50 minutes and a Quali session's worth of preparation.

Going back to Hamilton - fair play for moving over, but Sky sound like they're about to reach climax over the grandness of his gesture. I wish C4 had every race live...

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Sevenfest
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Sevenfest »

wolfticket wrote:
Sevenfest wrote:
ferdinand wrote:Hamilton is the real gentleman today. IMO he didn't need to give his podium back to Bottas as he's the team's lead driver. But HE DID, as he promised as a gentleman. That's how an athlete should be.
True - that said, I doubt the 3 point gain from 3rd over 4th would've been worth the DELUGE of vitriol that would have come his way for the next month
If I'm being cynical I might say that thinking ahead perhaps Hamilton and Mercedes though the bad blood between the drivers and in the team would eventually cost Hamilton more points later on than the 3 point now. That was arguably the case with Rosberg.
No cynicism needed, I'm sure that was discussed or at the very least entered their heads at some point.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by SmoothRide »

Flash2k11 wrote: If it was an overtaking track, they wouldn't have had a choice in the matter. Hungary again conspiring to throw up issues that wont occur elsewhere. Decent race all in again, congratulations to Ferrari for making it stick even with Vettel's issues. Kimi has probably just guaranteed himself another year too... advantage Vettel heading into the summer break.
Hamilton is on pace to win the championship, given remaining tracks. I broke it down in a earlier post in this thread. This was a damage limitation race for Mercedes, so a 3rd or 4th place finish for Hamilton still makes him the favorite. We have also seen today that Mercedes will ask Bottas to pull over for Hamilton whenever needed so that will give him an additional boost.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by gregs51 »

chetan_rao wrote:
gregs51 wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
gregs51 wrote:Stupid stupid Mercedes. They just voluntarily increased Vettel's championship lead.
I thought everyone would be able to put partisan feelings aside for a moment and applaud sportsmanship when most people thought the swap-back won't happen. Evidently not. :uhoh:
Tell me, what does the 'sportsmanship' trophy look like at the end of season awards?
I think Hamilton, being as win-at-all-costs as any sportsman I've ever seen, answered that question sufficiently on track. Nothing to add.
Obviously you haven't seen Seb Vettel. He'll be the 5 time champ at the end of the season because of silly fairy cakes from Merc like this. Sounds all good now to talk sportsmanship, but come end of season they'll be some sullen faces and regret for days like this and in Baku.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by da4an1qu1 »

Some really childish responses in this thread. Commenting on Ferrari's sportsmanship. Both Ferrari and Mercedes showed exemplary sportsmanship. The sniping is just because Vettel is disliked, and took maximum benefit.

But if these childish commenters took a moment and thought about it, Raikkonen compliance maximised the points for the team, and only by side-effect, for Vettel. He took a sacrifice, but if he had attacked Vettel early, as the sitting duck he was, almost certainly Ferrari don't get the 1-2. Ferrari had absolutely no choice but to let it play out, and their bravery paid off.

As for Hamilton, and Bottas, much much respect. It also shows what an ultimately clever racer Hamilton is. The points differential between 3rd to 4th is 3 points, but for 1st to 2nd is 7 points. He is wise to keep Bottas on-side, because we all know that Bottas can be lightening in some of the higher speed circuits, and Hamilton might need to call in that P2 -> P1 bump up from Bottas in the coming rounds.

Sadly, my preferred team Red Bull, showed the wrong way to do things. And although I also prefer him as a racer, was a bit disappointed by how much Ricciardo laid the boot into Verstappen. I think Verstappen would have probably been penalised regardless, but as frustrated as he is Ricciardo should remember the team game and kept schtum. Verstappen should also have been more patient, and it was that lack of patience that cause his lock up. But the lock up was obviously the primary reason he plowed into Ricciardo. No need to call out the inexperience. Poor from both. Red Bull could have won this race. A rare one on the calendar they were genuine contenders. And I've just heard Verstappen's apology. Good lad.
Last edited by da4an1qu1 on Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

mds wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Someone claiming that Räikkönen was allowed to challenge Vettel and just did not manage to - that is a whole new level of partisan spin doctorship surely ...
How is it?

As I said, people oppose against team orders then get annoyed about the lack of team orders when it doesn't suit them. Let me throw three smileys at that: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ferrari got the 1-2 and best result for both championships. Argue against that why don't you.
Well, either you are against TO, then Mercedes is to be applauded for their sportsmanship today and Ferrari crucified for their TO.

Or, if you favour TO (which is fine IMO), then Ferrari did everything right today and Mercedes was incredibly stupid to swap back.

In any case: advantage Vettel.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1Tyrant »

Sky are disgusting. They basically got Toto to say that those 3pts could cost Hamilton the title. What gives?
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mds
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mds »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote: Well, either you are against TO, then Mercedes is to be applauded for their sportsmanship today and Ferrari crucified for their TO.
What Ferrari TO?
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Blake »

mds wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote: Well, either you are against TO, then Mercedes is to be applauded for their sportsmanship today and Ferrari crucified for their TO.
What Ferrari TO?
I missed that order as well....
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Paolo_Lasardi
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

mds wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote: Well, either you are against TO, then Mercedes is to be applauded for their sportsmanship today and Ferrari crucified for their TO.
What Ferrari TO?
Well, denying that Räikkönen was not allowed to attack and overtake Vettel today is surely bringing partisan spin-doctor-ship to a whole new level.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
8)

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by mds »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
mds wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote: Well, either you are against TO, then Mercedes is to be applauded for their sportsmanship today and Ferrari crucified for their TO.
What Ferrari TO?
Well, denying that Räikkönen was not allowed to attack and overtake Vettel today is surely bringing partisan spin-doctor-ship to a whole new level.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
8)
Proper answer please. When exactly did Ferrari hand out a TO?
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1Tyrant »

The broader point is Ferrari don't need TO because Raikkonen can rarely challenge Vettel. Keeping him on will always be sacrificing WCC for WDC.
Last edited by F1Tyrant on Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by UnlikeUday »

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Someone claiming that Räikkönen was allowed to challenge Vettel and just did not manage to - that is a whole new level of partisan spin doctorship surely ...

:lol: :lol: :lol:
Kimi was robbed at Monaco and here he was unlucky to miss out on a win. Mercedes is very professional team unlike Ferrari. They will win both the titles this year again I am sure. Hamilton did a great thing. Bottas will help him to win the title
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by coalblackmeadow »

flyboy10 wrote:Hamilton has changed. He wouldn't have done that before this season. What's the reason?
Well, the years before, the only two guys who fought for a championship were from the same team, so each point lost is one lost for the own challenge. Now, later this year, he's probably gonna rely on BOT at one or the other occasion, so let's not burn bridges. Nonetheless great sportsmanship, would have never believed that to happen and thought he'd make an excuse (VER too close to comfort). :thumbup:

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by chetan_rao »

F1Tyrant wrote:Sky are disgusting. They basically got Toto to say that those 3pts could cost Hamilton the title. What gives?
Fair response by Toto actually. He said it may cost them but that's how they want to play between teammates. :thumbup:

Read between the lines and he obvious left 'not swapping back could've cost a lot more' unsaid.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by funkymonkey »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
mds wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote: Well, either you are against TO, then Mercedes is to be applauded for their sportsmanship today and Ferrari crucified for their TO.
What Ferrari TO?
Well, denying that Räikkönen was not allowed to attack and overtake Vettel today is surely bringing partisan spin-doctor-ship to a whole new level.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
8)
It wouldnt have been easy to attack without risking contact even on the crippled Vettel.

If you wanted Ferrari to tell Vettel to let Kimi pass, then you are incredibly blinded and naive. That was never going to happen in million years. Not because its Kimi or Vettel but the end result for the team. If there was a car that could have defended against Mercedes successfully, it was Kimi's and it showed in the end. Hamilton wasnt able to attack him and get to wheel to wheel racing even with DRS.

Just shows Ferrari did exactly what they needed to do. They wanted win, they wanted 1-2 and only way to achieve it was to ensure your 2 drivers dont bang wheels with each other and a faster car in better conditions defends against a fast Mercedes.
Ferrari would have lost massively had they let kimi pass, They would have potentially lost 1-2 and potentially one podium as well.

Ferrari's refusal to use TO to let kimi past actually got them 1-2 and their championship contender got maximum points. Its job perfectly dont by the team and its drivers. And for that they need to be praised.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1Tyrant »

Mercedes-Benz wrote:Hamilton did a great thing. Bottas will help him to win the title
I'm cynical that this event will never be repeated by Hamilton. This is a legacy thing to show he's "true to his word" and a "team player" despite this being the first time he's ever played for the team.

Don't bet much if Bottas is in contention with 3 races to go. Valterri will be racing for himself.
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by robins13 »

Magnussen live on Norwegian TV.
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Herb Tarlik »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:Hamilton did a great thing. Bottas will help him to win the title
I'm cynical that this event will never be repeated by Hamilton. This is a legacy thing to show he's "true to his word" and a "team player" despite this being the first time he's ever played for the team.

Don't bet much if Bottas is in contention with 3 races to go. Valterri will be racing for himself.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by F1nut »

Prema wrote:Just wondering, when was the last time someone was penalized for casing a collision with a teammate?
2016, Austrian Grand Prix, Nico Rosberg hit Lewis Hamilton - 10 sec. penalty



(late to the party today - watched race AFK)

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by optimisteprime »

Really impressive drive from Vettel holding his nerve and keeping everyone behind him while having to steer left to go straight and having to nurse a wounded car for most of the race. Even kept his tyres in shape to pull out a little gap at the end.

Fair play to Hamilton and Mercedes for showing some integrity, I honestly didn't expect it from them based on past record but credit where it's due.

Great drive from Fernando, and fantastic to see the fastest lap and his fooling around after the race. We've missed out on so much by not having that guy at the front for so long.

Really disappointed for Red Bull. Looked like a stupid but honest mistake from Verstappen, I can't get my head around why he was penalised for it. Could have been a very different race without that.

Very enjoyable race overall. Hungaroring was always one of the worst tracks on the calendar but in recent years it has actually produced some great races. In the era of DRS a track where track position really means something is much appreciated, and in the era of uncompetitive hybrid engines, a track where the driver and chassis can come to the fore is much appreciated too.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Caserole of Nonsense »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Someone claiming that Räikkönen was allowed to challenge Vettel and just did not manage to - that is a whole new level of partisan spin doctorship surely ...

:lol: :lol: :lol:
as soon as i read that i knew who you meant. dont bother trying to argue with them cos i dont think they have ever agreed with anything on this forum. i could probably start praising vettel and ferrari and they would argue.

anyone with an ounce of common sense knows kimi had the pace to win because of vettels problem. if it was another driver ahead he would have had a real go. no guarantees but he was obviously and i mean obviously holding station. at least mercedes know how to run a team fairly, and hopefully a mercedes driver will beat vettel to the drivers and also win the constuctors. fair play to hamilton. did something Vettel wouldnt even dream of doing.
Last edited by Caserole of Nonsense on Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

F1Tyrant wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:Hamilton did a great thing. Bottas will help him to win the title
I'm cynical that this event will never be repeated by Hamilton. This is a legacy thing to show he's "true to his word" and a "team player" despite this being the first time he's ever played for the team.

Don't bet much if Bottas is in contention with 3 races to go. Valterri will be racing for himself.
I think both drivers have a good chance to finish ahead of Vettel unless Ferrari improve. I do not think Ferrari can do such performance on other tracks. May be Singapore should suit them as well
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Re: 2017 Hungarian Grand Prix Race Thread

Post by Warheart01 »

Couldn't watch the race. Was there teamorders to Bottas to let Hamilton pass?

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