What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

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IDrinkYourMilkshake
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by IDrinkYourMilkshake »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Blake wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Well, it was easy to see and many said so. Go back and read the comments at that time (in- and outside the forum ;) ) - or stick to selective memory (referring to you insisting on " MOST").
Whatever you say...

I just don't recall many saying that Kimi would NOT be an improvement over Massa or just his equal as you suggest. I do know that I have absolutely NO desire to go back through years of threads to see if you might be right. I did do a quick google search however, and did see these not exactly ambivalent storylines...

"Ferrari who will have arguably the strongest driver line-up in F1..." - BBC

"Kimi Raikkonen's Ferrari comeback a headache for Alonso." - the Guardian

"Ferrari will have the strongest line-up on the grid next year." - Lewis Hamilton

"Both fans and international media have already warmly welcomed the prospect of two of F1's biggest names and talents
going up against each other on the same team..." Sky. ... BTW, they were referencing Nando and Kimi... just to be clear.

Kimi "will join Alonso on a star-studded team." - Autosport

So, I think that I will just trust my memory... even if you deem it "selective". You can trust yours.
;)
Well, a nice selective selection ... :lol:
... not representative at all, of course.

Whatever, at the end of the day, those who were not considering KR to be an upgrade on FM have been right, as was to be expected.
If it is true that KR earns more than FM that this was a bad management decision. And continuing it does not make it better.
From what I remember, Massa earned around 1/3rd of what Alonso earned. When they re-hired Raikkonen for 2014, he was hired on the same salary as Alonso. It was a move meant to show Alonso that he isn't the boss, and they can pay another world champion just as much. It was a stupid decision by Ferrari, and certainly financially it was stupid. Highly rewarding for the eternally unmotivated Raikkonen, though.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Blake »

Again... hindsight is a great asset. How wonderful it must be to look back 3 years later, now offer such "knowledgeable" assetsments. If only Ferrari had been able to see the future as well
;)
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Well, since KR was not exactly better than FM when they were teammates, it was all too expectable that he woul not be an upgrade. And so it was.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by GingerFurball »

Robot wrote:Ferrari is always super safe with their drivers, I expect one more year for Kimi and a new 3 year contract for Vettel.
The question is whether Vettel will want that new 3 year deal. His time at Ferrari has hardly been a resounding success and this season is reminding me of Alonso's 2012 season.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by F1_Ernie »

GingerFurball wrote:
Robot wrote:Ferrari is always super safe with their drivers, I expect one more year for Kimi and a new 3 year contract for Vettel.
The question is whether Vettel will want that new 3 year deal. His time at Ferrari has hardly been a resounding success and this season is reminding me of Alonso's 2012 season.
Wow the same as Alonso's 2012 season, I can't see that all.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Multi69 »

Blake wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Multi69 wrote:Barichello, Massa, Raikkonen.

Name the next submissive #2 driver for Ferrari. It's Perez.
Baloney.....

At the time that Rubens was signed he was the best available driver and one who had shown considerable promise.

When Kimi was signed, the second time, he was arguably the best available driver and in this forum Ferrari was hailed for signing him... talking about what a pairing they had now.

Massa was one of the more promising drivers when he was signed, but I don't remember who else was available.
Massa was only really signed out of convenience. They already had Kimi in the bag for 07 and didn't know if Schumacher would stay on. They just needed a stop gap for the year. The plan was for Rubens to stay on but he took them by surprise when he jumped to Honda.

Irvine and Barrichello were both the best obtainable drivers at the time of signing. You could've signed anybody at that time and they would have been a number 2 to Schumacher. He was just that much better than anyone else. I believe you could say the same thing about Alonso during his time at Ferrari but I know that is more contentious.
Agreed.... it does not indicate the "willingness to be a lapdog" philosophy however.

Rubens - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yHPQSOziDw
Massa - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=503bTA5fGvY
Kimi - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6t2YlY-7xI (Lets not forget how Kimi has been used this season to slow down the Mercs)

As I said - submissive.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Blake »

Multi69 wrote:
Blake wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Multi69 wrote:Barichello, Massa, Raikkonen.

Name the next submissive #2 driver for Ferrari. It's Perez.
Baloney.....

At the time that Rubens was signed he was the best available driver and one who had shown considerable promise.

When Kimi was signed, the second time, he was arguably the best available driver and in this forum Ferrari was hailed for signing him... talking about what a pairing they had now.

Massa was one of the more promising drivers when he was signed, but I don't remember who else was available.
Massa was only really signed out of convenience. They already had Kimi in the bag for 07 and didn't know if Schumacher would stay on. They just needed a stop gap for the year. The plan was for Rubens to stay on but he took them by surprise when he jumped to Honda.

Irvine and Barrichello were both the best obtainable drivers at the time of signing. You could've signed anybody at that time and they would have been a number 2 to Schumacher. He was just that much better than anyone else. I believe you could say the same thing about Alonso during his time at Ferrari but I know that is more contentious.
Agreed.... it does not indicate the "willingness to be a lapdog" philosophy however.

Rubens - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yHPQSOziDw
Massa - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=503bTA5fGvY
Kimi - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6t2YlY-7xI (Lets not forget how Kimi has been used this season to slow down the Mercs)

As I said - submissive.
Perhaps you should attempt to understand the nature of the post before putting in all that effort to find examples that mean nothing relevant to the discussion. The point was... and you missed it... that Ferrari hired both Rubens and Kimi as the best drivers available, and neither were hired from the onset to be a so-called lap dog.
(Lets not forget how Kimi has been used this season to slow down the Mercs)
By all means, let us not forget that! How long have you been watching team sports? How long have you been watching F1?
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Multi69 »

Perhaps, or perhaps you missed the point. They might have been hired as you say - but they weren't kept for the same reasons mate. How long have you been watching F1? :lol: No need to get so defensive & patronising mate, we're having a discussion haha - Copy and pasting a link is pretty easy :nod: .

The OP's original post: "I ask the question because I'm starting to get the sinking feeling that they will re-sign Raikkonen again. This is a case of a mediocre driver keeping a top seat warm for 4 years (5 if they keep him for 2018) without winning a single race."

Does that sound like a champion being hired to win a championship to you? Kimi is a #2 lapdog, so was Massa & so was Rubens and the replacement will be too.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Blake »

Multi69 wrote: How long have you been watching F1? :lol: No need to get so defensive & patronising mate, we're having a discussion haha - Copy and pasting a link is pretty easy :nod: .
The question was asked in response to your post
"(Lets not forget how Kimi has been used this season to slow down the Mercs)"
The post indicated a distinct lack of knowledge about F1 and about the team aspect. It certainly is not unique to Ferrari and Kimi, never has been. As long as you have more than one car to a team, there will times when the team uses one car to the benefit of the other.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Multi69 »

Cool, well the thread isn't about me is it?

It's pretty common knowledge that Ferrari favour a driver over the other. As I said, the driver is hired to be a lap dog at some stage. It's up to them to not be that dog.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by adywakey »

Kimi has never quite been the same after the back operation he had at the end of 2013.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by pokerman »

Rockie wrote:What is most surprising here is over half the people responding here are Hamilton fans from what we have seen since '14 and since Canada if Mercedes remains that dominant whats the point in having two competitive drivers at Ferrari next year so they can take points of each other and Mercedes further ahead or to distract ourselves with the in fighting at Ferrari with Hamilton further down the road?

The thread should be about Vettel, Alonso, Ricciardo or Max going to Mercedes not about the second driver at Ferrari.

The mind boggles, if Ferrari were the dominant team worrying about their second driver will make sense.
I don't understand your post if Ferrari had a more dominant car then Kimi's performance would be less critical much like we saw with Webber at Red Bull.

Who is the weakest link between Kimi and Bottas, why should people be asking for the stronger driver Bottas to be replaced, more so than Kimi?
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by pokerman »

MasterRacer wrote:
Vettel Fan wrote:If Ferrari falls behind developing the car the rest of the season and Vettel loses out to Hamilton do you see him moving to Merc? The last few races Ferrari haven't looks as sharp as Merc. Could be an interesting silly season.
Most German's are dreaming of Seb in that Mercedes winning all the races, he's that good, and Hamilton can go back to McLaren with the new Mercedes engine partnership.
Hamilton has a contract with Mercedes for next season and Vettel is actually that good that he wouldn't actually join Mercedes until he knew that Hamilton was leaving, much like he did with Alonso at Ferrari, I think there is some stock in the rumour that Vettel is looking for a 1 year contract with Ferrari.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by slide »

merc won't want Alonso or vettel , there is no reason , the pair they have now will be merc team mates for a few seasons yet and everything at merc is rosie, something toto will want to hang on to, so vettel will eventually want a longer contract at least until max is available.......and when max is available , won't they love him at Ferrari
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by pokerman »

mcdo wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:Most did indeed think so; the majority opinion - from what I remember of polls and discussions at the time - was that Kimi would be a challenge to Alonso, unlike Massa.

Looking back on it, though, I do believe that Ferrari knew Kimi wasn't going to be Alonso's equal. They weren't putting two top drivers in the same team, and they knew it.
Then why get rid of Massa at all?
Well, to be clear, I do think that Ferrari expected Kimi to be better than Massa had been. I just don't think they expected him to challenge Alonso.
Or the other popular theory, they thought Alonso was leaving and Kimi was signed as insurance
This is what happened plus Kimi won the WDC with them which also carried some weight going forward post Alonso.

Kimi did look much improved at Lotus but I think with the benefit of hindsight that Lotus must have been a pretty good car.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by pokerman »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Well, since KR was not exactly better than FM when they were teammates, it was all too expectable that he woul not be an upgrade. And so it was.
Indeed but there were some of us fooled into believing that we were seeing a much improved Kimi at Lotus.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by slide »

vettel is in a funny position really and where is his future , he needs to dominate at Ferrari in f1 and quick

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Well, since KR was not exactly better than FM when they were teammates, it was all too expectable that he woul not be an upgrade. And so it was.
Indeed but there were some of us fooled into believing that we were seeing a much improved Kimi at Lotus.
I think at the time we were tricked into thinking the Kimi during his first Ferrari stint was the outlier not the norm. He was a top, top driver in his Mclaren days and an overrated Grosjean and an underrated Lotus tricked us into thinking he was back at that level.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Exediron »

mikeyg123 wrote:I think at the time we were tricked into thinking the Kimi during his first Ferrari stint was the outlier not the norm. He was a top, top driver in his Mclaren days and an overrated Grosjean and an underrated Lotus tricked us into thinking he was back at that level.
I'm not convinced anyone overrated Grosjean; it was only in the second half of 2013 that Grosjean really started to get the better of Kimi, and I certainly do recall people talking about what that meant in regard to how good the Lotus was, etc. The explanation usually given at the time was that relations between Kimi and the team had broken down and that was the cause of his late-season struggles.

But during that period where Grosjean was on the podium practically every weekend, I think everyone was agreed that it meant the Lotus was the 2nd best car.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think at the time we were tricked into thinking the Kimi during his first Ferrari stint was the outlier not the norm. He was a top, top driver in his Mclaren days and an overrated Grosjean and an underrated Lotus tricked us into thinking he was back at that level.
I'm not convinced anyone overrated Grosjean; it was only in the second half of 2013 that Grosjean really started to get the better of Kimi, and I certainly do recall people talking about what that meant in regard to how good the Lotus was, etc. The explanation usually given at the time was that relations between Kimi and the team had broken down and that was the cause of his late-season struggles.

But during that period where Grosjean was on the podium practically every weekend, I think everyone was agreed that it meant the Lotus was the 2nd best car.
Kimi was always a lot better than Grosjean until he stopped being paid and picked up a back injury. People read too much into that.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Fiki »

I think some people forget one of the reasons mentioned for why people thought Räikkönen was signed; the threat of Alonso leaving. That he decided to remain for another year is unimportant when considering the year they were together. Alongside Alonso, every driver would take second place, and that is what we saw happened to Massa. No driver "performs", when the team is not with him. I believe this also goes a long way to explaining why Räikkönen didn't shine alongside Alonso; Ferrari were desperately trying to hang on to Alonso. Something McLaren also know a thing or two about.

There's no doubting that the Lotus was one of the top cars; you don't win races without one. And Grosjean was fast; he wouldn't have a seat right now if he weren't.
How many of us have forgotten that the tide at Lotus swayed between Räikkönen and Grosjean when changes were made to the wheelbase of the car? I remember Räikkönen improving again when he was given a shorter wheelbase version again, just as I remember great efforts to provide him with a front end he could feel better, through a better steering wheel rack. It's no good saying a driver has to adapt, when what you're really saying is you've hired the wrong driver for your car. Or you're simply not interested in putting in the work needed to improve what the driver can do with it. Ferrari seem to have two drivers who are fairly close in what they need in a car. So far so good. Whether they have put in sufficient work to let Räikkönen profit is not entirely clear car-wise. But that his points don't reflect his true value at the time is.
It's a good thing Räikkönen is not a political animal like his team-mate and like Alonso. Except for himself. And I believe Ferrari aren't the team to risk what Mercedes felt they were able to allow for the past 3 years, but no longer: a true competition between their two drivers.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Fiki wrote:I think some people forget one of the reasons mentioned for why people thought Räikkönen was signed; the threat of Alonso leaving. That he decided to remain for another year is unimportant when considering the year they were together. Alongside Alonso, every driver would take second place, and that is what we saw happened to Massa. No driver "performs", when the team is not with him. I believe this also goes a long way to explaining why Räikkönen didn't shine alongside Alonso; Ferrari were desperately trying to hang on to Alonso. Something McLaren also know a thing or two about.

There's no doubting that the Lotus was one of the top cars; you don't win races without one. And Grosjean was fast; he wouldn't have a seat right now if he weren't.
How many of us have forgotten that the tide at Lotus swayed between Räikkönen and Grosjean when changes were made to the wheelbase of the car? I remember Räikkönen improving again when he was given a shorter wheelbase version again, just as I remember great efforts to provide him with a front end he could feel better, through a better steering wheel rack. It's no good saying a driver has to adapt, when what you're really saying is you've hired the wrong driver for your car. Or you're simply not interested in putting in the work needed to improve what the driver can do with it. Ferrari seem to have two drivers who are fairly close in what they need in a car. So far so good. Whether they have put in sufficient work to let Räikkönen profit is not entirely clear car-wise. But that his points don't reflect his true value at the time is.
It's a good thing Räikkönen is not a political animal like his team-mate and like Alonso. Except for himself. And I believe Ferrari aren't the team to risk what Mercedes felt they were able to allow for the past 3 years, but no longer: a true competition between their two drivers.
I really don't think that's true. The performance between Kimi and Grosjean never really altered until the back end of 2013 when Grosjean got the upper hand. Before then there was never a period where Grosjean was better.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by RaggedMan »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think at the time we were tricked into thinking the Kimi during his first Ferrari stint was the outlier not the norm. He was a top, top driver in his Mclaren days and an overrated Grosjean and an underrated Lotus tricked us into thinking he was back at that level.
I'm not convinced anyone overrated Grosjean; it was only in the second half of 2013 that Grosjean really started to get the better of Kimi, and I certainly do recall people talking about what that meant in regard to how good the Lotus was, etc. The explanation usually given at the time was that relations between Kimi and the team had broken down and that was the cause of his late-season struggles.

But during that period where Grosjean was on the podium practically every weekend, I think everyone was agreed that it meant the Lotus was the 2nd best car.
Kimi was always a lot better than Grosjean until he stopped being paid and picked up a back injury. People read too much into that.
They also switched from a short wheelbase to a long one around that time.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by justbeingmiko »

slide wrote:merc won't want Alonso or vettel , there is no reason , the pair they have now will be merc team mates for a few seasons yet and everything at merc is rosie, something toto will want to hang on to, so vettel will eventually want a longer contract at least until max is available.......and when max is available , won't they love him at Ferrari
True, but Merc would probably want Vettel if Lewis left...and he is only in contract until the end of 2019. Pretty sure that would be why Merc would be reaching out to the top drivers and asking.

Alonso probably wants the Merc deal for next year (can't blame him).
Vettel one more year with Ferrari and then into Merc if Lewis leaves.
Lewis seems settled enough to do next year but beyond that, who knows!
Max is the unknown as there is no published end date to his contract - pretty sure there will be Red Bull and Max performance clauses in there though, so he may be available if Red Bull have a disaster of a 2018.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by justbeingmiko »

RaggedMan wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:I think at the time we were tricked into thinking the Kimi during his first Ferrari stint was the outlier not the norm. He was a top, top driver in his Mclaren days and an overrated Grosjean and an underrated Lotus tricked us into thinking he was back at that level.
I'm not convinced anyone overrated Grosjean; it was only in the second half of 2013 that Grosjean really started to get the better of Kimi, and I certainly do recall people talking about what that meant in regard to how good the Lotus was, etc. The explanation usually given at the time was that relations between Kimi and the team had broken down and that was the cause of his late-season struggles.

But during that period where Grosjean was on the podium practically every weekend, I think everyone was agreed that it meant the Lotus was the 2nd best car.
Kimi was always a lot better than Grosjean until he stopped being paid and picked up a back injury. People read too much into that.
They also switched from a short wheelbase to a long one around that time.
It might be worth giving consideration to the loss of motivation. It is surprising how an injury can be pushed through, but when you don't feel the need to push through, well, the pain becomes all encompassing. And of course, the injury could have got worse :)

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by lamo »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Well, since KR was not exactly better than FM when they were teammates, it was all too expectable that he woul not be an upgrade. And so it was.
Indeed but there were some of us fooled into believing that we were seeing a much improved Kimi at Lotus.
I think at the time we were tricked into thinking the Kimi during his first Ferrari stint was the outlier not the norm. He was a top, top driver in his Mclaren days and an overrated Grosjean and an underrated Lotus tricked us into thinking he was back at that level.
Indeed, the outlier is without doubt 2003-2005.

2003 and 2004, he was way ahead of Coulthard. But Webber was even further ahead of DC in 2007 and 2008 although DC was a little older then. Webber joined Red Bull and thrashed him.

2005 against Montoya, at the time cemented Kimi as the fastest driver in F1 but JPM was new to the team, broke his shoulder early in the year and missed 2 races. In 2006, Montoya was a lot closer to Raikkonen and it was pretty equal up until JPM left.

Post Mclaren/Michelin's Kimi has not been a top tier driver. It's just hard to tell if he ever was or if the cars and team mates flattered him over that brief period of his career.

He had three excellent seasons but he has been in F1 for 15 seasons... compared to those three years he has been thrashed by Alonso, easily beaten by Vettel, matched by Massa and beaten an average driver in Grosjean.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by lamo »

Kimi somewhat understandably didn't get the most out of the 2012 Renault. Grosjean out qualified him 6-1 during the first part of the season. Kimi's racecrafy and ability to avoid incidence was amazing that year though. Grosjean was the polar opposite and crashing every other week.

I said it at the end of 2012, if Kimi had been in F1 in 2011 and gone into 2012 with a year under his belt he might have won the 2012 F1 title. I think the Renault was possibly the best overall car that season, especially in the first half of the year when Kimi was at his most rusty after the comeback. Grosjean was also essentially a rookie in 2012 himself too.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by paul_gmb »

It would not surprise me if Vettel retires end of the year, if he wins the championship.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by SmoothRide »

paul_gmb wrote:It would not surprise me if Vettel retires end of the year, if he wins the championship.
I doubt that Vettel (or Hamilton for that matter) will retire anytime soon. It would be less surprising if Alonso retires from F1 unless he gets a competitive ride for next season.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by UnlikeUday »

SmoothRide wrote:
paul_gmb wrote:It would not surprise me if Vettel retires end of the year, if he wins the championship.
I doubt that Vettel (or Hamilton for that matter) will retire anytime soon. It would be less surprising if Alonso retires from F1 unless he gets a competitive ride for next season.
The one(Kimi) who should be retiring, isn't budging at the moment!

Vettel & Hamilton have got some more good years in them to remain in F1. Once they're bored of F1, they'll look elsewhere such as WEC etc.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by mikeyg123 »

paul_gmb wrote:It would not surprise me if Vettel retires end of the year, if he wins the championship.
I thin Vettel loves being an F1 driver. I could see him going on and on.

paul_gmb
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by paul_gmb »

All your replies are correct, and are more argumented than mine.

It's just that after seeing Rosberg do it, the whole logic that I was working on changed a bit.

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SmoothRide
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by SmoothRide »

UnlikeUday wrote:
The one(Kimi) who should be retiring, isn't budging at the moment!
Kimi is very comfortable. He gets a tier 1 driver salary for tier 2 performance at best. He has set the expectations low and he is obviously not phased too much by losing to his teammate. I still support him out of habit, but at this point it is difficult to tell why.

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SmoothRide
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by SmoothRide »

paul_gmb wrote: It's just that after seeing Rosberg do it, the whole logic that I was working on changed a bit.
I think the difference is that Hamilton, Vettel, and Alonso are trying to build legacies rather than just have careers in F1. Rosberg retired because he accepted his limitations and also achieved what he set out to accomplish. He could pile on some more race wins, but that wouldn't change anything in his life. Besides, he has a family now and that changes one's perception.

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mcdo
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by mcdo »

SmoothRide wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
The one(Kimi) who should be retiring, isn't budging at the moment!
Kimi is very comfortable. He gets a tier 1 driver salary for tier 2 performance at best. He has set the expectations low and he is obviously not phased too much by losing to his teammate. I still support him out of habit, but at this point it is difficult to tell why.
I bet the Monaco pole still got ya going like the old days
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost

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SmoothRide
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by SmoothRide »

mcdo wrote:
SmoothRide wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
The one(Kimi) who should be retiring, isn't budging at the moment!
Kimi is very comfortable. He gets a tier 1 driver salary for tier 2 performance at best. He has set the expectations low and he is obviously not phased too much by losing to his teammate. I still support him out of habit, but at this point it is difficult to tell why.
I bet the Monaco pole still got ya going like the old days
That was one of the best moments of the season even though I felt that he has a less than 50% chance of winning the race. It was a cracking lap though.

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Robot
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Robot »

SmoothRide wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
The one(Kimi) who should be retiring, isn't budging at the moment!
Kimi is very comfortable. He gets a tier 1 driver salary for tier 2 performance at best. He has set the expectations low and he is obviously not phased too much by losing to his teammate. I still support him out of habit, but at this point it is difficult to tell why.

I don't think Kimi is getting tier 1 money, tier 1 is just Vettel, Alonso and Hamilton.

lamo

Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by lamo »

Kimi hasn't been on tier 1 money since 2010 when he got tier 1 money not to drive.

The thing I find staggering is that Senna was apparently on $1 million per race in 1993, $16 million per season when Mclarens budget was less than $50 million USD. The best paid driver now gets less than 10% of the annual budget per season. Senna was getting over 33% and his 1993 wage would probably still make him the 4th-5th best paid driver out there.

In real terms the driver also earn no where near as much as Schumacher did at Ferrari. Driver wages have fallen quite a lot, I guess its the loss of the Tobacco mega bucks.

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SmoothRide
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by SmoothRide »

lamo wrote:Kimi hasn't been on tier 1 money since 2010 when he got tier 1 money not to drive.

The thing I find staggering is that Senna was apparently on $1 million per race in 1993, $16 million per season when Mclarens budget was less than $50 million USD. The best paid driver now gets less than 10% of the annual budget per season. Senna was getting over 33% and his 1993 wage would probably still make him the 4th-5th best paid driver out there.

In real terms the driver also earn no where near as much as Schumacher did at Ferrari. Driver wages have fallen quite a lot, I guess its the loss of the Tobacco mega bucks.
I remembered that Kimi got rehired by Ferrari with the same salary as Alonso and that was indeed the case in 2014. The two of them were the highest paid drivers in F1 then. Kimi's been taking pay cuts every year to keep his ride though. So he's not making tier 1 money now, but he was in 2014.

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slide
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by slide »

what if Alonso gets a 2 year contract at Ferrari , would that influence a vettel retirement in any way and then we have a young max jumping up and down in the distance , take me , take me -it reminds me of my 2 dogs when I get the dog lead out

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