What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

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Jenson's Understeer
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

I've said for a while that I think Ferrari will ultimately pick between Kimi and Perez, and I'm starting to lean towards them retaining Kimi. Give Kimi another one-year contract and at the end of 2018, pretty much any driver Ferrari would wish to sign may be available. It would also give them a season to evaluate Charles Leclerc at Haas or Sauber, as it could be that by the end of 2018, he's already making a strong case for an immediate promotion.

I still think long-term, their best move would be to prise Carlos Sainz away from Red Bull and pair him with Vettel for the next two/three years. I know he's contracted with Red Bull in 2018, but Helmut Marko did say that "when Ferrari come we (Marko and Sainz) can talk" so I think they would let him move if such an opportunity arose.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Blake »

Fiki wrote:
slide wrote:and max wants a Ferrari seat
Has he said so? I wouldn't be surprised, mind you, but I'm one of those F1 fans who don't see anything special in (going to) Ferrari.
That you may be, Fiki. However, I am not sure that many, if not most, drivers see it the same way... and that is what really counts, isn't it?
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by UnlikeUday »

Jenson's Understeer wrote:I've said for a while that I think Ferrari will ultimately pick between Kimi and Perez, and I'm starting to lean towards them retaining Kimi. Give Kimi another one-year contract and at the end of 2018, pretty much any driver Ferrari would wish to sign may be available. It would also give them a season to evaluate Charles Leclerc at Haas or Sauber, as it could be that by the end of 2018, he's already making a strong case for an immediate promotion.

I still think long-term, their best move would be to prise Carlos Sainz away from Red Bull and pair him with Vettel for the next two/three years. I know he's contracted with Red Bull in 2018, but Helmut Marko did say that "when Ferrari come we (Marko and Sainz) can talk" so I think they would let him move if such an opportunity arose.
If they're eyeing Verstappen or Ricciardo for 2019, they'll somehow live with Raikkonen for 1 more year.

If Kimi decides to retire then Perez has a bigger chance to get that seat than Sainz. This might be for 1 year but even 1 year in a Ferrari will give many opportunities.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Fiki »

Blake wrote:
Fiki wrote:
slide wrote:and max wants a Ferrari seat
Has he said so? I wouldn't be surprised, mind you, but I'm one of those F1 fans who don't see anything special in (going to) Ferrari.
That you may be, Fiki. However, I am not sure that many, if not most, drivers see it the same way... and that is what really counts, isn't it?
Perhaps I should specify that I don't see what Ferrari brings that another team doesn't, except perhaps more money than a driver should be paid, plus the level this kind of finance brings to the technical side of things. I suppose it would be easy enough to find out if a driver would want to go there because Ferrari are 'special', but so far I don't think the test has ever been carried out. ;)
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Rockie »

Fiki wrote:
Blake wrote:
Fiki wrote:
slide wrote:and max wants a Ferrari seat
Has he said so? I wouldn't be surprised, mind you, but I'm one of those F1 fans who don't see anything special in (going to) Ferrari.
That you may be, Fiki. However, I am not sure that many, if not most, drivers see it the same way... and that is what really counts, isn't it?
Perhaps I should specify that I don't see what Ferrari brings that another team doesn't, except perhaps more money than a driver should be paid, plus the level this kind of finance brings to the technical side of things. I suppose it would be easy enough to find out if a driver would want to go there because Ferrari are 'special', but so far I don't think the test has ever been carried out. ;)
It's almost same as why people want to work for the most prestigious company in their field if they have got the opportunity to.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by shoot999 »

Yup. Offer any driver Vettel or Hamiltons seat, and they would all grab the Ferrari. ;)

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Option or Prime »

shoot999 wrote:Yup. Offer any driver Vettel or Hamiltons seat, and they would all grab the Ferrari. ;)
Are you sure about that, in a choice between a car that will probably win a WDC and one that has a chance of winning a WDC any driver would take the car that gives them the best chance over the historical icons surely!

The young drivers of today are hungry for success, like all of that generation today, whatever gives them that the quickest is favourite.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by shoot999 »

Option or Prime wrote:
shoot999 wrote:Yup. Offer any driver Vettel or Hamiltons seat, and they would all grab the Ferrari. ;)
Are you sure about that, in a choice between a car that will probably win a WDC and one that has a chance of winning a WDC any driver would take the car that gives them the best chance over the historical icons surely!

The young drivers of today are hungry for success, like all of that generation today, whatever gives them that the quickest is favourite.
That was my point. Hence the ;) Although I do see the attraction to Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso of adding a Ferrari WDC to their CV.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Option or Prime »

shoot999 wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
shoot999 wrote:Yup. Offer any driver Vettel or Hamiltons seat, and they would all grab the Ferrari. ;)
Are you sure about that, in a choice between a car that will probably win a WDC and one that has a chance of winning a WDC any driver would take the car that gives them the best chance over the historical icons surely!

The young drivers of today are hungry for success, like all of that generation today, whatever gives them that the quickest is favourite.
That was my point. Hence the ;) Although I do see the attraction to Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso of adding a Ferrari WDC to their CV.
Oops sorry! Got the wrong end of the stick.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Multi69 »

Barichello, Massa, Raikkonen.

Name the next submissive #2 driver for Ferrari. It's Perez.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Fiki »

Multi69 wrote:Barichello, Massa, Raikkonen.

Name the next submissive #2 driver for Ferrari. It's Perez.
I only wish Perez the very best. It's that first name on your list that makes me question how Ferrari operate. But as long as Barrichello doesn't spill the beans, I can only go by what we know, and wonder what precisely the scuderia tells its drivers.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Blake »

Multi69 wrote:Barichello, Massa, Raikkonen.

Name the next submissive #2 driver for Ferrari. It's Perez.
Baloney.....

At the time that Rubens was signed he was the best available driver and one who had shown considerable promise.

When Kimi was signed, the second time, he was arguably the best available driver and in this forum Ferrari was hailed for signing him... talking about what a pairing they had now.

Massa was one of the more promising drivers when he was signed, but I don't remember who else was available.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Blake wrote:
Multi69 wrote:Barichello, Massa, Raikkonen.

Name the next submissive #2 driver for Ferrari. It's Perez.
Baloney.....

At the time that Rubens was signed he was the best available driver and one who had shown considerable promise.

When Kimi was signed, the second time, he was arguably the best available driver and in this forum Ferrari was hailed for signing him... talking about what a pairing they had now.

Massa was one of the more promising drivers when he was signed, but I don't remember who else was available.
Massa was only really signed out of convenience. They already had Kimi in the bag for 07 and didn't know if Schumacher would stay on. They just needed a stop gap for the year. The plan was for Rubens to stay on but he took them by surprise when he jumped to Honda.

Irvine and Barrichello were both the best obtainable drivers at the time of signing. You could've signed anybody at that time and they would have been a number 2 to Schumacher. He was just that much better than anyone else. I believe you could say the same thing about Alonso during his time at Ferrari but I know that is more contentious.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Blake »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Multi69 wrote:Barichello, Massa, Raikkonen.

Name the next submissive #2 driver for Ferrari. It's Perez.
Baloney.....

At the time that Rubens was signed he was the best available driver and one who had shown considerable promise.

When Kimi was signed, the second time, he was arguably the best available driver and in this forum Ferrari was hailed for signing him... talking about what a pairing they had now.

Massa was one of the more promising drivers when he was signed, but I don't remember who else was available.
Massa was only really signed out of convenience. They already had Kimi in the bag for 07 and didn't know if Schumacher would stay on. They just needed a stop gap for the year. The plan was for Rubens to stay on but he took them by surprise when he jumped to Honda.

Irvine and Barrichello were both the best obtainable drivers at the time of signing. You could've signed anybody at that time and they would have been a number 2 to Schumacher. He was just that much better than anyone else. I believe you could say the same thing about Alonso during his time at Ferrari but I know that is more contentious.
Agreed.... it does not indicate the "willingness to be a lapdog" philosophy however.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

I wonder do people really think that Perez would settle for number two in a cooperative way? I doubt that. So, if you want to hire an ambitious driver, then you have to go for Verstappen. If you target a cooperative number two, then continuing with KR may be the safest option. Thus, I do not think that Perez is really in the running at Ferrari - but of course I can be totally wrong here.

How would Perez perform vis-a-vis Vettel?

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Blake wrote:
Multi69 wrote:Barichello, Massa, Raikkonen.

Name the next submissive #2 driver for Ferrari. It's Perez.
Baloney.....

At the time that Rubens was signed he was the best available driver and one who had shown considerable promise.

When Kimi was signed, the second time, he was arguably the best available driver and in this forum Ferrari was hailed for signing him... talking about what a pairing they had now.

Massa was one of the more promising drivers when he was signed, but I don't remember who else was available.
When KR was signed to Ferrari for the second time, this was hailed mostly by KR-fans. Many others were doubting how this was an improvement over Massa - and they were right in hindsight.
;)

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Blake »

No... many in this forum...not just Kimi fans, were wanting to see Kimi go to Ferrari as he had looked good the previous year(s). And many were saying that Ferrari would never do it as they don't have 2 top drivers in their team. The old "lapdog" belief catching them out.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by moby »

sorry, double post
Last edited by moby on Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by moby »

From a drivers viewpoint, its easier to ask forgiveness than permission, and a job.
Grab the job, then follow the rules, mostly :twisted: Difficult to bollok someone for disobeying when they have just been on the top step.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by UnlikeUday »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:I wonder do people really think that Perez would settle for number two in a cooperative way? I doubt that. So, if you want to hire an ambitious driver, then you have to go for Verstappen. If you target a cooperative number two, then continuing with KR may be the safest option. Thus, I do not think that Perez is really in the running at Ferrari - but of course I can be totally wrong here.

How would Perez perform vis-a-vis Vettel?
It's very easy to underestimate Perez but he's achieved a lot in midfield cars. Getting podiums in a midfield car has to be 1 of the toughest tasks in F1 if not the toughest.

When (and if) he were to be offered a Ferrari contract, he would surely know his role & limitations (if any). A top team will highlight all the points more clearly when compared to a midfield team such as Force India.

With regards to Vettel Vs. Perez, I do believe it will be close, just as how it is between Hamilton & Bottas. No one even assumed Bottas would be so closely matched to Hamilton.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by mcdo »

Option or Prime wrote:
shoot999 wrote:Yup. Offer any driver Vettel or Hamiltons seat, and they would all grab the Ferrari. ;)
Are you sure about that, in a choice between a car that will probably win a WDC and one that has a chance of winning a WDC any driver would take the car that gives them the best chance over the historical icons surely!

The young drivers of today are hungry for success, like all of that generation today, whatever gives them that the quickest is favourite.
Jean Alesi chose Ferrari over his best opportunity to win a WDC. You could say Schumacher walked away from his best opportunity to win a 3rd WDC to join Ferrari (but he had many reasons)
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by mikeyg123 »

mcdo wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
shoot999 wrote:Yup. Offer any driver Vettel or Hamiltons seat, and they would all grab the Ferrari. ;)
Are you sure about that, in a choice between a car that will probably win a WDC and one that has a chance of winning a WDC any driver would take the car that gives them the best chance over the historical icons surely!

The young drivers of today are hungry for success, like all of that generation today, whatever gives them that the quickest is favourite.
Jean Alesi chose Ferrari over his best opportunity to win a WDC. You could say Schumacher walked away from his best opportunity to win a 3rd WDC to join Ferrari (but he had many reasons)
In Alesi's case that was with the benefit of hindsight. He signed for Ferrari in 1990 when they were competing for the championship. The Williams Renault had potential but that's all it was at that stage. He signed for the better performing team at the time.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by moby »

mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
shoot999 wrote:Yup. Offer any driver Vettel or Hamiltons seat, and they would all grab the Ferrari. ;)
Are you sure about that, in a choice between a car that will probably win a WDC and one that has a chance of winning a WDC any driver would take the car that gives them the best chance over the historical icons surely!

The young drivers of today are hungry for success, like all of that generation today, whatever gives them that the quickest is favourite.
Jean Alesi chose Ferrari over his best opportunity to win a WDC. You could say Schumacher walked away from his best opportunity to win a 3rd WDC to join Ferrari (but he had many reasons)
In Alesi's case that was with the benefit of hindsight. He signed for Ferrari in 1990 when they were competing for the championship. The Williams Renault had potential but that's all it was at that stage. He signed for the better performing team at the time.

Ferrari management talk a good fight, always have. 'drive for us, we have things in the pipeline and are going to be champions next year'. Most years it sort of fizzles out, and the (potential) driver can easily get carried along in the hype.
So many Ferrari fans patting them on the back and saying welcome to the team it must be hard to keep a level mind for the decision

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Blake wrote:No... many in this forum...not just Kimi fans, were wanting to see Kimi go to Ferrari as he had looked good the previous year(s). And many were saying that Ferrari would never do it as they don't have 2 top drivers in their team. The old "lapdog" belief catching them out.
... and many others questioned the sense of replacing Massa with someone who has hardly beaten him as a teammate. And assumed that Ferrari would not do this: replacing someone who was getting dominated by someone who was known not to be better, just more expensive.

;)

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by funkymonkey »

moby wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
shoot999 wrote:Yup. Offer any driver Vettel or Hamiltons seat, and they would all grab the Ferrari. ;)
Are you sure about that, in a choice between a car that will probably win a WDC and one that has a chance of winning a WDC any driver would take the car that gives them the best chance over the historical icons surely!

The young drivers of today are hungry for success, like all of that generation today, whatever gives them that the quickest is favourite.
Jean Alesi chose Ferrari over his best opportunity to win a WDC. You could say Schumacher walked away from his best opportunity to win a 3rd WDC to join Ferrari (but he had many reasons)
In Alesi's case that was with the benefit of hindsight. He signed for Ferrari in 1990 when they were competing for the championship. The Williams Renault had potential but that's all it was at that stage. He signed for the better performing team at the time.

Ferrari management talk a good fight, always have. 'drive for us, we have things in the pipeline and are going to be champions next year'. Most years it sort of fizzles out, and the (potential) driver can easily get carried along in the hype.
So many Ferrari fans patting them on the back and saying welcome to the team it must be hard to keep a level mind for the decision
At the end of the day, only Ferrari and McLaren have managed to bounce back over the years from prolonged bad or mediocre patch. That is why drivers gravitate to Ferrari and McLaren.

Mercedes might be new hot team like Redbull was before. But can anyone here be certain of their participation or level of involvement 5 years or 10 years down the line?
Mercedes might be but nobody else can guarantee that. And you can bet your 10 bucks on the fact that they will produce championship fighting car more often than not.

I think this is the reason why even someone like Vettel and Alonso who once in their career talked down about Ferrari end up being there at some point in their career.

So yeah, Ferrari dont need to trap anyone. They can show them money, but most drivers end up going there because they want to be there. Not because of the carrot dangling.

I wont be surprised to see even Hamilton driving the scarlet car before he hangs up his shoes.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by mac_d »

Like many, I see Kimi in the seat. I don't see Ferrari and Alonso getting back together. Bottas and Hamilton will both stay at Mercedes. Vettel is already in a Ferrari. Verstappen and Ricciardo are both contracted.

So I'd say the best of the available drivers would be Hulkenberg and Perez. While the Kimi we see these weekends isn't the guy that I loved to watch 10+ years ago (McLaren Kimi was amazing imo) he's still a good hand. He doesn't rock the boat and I do believe having a driver with the level of success Kimi has had means it'll be easier if they need him to move over even at the cost of a win or the like. Sainz and Grosjean could also potentially fit that seat. Sainz I think is a little young for Ferrari's general sensibilities. It's hard to say but I think RoGro was improving relative to Kimi a few years ago in the Lotus (Enstone). Maybe he'd be simply faster now.

If I was willing to put a shiny £1 on this, it'd go on Kimi.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Blake »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Blake wrote:No... many in this forum...not just Kimi fans, were wanting to see Kimi go to Ferrari as he had looked good the previous year(s). And many were saying that Ferrari would never do it as they don't have 2 top drivers in their team. The old "lapdog" belief catching them out.
... and many others questioned the sense of replacing Massa with someone who has hardly beaten him as a teammate. And assumed that Ferrari would not do this: replacing someone who was getting dominated by someone who was known not to be better, just more expensive.

;)
Most considered Kimi a significant upgrade, as Massa has long been under appreciated in this forum. Very few, if any, in here questioned it as you say. However, if that is how you want try to to spin it, go ahead.
;)
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by mcdo »

mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
shoot999 wrote:Yup. Offer any driver Vettel or Hamiltons seat, and they would all grab the Ferrari. ;)
Are you sure about that, in a choice between a car that will probably win a WDC and one that has a chance of winning a WDC any driver would take the car that gives them the best chance over the historical icons surely!

The young drivers of today are hungry for success, like all of that generation today, whatever gives them that the quickest is favourite.
Jean Alesi chose Ferrari over his best opportunity to win a WDC. You could say Schumacher walked away from his best opportunity to win a 3rd WDC to join Ferrari (but he had many reasons)
In Alesi's case that was with the benefit of hindsight. He signed for Ferrari in 1990 when they were competing for the championship. The Williams Renault had potential but that's all it was at that stage. He signed for the better performing team at the time.
That does make a lot more sense. I always believed that "went with his heart, not with his head" narrative
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Exediron »

Blake wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Blake wrote:No... many in this forum...not just Kimi fans, were wanting to see Kimi go to Ferrari as he had looked good the previous year(s). And many were saying that Ferrari would never do it as they don't have 2 top drivers in their team. The old "lapdog" belief catching them out.
... and many others questioned the sense of replacing Massa with someone who has hardly beaten him as a teammate. And assumed that Ferrari would not do this: replacing someone who was getting dominated by someone who was known not to be better, just more expensive.

;)
Most considered Kimi a significant upgrade, as Massa has long been under appreciated in this forum. Very few, if any, in here questioned it as you say. However, if that is how you want try to to spin it, go ahead.
;)
Most did indeed think so; the majority opinion - from what I remember of polls and discussions at the time - was that Kimi would be a challenge to Alonso, unlike Massa.

Looking back on it, though, I do believe that Ferrari knew Kimi wasn't going to be Alonso's equal. They weren't putting two top drivers in the same team, and they knew it.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Exediron wrote:
Blake wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Blake wrote:No... many in this forum...not just Kimi fans, were wanting to see Kimi go to Ferrari as he had looked good the previous year(s). And many were saying that Ferrari would never do it as they don't have 2 top drivers in their team. The old "lapdog" belief catching them out.
... and many others questioned the sense of replacing Massa with someone who has hardly beaten him as a teammate. And assumed that Ferrari would not do this: replacing someone who was getting dominated by someone who was known not to be better, just more expensive.

;)
Most considered Kimi a significant upgrade, as Massa has long been under appreciated in this forum. Very few, if any, in here questioned it as you say. However, if that is how you want try to to spin it, go ahead.
;)
Most did indeed think so; the majority opinion - from what I remember of polls and discussions at the time - was that Kimi would be a challenge to Alonso, unlike Massa.

Looking back on it, though, I do believe that Ferrari knew Kimi wasn't going to be Alonso's equal. They weren't putting two top drivers in the same team, and they knew it.
Then why get rid of Massa at all?

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Exediron »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:Most did indeed think so; the majority opinion - from what I remember of polls and discussions at the time - was that Kimi would be a challenge to Alonso, unlike Massa.

Looking back on it, though, I do believe that Ferrari knew Kimi wasn't going to be Alonso's equal. They weren't putting two top drivers in the same team, and they knew it.
Then why get rid of Massa at all?
Well, to be clear, I do think that Ferrari expected Kimi to be better than Massa had been. I just don't think they expected him to challenge Alonso.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

I know that some do not like using teammate performances for deriving driver rankings and I agree that context is needed (a rookie will improve with experience, for instance). However, it is a safer ground than most other assessments and this is a good example. The logic KR = FM and FM < FA offered the conclusion for everyone willing to see: KR < FA. And that's exactly how it is.

I agree that Ferrari was probably capable of that logic as well. But I never understood why spending more for the same quality should be a good idea ....

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Blake »

Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:Most did indeed think so; the majority opinion - from what I remember of polls and discussions at the time - was that Kimi would be a challenge to Alonso, unlike Massa.

Looking back on it, though, I do believe that Ferrari knew Kimi wasn't going to be Alonso's equal. They weren't putting two top drivers in the same team, and they knew it.
Then why get rid of Massa at all?
Well, to be clear, I do think that Ferrari expected Kimi to be better than Massa had been. I just don't think they expected him to challenge Alonso.
Exactly. They thought it would make the team better...as did MOST fans and media. Of course it would have made no sense if they thought they were not improving on Massa.

Lasardi,
the flaw in your equation is you suggest they thought Kimi and Massa were equals. Nothing suggests that was their thinking... nor did the vast majority of others feel that way at the time.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Well, it was easy to see and many said so. Go back and read the comments at that time (in- and outside the forum ;) ) - or stick to selective memory (referring to you insisting on " MOST").

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Blake »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Well, it was easy to see and many said so. Go back and read the comments at that time (in- and outside the forum ;) ) - or stick to selective memory (referring to you insisting on " MOST").
Whatever you say...

I just don't recall many saying that Kimi would NOT be an improvement over Massa or just his equal as you suggest. I do know that I have absolutely NO desire to go back through years of threads to see if you might be right. I did do a quick google search however, and did see these not exactly ambivalent storylines...

"Ferrari who will have arguably the strongest driver line-up in F1..." - BBC

"Kimi Raikkonen's Ferrari comeback a headache for Alonso." - the Guardian

"Ferrari will have the strongest line-up on the grid next year." - Lewis Hamilton

"Both fans and international media have already warmly welcomed the prospect of two of F1's biggest names and talents
going up against each other on the same team..." Sky. ... BTW, they were referencing Nando and Kimi... just to be clear.

Kimi "will join Alonso on a star-studded team." - Autosport

So, I think that I will just trust my memory... even if you deem it "selective". You can trust yours.
;)
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by mcdo »

Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:Most did indeed think so; the majority opinion - from what I remember of polls and discussions at the time - was that Kimi would be a challenge to Alonso, unlike Massa.

Looking back on it, though, I do believe that Ferrari knew Kimi wasn't going to be Alonso's equal. They weren't putting two top drivers in the same team, and they knew it.
Then why get rid of Massa at all?
Well, to be clear, I do think that Ferrari expected Kimi to be better than Massa had been. I just don't think they expected him to challenge Alonso.
Or the other popular theory, they thought Alonso was leaving and Kimi was signed as insurance
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Blake wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Well, it was easy to see and many said so. Go back and read the comments at that time (in- and outside the forum ;) ) - or stick to selective memory (referring to you insisting on " MOST").
Whatever you say...

I just don't recall many saying that Kimi would NOT be an improvement over Massa or just his equal as you suggest. I do know that I have absolutely NO desire to go back through years of threads to see if you might be right. I did do a quick google search however, and did see these not exactly ambivalent storylines...

"Ferrari who will have arguably the strongest driver line-up in F1..." - BBC

"Kimi Raikkonen's Ferrari comeback a headache for Alonso." - the Guardian

"Ferrari will have the strongest line-up on the grid next year." - Lewis Hamilton

"Both fans and international media have already warmly welcomed the prospect of two of F1's biggest names and talents
going up against each other on the same team..." Sky. ... BTW, they were referencing Nando and Kimi... just to be clear.

Kimi "will join Alonso on a star-studded team." - Autosport

So, I think that I will just trust my memory... even if you deem it "selective". You can trust yours.
;)
Well, a nice selective selection ... :lol:
... not representative at all, of course.

Whatever, at the end of the day, those who were not considering KR to be an upgrade on FM have been right, as was to be expected.
If it is true that KR earns more than FM that this was a bad management decision. And continuing it does not make it better.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Blake »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Blake wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Well, it was easy to see and many said so. Go back and read the comments at that time (in- and outside the forum ;) ) - or stick to selective memory (referring to you insisting on " MOST").
Whatever you say...

I just don't recall many saying that Kimi would NOT be an improvement over Massa or just his equal as you suggest. I do know that I have absolutely NO desire to go back through years of threads to see if you might be right. I did do a quick google search however, and did see these not exactly ambivalent storylines...

"Ferrari who will have arguably the strongest driver line-up in F1..." - BBC

"Kimi Raikkonen's Ferrari comeback a headache for Alonso." - the Guardian

"Ferrari will have the strongest line-up on the grid next year." - Lewis Hamilton

"Both fans and international media have already warmly welcomed the prospect of two of F1's biggest names and talents
going up against each other on the same team..." Sky. ... BTW, they were referencing Nando and Kimi... just to be clear.

Kimi "will join Alonso on a star-studded team." - Autosport

So, I think that I will just trust my memory... even if you deem it "selective". You can trust yours.
;)
Well, a nice selective selection ... :lol:
... not representative at all, of course.

Whatever, at the end of the day, those who were not considering KR to be an upgrade on FM have been right, as was to be expected.
If it is true that KR earns more than FM that this was a bad management decision. And continuing it does not make it better.
Then show us "representative". I, at least, posted examples of my stance, all you have done is attempt to put me down with "selective" memory and "selective" selection comments. Whether or not, it was a good decision or not by Ferrari is sure easier to assess three years later... they did not have that advantage as you do. They did what they, and apparently, most (in lieu of contrary evidence) thought was a move to improve their driver line-up.

Show us the MANY examples of those who... at the time... did not feel that Kimi was an upgrade over Massa as you claim. Few in here apparently remember it that way and my quick google search only saw one negative article and that was based on Schumi's concern that the pairing could be "explosive", but his comment was not about Kimi not being better than Massa, it was about potential fireworks within the team.

BTW, I was, and am, a fan of Massa's and have supported him many times in here. I had no problem with him in the Ferrari seat. I was among the few in here, who rated him a "tier 1" driver. Despite my feelings, however, I too thought the Alonso/Raikkonen pairing was an upgrade at the time.
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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by Robot »

Ferrari is always super safe with their drivers, I expect one more year for Kimi and a new 3 year contract for Vettel.

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Re: What's Going to Happen at Ferrari Next Year?

Post by UnlikeUday »

Robot wrote:Ferrari is always super safe with their drivers, I expect one more year for Kimi and a new 3 year contract for Vettel.
Yeah! Even if that means Kimi finishes lower than both of the Red Bull drivers.
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