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Longnose wrote:I don't understand why Sergio Marchionne and Ferrari are "not interested in Alonso". Was it something Alonso did, is it that they have other prospects, or do they think that there will be too much friction between their current No. 1 driver and Alonso?

The reason I am confused is that Ferrari took Kimi Raikkonen back in 2014 after buying out his contract at the end of 2009, and now Sergio is calling Kimmi a "laggard". I didn't think that Alonso burned the Ferrari bridge when he left to go to McLaren. I mean McLaren paid him a lot of money and during the time Alonso was at Ferrari, they never gave him a very competitive car. What am I missing?

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:I never thought Alonso was on his way back to Ferrari.

But Marchionne has now dismissed Alonso, Verstappen, Perez recently, while (rightfully) criticizing Räikkönen. So, where are they heading? Another lame one-year extension for a demoralised KR? A new devote number two
for Vettel (who)?

IMO, the stupid thing is to dismiss Verstappen. He is the future superstar.

Zoue wrote:I think one possible difference is what Lauda alluded to: Alonso broke his contract at Ferrari when he left them, so Ferrari were unhappy at that and may perceive it as disloyal. With Kimi Ferrari were the ones to break contract. Hypocritical, maybe, but it's a possoble scenario

UnlikeUday wrote:Wonder why Alonso was so positive during the Baku weekend for 2018?
If the 3 big teams don't want him, I'm sure he's not excited about joining Renault.
Wonder if he's making a switch outside F1.

VDV23 wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if SM is drafting the contact for Alonso while he's saying that he's not interested in him. It just that way it is in sports, you deny until it is official.

I'm not saying they are working on bringing back Fernando, just that I wouldn't surprised if they did.

VDV23 wrote:I wouldn't be surprised if SM is drafting the contact for Alonso while he's saying that he's not interested in him. It just that way it is in sports, you deny until it is official.

I'm not saying they are working on bringing back Fernando, just that I wouldn't surprised if they did.

Rockie wrote:This is bound to happen as if I were a team principal or owner, I see no benefit in hiring Alonso.

If he wins it is described as his god like driving, and if it goes the other way its the car that is useless.

mcdo wrote:I don't know why Ferrari or Merc would go for him. I will admit I started to get my hopes up with all the talk of late, coupled with that positive response to Sky's question about his future. Ferrari seemed more believable than Merc... but still didn't really add up

Who should Ferrari get to replace Kimi if there are no Red Bull drivers available? How about a multi-year deal for Bottas, snatch him while Merc are dawdling

As for Alonso, maybe in Baku McLaren told him the Merc engine deal was signed

RaggedMan wrote:It only makes sense for Ferrari to sign Alonso if they're sure that Seb will walk instead of extend. Having one driver who is a multi-WDC and in his prime paired with a former WDC who is near retirement isn't working for them now, and while I'm sure Alonso would be doing a better job in races than Kimi is, that combination doesn't help them in the near to long future.

They don't seem to have any prospects that they're particularly high on in their junior program so they're most likely to snipe a Perez, Sainz, etc. for a couple of years until Leclerc or Giovanzzi show something at Haas or Sauber.

hairy_scotsman wrote:

RaggedMan wrote:It only makes sense for Ferrari to sign Alonso if they're sure that Seb will walk instead of extend. Having one driver who is a multi-WDC and in his prime paired with a former WDC who is near retirement isn't working for them now, and while I'm sure Alonso would be doing a better job in races than Kimi is, that combination doesn't help them in the near to long future.

They don't seem to have any prospects that they're particularly high on in their junior program so they're most likely to snipe a Perez, Sainz, etc. for a couple of years until Leclerc or Giovanzzi show something at Haas or Sauber.

I frequently hear this talk of Ferrari or others needing a "longer term" solution than Alonso. I don't buy it.

What is the "long term" to you? What is it to an F1 team? In F1, 3 years is an eternity, and we rarely hear of contracts longer than that. I would say Alonso is still in his prime. You think Alonso's not good for another 3 years of excellence? I think he is.

In addition, I'd think almost any team would love to have Alonso on board heading into the new engine regs in 2020 or 2021.

F1 MERCENARY wrote: Alonso is not much different than any other top tier driver in what they demand. Vettel has placed Ferrari under the microscope so many times since he's been with them, that perhaps they're leaning on the fence more towards the side of having had enough of his tirades.

F1 MERCENARY wrote: His last one in Baku was a rather bad one to the point their man cannot be featured in any road safety events or advertisements for the rest of the season. Last year he literally told Charlie Whiting to go fly a kite with rather colorful language we've all heard fart too often by now, and his incessant angry whining about blue flags doesn't help his or Ferrari's image much either.

F1 MERCENARY wrote: And for what it's worth, he exercised a lack of performance clause that was specifically agreed to in his contract when he singed with Ferrari. With the incredible revolving door that was Ferrari in his last year with them, AND the struggles the team was experiencing at the time, for anyone to hold a grudge with him over his decision to try his luck elsewhere is a bit childish and misplaced. After all, the drivers are expected to be big boys and handle the reality of situations, yet teams are exempt? Some people seriously need to get over themselves.

RaggedMan wrote:Alonso is definitely good to be putting out good results for the next 3 years and if they can't nail Seb down he's a great replacement. I don't think having them both at the same time is of great benefit to them long term but would probably work out well for the next couple of years. But what if Seb moves on to another team and Alonso retires or moves to WEC at the end of 2019?

If I'm an F1 team owner I'm looking at the next 3 years as near term and 5-7 years long term. If I've got a recent or current WDC and another driver with an established mid-field career under him I'd feel like I'm set for the near term. For years 3-7 down the road I'm going to be looking at my junior drivers and trying to get them into lower teams to see how they do at this level while also developing relationships with promising drivers who are with other teams.

Alonso still has value but he won't forever and you can't stake your future to him is all I'm saying.

jrwb6e wrote:

RaggedMan wrote:Alonso is definitely good to be putting out good results for the next 3 years and if they can't nail Seb down he's a great replacement. I don't think having them both at the same time is of great benefit to them long term but would probably work out well for the next couple of years. But what if Seb moves on to another team and Alonso retires or moves to WEC at the end of 2019?

If I'm an F1 team owner I'm looking at the next 3 years as near term and 5-7 years long term. If I've got a recent or current WDC and another driver with an established mid-field career under him I'd feel like I'm set for the near term. For years 3-7 down the road I'm going to be looking at my junior drivers and trying to get them into lower teams to see how they do at this level while also developing relationships with promising drivers who are with other teams.

Alonso still has value but he won't forever and you can't stake your future to him is all I'm saying.

Alonso is more than a great replacement, he's an upgrade over Seb. You get the speed plus consistency and without all the trouble and drama that Seb causes with the FIA.

SmoothRide wrote:

F1 MERCENARY wrote: Alonso is not much different than any other top tier driver in what they demand. Vettel has placed Ferrari under the microscope so many times since he's been with them, that perhaps they're leaning on the fence more towards the side of having had enough of his tirades.

I am sure they are very "tired" of Vettel leading the WDC since winning the season opener this year.

F1 MERCENARY wrote: His last one in Baku was a rather bad one to the point their man cannot be featured in any road safety events or advertisements for the rest of the season. Last year he literally told Charlie Whiting to go fly a kite with rather colorful language we've all heard fart too often by now, and his incessant angry whining about blue flags doesn't help his or Ferrari's image much either.

Baku incident was the worst thing that Vettel has done in his career, but it's nowhere near the Spygate or Crashgate affairs that Alonso was involved in.

F1 MERCENARY wrote: And for what it's worth, he exercised a lack of performance clause that was specifically agreed to in his contract when he singed with Ferrari. With the incredible revolving door that was Ferrari in his last year with them, AND the struggles the team was experiencing at the time, for anyone to hold a grudge with him over his decision to try his luck elsewhere is a bit childish and misplaced. After all, the drivers are expected to be big boys and handle the reality of situations, yet teams are exempt? Some people seriously need to get over themselves.

He left Ferrari when they needed him so they can (and probably do) hold a grudge. Is it fair? I don't know, but it doesn't really matter. F1 is a cutthroat environment. Why should they take him back now when he is 35 years old, has a history of causing disruption, and would greatly complicate internal team politics?

F1 MERCENARY wrote:People shouldn't spread false rumors because they tend to grow to become the gospel, however untrue they may be.

RaggedMan wrote:

jrwb6e wrote:

RaggedMan wrote:Alonso is definitely good to be putting out good results for the next 3 years and if they can't nail Seb down he's a great replacement. I don't think having them both at the same time is of great benefit to them long term but would probably work out well for the next couple of years. But what if Seb moves on to another team and Alonso retires or moves to WEC at the end of 2019?

If I'm an F1 team owner I'm looking at the next 3 years as near term and 5-7 years long term. If I've got a recent or current WDC and another driver with an established mid-field career under him I'd feel like I'm set for the near term. For years 3-7 down the road I'm going to be looking at my junior drivers and trying to get them into lower teams to see how they do at this level while also developing relationships with promising drivers who are with other teams.

Alonso still has value but he won't forever and you can't stake your future to him is all I'm saying.

Alonso is more than a great replacement, he's an upgrade over Seb. You get the speed plus consistency and without all the trouble and drama that Seb causes with the FIA.

What about all the trouble and drama that Alonso causes the team? And I'm not talking about Crashgate or Spygate, but rather the comments like "the team doesn't want me to win" at Renault the complaints about the car at Ferrari and now at McLaren. Even when the complaints about the car are valid they don't always have to be aired in public the way Alonso does.

None of the top drivers are drama free and likely never will be.

F1 MERCENARY wrote:He left Ferrari when they needed him so they can (and probably do) hold a grudge. Is it fair? I don't know, but it doesn't really matter. F1 is a cutthroat environment. Why should they take him back now when he is 35 years old, has a history of causing disruption, and would greatly complicate internal team politics?
You miss the point. They are obviously pleased that Vettel is doing well in the championship but I'm also pretty sure they REALLY don't think his antics are anything they want to associate their brand with. They are afterall, the darling of the series and of the Supercar world, and to have such poor behavior from a person adorned head to toe in red with prancing horses all over the place is representative of their prestigious brand.

Don't know how you didn't get that and are so readily dismissive of it. Essentially you are saying a driver can behave as he pleases so long as he's ahead in the championship. Poor argument there.

Spygate was a serious issue BUT Alonso was not alone in the entire fiasco and was but one of the several people involved. If anyone was in such a position would they have handled it any differently? Not saying anyone was justified in such a scenario, but painted into a corner in such fashion, you'd eventually have enough of it too and play your hand and call their bluff.

Regarding Crashgate, as far as I am aware, after all the evidence was read and heard, I'm fairly certain that Alonso was found to be COMPLETELY innocent in the entire incident and had no idea is teammate was bullied into crashing on purpose so he could get the team the win.

"The World Motor Sport Council thanked him for cooperating with the FIA’s enquiries and for attending the meeting, and concluded that Mr. Alonso was not in any way involved in Renault F1’s breach of the regulations. This we think means that the Spaniard was not aware about the conspiracy to earn him the victory!"

http://www.f1pulse.com/news/2009092150/ ... ry-hearing

People shouldn't spread false rumors because they tend to grow to become the gospel, however untrue they may be.


He left Ferrari at a time when they needed him?…

The one thing I will agree with you on is that F1 is definitely cutthroat, and no team is more cutthroat than Ferrari. LOL What They did to Michael in 2006, more specifically LDM is likely the most cold blooded thing in the history of the sport, and it was done to the person who took them from flailing embarrassment to most dominant contender ever! And though many will argue those are rumors, they are in fact not rumors.

WARNING, long read, but very good: http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 8d#p395732

And if that wasn't enough, 3 years later, they do even worse to the guy they axed him out for! LOLOLOL

So just as I say with ALL professional sports teams, Why should they get to hold all of the cards and dictate how everyone's career and lives go when it's the athletes that put it all on the line for the sports and teams? To that I say baloney!!!

Alonso did what he felt was in his best interest precisely the same way all teams do, thinking only of what's best for them. He did absolutely nothing wrong in departing the team.

Alienturnedhuman wrote:I am glad Alonso is not at Ferrari. I would have hated spending the last 2 weeks reading all the arguments about Hamilton rear-ending him behind the Safety Car at Baku.

The only way I could see him moving there is if Vettel moves to Mercedes - but that's unlikely at the moment as Ferrari have had the stronger package this season (although Merc has been slightly faster when they have got their car to work properly) Ferrari has better aero, and they are gaining on Mercedes on overall engine performance.

If Vettel stays at Ferrari I would think it was more likely Hamilton would move to Ferrari and Alonso take his Merc seat than Ferrari put Alonso with Vettel.

Blinky McSquinty wrote:Formula One is a result-driven business. Wins, championships, and good results are the fuel that drives any team forward. You may have the most charismatic driver in the universe, but if he does not produce results, it is all in vain. I mentioned the word "business" because this is very relevant. Teams look at drivers and situations not emotionally, but from a very cold and calculating viewpoint.

There is a lot going on within the Formula One community, little we ever hear of. Drivers constantly communicate with other teams, and vice versa with the intent of feeling each other out, and exploring options. Every so often Eddie Jordan may get a tidbit and spill the beans, but Formula One has big ears and the grapevine(s) is intense. Mechanics talk to other mechanics, team principles talk to each other, the word of anything big spreads very quickly.

So unfortunately, we the fans get very little of the true picture,most of it is a landscape of fantasy painted by some pundit who mows little and has a huge imagination. As far as temperamental or difficult driver,s the sport has always had them and currently has a full larder. But when a team and driver do decide to agree on a contract, those can be lengthly and full of penalty and release clauses.

And forget any Red Bull driver going anywhere in the near future, Red Bull know how to keep their drivers within the organization. Of course Vettel was an exception, but he wanted to go, and with his four time WDC status, was asking more than the organization was willing to pay. Red Bull usually pay their drivers a pittance, and instead have generous performance bonuses. So a very expensive Vettle was let go, and a much cheaper driver with just as much potential (Ricciardo) because number one.

IMO Alonso can go to any team with a spare seat, his past indiscretions mean little when talent is the prime factor.

We are approximately half way through the season, and Ferrari need Raikkonen. They have a realistic chance of winning both the WDC and MDC. So Ferrari may be saying what is politically correct for them, supporting Raikkonen. That is the public noise, but behind the scene all kinds of sculduggery may be going on.