Max is Out-Performing Daniel (Believe it or Not)

Forum rules
Please read the forum rules
kleefton
Posts: 4015
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:14 pm

Re: Max is Out-Performing Daniel (Believe it or Not)

Post by kleefton »

I predict that Ricciardo is going to lose to the Hulk in qualifying next year. I am not sold on his ability with these current generation of cars. The gap to Verstappen is too often too big. That can only mean that he is leaving too much time on the table too often.

User avatar
Toby.
Posts: 2834
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:09 am
Location: Perth, Australia

Re: Max is Out-Performing Daniel (Believe it or Not)

Post by Toby. »

kleefton wrote:I predict that Ricciardo is going to lose to the Hulk in qualifying next year. I am not sold on his ability with these current generation of cars. The gap to Verstappen is too often too big. That can only mean that he is leaving too much time on the table too often.
I wouldn't be so confident. There is the occasional outlier where it's a few tenths, but from my memory it's generally within 0.150s in qualifying. I think they're the two closest in qualifying (races like Singapore excepted).
Image

sandman1347
Posts: 6977
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm

Re: Max is Out-Performing Daniel (Believe it or Not)

Post by sandman1347 »

kleefton wrote:I predict that Ricciardo is going to lose to the Hulk in qualifying next year. I am not sold on his ability with these current generation of cars. The gap to Verstappen is too often too big. That can only mean that he is leaving too much time on the table too often.
Funny because after winning his second GP of the season in Monaco, Daniel's stock was perhaps as high as it had ever been. Since then though, he has looked like a #2 driver relative to Max. I find myself scratching my head at the performance difference. This is a battering and it can't all be explained away by reliability issues. It raises questions; both about Daniel and about Max. I have to allow myself to at least consider the possibility that Daniel's career-defining 2014 season may have been somewhat flukey. Alternatively, I must also consider the possibility that Max is just freakishly fast. Perhaps there's a bit of both?

pokerman
Posts: 35612
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Max is Out-Performing Daniel (Believe it or Not)

Post by pokerman »

Llotyhy wrote:This shouldn't even be a discussion anymore. I can't even remember the last time Ricciardo looked genuinely quicker in either a qualy or a race. It must have been months ago. Apart from Vandoorne by Alonso and Ericsson from Leclerc, there's no one on the grid more comprehensively outclassed than Ricciardo.
Yeah Ricciardo made the right decision to join Renault before his reputation gets too badly damaged if it hasn't happened already?
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 94 (1st)
Pole Positions: 97 (1st)
Podiums: 163 (1st)


PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion

pokerman
Posts: 35612
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm

Re: Max is Out-Performing Daniel (Believe it or Not)

Post by pokerman »

Pullrod wrote:Honestly, the only worse teammate head to head in qualifying might be Alonso vs Vandoorne.
Ricciardo is being beaten left and right but for the many "experts" the mediocre driver is Carlos Sainz jr.

There is no chance Verstappen would put that kind of gaps on Sainz Jr. if they were teammate but for some reason Daniel Ricciardo is stil considered by many "Top Dog" who would perform better than Bottas and beat Hamilton. Laughable. Daniel is overrated and has always been and the RedBull is actually a very good car but in bad hands.
Third worse teammate you are forgetting Ericsson. :)
Lewis Hamilton #44

World Drivers Titles: 7 (1st)
Grand Prix Wins: 94 (1st)
Pole Positions: 97 (1st)
Podiums: 163 (1st)


PF1 Pick 10 Competition
2014: Champion

kleefton
Posts: 4015
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:14 pm

Re: Max is Out-Performing Daniel (Believe it or Not)

Post by kleefton »

Toby. wrote:
kleefton wrote:I predict that Ricciardo is going to lose to the Hulk in qualifying next year. I am not sold on his ability with these current generation of cars. The gap to Verstappen is too often too big. That can only mean that he is leaving too much time on the table too often.
I wouldn't be so confident. There is the occasional outlier where it's a few tenths, but from my memory it's generally within 0.150s in qualifying. I think they're the two closest in qualifying (races like Singapore excepted).
I remember looking at it last year, and to be honest, it is quite a few times that he has been very far from Verstappen's pace. I don't know how the average is coming to .150. It surely doesn't seem or feel like it to me. I will try and go over it again. But when is the last time Ricciardo outqualified Max on merit?

Mind you I still expect Ricciardo to beat Hulk on race day more often than not, because he is by far the superior racer but on Saturday I think he will struggle.

kleefton
Posts: 4015
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:14 pm

Re: Max is Out-Performing Daniel (Believe it or Not)

Post by kleefton »

sandman1347 wrote:
kleefton wrote:I predict that Ricciardo is going to lose to the Hulk in qualifying next year. I am not sold on his ability with these current generation of cars. The gap to Verstappen is too often too big. That can only mean that he is leaving too much time on the table too often.
Funny because after winning his second GP of the season in Monaco, Daniel's stock was perhaps as high as it had ever been. Since then though, he has looked like a #2 driver relative to Max. I find myself scratching my head at the performance difference. This is a battering and it can't all be explained away by reliability issues. It raises questions; both about Daniel and about Max. I have to allow myself to at least consider the possibility that Daniel's career-defining 2014 season may have been somewhat flukey. Alternatively, I must also consider the possibility that Max is just freakishly fast. Perhaps there's a bit of both?
Yeah I think it is probably a combination of both. But imo Ricc got so lucky Max put it in the wall in fp3 at Monaco. If I remember correctly he was quicker all weekend until he binned it.

User avatar
Exediron
Posts: 8227
Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Location: Michigan, USA
Contact:

Re: Max is Out-Performing Daniel (Believe it or Not)

Post by Exediron »

kleefton wrote:Yeah I think it is probably a combination of both. But imo Ricc got so lucky Max put it in the wall in fp3 at Monaco. If I remember correctly he was quicker all weekend until he binned it.
You do not remember correctly. Ricciardo topped every practice session - Max was about 2 tenths behind all weekend.

He still would have won the race, mind you, since Ricciardo had his gearbox problem.
PICK 10 COMPETITION (6 wins, 18 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017 & 2019
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion

kleefton
Posts: 4015
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:14 pm

Re: Max is Out-Performing Daniel (Believe it or Not)

Post by kleefton »

Exediron wrote:
kleefton wrote:Yeah I think it is probably a combination of both. But imo Ricc got so lucky Max put it in the wall in fp3 at Monaco. If I remember correctly he was quicker all weekend until he binned it.
You do not remember correctly. Ricciardo topped every practice session - Max was about 2 tenths behind all weekend.

He still would have won the race, mind you, since Ricciardo had his gearbox problem.

Lap for lap Verstappen was quicker. I did forget that ricc topped the practice sessions but whenever he bested max it was always on a more evolved track. So Max never got a chance to answer Ricciardos laps in any of the practice sessions.

The reason I remember is because I was following the live timing and you understand what is unfolding better that way than just looking at the final results.

User avatar
Lotus49
Posts: 5273
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 3:36 pm

Re: Max is Out-Performing Daniel (Believe it or Not)

Post by Lotus49 »

kleefton wrote:
Exediron wrote:
kleefton wrote:Yeah I think it is probably a combination of both. But imo Ricc got so lucky Max put it in the wall in fp3 at Monaco. If I remember correctly he was quicker all weekend until he binned it.
You do not remember correctly. Ricciardo topped every practice session - Max was about 2 tenths behind all weekend.

He still would have won the race, mind you, since Ricciardo had his gearbox problem.

Lap for lap Verstappen was quicker. I did forget that ricc topped the practice sessions but whenever he bested max it was always on a more evolved track. So Max never got a chance to answer Ricciardos laps in any of the practice sessions.

The reason I remember is because I was following the live timing and you understand what is unfolding better that way than just looking at the final results.
If we're talking about Monaco this year then remember Dan didn't have a MGU-K in the race, it failed. If we're talking about just the FP's then ignore me.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

Post Reply