CHINA F1 RACING TEAM LIMITED

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F1 MERCENARY
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Re: CHINA F1 RACING TEAM LIMITED

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

funkymonkey wrote:IMHO, F1 management needs to block the entry if government is involved in funding and running the team. That is big no no. Specially if its coming from socialist government that is socialist on paper but acts more like capitalistic dictator.

This is why I was also not comfortable with Williams sponsorship with state agency. But that wasrs absolute limit of what is ok in this sport IMHO.
F afar
If it is privately funded and owned, no problem. Call it whatever they want to call it including China F1.

But at no stage government should be owner of a Formula 1 team. I hope new F1 management handles this carefully.
With the state of affairs in F1 the last 20 years, with absurdly astronomical budgets required to do even respectably well, a team backed by a government should be welcomed by anyone interested in the long term future of the sport. Furthermore, Russia has a pretty good track record funding sports teams or individuals and have not interfered in the every day dealings in any of those sports. The olympics was a unique sack altogether so I cannot pile that in the same category.

In Professional paintball, the Russian government took interest in a prop team who after a couple of years qualified to the big leagues and played in the NPPL and the NXL and the only thing they received from the Russian government was the funding and salaries for their roster. The funding allowed them to practice and play the sport at a much higher level than when they all had regular jobs and juggled playing in between their everyday lives. All this was only possible due to government funding but as their level of play increased sponsors came a knocking. Even still, the government continued to give them money because they knew it would allow the team to represent their country proudly in the most popular and most widely played extreme sport on the planet.

I think government involvement is just fine if it's handled similarly and the fact of the matter is that liberty is really on the ball and they won't allow anyone to dictate how they want to run the sport.
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mcdo
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Re: CHINA F1 RACING TEAM LIMITED

Post by mcdo »

funkymonkey wrote:
mcdo wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:IMHO, F1 management needs to block the entry if government is involved in funding and running the team. That is big no no. Specially if its coming from socialist government that is socialist on paper but acts more like capitalistic dictator.

This is why I was also not comfortable with Williams sponsorship with state agency. But that was absolute limit of what is ok in this sport IMHO.

If it is privately funded and owned, no problem. Call it whatever they want to call it including China F1.

But at no stage government should be owner of a Formula 1 team. I hope new F1 management handles this carefully.
If F1 has been happy to race in Bahrain all these years they'll be happy to welcome our new Chinese overlords
We have been racing in China and Abu Dhabi as well.
Hosting an event and government being part of an active F1 team are different things.
I would say hosting the event, displaying the country as a glorious and tranquil tourist haven, is worse. I mean North Korea go to the Olympics and the World Cup. But they won't be setting up an Olympic village in Pyongyang any time soon
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mikeyg123
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Re: CHINA F1 RACING TEAM LIMITED

Post by mikeyg123 »

Don't the Bahrainis own a large chunk of Mclaren?

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moby
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Re: CHINA F1 RACING TEAM LIMITED

Post by moby »

mikeyg123 wrote:Don't the Bahrainis own a large chunk of Mclaren?
Mumtalakat own (i think) 50% and Mansour Ojjeh owns a further 25%

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Re: CHINA F1 RACING TEAM LIMITED

Post by Paolo_Lasardi »

Mercedes is partly owned by Kuwait, Renault by France, McLaren by Bahrain, and Ferrari has several state share owners (Qatar, Abu Dhabi, etc.). Why would Chinese government money be different?

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Re: CHINA F1 RACING TEAM LIMITED

Post by j man »

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Mercedes is partly owned by Kuwait, Renault by France, McLaren by Bahrain, and Ferrari has several state share owners (Qatar, Abu Dhabi, etc.). Why would Chinese government money be different?
I guess the difference is that, with the exception of Renault, the examples you name are investments where the 'state' involved is looking to make a profit and they tend to be a largely invisible presence. I'd wager that most F1 fans have no idea that McLaren are 50% Bahraini-owned. Personally I had no idea the Kuwaiti government was connected with Mercedes.

From my perspective, any new investment into F1 should be a good thing. My only concern would be if this is to be a state-run operation with a primarily political aim - I feel they'd throw obscene amounts of money at it, happy to make whatever loss is required to win, and distort the competition. This appears to be the direction that the Chinese football league has taken, with some utterly crazy transfer fees and salaries being offered for some of the world's best players recently.

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Re: CHINA F1 RACING TEAM LIMITED

Post by Zoue »

j man wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Mercedes is partly owned by Kuwait, Renault by France, McLaren by Bahrain, and Ferrari has several state share owners (Qatar, Abu Dhabi, etc.). Why would Chinese government money be different?
I guess the difference is that, with the exception of Renault, the examples you name are investments where the 'state' involved is looking to make a profit and they tend to be a largely invisible presence. I'd wager that most F1 fans have no idea that McLaren are 50% Bahraini-owned. Personally I had no idea the Kuwaiti government was connected with Mercedes.

From my perspective, any new investment into F1 should be a good thing. My only concern would be if this is to be a state-run operation with a primarily political aim - I feel they'd throw obscene amounts of money at it, happy to make whatever loss is required to win, and distort the competition. This appears to be the direction that the Chinese football league has taken, with some utterly crazy transfer fees and salaries being offered for some of the world's best players recently.
Don't Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari all throw obscene amounts of money at it (McLaren, too, IIRC)? I don'think the practice is unusual.

But the McHonda experience should show that throwing money at F1 today is not the guarantee of success you might think it is

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Re: CHINA F1 RACING TEAM LIMITED

Post by j man »

Zoue wrote:
j man wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Mercedes is partly owned by Kuwait, Renault by France, McLaren by Bahrain, and Ferrari has several state share owners (Qatar, Abu Dhabi, etc.). Why would Chinese government money be different?
I guess the difference is that, with the exception of Renault, the examples you name are investments where the 'state' involved is looking to make a profit and they tend to be a largely invisible presence. I'd wager that most F1 fans have no idea that McLaren are 50% Bahraini-owned. Personally I had no idea the Kuwaiti government was connected with Mercedes.

From my perspective, any new investment into F1 should be a good thing. My only concern would be if this is to be a state-run operation with a primarily political aim - I feel they'd throw obscene amounts of money at it, happy to make whatever loss is required to win, and distort the competition. This appears to be the direction that the Chinese football league has taken, with some utterly crazy transfer fees and salaries being offered for some of the world's best players recently.
Don't Mercedes, Red Bull and Ferrari all throw obscene amounts of money at it (McLaren, too, IIRC)? I don'think the practice is unusual.

But the McHonda experience should show that throwing money at F1 today is not the guarantee of success you might think it is
They do indeed. But, although I obviously have no idea of the details of their finances, I get the impression that they are all financially sustainable. They are businesses with shareholders looking for a long term profit after all. There's nothing wrong with making a large initial investment with a view to it turning profitable in the long term, after all it's exactly what Red Bull did. But I worry that a 'politically-driven' state-run team would have no such ambition and would gladly throw money at it year after year, completely distorting the playing field. Much as the likes of Baku and Abu Dhabi have done for the F1 circuits. Now we stand to lose Silverstone as a result.

Anyway just a fear I have. If it is a genuine business venture then F1 can only stand to benefit from new investment.

Absolutely agree though that throwing money at it doesn't guarantee success. Toyota are perhaps an even better example.

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moby
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Re: CHINA F1 RACING TEAM LIMITED

Post by moby »

BTW, just saying like, but Volvo are owned by a Chinese company, and will be producing cars in China soon and selling them in Europe.

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Re: CHINA F1 RACING TEAM LIMITED

Post by dompclarke »

moby wrote:BTW, just saying like, but Volvo are owned by a Chinese company, and will be producing cars in China soon and selling them in Europe.
Volvo F1, have to get Jackie Stewart involved as he already has a flat cap!

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