planetf1.com

pokerman wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:Ricciardo on the market for 2019, RBR will not renew contract with him.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-red- ... ernatives/

I don't believe it said that, it said they have to look for alternative drivers in case Ricciardo leaves.

It does confirm that Verstappen is contracted for 2019 which I thought he was, so I'm not sure how either Mercedes or Ferrari sign him for 2019?

There's strong rumours that Ricciardo to Ferrari for 2019 is a done deal.

Really, I've not had one sniff of that.

This will be excellent for my performance data, 2 years of Verstappen and Ricciardo, and then multiple years of Vettel and Ricciardo.

What does your performance data generally show? Do you have a dedicated thread for it?

moby wrote: The Red Bull Driver production line seems to have glitched at the moment, and if this does happen who wil be the Red Bull drivers?

Maybe Sainz would be willing to return. If not him, then maybe Gasly if he impresses, and for the first time ever they will attract a non-RBR junior (not counting Webber who was already at Jaguar when they became RBR).

Invade wrote:

pokerman wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:Ricciardo on the market for 2019, RBR will not renew contract with him.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-red- ... ernatives/

I don't believe it said that, it said they have to look for alternative drivers in case Ricciardo leaves.

It does confirm that Verstappen is contracted for 2019 which I thought he was, so I'm not sure how either Mercedes or Ferrari sign him for 2019?

There's strong rumours that Ricciardo to Ferrari for 2019 is a done deal.

Really, I've not had one sniff of that.

This will be excellent for my performance data, 2 years of Verstappen and Ricciardo, and then multiple years of Vettel and Ricciardo.

What does your performance data generally show? Do you have a dedicated thread for it?

I threw some figures about a few months ago or maybe even last year and got a roasting, in part I guess because it didn't favour certain drivers.

So a dedicated thread might be somewhat of a war zone.

The problem at the moment is that it's a bit incomplete because of the lack of correlation for both Verstappen and Ricciardo so that's why I'm pleased if Ricciardo joins Vettel at Ferrari for 2019.

What is quite solid at the moment is:-

Hamilton > 0.08s > Alonso > 0.08s > Vettel

mds wrote:

moby wrote: The Red Bull Driver production line seems to have glitched at the moment, and if this does happen who wil be the Red Bull drivers?

Maybe Sainz would be willing to return. If not him, then maybe Gasly if he impresses, and for the first time ever they will attract a non-RBR junior (not counting Webber who was already at Jaguar when they became RBR).

Sainz is on loan to come back to Red Bull later, 2019 if it's true that Ricciardo is leaving?

I threw some figures about a few months ago or maybe even last year and got a roasting, in part I guess because it didn't favour certain drivers.

So a dedicated thread might be somewhat of a war zone.

The problem at the moment is that it's a bit incomplete because of the lack of correlation for both Verstappen and Ricciardo so that's why I'm pleased if Ricciardo joins Vettel at Ferrari for 2019.

What is quite solid at the moment is:-

Hamilton > 0.08s > Alonso > 0.08s > Vettel

Intriguing...

Maybe consider a thread for it when you feel you've got enough data. How many seasons does your data cover?

Invade wrote: Intriguing...

Maybe consider a thread for it when you feel you've got enough data. How many seasons does your data cover?

From 2007, it actually takes that long to start to make any kind of reasonable cross references.

It has to be said that these are averages and driver performance can fluctuate from year to year.

pokerman wrote:I threw some figures about a few months ago or maybe even last year and got a roasting, in part I guess because it didn't favour certain drivers.

You just need to have a thick skin and be willing to defend and clearly explain your methodology. The late great Patrick O'Brien admitted that there were some cases where he made deliberate adjustments to his method and was willing to discuss those points without getting defensive and those threads worked out fine despite some people taking umbrage to some of his conclusions.

Even if I disagree with someone's method I find it interesting to see how people weight different criteria and how it's processed.

RaggedMan wrote:

pokerman wrote:I threw some figures about a few months ago or maybe even last year and got a roasting, in part I guess because it didn't favour certain drivers.

You just need to have a thick skin and be willing to defend and clearly explain your methodology. The late great Patrick O'Brien admitted that there were some cases where he made deliberate adjustments to his method and was willing to discuss those points without getting defensive and those threads worked out fine despite some people taking umbrage to some of his conclusions.

Even if I disagree with someone's method I find it interesting to see how people weight different criteria and how it's processed.

Well at this time it's incomplete, if Ricciardo goes to Ferrari in 2019 then I give it another 2 to 3 years to give some kind of defining results.

You want to see Hamilton-Verstappen pairing in the same team? Look no longer, 2019 may bring you just that!

http://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-h ... erstappen/

I see fireworks of massive magnitude, if that happens.

Lt. Drebin wrote:You want to see Hamilton-Verstappen pairing in the same team? Look no longer, 2019 may bring you just that!

http://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-h ... erstappen/

I see fireworks of massive magnitude, if that happens.

I wonder why the rush at Verstappen's side... Since he seems to hold the cards, he should wait it out until at least summer '18 and see who's looking good.

Lt. Drebin wrote:You want to see Hamilton-Verstappen pairing in the same team? Look no longer, 2019 may bring you just that!

http://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-h ... erstappen/

I see fireworks of massive magnitude, if that happens.

Cool. 2019 is going to be rocking!

Ricciardo to Ferrari & Verstappen to Mercedes. If they're going to partner Vettel & Hamilton respectively, it's going to be the best season of the last 2 decades.

Lt. Drebin wrote:You want to see Hamilton-Verstappen pairing in the same team? Look no longer, 2019 may bring you just that!

http://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-h ... erstappen/

I see fireworks of massive magnitude, if that happens.

I see new weapons of mass destruction: Hamstappenuclear warfare.

Of course, I'd love to see it.

Lt. Drebin wrote:You want to see Hamilton-Verstappen pairing in the same team? Look no longer, 2019 may bring you just that!

http://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-h ... erstappen/

I see fireworks of massive magnitude, if that happens.

As far as I'm aware he's got a contract which allows RB to extend for a further year at the end of 2018 and it doesn't matter if they don't have a car, they'll still be able to activate it so I don't know what Eason is talking about. Considering they probably won't have Dan in 2019 I can't see them passing on Max and letting him leave too.

Mercedes or Verstappen will have to persuade RB not to take that option up and I'm struggling to see why they wouldn't so it's not just Max they'll have to flash the cash to.

Halfway sounds way too optimistic for a driver effectively under contract.

mds wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:You want to see Hamilton-Verstappen pairing in the same team? Look no longer, 2019 may bring you just that!

http://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-h ... erstappen/

I see fireworks of massive magnitude, if that happens.

I wonder why the rush at Verstappen's side... Since he seems to hold the cards, he should wait it out until at least summer '18 and see who's looking good.

I think the option for 2019 means RB hold the cards to be honest. I read as long as they are in the Top 3 in the constructors in 2018 they can activate another year.

So unless McLaren pull a surprise he's snookered 'til 2020.

Lotus49 wrote: As far as I'm aware he's got a contract which allows RB to extend for a further year at the end of 2018 and it doesn't matter if they don't have a car, they'll still be able to activate it so I don't know what Eason is talking about. Considering they probably won't have Dan in 2019 I can't see them passing on Max and letting him leave too.

I read somewhere that Verstappen has a performance clausule he could call in for 2019. Not sure if true, and I think Horner is claiming he doesn't, but based only on Horner I wouldn't rule it out entirely

E.g. here: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13178 ... l-to-honda

If the Renault split is confirmed the news will be of considerable interest to Red Bull's drivers, with Daniel Ricciardo's contract expiring next season and Max Verstappen believed to have a performance-related clause to end his deal, which currently includes the 2019 season, early.

edit: you got your reply in before mine

I'm not sure as to the exact contents of the supposed clause, so you might as well be right. We'll see how it plays out.

mds wrote:

Lotus49 wrote: As far as I'm aware he's got a contract which allows RB to extend for a further year at the end of 2018 and it doesn't matter if they don't have a car, they'll still be able to activate it so I don't know what Eason is talking about. Considering they probably won't have Dan in 2019 I can't see them passing on Max and letting him leave too.

I read somewhere that Verstappen has a performance clausule he could call in for 2019. Not sure if true, and I think Horner is claiming he doesn't, but based only on Horner I wouldn't rule it out entirely

E.g. here: https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13178 ... l-to-honda

If the Renault split is confirmed the news will be of considerable interest to Red Bull's drivers, with Daniel Ricciardo's contract expiring next season and Max Verstappen believed to have a performance-related clause to end his deal, which currently includes the 2019 season, early.

edit: you got your reply in before mine

I'm not sure as to the exact contents of the supposed clause, so you might as well be right. We'll see how it plays out.

We will yeah, I read it a few weeks ago that Max was trying to get the specifics changed because of how unlikely it is they'll be lower than 3rd but there was no confirmation of either to be fair. I'll try to find it.

Lt. Drebin wrote:You want to see Hamilton-Verstappen pairing in the same team? Look no longer, 2019 may bring you just that!

http://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-h ... erstappen/

I see fireworks of massive magnitude, if that happens.

I believe this has been discussed already with questions being asked about Verstappen's contract with Red Bull.

Lotus49 wrote:

mds wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:You want to see Hamilton-Verstappen pairing in the same team? Look no longer, 2019 may bring you just that!

http://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-h ... erstappen/

I see fireworks of massive magnitude, if that happens.

I wonder why the rush at Verstappen's side... Since he seems to hold the cards, he should wait it out until at least summer '18 and see who's looking good.

I think the option for 2019 means RB hold the cards to be honest. I read as long as they are in the Top 3 in the constructors in 2018 they can activate another year.

So unless McLaren pull a surprise he's snookered 'til 2020.

Yes I read that as well and the Verstappen's tried to change it to Max needing to finish 3rd in the WDC, I can't see why Red Bull would agree to change it?

With Red Bull desperate for an engine for 2019 there could be ways for Mercedes to persuade Red Bull to relinquish their claim on Verstappen.

Delete: wrong thread.

mikeyg123 wrote:With Red Bull desperate for an engine for 2019 there could be ways for Mercedes to persuade Red Bull to relinquish their claim on Verstappen.

I like this thinking

pokerman wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

mds wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:You want to see Hamilton-Verstappen pairing in the same team? Look no longer, 2019 may bring you just that!

http://www.planetf1.com/news/mercedes-h ... erstappen/

I see fireworks of massive magnitude, if that happens.

I wonder why the rush at Verstappen's side... Since he seems to hold the cards, he should wait it out until at least summer '18 and see who's looking good.

I think the option for 2019 means RB hold the cards to be honest. I read as long as they are in the Top 3 in the constructors in 2018 they can activate another year.

So unless McLaren pull a surprise he's snookered 'til 2020.

Yes I read that as well and the Verstappen's tried to change it to Max needing to finish 3rd in the WDC, I can't see why Red Bull would agree to change it?

Yeah if it's true that it's those conditions then I can't see RB agreeing to switch either, there's nothing in it for them outside of a happier driver but one who can leave if he wants by under-performing in the car.

Hardly worth it.

mcdo wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:With Red Bull desperate for an engine for 2019 there could be ways for Mercedes to persuade Red Bull to relinquish their claim on Verstappen.

I like this thinking

I was thinking about something along similar lines, maybe tied to Aston Martin?. A nice re-badged Mercedes unit with all the trimmings for 2 seasons could be tempting.

Lotus49 wrote:

mcdo wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:With Red Bull desperate for an engine for 2019 there could be ways for Mercedes to persuade Red Bull to relinquish their claim on Verstappen.

I like this thinking

I was thinking about something along similar lines, maybe tied to Aston Martin?. A nice re-badged Mercedes unit with all the trimmings for 2 seasons could be tempting.

If RBR are of a similar mind - and they do want Max more than Dan (Helmut certainly does - but his anti-Australian sentiment or at least anti-European bias is consistent) then they could facilitate Dan's move to Merc. I know that Dan is a free agent but if you have Max going - and Dan not tied up - RBR risk losing both - and ending up with a customer Merc engine - and presumably Saintz and someone else - which makes RBR the new Williams/Force India - arguably with worse drivers

Lotus49 wrote:

mcdo wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:With Red Bull desperate for an engine for 2019 there could be ways for Mercedes to persuade Red Bull to relinquish their claim on Verstappen.

I like this thinking

I was thinking about something along similar lines, maybe tied to Aston Martin?. A nice re-badged Mercedes unit with all the trimmings for 2 seasons could be tempting.

If RBR are of a similar mind - and they do want Max more than Dan (Helmut certainly does - but his anti-Australian sentiment or at least anti-European bias is consistent) then they could facilitate Dan's move to Merc. I know that Dan is a free agent but if you have Max going - and Dan not tied up - RBR risk losing both - and ending up with a customer Merc engine - and presumably Saintz and someone else - which makes RBR the new Williams/Force India - arguably with worse drivers

F1Oz wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

mcdo wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:With Red Bull desperate for an engine for 2019 there could be ways for Mercedes to persuade Red Bull to relinquish their claim on Verstappen.

I like this thinking

I was thinking about something along similar lines, maybe tied to Aston Martin?. A nice re-badged Mercedes unit with all the trimmings for 2 seasons could be tempting.

If RBR are of a similar mind - and they do want Max more than Dan (Helmut certainly does - but his anti-Australian sentiment or at least anti-European bias is consistent) then they could facilitate Dan's move to Merc. I know that Dan is a free agent but if you have Max going - and Dan not tied up - RBR risk losing both - and ending up with a customer Merc engine - and presumably Saintz and someone else - which makes RBR the new Williams/Force India - arguably with worse drivers

It does yeah, that's the problem. But I suppose with the junior programme getting dialed back it could prompt a change in how RB go about signing/promoting drivers potentially. Unless Gasly builds on his promising start next year of course and earns the shot.

F1Oz wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

mcdo wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:With Red Bull desperate for an engine for 2019 there could be ways for Mercedes to persuade Red Bull to relinquish their claim on Verstappen.

I like this thinking

I was thinking about something along similar lines, maybe tied to Aston Martin?. A nice re-badged Mercedes unit with all the trimmings for 2 seasons could be tempting.

If RBR are of a similar mind - and they do want Max more than Dan (Helmut certainly does - but his anti-Australian sentiment or at least anti-European bias is consistent) then they could facilitate Dan's move to Merc. I know that Dan is a free agent but if you have Max going - and Dan not tied up - RBR risk losing both - and ending up with a customer Merc engine - and presumably Saintz and someone else - which makes RBR the new Williams/Force India - arguably with worse drivers

Ricciardo's a free agent if Merc want him.and he wants them they don't need to offer anything in return.

As per this article, Japanese Grand Prix is Palmer's final grand prix in Renault:
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3594 ... r-renault/

Although, Renault haven't announced anything yet. Palmer made this statement on 1 of his photos on Instagram.

UnlikeUday wrote:As per this article, Japanese Grand Prix is Palmer's final grand prix in Renault:
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3594 ... r-renault/

Although, Renault haven't announced anything yet. Palmer made this statement on 1 of his photos on Instagram.

So if Sainz goes to Renault for the rest of the season and Gasly decides to race in Austin, I suppose that means Kyvat comes back to Toro Rosso again.

I wonder what occurred for that to happen, it can hardly have been Palmer's choice.

mikeyg123 wrote:With Red Bull desperate for an engine for 2019 there could be ways for Mercedes to persuade Red Bull to relinquish their claim on Verstappen.

That would work if Mercedes are happy to give Red Bull a performance lift.

Banana Man wrote:I wonder what occurred for that to happen, it can hardly have been Palmer's choice.

Renault offered him an amount of money to leave, he turned it down, they offered him more, he took it, simple as that.

Banana Man wrote:I wonder what occurred for that to happen, it can hardly have been Palmer's choice.

Other options for staying on the grid were closed off so it makes more sense to pocket the sizeable figure, I read 5-7m, and put that into furthering his career in another series or paying back Dad so the other son gets a go too in the future.

No use flailing at the back for the last 5 races with no chance of staying on the grid when you can pocket that kind of cash and move on.

owenmahamilton wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:As per this article, Japanese Grand Prix is Palmer's final grand prix in Renault:
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3594 ... r-renault/

Although, Renault haven't announced anything yet. Palmer made this statement on 1 of his photos on Instagram.

So if Sainz goes to Renault for the rest of the season and Gasly decides to race in Austin, I suppose that means Kyvat comes back to Toro Rosso again.

Renault have confirmed Sainz will race for them from US grand prix onwards. At the end of the article, it also states that Kvyat will return.
https://www.f1today.net/en/news/f1/-232 ... grand-prix

owenmahamilton wrote:

Banana Man wrote:I wonder what occurred for that to happen, it can hardly have been Palmer's choice.

Renault offered him an amount of money to leave, he turned it down, they offered him more, he took it, simple as that.

Renault really wanted a monkey off their back!

UnlikeUday wrote:As per this article, Japanese Grand Prix is Palmer's final grand prix in Renault:
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3594 ... r-renault/

Although, Renault haven't announced anything yet. Palmer made this statement on 1 of his photos on Instagram.

I guess that means that Gasly will not finish out the season in the Japanese Super Formula series?

owenmahamilton wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:As per this article, Japanese Grand Prix is Palmer's final grand prix in Renault:
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3594 ... r-renault/

Although, Renault haven't announced anything yet. Palmer made this statement on 1 of his photos on Instagram.

So if Sainz goes to Renault for the rest of the season and Gasly decides to race in Austin, I suppose that means Kyvat comes back to Toro Rosso again.

Yep

pokerman wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:As per this article, Japanese Grand Prix is Palmer's final grand prix in Renault:
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3594 ... r-renault/

Although, Renault haven't announced anything yet. Palmer made this statement on 1 of his photos on Instagram.

I guess that means that Gasly will not finish out the season in the Japanese Super Formula series?

Is 'my last race' for Renault' relevant? maybe a part time job filling in for PG?
We will not know what sweeteners were offered for him to step out early

Edit

Pierre Gasly will race for the Toro Rosso Formula 1 team in the United States Grand Prix, as Carlos Sainz moves to Renault to replace Jolyon Palmer.

Motorsport.com

moby wrote:

pokerman wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:As per this article, Japanese Grand Prix is Palmer's final grand prix in Renault:
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3594 ... r-renault/

Although, Renault haven't announced anything yet. Palmer made this statement on 1 of his photos on Instagram.

I guess that means that Gasly will not finish out the season in the Japanese Super Formula series?

Is 'my last race' for Renault' relevant? maybe a part time job filling in for PG?
We will not know what sweeteners were offered for him to step out early

Edit

Pierre Gasly will race for the Toro Rosso Formula 1 team in the United States Grand Prix, as Carlos Sainz moves to Renault to replace Jolyon Palmer.

Motorsport.com

The sweetener was apparently $5-7M.

pokerman wrote:

moby wrote:

pokerman wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:As per this article, Japanese Grand Prix is Palmer's final grand prix in Renault:
http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3594 ... r-renault/

Although, Renault haven't announced anything yet. Palmer made this statement on 1 of his photos on Instagram.

I guess that means that Gasly will not finish out the season in the Japanese Super Formula series?

Is 'my last race' for Renault' relevant? maybe a part time job filling in for PG?
We will not know what sweeteners were offered for him to step out early

Edit

Pierre Gasly will race for the Toro Rosso Formula 1 team in the United States Grand Prix, as Carlos Sainz moves to Renault to replace Jolyon Palmer.

Motorsport.com

The sweetener was apparently $5-7M.

Is that not his own money back?
I mean he paid X to drive the season and refused to get out of the seat, so they give him 4 races worth back, or 4 race worth and a thank you and good bye envelope.