Silly season 2018

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Jenson's Understeer
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

mds wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Zoue wrote:That's gotta hurt for Kvyat. Unless Gasly bombs I don't really see a way back for him


Siao7 wrote:How is this not a case of goodbye for our Daniil?


I still think he'll be at Toro Rosso next year simply because Red Bull have no other junior driver ready to step up, and of the two Honda junior drivers, only Matsushita could possibly end 2017 with enough Superlicense points to be able to compete in F1 next year. So unless a) he has an amazing finish to the F2 season, b) the FIA give him permission to race in F1 despite not having enough Superlicense points, or c) Red Bull bring someone else into their junior program and immediately give them the Toro Rosso seat, then really they don't have any option to replace Kvyat.

I hope they go with option (c). They've done it on the rare occasion in the past


Thing is... who would they pick? Aside from poaching Norris from McLaren, I can't see anyone in the junior series with enough points who would be that much better than Kvyat.


I can't imagine McLaren letting them have Norris, and the fact that right now there isn't any other standout option is why I continue to think Kvyat keeps his seat. The only other option would be Mercedes paying Red Bull a significant amount of money to give Wehrlein the second Toro Rosso seat, but given the recent history between the two sides (re: engine supply) it seems a bit of a stretch to believe Red Bull would be happy to help develop someone else's young driver.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by mds »

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
mds wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Zoue wrote:That's gotta hurt for Kvyat. Unless Gasly bombs I don't really see a way back for him


Siao7 wrote:How is this not a case of goodbye for our Daniil?


I still think he'll be at Toro Rosso next year simply because Red Bull have no other junior driver ready to step up, and of the two Honda junior drivers, only Matsushita could possibly end 2017 with enough Superlicense points to be able to compete in F1 next year. So unless a) he has an amazing finish to the F2 season, b) the FIA give him permission to race in F1 despite not having enough Superlicense points, or c) Red Bull bring someone else into their junior program and immediately give them the Toro Rosso seat, then really they don't have any option to replace Kvyat.

I hope they go with option (c). They've done it on the rare occasion in the past


Thing is... who would they pick? Aside from poaching Norris from McLaren, I can't see anyone in the junior series with enough points who would be that much better than Kvyat.


I can't imagine McLaren letting them have Norris, and the fact that right now there isn't any other standout option is why I continue to think Kvyat keeps his seat. The only other option would be Mercedes paying Red Bull a significant amount of money to give Wehrlein the second Toro Rosso seat, but given the recent history between the two sides (re: engine supply) it seems a bit of a stretch to believe Red Bull would be happy to help develop someone else's young driver.


I agree, the only thing that is puzzling though is that they are doing this to consider their options for the 2018 STR seats.
I mean, if they were going to just run Gasly and Kvyat next year, then what is there to test out now and what do they have to consider? The way it's put you would think that they're eyeing a possible other driver to put in the STR at the expense of either Gasly or Kvyat.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by UnlikeUday »

Toro Rosso are just being diplomatic. Instead of putting down Kvyat for his measly performances, they're shoving in the reason of evaluating Gasly for 2018.

I don't think we will see Kvyat again in the race seat. Even if he gets the chance, I think this move must've created a dent big enough in his self-respect / ego to drive again. Being booted twice & especially in the junior team, is surely embarrassing as well.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by mcdo »

mds wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Zoue wrote:That's gotta hurt for Kvyat. Unless Gasly bombs I don't really see a way back for him


Siao7 wrote:How is this not a case of goodbye for our Daniil?


I still think he'll be at Toro Rosso next year simply because Red Bull have no other junior driver ready to step up, and of the two Honda junior drivers, only Matsushita could possibly end 2017 with enough Superlicense points to be able to compete in F1 next year. So unless a) he has an amazing finish to the F2 season, b) the FIA give him permission to race in F1 despite not having enough Superlicense points, or c) Red Bull bring someone else into their junior program and immediately give them the Toro Rosso seat, then really they don't have any option to replace Kvyat.

I hope they go with option (c). They've done it on the rare occasion in the past


Thing is... who would they pick? Aside from poaching Norris from McLaren, I can't see anyone in the junior series with enough points who would be that much better than Kvyat.

Fair point. I can't see McLaren giving Norris up, especially to drive with Honda power

It's not the same but what about looking at Merc's "where to put Wehrlein" problem? Particularly now with the Red Bull-Aston Martin tie-in. Wehrlein has more points than Kvyat in a much poorer car. Marko could get to work on his "personality issues" :lol:
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

mds wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
mds wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:I still think he'll be at Toro Rosso next year simply because Red Bull have no other junior driver ready to step up, and of the two Honda junior drivers, only Matsushita could possibly end 2017 with enough Superlicense points to be able to compete in F1 next year. So unless a) he has an amazing finish to the F2 season, b) the FIA give him permission to race in F1 despite not having enough Superlicense points, or c) Red Bull bring someone else into their junior program and immediately give them the Toro Rosso seat, then really they don't have any option to replace Kvyat.

I hope they go with option (c). They've done it on the rare occasion in the past


Thing is... who would they pick? Aside from poaching Norris from McLaren, I can't see anyone in the junior series with enough points who would be that much better than Kvyat.


I can't imagine McLaren letting them have Norris, and the fact that right now there isn't any other standout option is why I continue to think Kvyat keeps his seat. The only other option would be Mercedes paying Red Bull a significant amount of money to give Wehrlein the second Toro Rosso seat, but given the recent history between the two sides (re: engine supply) it seems a bit of a stretch to believe Red Bull would be happy to help develop someone else's young driver.


I agree, the only thing that is puzzling though is that they are doing this to consider their options for the 2018 STR seats.
I mean, if they were going to just run Gasly and Kvyat next year, then what is there to test out now and what do they have to consider? The way it's put you would think that they're eyeing a possible other driver to put in the STR at the expense of either Gasly or Kvyat.


I would assume that Honda are hoping either Matsushita has a strong end to his campaign and manages to sneak into the top three or that they can convince the FIA to let him race in F1 even if he finishes 4th or lower. Or maybe this is as simple as Red Bull knowing they're probably going to have to stick with Kvyat next year but wanting to send a message to him that his performances haven't been good enough, and are trying this as a drastic means to kick him up the backside.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by moby »

Could it be that they have some commitment to allowing him a number of events due to hitting a target, and they do not want to disrupt next year?

Practice sessions may be important to them next year.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by GingerFurball »

Rumour is that Gasly was supposed to replace Sainz, however with Palmer refusing to leave Renault it's left Toro Rosso with a 3 into 2 scenario.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by moby »

Joe Saward seems to think they will both be with STR next year, and he is not usually far off the mark (torpedo and Gasley that is)

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by optimisteprime »

I'm not sure what the point of keeping Kvyat next season is when they clearly have no long term plan for him - they've dropped him from Red Bull once and they're now choosing to temporarily drop him rather than dropping the guy who's already signed for another team next season.

I agree there's no obvious young talent on their books on the horizon - but if they're going to be both benchmarking Gasly and trying to develop the Honda engine why not go for experience and talk to someone like Massa, Kubica, or even look to bring Sebastien Buemi back into the fold? Sure, it goes against their remit as Red Bull's young driver team, but Kvyat is a dead end in that regard anyway.

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mds
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by mds »

Because Sainz is their best bet for points and thus WCC money, while Kvyat is the best driver for benchmarking Gasly since they know him very well.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by UnlikeUday »

Kvyat may be back for the US Grand Prix as Gasly will be busy taking part in the finale of his championship that weekend (which he could win)!

Toro Rosso are in a quandary especially for 2018 as there's probably no one there to take Sainz's place to partner Gasly.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Banana Man »

If they're going to bring back anyone next season, I'd bring back JEV.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

mds wrote:Because Sainz is their best bet for points and thus WCC money, while Kvyat is the best driver for benchmarking Gasly since they know him very well.


Yup. Kubica, Massa, Palmer, JEV, Buemi... all these names getting thrown around, none of them will give Red Bull an accurate reading of where Gasly is at and how he progresses over the season the way that pairing him with Kvyat will.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

GingerFurball wrote:
pokerman wrote:
owenmahamilton wrote:Not sure if there is any truth to this but I've read in a couple of places that apparently Lance Stroll and Robert Kubica will take part in a private test for Williams (paid for by Lance's dad) possibly at Interlagos before the Brazilian Grand Prix.

That's good to hear, is this within the rules that you can do this, testing is limited?

They can't test current cars.

There's nothing stopping Williams dusting down their 2014 cars and doing a bit of running.

Fair enough
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by ob1kenobi.23 »

Possibly we could have 4 french drivers on the grid next year.

Rogro, Gasly, Ocon & leClerc. Been a while since that happened.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

ob1kenobi.23 wrote:Possibly we could have 4 french drivers on the grid next year.

Rogro, Gasly, Ocon & leClerc. Been a while since that happened.

Grosjean is more Swiss than French though.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by ob1kenobi.23 »

pokerman wrote:
ob1kenobi.23 wrote:Possibly we could have 4 french drivers on the grid next year.

Rogro, Gasly, Ocon & leClerc. Been a while since that happened.

Grosjean is more Swiss than French though.




Rindt was born in Germany but he wasn't the first German F1 champion.
Mario Andretti was Croatian.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by UnlikeUday »

pokerman wrote:
ob1kenobi.23 wrote:Possibly we could have 4 french drivers on the grid next year.

Rogro, Gasly, Ocon & leClerc. Been a while since that happened.

Grosjean is more Swiss than French though.


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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Lynx »

I am l hope they go with Gasly. Then people can make fun of his name when he performs ghastly. But that’s propably just me, the old francophile.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

ob1kenobi.23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ob1kenobi.23 wrote:Possibly we could have 4 french drivers on the grid next year.

Rogro, Gasly, Ocon & leClerc. Been a while since that happened.

Grosjean is more Swiss than French though.




Rindt was born in Germany but he wasn't the first German F1 champion.
Mario Andretti was Croatian.

No he was born in a a part of Italy that is now a part of Croatia, his family moved to the USA when he was 15, I believe that Grosjean always lived in Switzerland and even worked for a Swiss bank before his motor racing career started to take off.

Having a duel passport through his French Mother allowed him to race under the French flag which would be more advantageous for him sponsorship wise.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by mcdo »

pokerman wrote:
ob1kenobi.23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ob1kenobi.23 wrote:Possibly we could have 4 french drivers on the grid next year.

Rogro, Gasly, Ocon & leClerc. Been a while since that happened.

Grosjean is more Swiss than French though.




Rindt was born in Germany but he wasn't the first German F1 champion.
Mario Andretti was Croatian.

No he was born in a a part of Italy that is now a part of Croatia, his family moved to the USA when he was 15, I believe that Grosjean always lived in Switzerland and even worked for a Swiss bank before his motor racing career started to take off.

Having a duel passport through his French Mother allowed him to race under the French flag which would be more advantageous for him sponsorship wise.

How many nationalities could Nico Rosberg claim? At least 3 anyway
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

mcdo wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ob1kenobi.23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
ob1kenobi.23 wrote:Possibly we could have 4 french drivers on the grid next year.

Rogro, Gasly, Ocon & leClerc. Been a while since that happened.

Grosjean is more Swiss than French though.




Rindt was born in Germany but he wasn't the first German F1 champion.
Mario Andretti was Croatian.

No he was born in a a part of Italy that is now a part of Croatia, his family moved to the USA when he was 15, I believe that Grosjean always lived in Switzerland and even worked for a Swiss bank before his motor racing career started to take off.

Having a duel passport through his French Mother allowed him to race under the French flag which would be more advantageous for him sponsorship wise.

How many nationalities could Nico Rosberg claim? At least 3 anyway

Indeed and I would say that he took the commercial decision to drive under the German flag, he was born in Germany to a German mother and has a German wife so I guess his strongest ties are with Germany?
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by mikeyg123 »

Lots of drivers are pretty cosmopolitan. Verstappen races under a dutch licence but was born in Belgium to a Belgium mother.

Leclerc actually races under the Monegasque flag.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:Lots of drivers are pretty cosmopolitan. Verstappen races under a dutch licence but was born in Belgium to a Belgium mother.

Leclerc actually races under the Monegasque flag.

Indeed I forgot to mention that, is Leclerc actually French?
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Lots of drivers are pretty cosmopolitan. Verstappen races under a dutch licence but was born in Belgium to a Belgium mother.

Leclerc actually races under the Monegasque flag.

Indeed I forgot to mention that, is Leclerc actually French?


I've no idea of his origin.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Lots of drivers are pretty cosmopolitan. Verstappen races under a dutch licence but was born in Belgium to a Belgium mother.

Leclerc actually races under the Monegasque flag.

Indeed I forgot to mention that, is Leclerc actually French?


I've no idea of his origin.

He was born in Monaco and still lives in Monaco, I don't know his parents nationality though.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by UnlikeUday »

As per many reports such as this, only Kubica & Di Resta are in contention for the 2018 Williams seat:
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/883517/1/kubica-and-di-resta-face-williams-test-competition

I would be happy with either choice.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by mds »

Hoping for Kubica, but pretty sure it'll be di Resta. Will be happy to be proven wrong.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by mcdo »

UnlikeUday wrote:As per many reports such as this, only Kubica & Di Resta are in contention for the 2018 Williams seat:
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/883517/1/kubica-and-di-resta-face-williams-test-competition

I would be happy with either choice.

Autosport say Massa and Wehrlein are on the shortlist. Mercedes are still pushing for Wehrlein regardless of Martini's required age

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13217 ... -2018-seat

I cannot see any reason for Massa to be kept now that Stroll has closed on him
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by mikeyg123 »

mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:As per many reports such as this, only Kubica & Di Resta are in contention for the 2018 Williams seat:
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/883517/1/kubica-and-di-resta-face-williams-test-competition

I would be happy with either choice.

Autosport say Massa and Wehrlein are on the shortlist. Mercedes are still pushing for Wehrlein regardless of Martini's required age

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13217 ... -2018-seat

I cannot see any reason for Massa to be kept now that Stroll has closed on him


Stroll is now beating Massa pretty regularly. That should not be good enough?

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Herb »

mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:As per many reports such as this, only Kubica & Di Resta are in contention for the 2018 Williams seat:
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/883517/1/kubica-and-di-resta-face-williams-test-competition

I would be happy with either choice.

Autosport say Massa and Wehrlein are on the shortlist. Mercedes are still pushing for Wehrlein regardless of Martini's required age

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13217 ... -2018-seat

I cannot see any reason for Massa to be kept now that Stroll has closed on him


And BBC says its between Massa and Kubica.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41483083

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

I hope Kubica gets the seat.

Meanwhile fresh from his win in Malaysia both Mercedes and Ferrari are in a race to sign Verstappen for 2019, which sort of surprises me because I thought he was still under contract at Red Bull, anyway there's talk of a $20M a year contract for him, he's presently on $5M.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by moby »

Herb wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:As per many reports such as this, only Kubica & Di Resta are in contention for the 2018 Williams seat:
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/883517/1/kubica-and-di-resta-face-williams-test-competition

I would be happy with either choice.

Autosport say Massa and Wehrlein are on the shortlist. Mercedes are still pushing for Wehrlein regardless of Martini's required age

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13217 ... -2018-seat

I cannot see any reason for Massa to be kept now that Stroll has closed on him


And BBC says its between Massa and Kubica.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41483083


In the article thy say they are testing Di Resta too, so he has to still be in with a shout.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

moby wrote:
Herb wrote:
mcdo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:As per many reports such as this, only Kubica & Di Resta are in contention for the 2018 Williams seat:
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/883517/1/kubica-and-di-resta-face-williams-test-competition

I would be happy with either choice.

Autosport say Massa and Wehrlein are on the shortlist. Mercedes are still pushing for Wehrlein regardless of Martini's required age

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13217 ... -2018-seat

I cannot see any reason for Massa to be kept now that Stroll has closed on him


And BBC says its between Massa and Kubica.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41483083


In the article thy say they are testing Di Resta too, so he has to still be in with a shout.


I feel like di Resta's involvement is more so Williams have a better idea of how strong Kubica's performance is in that car, at that track, in those conditions. Given PdR has been their reserve driver for a year and a half now - and has presumably done thousands of laps in their simulator - they must have a pretty good idea of how he compares to both Massa and Stroll. Not to say they're not going to use the data to further evaluate him, particularly head-to-head with another potential replacement for Massa, but this test has got to be more about Kubica than it is di Resta.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Lt. Drebin »

Ricciardo on the market for 2019, RBR will not renew contract with him.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-red- ... ernatives/
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

Lt. Drebin wrote:Ricciardo on the market for 2019, RBR will not renew contract with him.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-red- ... ernatives/

I don't believe it said that, it said they have to look for alternative drivers in case Ricciardo leaves.

It does confirm that Verstappen is contracted for 2019 which I thought he was, so I'm not sure how either Mercedes or Ferrari sign him for 2019?
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by GingerFurball »

pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:Ricciardo on the market for 2019, RBR will not renew contract with him.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-red- ... ernatives/

I don't believe it said that, it said they have to look for alternative drivers in case Ricciardo leaves.

It does confirm that Verstappen is contracted for 2019 which I thought he was, so I'm not sure how either Mercedes or Ferrari sign him for 2019?


There's strong rumours that Ricciardo to Ferrari for 2019 is a done deal.

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mcdo
Posts: 10289
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Location: Ireland

Re: Silly season 2018

Post by mcdo »

GingerFurball wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:Ricciardo on the market for 2019, RBR will not renew contract with him.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-red- ... ernatives/

I don't believe it said that, it said they have to look for alternative drivers in case Ricciardo leaves.

It does confirm that Verstappen is contracted for 2019 which I thought he was, so I'm not sure how either Mercedes or Ferrari sign him for 2019?


There's strong rumours that Ricciardo to Ferrari for 2019 is a done deal.

Max in a Merc, Dan in a Ferrari. Wouldn't it be beautiful?

Hopefully whenever either driver moves they'll be in machinery capable of titles
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pokerman
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

GingerFurball wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:Ricciardo on the market for 2019, RBR will not renew contract with him.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-red- ... ernatives/

I don't believe it said that, it said they have to look for alternative drivers in case Ricciardo leaves.

It does confirm that Verstappen is contracted for 2019 which I thought he was, so I'm not sure how either Mercedes or Ferrari sign him for 2019?


There's strong rumours that Ricciardo to Ferrari for 2019 is a done deal.

Really, I've not had one sniff of that.

This will be excellent for my performance data, 2 years of Verstappen and Ricciardo, and then multiple years of Vettel and Ricciardo. :)
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)

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moby
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by moby »

mcdo wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:Ricciardo on the market for 2019, RBR will not renew contract with him.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/marko-red- ... ernatives/

I don't believe it said that, it said they have to look for alternative drivers in case Ricciardo leaves.

It does confirm that Verstappen is contracted for 2019 which I thought he was, so I'm not sure how either Mercedes or Ferrari sign him for 2019?


There's strong rumours that Ricciardo to Ferrari for 2019 is a done deal.

Max in a Merc, Dan in a Ferrari. Wouldn't it be beautiful?

Hopefully whenever either driver moves they'll be in machinery capable of titles



The Red Bull Driver production line seems to have glitched at the moment, and if this does happen who wil be the Red Bull drivers?

I could see STR being sold off to Honda, which they are looking at anyway, and there have been tales of Red Bull retiring from F1, this would have to push them in that direction

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