planetf1.com

Which they'll all regret for a very long time.

Interesting that McLaren seem to be playing hardball with Alonso and want a 3yr deal while he wants a 1yr deal . I thought a 1+1 would suit everyone but we'll see, there's usually a lot of bumf written around contract time of course.

Maybe Zak feels he can't go to sponsors next year on a steady ground if there are question marks around Alonso leaving that soon so he wants a clear picture for everyone?.

Lotus49 wrote:Which they'll all regret for a very long time.

Every bloody time I don't quote I start a new page, whatever the forum. This was carrying on from the Perez talk fwiw.

Every. Time.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Perez would be the best choice but does he want to go there, it doesn't sound like he does to me?

I don't know. If I was Perez the only reason I wouldn't move would be if they wouldn't offer a 1 year deal or if he has seen something which makes him think the team will disadvantage him against Stroll.

Assuming Alonso remains at McLaren, if I'm Perez then I stay with Force India. Even with Paddy Lowe at the team I don't have faith that Williams are going to jump ahead of FI next year. McLaren could, and Renault might as well, but I just don't see it with Williams. If anything I'd be more concerned they'll only have Haas, Sauber and Toro Rosso behind them, and that isn't going to do Perez any favours if he's still trying to get a move up the grid.

Then again, he should've gone to Renault when that chance was there but w/e.

Perez didn't go to Renault because he was holding out for Ferrari, that ship may have sailed for him now?

Perez didn't go to Renault because his sponsors said no.

Fair enough it was his sponsors that targeted Ferrari then.

Lotus49 wrote:Interesting that McLaren seem to be playing hardball with Alonso and want a 3yr deal while he wants a 1yr deal . I thought a 1+1 would suit everyone but we'll see, there's usually a lot of bumf written around contract time of course.

Maybe Zak feels he can't go to sponsors next year on a steady ground if there are question marks around Alonso leaving that soon so he wants a clear picture for everyone?.

This reminds me of what someone said, have McLaren sacrificed their long term future for Alonso's short term goals, basically Alonso has no loyalty to McLaren, he signs for McLaren next year merely because he has no other options.

That's hardly fair. Alonso has praised McLaren a lot this season.

I think given how the last 3 seasons have gone Alonso is well within his right to take a wait and see attitude.

McLaren don't exactly have any other options for next season.

pokerman wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:Interesting that McLaren seem to be playing hardball with Alonso and want a 3yr deal while he wants a 1yr deal . I thought a 1+1 would suit everyone but we'll see, there's usually a lot of bumf written around contract time of course.

Maybe Zak feels he can't go to sponsors next year on a steady ground if there are question marks around Alonso leaving that soon so he wants a clear picture for everyone?.

This reminds me of what someone said, have McLaren sacrificed their long term future for Alonso's short term goals, basically Alonso has no loyalty to McLaren, he signs for McLaren next year merely because he has no other options.

He's 36 and has been burnt more than any other top driver when it comes to having competitive cars so it's fairly obvious he was going to want options at this stage of his career rather than promises of machinery that end up not being delivered.

I'm sure he'd have left for a Merc/Ferrari but so would everyone in his position. Showing loyalty doesn't seem to be a F1 thing, competitiveness drives everything.

GingerFurball wrote:That's hardly fair. Alonso has praised McLaren a lot this season.

I think given how the last 3 seasons have gone Alonso is well within his right to take a wait and see attitude.

McLaren don't exactly have any other options for next season.

He made it seem to McLaren that if you dump Honda then I'll stay because I really believe in you, now he's saying that he has to hope that McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda and going to Renault, did he really believe McLaren would get either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine?

He kind of makes it seem he's out of the loop regarding any major decisions that are being made, he surely must have known that McLaren were on the verge of announcing the separation, then in practice he has another dig at Honda after going P7 saying that it should have been P1 after wondering if McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda, bearing in mind that a Renault engined car was in P1, then he says that Renault have to convince him about their engine before he signs a contract.

To me McLaren have done everything to try and keep him believing they've done what he wanted and basically asked of them but his attitude is still basically I'm out of here as soon as I see something better, McLaren must start to wonder if they are putting their eggs in the wrong basket?

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:Interesting that McLaren seem to be playing hardball with Alonso and want a 3yr deal while he wants a 1yr deal . I thought a 1+1 would suit everyone but we'll see, there's usually a lot of bumf written around contract time of course.

Maybe Zak feels he can't go to sponsors next year on a steady ground if there are question marks around Alonso leaving that soon so he wants a clear picture for everyone?.

This reminds me of what someone said, have McLaren sacrificed their long term future for Alonso's short term goals, basically Alonso has no loyalty to McLaren, he signs for McLaren next year merely because he has no other options.

He's 36 and has been burnt more than any other top driver when it comes to having competitive cars so it's fairly obvious he was going to want options at this stage of his career rather than promises of machinery that end up not being delivered.

I'm sure he'd have left for a Merc/Ferrari but so would everyone in his position. Showing loyalty doesn't seem to be a F1 thing, competitiveness drives everything.

Yeah I've posted above to another reply, Alonso's not getting the Ferrari/Mercedes drive whilst McLaren seemingly can't make any long term plans with Alonso.

pokerman wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:That's hardly fair. Alonso has praised McLaren a lot this season.

I think given how the last 3 seasons have gone Alonso is well within his right to take a wait and see attitude.

McLaren don't exactly have any other options for next season.

He made it seem to McLaren that if you dump Honda then I'll stay because I really believe in you, now he's saying that he has to hope that McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda and going to Renault, did he really believe McLaren would get either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine?

He kind of makes it seem he's out of the loop regarding any major decisions that are being made, he surely must have known that McLaren were on the verge of announcing the separation, then in practice he has another dig at Honda after going P7 saying that it should have been P1 after wondering if McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda, bearing in mind that a Renault engined car was in P1, then he says that Renault have to convince him about their engine before he signs a contract.

To me McLaren have done everything to try and keep him believing they've done what he wanted and basically asked of them but his attitude is still basically I'm out of here as soon as I see something better, McLaren must start to wonder if they are putting their eggs in the wrong basket?

That's your interpretation of what's been going on. You seem to be suggesting Alonso has somehow got them to dump Honda purely for him and now he's backtracking once they've done it.

No driver has this kind of power. If McLaren dumped Honda purely for Alonso then they deserve to get messed around, he's made it perfectly clear he wants to challenge for wins next year and any decision on his future will take place after he knows what McLaren will do.

Now he knows and as Zak said in the conference it's now time for the Alonso talks. Of course that should include talking to both Macca and Renault about their engine plans for next year now he knows it's a definite they'll be the ones supplying McLaren. Now McLaren have to convince him they can challenge on the car front and going by his own praising words about McLaren that should be the easiest part.

Doesn't mean he's going to blindly give them 3yrs though just because they've split with Honda, come on. It's a normal negotiation and they'll settle on what's best for both.

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:That's hardly fair. Alonso has praised McLaren a lot this season.

I think given how the last 3 seasons have gone Alonso is well within his right to take a wait and see attitude.

McLaren don't exactly have any other options for next season.

He made it seem to McLaren that if you dump Honda then I'll stay because I really believe in you, now he's saying that he has to hope that McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda and going to Renault, did he really believe McLaren would get either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine?

He kind of makes it seem he's out of the loop regarding any major decisions that are being made, he surely must have known that McLaren were on the verge of announcing the separation, then in practice he has another dig at Honda after going P7 saying that it should have been P1 after wondering if McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda, bearing in mind that a Renault engined car was in P1, then he says that Renault have to convince him about their engine before he signs a contract.

To me McLaren have done everything to try and keep him believing they've done what he wanted and basically asked of them but his attitude is still basically I'm out of here as soon as I see something better, McLaren must start to wonder if they are putting their eggs in the wrong basket?

That's your interpretation of what's been going on. You seem to be suggesting Alonso has somehow got them to dump Honda purely for him and now he's backtracking once they've done it.

No driver has this kind of power. If McLaren dumped Honda purely for Alonso then they deserve to get messed around, he's made it perfectly clear he wants to challenge for wins next year and any decision on his future will take place after he knows what McLaren will do.

Now he knows and as Zak said in the conference it's now time for the Alonso talks. Of course that should include talking to both Macca and Renault about their engine plans for next year now he knows it's a definite they'll be the ones supplying McLaren. Now McLaren have to convince him they can challenge on the car front and going by his own praising words about McLaren that should be the easiest part.

Doesn't mean he's going to blindly give them 3yrs though just because they've split with Honda, come on. It's a normal negotiation and they'll settle on what's best for both.

Alonso knows he is a sponsorship magnet. Mclaren may have some on the strength of him staying or the promises of some when he starts being on the podium.
They now need to consider if they are still viable if they have Renault, and will not clash with others they need to run with renault.
No doubt they did all this before deciding, but Alonso also knows this and realises they have planned the next 3 years around him being there. He is now holding out for most cash. Being realistic though there is no where else in F1 he can go for half what Mclaren would offer him, unless one of the teams can get a sponsor to 'do a Honda' and cover his cost.
One other option would be say FI or Williams putting him on a 'bonus escalator' based on points above a graph of the other driver. He would probably see that as too risky though

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:That's hardly fair. Alonso has praised McLaren a lot this season.

I think given how the last 3 seasons have gone Alonso is well within his right to take a wait and see attitude.

McLaren don't exactly have any other options for next season.

He made it seem to McLaren that if you dump Honda then I'll stay because I really believe in you, now he's saying that he has to hope that McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda and going to Renault, did he really believe McLaren would get either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine?

He kind of makes it seem he's out of the loop regarding any major decisions that are being made, he surely must have known that McLaren were on the verge of announcing the separation, then in practice he has another dig at Honda after going P7 saying that it should have been P1 after wondering if McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda, bearing in mind that a Renault engined car was in P1, then he says that Renault have to convince him about their engine before he signs a contract.

To me McLaren have done everything to try and keep him believing they've done what he wanted and basically asked of them but his attitude is still basically I'm out of here as soon as I see something better, McLaren must start to wonder if they are putting their eggs in the wrong basket?

That's your interpretation of what's been going on. You seem to be suggesting Alonso has somehow got them to dump Honda purely for him and now he's backtracking once they've done it.

No driver has this kind of power. If McLaren dumped Honda purely for Alonso then they deserve to get messed around, he's made it perfectly clear he wants to challenge for wins next year and any decision on his future will take place after he knows what McLaren will do.

Now he knows and as Zak said in the conference it's now time for the Alonso talks. Of course that should include talking to both Macca and Renault about their engine plans for next year now he knows it's a definite they'll be the ones supplying McLaren. Now McLaren have to convince him they can challenge on the car front and going by his own praising words about McLaren that should be the easiest part.

Doesn't mean he's going to blindly give them 3yrs though just because they've split with Honda, come on. It's a normal negotiation and they'll settle on what's best for both.

I'm basically only repeating what I hear from F1 pundits one of which said of McLaren's split with Honda, are McLaren sacrificing their long term future for Alonso's short term goals.

I actually think that Alonso comes across as being delusional, he wants wins next year, how is he going to achieve that?

Potentially McLaren with Renault engines should be the 4th best team next season behind Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull, all those seats are taken, so he must believe he can win with McLaren, I think Alonso talks in riddles so much so that he seems even to confuse himself.

Going forward for Alonso what's going to change, both Mercedes and Ferrari could have signed Alonso for next year but they didn't whilst Red Bull promote from within.

Now there is a possibility that both Ricciardo and Verstappen jump ship if Red Bull have Honda engines for 2019 so then there might be an opening for him but then again would he want to go back to his beloved Honda engines, would Honda want him back?

He's not delusional, he's ambitious.

He's already sacrificed 3 years of his career to Honda, while Renault represents an obvious upgrade, their engine next season is a reboot, Alonso obviously doesn't want to waste another 3 years of his career if Renault pull a Honda and come out with an engine that is worse than this year's.

GingerFurball wrote:He's not delusional, he's ambitious.

He's already sacrificed 3 years of his career to Honda, while Renault represents an obvious upgrade, their engine next season is a reboot, Alonso obviously doesn't want to waste another 3 years of his career if Renault pull a Honda and come out with an engine that is worse than this year's.

Were can he go that's better than McLaren?

Latest rumour is that Ferrari want to place both it's junior drivers, Giovinazzi and Leclerc, into the Sauber team and as a consequence Ericsson is talking to Williams, he would perhaps fit Williams' remit of being over 25 years old and he brings money.

moby wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:That's hardly fair. Alonso has praised McLaren a lot this season.

I think given how the last 3 seasons have gone Alonso is well within his right to take a wait and see attitude.

McLaren don't exactly have any other options for next season.

He made it seem to McLaren that if you dump Honda then I'll stay because I really believe in you, now he's saying that he has to hope that McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda and going to Renault, did he really believe McLaren would get either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine?

He kind of makes it seem he's out of the loop regarding any major decisions that are being made, he surely must have known that McLaren were on the verge of announcing the separation, then in practice he has another dig at Honda after going P7 saying that it should have been P1 after wondering if McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda, bearing in mind that a Renault engined car was in P1, then he says that Renault have to convince him about their engine before he signs a contract.

To me McLaren have done everything to try and keep him believing they've done what he wanted and basically asked of them but his attitude is still basically I'm out of here as soon as I see something better, McLaren must start to wonder if they are putting their eggs in the wrong basket?

That's your interpretation of what's been going on. You seem to be suggesting Alonso has somehow got them to dump Honda purely for him and now he's backtracking once they've done it.

No driver has this kind of power. If McLaren dumped Honda purely for Alonso then they deserve to get messed around, he's made it perfectly clear he wants to challenge for wins next year and any decision on his future will take place after he knows what McLaren will do.

Now he knows and as Zak said in the conference it's now time for the Alonso talks. Of course that should include talking to both Macca and Renault about their engine plans for next year now he knows it's a definite they'll be the ones supplying McLaren. Now McLaren have to convince him they can challenge on the car front and going by his own praising words about McLaren that should be the easiest part.

Doesn't mean he's going to blindly give them 3yrs though just because they've split with Honda, come on. It's a normal negotiation and they'll settle on what's best for both.

Alonso knows he is a sponsorship magnet. Mclaren may have some on the strength of him staying or the promises of some when he starts being on the podium.
They now need to consider if they are still viable if they have Renault, and will not clash with others they need to run with renault.
No doubt they did all this before deciding, but Alonso also knows this and realises they have planned the next 3 years around him being there. He is now holding out for most cash. Being realistic though there is no where else in F1 he can go for half what Mclaren would offer him, unless one of the teams can get a sponsor to 'do a Honda' and cover his cost.
One other option would be say FI or Williams putting him on a 'bonus escalator' based on points above a graph of the other driver. He would probably see that as too risky though

I really don't think its got anything to do with Money. I think he wants options in case anything happens in the driver market that can benefit him, however slim that opportunity it's better than none at his age.

But it's just the opening salvo in the negotiation. I still think a 1+1 or a 2+1 with a Merc/Ferrari option if something bizarre happened there will be the most likely.

pokerman wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:That's hardly fair. Alonso has praised McLaren a lot this season.

I think given how the last 3 seasons have gone Alonso is well within his right to take a wait and see attitude.

McLaren don't exactly have any other options for next season.

He made it seem to McLaren that if you dump Honda then I'll stay because I really believe in you, now he's saying that he has to hope that McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda and going to Renault, did he really believe McLaren would get either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine?

He kind of makes it seem he's out of the loop regarding any major decisions that are being made, he surely must have known that McLaren were on the verge of announcing the separation, then in practice he has another dig at Honda after going P7 saying that it should have been P1 after wondering if McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda, bearing in mind that a Renault engined car was in P1, then he says that Renault have to convince him about their engine before he signs a contract.

To me McLaren have done everything to try and keep him believing they've done what he wanted and basically asked of them but his attitude is still basically I'm out of here as soon as I see something better, McLaren must start to wonder if they are putting their eggs in the wrong basket?

That's your interpretation of what's been going on. You seem to be suggesting Alonso has somehow got them to dump Honda purely for him and now he's backtracking once they've done it.

No driver has this kind of power. If McLaren dumped Honda purely for Alonso then they deserve to get messed around, he's made it perfectly clear he wants to challenge for wins next year and any decision on his future will take place after he knows what McLaren will do.

Now he knows and as Zak said in the conference it's now time for the Alonso talks. Of course that should include talking to both Macca and Renault about their engine plans for next year now he knows it's a definite they'll be the ones supplying McLaren. Now McLaren have to convince him they can challenge on the car front and going by his own praising words about McLaren that should be the easiest part.

Doesn't mean he's going to blindly give them 3yrs though just because they've split with Honda, come on. It's a normal negotiation and they'll settle on what's best for both.

I'm basically only repeating what I hear from F1 pundits one of which said of McLaren's split with Honda, are McLaren sacrificing their long term future for Alonso's short term goals.

I actually think that Alonso comes across as being delusional, he wants wins next year, how is he going to achieve that?

Weird, I thought that's what every driver wanted

pokerman wrote:Latest rumour is that Ferrari want to place both it's junior drivers, Giovinazzi and Leclerc, into the Sauber team and as a consequence Ericsson is talking to Williams, he would perhaps fit Williams' remit of being over 25 years old and he brings money.

Probably better than Palmer but not by much. Would still leave Williams with by far the worst line-up on the grid. False economy in my opinion.

Besides, how much would Ericsson bring? His backers now own Sauber...

pokerman wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:That's hardly fair. Alonso has praised McLaren a lot this season.

I think given how the last 3 seasons have gone Alonso is well within his right to take a wait and see attitude.

McLaren don't exactly have any other options for next season.

He made it seem to McLaren that if you dump Honda then I'll stay because I really believe in you, now he's saying that he has to hope that McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda and going to Renault, did he really believe McLaren would get either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine?

He kind of makes it seem he's out of the loop regarding any major decisions that are being made, he surely must have known that McLaren were on the verge of announcing the separation, then in practice he has another dig at Honda after going P7 saying that it should have been P1 after wondering if McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda, bearing in mind that a Renault engined car was in P1, then he says that Renault have to convince him about their engine before he signs a contract.

To me McLaren have done everything to try and keep him believing they've done what he wanted and basically asked of them but his attitude is still basically I'm out of here as soon as I see something better, McLaren must start to wonder if they are putting their eggs in the wrong basket?

That's your interpretation of what's been going on. You seem to be suggesting Alonso has somehow got them to dump Honda purely for him and now he's backtracking once they've done it.

No driver has this kind of power. If McLaren dumped Honda purely for Alonso then they deserve to get messed around, he's made it perfectly clear he wants to challenge for wins next year and any decision on his future will take place after he knows what McLaren will do.

Now he knows and as Zak said in the conference it's now time for the Alonso talks. Of course that should include talking to both Macca and Renault about their engine plans for next year now he knows it's a definite they'll be the ones supplying McLaren. Now McLaren have to convince him they can challenge on the car front and going by his own praising words about McLaren that should be the easiest part.

Doesn't mean he's going to blindly give them 3yrs though just because they've split with Honda, come on. It's a normal negotiation and they'll settle on what's best for both.

I'm basically only repeating what I hear from F1 pundits one of which said of McLaren's split with Honda, are McLaren sacrificing their long term future for Alonso's short term goals.

I actually think that Alonso comes across as being delusional, he wants wins next year, how is he going to achieve that?

Potentially McLaren with Renault engines should be the 4th best team next season behind Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull, all those seats are taken, so he must believe he can win with McLaren, I think Alonso talks in riddles so much so that he seems even to confuse himself.

Going forward for Alonso what's going to change, both Mercedes and Ferrari could have signed Alonso for next year but they didn't whilst Red Bull promote from within.

Now there is a possibility that both Ricciardo and Verstappen jump ship if Red Bull have Honda engines for 2019 so then there might be an opening for him but then again would he want to go back to his beloved Honda engines, would Honda want him back?

He was clear the wanting to win wasn't F1 specific. For F1 there's an outside chance that's possible if Renault and McLaren deliver so he's going to speak to both obviously. He knows Renault have more of an eye on 2019 generally so will want to know development plans and targets for next year with the PU.

No I don't think he'd hook up with Honda again but if Enstone surpass McLaren towards the tail end of next year where do you think he'd rather be?. There's no use locking yourself into effectively the last contract of your career if you go for 3yrs only to see McLaren struggle next year.

I think he wants to stay in F1 and at McLaren and they'll settle for somewhere in between but if they don't budge from a straight 3yr deal then yeah I could see him going to WEC or Indy for a year and look again at F1 after the fallout of the next silly season and a good look at Renault/McLaren's performance. Why not?.

He seemed to me to be hinting in the presser that he's going for LeMans next year so maybe that needs sorting as well.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:Latest rumour is that Ferrari want to place both it's junior drivers, Giovinazzi and Leclerc, into the Sauber team and as a consequence Ericsson is talking to Williams, he would perhaps fit Williams' remit of being over 25 years old and he brings money.

Probably better than Palmer but not by much. Would still leave Williams with by far the worst line-up on the grid. False economy in my opinion.

Besides, how much would Ericsson bring? His backers now own Sauber...

From all the talk of Williams making an offer to Alonso and having the opportunity to sign Kubica to which of the pay drivers will they go for. It would truly boggle the mind if in the event they didn't land Alonso they would then go for the money option and not the next best driver available

Lotus49 wrote:

moby wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:That's hardly fair. Alonso has praised McLaren a lot this season.

I think given how the last 3 seasons have gone Alonso is well within his right to take a wait and see attitude.

McLaren don't exactly have any other options for next season.

He made it seem to McLaren that if you dump Honda then I'll stay because I really believe in you, now he's saying that he has to hope that McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda and going to Renault, did he really believe McLaren would get either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine?

He kind of makes it seem he's out of the loop regarding any major decisions that are being made, he surely must have known that McLaren were on the verge of announcing the separation, then in practice he has another dig at Honda after going P7 saying that it should have been P1 after wondering if McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda, bearing in mind that a Renault engined car was in P1, then he says that Renault have to convince him about their engine before he signs a contract.

To me McLaren have done everything to try and keep him believing they've done what he wanted and basically asked of them but his attitude is still basically I'm out of here as soon as I see something better, McLaren must start to wonder if they are putting their eggs in the wrong basket?

That's your interpretation of what's been going on. You seem to be suggesting Alonso has somehow got them to dump Honda purely for him and now he's backtracking once they've done it.

No driver has this kind of power. If McLaren dumped Honda purely for Alonso then they deserve to get messed around, he's made it perfectly clear he wants to challenge for wins next year and any decision on his future will take place after he knows what McLaren will do.

Now he knows and as Zak said in the conference it's now time for the Alonso talks. Of course that should include talking to both Macca and Renault about their engine plans for next year now he knows it's a definite they'll be the ones supplying McLaren. Now McLaren have to convince him they can challenge on the car front and going by his own praising words about McLaren that should be the easiest part.

Doesn't mean he's going to blindly give them 3yrs though just because they've split with Honda, come on. It's a normal negotiation and they'll settle on what's best for both.

Alonso knows he is a sponsorship magnet. Mclaren may have some on the strength of him staying or the promises of some when he starts being on the podium.
They now need to consider if they are still viable if they have Renault, and will not clash with others they need to run with renault.
No doubt they did all this before deciding, but Alonso also knows this and realises they have planned the next 3 years around him being there. He is now holding out for most cash. Being realistic though there is no where else in F1 he can go for half what Mclaren would offer him, unless one of the teams can get a sponsor to 'do a Honda' and cover his cost.
One other option would be say FI or Williams putting him on a 'bonus escalator' based on points above a graph of the other driver. He would probably see that as too risky though

I really don't think its got anything to do with Money. I think he wants options in case anything happens in the driver market that can benefit him, however slim that opportunity it's better than none at his age.

But it's just the opening salvo in the negotiation. I still think a 1+1 or a 2+1 with a Merc/Ferrari option if something bizarre happened there will be the most likely.

The Merc/Ferrari door is firmly shut for Alonso, he was available for next year and neither wanted him, Vettel has just signed a 3 year contract and rumour has it that Hamilton will do likewise at the end of the season.

mcdo wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:That's hardly fair. Alonso has praised McLaren a lot this season.

I think given how the last 3 seasons have gone Alonso is well within his right to take a wait and see attitude.

McLaren don't exactly have any other options for next season.

He made it seem to McLaren that if you dump Honda then I'll stay because I really believe in you, now he's saying that he has to hope that McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda and going to Renault, did he really believe McLaren would get either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine?

He kind of makes it seem he's out of the loop regarding any major decisions that are being made, he surely must have known that McLaren were on the verge of announcing the separation, then in practice he has another dig at Honda after going P7 saying that it should have been P1 after wondering if McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda, bearing in mind that a Renault engined car was in P1, then he says that Renault have to convince him about their engine before he signs a contract.

To me McLaren have done everything to try and keep him believing they've done what he wanted and basically asked of them but his attitude is still basically I'm out of here as soon as I see something better, McLaren must start to wonder if they are putting their eggs in the wrong basket?

That's your interpretation of what's been going on. You seem to be suggesting Alonso has somehow got them to dump Honda purely for him and now he's backtracking once they've done it.

No driver has this kind of power. If McLaren dumped Honda purely for Alonso then they deserve to get messed around, he's made it perfectly clear he wants to challenge for wins next year and any decision on his future will take place after he knows what McLaren will do.

Now he knows and as Zak said in the conference it's now time for the Alonso talks. Of course that should include talking to both Macca and Renault about their engine plans for next year now he knows it's a definite they'll be the ones supplying McLaren. Now McLaren have to convince him they can challenge on the car front and going by his own praising words about McLaren that should be the easiest part.

Doesn't mean he's going to blindly give them 3yrs though just because they've split with Honda, come on. It's a normal negotiation and they'll settle on what's best for both.

I'm basically only repeating what I hear from F1 pundits one of which said of McLaren's split with Honda, are McLaren sacrificing their long term future for Alonso's short term goals.

I actually think that Alonso comes across as being delusional, he wants wins next year, how is he going to achieve that?

Weird, I thought that's what every driver wanted

You can want all you want but you have to realise what's realistic, Alonso's want is more like a demand.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:Latest rumour is that Ferrari want to place both it's junior drivers, Giovinazzi and Leclerc, into the Sauber team and as a consequence Ericsson is talking to Williams, he would perhaps fit Williams' remit of being over 25 years old and he brings money.

Probably better than Palmer but not by much. Would still leave Williams with by far the worst line-up on the grid. False economy in my opinion.

Besides, how much would Ericsson bring? His backers now own Sauber...

Perhaps the money from Ferrari would help?

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

GingerFurball wrote:That's hardly fair. Alonso has praised McLaren a lot this season.

I think given how the last 3 seasons have gone Alonso is well within his right to take a wait and see attitude.

McLaren don't exactly have any other options for next season.

He made it seem to McLaren that if you dump Honda then I'll stay because I really believe in you, now he's saying that he has to hope that McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda and going to Renault, did he really believe McLaren would get either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine?

He kind of makes it seem he's out of the loop regarding any major decisions that are being made, he surely must have known that McLaren were on the verge of announcing the separation, then in practice he has another dig at Honda after going P7 saying that it should have been P1 after wondering if McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda, bearing in mind that a Renault engined car was in P1, then he says that Renault have to convince him about their engine before he signs a contract.

To me McLaren have done everything to try and keep him believing they've done what he wanted and basically asked of them but his attitude is still basically I'm out of here as soon as I see something better, McLaren must start to wonder if they are putting their eggs in the wrong basket?

That's your interpretation of what's been going on. You seem to be suggesting Alonso has somehow got them to dump Honda purely for him and now he's backtracking once they've done it.

No driver has this kind of power. If McLaren dumped Honda purely for Alonso then they deserve to get messed around, he's made it perfectly clear he wants to challenge for wins next year and any decision on his future will take place after he knows what McLaren will do.

Now he knows and as Zak said in the conference it's now time for the Alonso talks. Of course that should include talking to both Macca and Renault about their engine plans for next year now he knows it's a definite they'll be the ones supplying McLaren. Now McLaren have to convince him they can challenge on the car front and going by his own praising words about McLaren that should be the easiest part.

Doesn't mean he's going to blindly give them 3yrs though just because they've split with Honda, come on. It's a normal negotiation and they'll settle on what's best for both.

I'm basically only repeating what I hear from F1 pundits one of which said of McLaren's split with Honda, are McLaren sacrificing their long term future for Alonso's short term goals.

I actually think that Alonso comes across as being delusional, he wants wins next year, how is he going to achieve that?

Potentially McLaren with Renault engines should be the 4th best team next season behind Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull, all those seats are taken, so he must believe he can win with McLaren, I think Alonso talks in riddles so much so that he seems even to confuse himself.

Going forward for Alonso what's going to change, both Mercedes and Ferrari could have signed Alonso for next year but they didn't whilst Red Bull promote from within.

Now there is a possibility that both Ricciardo and Verstappen jump ship if Red Bull have Honda engines for 2019 so then there might be an opening for him but then again would he want to go back to his beloved Honda engines, would Honda want him back?

He was clear the wanting to win wasn't F1 specific. For F1 there's an outside chance that's possible if Renault and McLaren deliver so he's going to speak to both obviously. He knows Renault have more of an eye on 2019 generally so will want to know development plans and targets for next year with the PU.

No I don't think he'd hook up with Honda again but if Enstone surpass McLaren towards the tail end of next year where do you think he'd rather be?. There's no use locking yourself into effectively the last contract of your career if you go for 3yrs only to see McLaren struggle next year.

I think he wants to stay in F1 and at McLaren and they'll settle for somewhere in between but if they don't budge from a straight 3yr deal then yeah I could see him going to WEC or Indy for a year and look again at F1 after the fallout of the next silly season and a good look at Renault/McLaren's performance. Why not?.

He seemed to me to be hinting in the presser that he's going for LeMans next year so maybe that needs sorting as well.

Him being unsure about McLaren seems to go against all this belief he was supposed to have in the team.

pokerman wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

moby wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote: He made it seem to McLaren that if you dump Honda then I'll stay because I really believe in you, now he's saying that he has to hope that McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda and going to Renault, did he really believe McLaren would get either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine?

He kind of makes it seem he's out of the loop regarding any major decisions that are being made, he surely must have known that McLaren were on the verge of announcing the separation, then in practice he has another dig at Honda after going P7 saying that it should have been P1 after wondering if McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda, bearing in mind that a Renault engined car was in P1, then he says that Renault have to convince him about their engine before he signs a contract.

To me McLaren have done everything to try and keep him believing they've done what he wanted and basically asked of them but his attitude is still basically I'm out of here as soon as I see something better, McLaren must start to wonder if they are putting their eggs in the wrong basket?

That's your interpretation of what's been going on. You seem to be suggesting Alonso has somehow got them to dump Honda purely for him and now he's backtracking once they've done it.

No driver has this kind of power. If McLaren dumped Honda purely for Alonso then they deserve to get messed around, he's made it perfectly clear he wants to challenge for wins next year and any decision on his future will take place after he knows what McLaren will do.

Now he knows and as Zak said in the conference it's now time for the Alonso talks. Of course that should include talking to both Macca and Renault about their engine plans for next year now he knows it's a definite they'll be the ones supplying McLaren. Now McLaren have to convince him they can challenge on the car front and going by his own praising words about McLaren that should be the easiest part.

Doesn't mean he's going to blindly give them 3yrs though just because they've split with Honda, come on. It's a normal negotiation and they'll settle on what's best for both.

Alonso knows he is a sponsorship magnet. Mclaren may have some on the strength of him staying or the promises of some when he starts being on the podium.
They now need to consider if they are still viable if they have Renault, and will not clash with others they need to run with renault.
No doubt they did all this before deciding, but Alonso also knows this and realises they have planned the next 3 years around him being there. He is now holding out for most cash. Being realistic though there is no where else in F1 he can go for half what Mclaren would offer him, unless one of the teams can get a sponsor to 'do a Honda' and cover his cost.
One other option would be say FI or Williams putting him on a 'bonus escalator' based on points above a graph of the other driver. He would probably see that as too risky though

I really don't think its got anything to do with Money. I think he wants options in case anything happens in the driver market that can benefit him, however slim that opportunity it's better than none at his age.

But it's just the opening salvo in the negotiation. I still think a 1+1 or a 2+1 with a Merc/Ferrari option if something bizarre happened there will be the most likely.

The Merc/Ferrari door is firmly shut for Alonso, he was available for next year and neither wanted him, Vettel has just signed a 3 year contract and rumour has it that Hamilton will do likewise at the end of the season.

That would be the bizarre bit.

pokerman wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote: He made it seem to McLaren that if you dump Honda then I'll stay because I really believe in you, now he's saying that he has to hope that McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda and going to Renault, did he really believe McLaren would get either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine?

He kind of makes it seem he's out of the loop regarding any major decisions that are being made, he surely must have known that McLaren were on the verge of announcing the separation, then in practice he has another dig at Honda after going P7 saying that it should have been P1 after wondering if McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda, bearing in mind that a Renault engined car was in P1, then he says that Renault have to convince him about their engine before he signs a contract.

To me McLaren have done everything to try and keep him believing they've done what he wanted and basically asked of them but his attitude is still basically I'm out of here as soon as I see something better, McLaren must start to wonder if they are putting their eggs in the wrong basket?

That's your interpretation of what's been going on. You seem to be suggesting Alonso has somehow got them to dump Honda purely for him and now he's backtracking once they've done it.

No driver has this kind of power. If McLaren dumped Honda purely for Alonso then they deserve to get messed around, he's made it perfectly clear he wants to challenge for wins next year and any decision on his future will take place after he knows what McLaren will do.

Now he knows and as Zak said in the conference it's now time for the Alonso talks. Of course that should include talking to both Macca and Renault about their engine plans for next year now he knows it's a definite they'll be the ones supplying McLaren. Now McLaren have to convince him they can challenge on the car front and going by his own praising words about McLaren that should be the easiest part.

Doesn't mean he's going to blindly give them 3yrs though just because they've split with Honda, come on. It's a normal negotiation and they'll settle on what's best for both.

I'm basically only repeating what I hear from F1 pundits one of which said of McLaren's split with Honda, are McLaren sacrificing their long term future for Alonso's short term goals.

I actually think that Alonso comes across as being delusional, he wants wins next year, how is he going to achieve that?

Potentially McLaren with Renault engines should be the 4th best team next season behind Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull, all those seats are taken, so he must believe he can win with McLaren, I think Alonso talks in riddles so much so that he seems even to confuse himself.

Going forward for Alonso what's going to change, both Mercedes and Ferrari could have signed Alonso for next year but they didn't whilst Red Bull promote from within.

Now there is a possibility that both Ricciardo and Verstappen jump ship if Red Bull have Honda engines for 2019 so then there might be an opening for him but then again would he want to go back to his beloved Honda engines, would Honda want him back?

He was clear the wanting to win wasn't F1 specific. For F1 there's an outside chance that's possible if Renault and McLaren deliver so he's going to speak to both obviously. He knows Renault have more of an eye on 2019 generally so will want to know development plans and targets for next year with the PU.

No I don't think he'd hook up with Honda again but if Enstone surpass McLaren towards the tail end of next year where do you think he'd rather be?. There's no use locking yourself into effectively the last contract of your career if you go for 3yrs only to see McLaren struggle next year.

I think he wants to stay in F1 and at McLaren and they'll settle for somewhere in between but if they don't budge from a straight 3yr deal then yeah I could see him going to WEC or Indy for a year and look again at F1 after the fallout of the next silly season and a good look at Renault/McLaren's performance. Why not?.

He seemed to me to be hinting in the presser that he's going for LeMans next year so maybe that needs sorting as well.

Him being unsure about McLaren seems to go against all this belief he was supposed to have in the team.

It's a negotiation. Being confident in this years car means nothing about next years and how they integrate the Renault. Keeping your options open is always preferable and at his age almost needed.

pokerman wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lotus49 wrote:

pokerman wrote:He made it seem to McLaren that if you dump Honda then I'll stay because I really believe in you, now he's saying that he has to hope that McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda and going to Renault, did he really believe McLaren would get either a Mercedes or Ferrari engine?

He kind of makes it seem he's out of the loop regarding any major decisions that are being made, he surely must have known that McLaren were on the verge of announcing the separation, then in practice he has another dig at Honda after going P7 saying that it should have been P1 after wondering if McLaren have made the right decision in dumping Honda, bearing in mind that a Renault engined car was in P1, then he says that Renault have to convince him about their engine before he signs a contract.

To me McLaren have done everything to try and keep him believing they've done what he wanted and basically asked of them but his attitude is still basically I'm out of here as soon as I see something better, McLaren must start to wonder if they are putting their eggs in the wrong basket?

That's your interpretation of what's been going on. You seem to be suggesting Alonso has somehow got them to dump Honda purely for him and now he's backtracking once they've done it.

No driver has this kind of power. If McLaren dumped Honda purely for Alonso then they deserve to get messed around, he's made it perfectly clear he wants to challenge for wins next year and any decision on his future will take place after he knows what McLaren will do.

Now he knows and as Zak said in the conference it's now time for the Alonso talks. Of course that should include talking to both Macca and Renault about their engine plans for next year now he knows it's a definite they'll be the ones supplying McLaren. Now McLaren have to convince him they can challenge on the car front and going by his own praising words about McLaren that should be the easiest part.

Doesn't mean he's going to blindly give them 3yrs though just because they've split with Honda, come on. It's a normal negotiation and they'll settle on what's best for both.

I'm basically only repeating what I hear from F1 pundits one of which said of McLaren's split with Honda, are McLaren sacrificing their long term future for Alonso's short term goals.

I actually think that Alonso comes across as being delusional, he wants wins next year, how is he going to achieve that?

Potentially McLaren with Renault engines should be the 4th best team next season behind Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull, all those seats are taken, so he must believe he can win with McLaren, I think Alonso talks in riddles so much so that he seems even to confuse himself.

Going forward for Alonso what's going to change, both Mercedes and Ferrari could have signed Alonso for next year but they didn't whilst Red Bull promote from within.

Now there is a possibility that both Ricciardo and Verstappen jump ship if Red Bull have Honda engines for 2019 so then there might be an opening for him but then again would he want to go back to his beloved Honda engines, would Honda want him back?

He was clear the wanting to win wasn't F1 specific. For F1 there's an outside chance that's possible if Renault and McLaren deliver so he's going to speak to both obviously. He knows Renault have more of an eye on 2019 generally so will want to know development plans and targets for next year with the PU.

No I don't think he'd hook up with Honda again but if Enstone surpass McLaren towards the tail end of next year where do you think he'd rather be?. There's no use locking yourself into effectively the last contract of your career if you go for 3yrs only to see McLaren struggle next year.

I think he wants to stay in F1 and at McLaren and they'll settle for somewhere in between but if they don't budge from a straight 3yr deal then yeah I could see him going to WEC or Indy for a year and look again at F1 after the fallout of the next silly season and a good look at Renault/McLaren's performance. Why not?.

He seemed to me to be hinting in the presser that he's going for LeMans next year so maybe that needs sorting as well.

Him being unsure about McLaren seems to go against all this belief he was supposed to have in the team.

According to this pay article on Autosport he has already told McLaren that he would stay if they switched to Renault
https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/77 ... torn-apart

"McLaren was faced with a three-way choice as F1 reconvened at Spa:

1. Stick with Honda but potentially lose Alonso, who privately told McLaren he will definitely sign a new contract once McLaren agrees an engine deal with Renault.

2. Urge further negotiation of a deal between Toro Rosso and Honda by helping convince Honda to maintain its longer-term commitment to F1, freeing up the Renault engine supply McLaren seeks.

3. Divorce Honda but convince it to quit F1 altogether as part of the severance, placing the onus on the FIA to find McLaren an alternative engine for 2018 if one of the remaining manufacturers is not forthcoming."

And this other pay article on Autosport claims he enjoys life at McLaren
https://www.autosport.com/f1/feature/77 ... nso-future

"Honda apart, Fernando has been enthusiastic about his car this season, and the likelihood is that the McLaren chassis will again have the edge on Williams next year. What it will not have, though, is a Mercedes engine, so it's all a bit of a conundrum, is it not?

Alonso likes McLaren, feels at home there, and it will surprise me if he does not stay."

If that's all accurate then it would surprise everybody (Williams included) if he does not stay

Not sure if there is any truth to this but I've read in a couple of places that apparently Lance Stroll and Robert Kubica will take part in a private test for Williams (paid for by Lance's dad) possibly at Interlagos before the Brazilian Grand Prix.

owenmahamilton wrote:Not sure if there is any truth to this but I've read in a couple of places that apparently Lance Stroll and Robert Kubica will take part in a private test for Williams (paid for by Lance's dad) possibly at Interlagos before the Brazilian Grand Prix.

I read that too. Earlier even Williams had denied a private test for Stroll. In the same article it was mentioned that Kubica is William's no. 1 choice. It all depends if Massa wants to drive in 2018 or not.

UnlikeUday wrote:

owenmahamilton wrote:Not sure if there is any truth to this but I've read in a couple of places that apparently Lance Stroll and Robert Kubica will take part in a private test for Williams (paid for by Lance's dad) possibly at Interlagos before the Brazilian Grand Prix.

I read that too. Earlier even Williams had denied a private test for Stroll. In the same article it was mentioned that Kubica is William's no. 1 choice. It all depends if Massa wants to drive in 2018 or not.

Please, please, please let this be true!

I thought Alonso was hinting pretty hard about Le Mans next year in the presser on Thursday and later Zak said it wouldn't be a problem as long at it didn't interfere with the F1 programme (which it shouldn't).

Now Toyota are saying they are open to talks with Alonso but can't say anymore until their own future is decided. https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1318 ... mans-talks

I'm pretty convinced Alonso will be doing Le Mans now.

Publicly letting engine supply choices seem mainly due to keeping Alonso is a mistake for Maclaren to negotiate a deal

Luckily Mercedes and Ferrari and Red Bull all have made it clear they don't want Alonso

If Button had been making positive noises about his deal for next year that would help.....biggest positive is having Norris......I would be holding that over Alonso's neck as Vandoorne finally getting his act together...would vandoorne/norris not only be an exciting pairing but one for the future....

Perez has signed a new 1 year deal with Force India:
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/882595/1/p ... a-for-2018

I fear his time is nearly over or over to drive for a top team.

Wish he hadn't gone to McLaren in 2013 & had just been loyal to the Ferrari program!

UnlikeUday wrote:

owenmahamilton wrote:Not sure if there is any truth to this but I've read in a couple of places that apparently Lance Stroll and Robert Kubica will take part in a private test for Williams (paid for by Lance's dad) possibly at Interlagos before the Brazilian Grand Prix.

I read that too. Earlier even Williams had denied a private test for Stroll. In the same article it was mentioned that Kubica is William's no. 1 choice. It all depends if Massa wants to drive in 2018 or not.

This is all wonderful news

Jaicey wrote:Publicly letting engine supply choices seem mainly due to keeping Alonso is a mistake for Maclaren to negotiate a deal

Luckily Mercedes and Ferrari and Red Bull all have made it clear they don't want Alonso

If Button had been making positive noises about his deal for next year that would help.....biggest positive is having Norris......I would be holding that over Alonso's neck as Vandoorne finally getting his act together...would vandoorne/norris not only be an exciting pairing but one for the future....

"Luckily" for who? The other top drivers because their fiercest rival is severely hampered by his equipment?

UnlikeUday wrote:Perez has signed a new 1 year deal with Force India:
http://www.crash.net/f1/news/882595/1/p ... a-for-2018

I fear his time is nearly over or over to drive for a top team.

Wish he hadn't gone to McLaren in 2013 & had just been loyal to the Ferrari program!

And I think that takes Wehrlein off the grid. He's not going to get the second seat at Williams (not unless Mercedes basically cover the money Williams would lose by not having Martini's title sponsorship), Sauber are going to be Ferrari's junior team (and even if they don't, they'll run Leclerc and Ericsson) and something tells me Red Bull are not about to do Mercedes a favour and give him a seat at Toro Rosso! So unless there is an almighty shuffle left to unfold (Alonso not staying with McLaren, perhaps) then it would appear that he'll be left without a seat.

owenmahamilton wrote:Not sure if there is any truth to this but I've read in a couple of places that apparently Lance Stroll and Robert Kubica will take part in a private test for Williams (paid for by Lance's dad) possibly at Interlagos before the Brazilian Grand Prix.

That's good to hear, is this within the rules that you can do this, testing is limited?

mcdo wrote:

Jaicey wrote:Publicly letting engine supply choices seem mainly due to keeping Alonso is a mistake for Maclaren to negotiate a deal

Luckily Mercedes and Ferrari and Red Bull all have made it clear they don't want Alonso

If Button had been making positive noises about his deal for next year that would help.....biggest positive is having Norris......I would be holding that over Alonso's neck as Vandoorne finally getting his act together...would vandoorne/norris not only be an exciting pairing but one for the future....

"Luckily" for who? The other top drivers because their fiercest rival is severely hampered by his equipment?

Lucky for Maclaren and Ricciardo/Verstappen

pokerman wrote:

owenmahamilton wrote:Not sure if there is any truth to this but I've read in a couple of places that apparently Lance Stroll and Robert Kubica will take part in a private test for Williams (paid for by Lance's dad) possibly at Interlagos before the Brazilian Grand Prix.

That's good to hear, is this within the rules that you can do this, testing is limited?

They can't test current cars.

There's nothing stopping Williams dusting down their 2014 cars and doing a bit of running.

GingerFurball wrote:

pokerman wrote:

owenmahamilton wrote:Not sure if there is any truth to this but I've read in a couple of places that apparently Lance Stroll and Robert Kubica will take part in a private test for Williams (paid for by Lance's dad) possibly at Interlagos before the Brazilian Grand Prix.

That's good to hear, is this within the rules that you can do this, testing is limited?

They can't test current cars.

There's nothing stopping Williams dusting down their 2014 cars and doing a bit of running.

But they would still have to run on the "promotional event" tires I believe. Doesn't anybody know what car and which tires Stroll has been running at his private tests like the one prior to Spa?