planetf1.com

Jenson's Understeer wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

SteveW wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:Palmer had some fighting words in the press conference, he's definitely finishing the season with Renault plus he has option(s) for next year, I wonder if there are any legs in what Joe Saward said in that Palmer is being considered by Williams?

Would be absurd By Williams they already have the either the worst or 2nd worst driver lineup on the grid. It's almost harder to make it worse than better!

He's 26 years old though, so fits the Martini criteria......

You know that thread where I said I would never support another F1 team other than Williams, wellll.........

There are plenty of better and available drivers over 25.

One of which currently drives for Williams.

I'd understand dropping Massa if you can sign Alonso, or even if you can sign Sergio Perez. But Palmer? Come on, you may as well stick di Resta in the car full-time.

Yes Williams currently have two on their books! In all seriousness if they are desperate, why Palmer instead of somebody like Kobayashi, Sutil, Kovalainen, Glock or any other driver that's fallen out of F1 in the last 5 years that is better than Palmer.

If Palmer were to join Williams to partner Stroll, it would be the worst team pairing on the grid.

Apart from his financial backing, I see no further reason for Williams to be interested in him. I do believe Di Resta would be a good option but from PR point of view, he's never be considered.

Wonder if Perez is considering Williams or vice versa? He did say he has 2 options for 2018. Can't be Renault.

UnlikeUday wrote:If Palmer were to join Williams to partner Stroll, it would be the worst team pairing on the grid.

Apart from his financial backing, I see no further reason for Williams to be interested in him. I do believe Di Resta would be a good option but from PR point of view, he's never be considered.

Wonder if Perez is considering Williams or vice versa? He did say he has 2 options for 2018. Can't be Renault.

Early this year I would agree with you, however Stroll seems to be improving and may soon be quite a good driver. I dont think he is ever going to be top 6, but I dont think he will be the worst either.

What Di Resta has in favour is Mercedes backing also working for Skysports F1 from the PR side might have done him some favours and being also the Williams reserve driver has been a good move for
Di Resta that might help him get the 2nd Williams seat which I think he has a good shout of getting.

I'd rather see Palmer than Massa. We've seen all we're going to see from Felipe, this season just seems fairly pointless overall.

Palmer at least looked reasonable against KMag and whilst he may not be as good as Hulk, he'd be a lot closer with better luck. You can probably count the race weekends on one hand where he hasn't broken down at some point. He's not great but he's hardly Karthikeyan or Yamamoto.

scotlandforever wrote:What Di Resta has in favour is Mercedes backing also working for Skysports F1 from the PR side might have done him some favours and being also Williams reserve driver has been a good move for Di Resta.

Also, he is steady and seems not to be a abrasive co-driver.

mikeyg123 wrote:

SteveW wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:Palmer had some fighting words in the press conference, he's definitely finishing the season with Renault plus he has option(s) for next year, I wonder if there are any legs in what Joe Saward said in that Palmer is being considered by Williams?

Would be absurd By Williams they already have the either the worst or 2nd worst driver lineup on the grid. It's almost harder to make it worse than better!

He's 26 years old though, so fits the Martini criteria......

You know that thread where I said I would never support another F1 team other than Williams, wellll.........

There are plenty of better and available drivers over 25.

Do they come with sponsorship?

moby wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:If Palmer were to join Williams to partner Stroll, it would be the worst team pairing on the grid.

Apart from his financial backing, I see no further reason for Williams to be interested in him. I do believe Di Resta would be a good option but from PR point of view, he's never be considered.

Wonder if Perez is considering Williams or vice versa? He did say he has 2 options for 2018. Can't be Renault.

Early this year I would agree with you, however Stroll seems to be improving and may soon be quite a good driver. I dont think he is ever going to be top 6, but I dont think he will be the worst either.

Stroll has improved but at best he is only better than 3/4 others on the gird. Put him with Palmer and that is by far the worst lineup. Potentially 2 of the 3 worst F1 drivers in one team.

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

SteveW wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:Palmer had some fighting words in the press conference, he's definitely finishing the season with Renault plus he has option(s) for next year, I wonder if there are any legs in what Joe Saward said in that Palmer is being considered by Williams?

Would be absurd By Williams they already have the either the worst or 2nd worst driver lineup on the grid. It's almost harder to make it worse than better!

He's 26 years old though, so fits the Martini criteria......

You know that thread where I said I would never support another F1 team other than Williams, wellll.........

There are plenty of better and available drivers over 25.

Do they come with sponsorship?

Perez certainly does, Sutil always has etc....

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:There are plenty of better and available drivers over 25.

Do they come with sponsorship?

Perez certainly does, Sutil always has etc....

Perez yes, but I'd struggle to call Sutil a better driver than Palmer. Both are thoroughly mediocre at the F1 level.

Exediron wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:There are plenty of better and available drivers over 25.

Do they come with sponsorship?

Perez certainly does, Sutil always has etc....

Perez yes, but I'd struggle to call Sutil a better driver than Palmer. Both are thoroughly mediocre at the F1 level.

Sutil at his best was miles above Palmer. In a car as good as Palmer has this season Sutil was a regular points scorer. Sutil finished in the top 10 in the WDC one year.

How on earth is Palmer mediocre? Surely even if he was at the bottom of the middle third there would have to be 6/7 drivers worse than him. I just do see that. Sutil, I agree was a mediocre F1 driver. Palmer I don't think gets that far.

mikeyg123 wrote:

Exediron wrote:Perez yes, but I'd struggle to call Sutil a better driver than Palmer. Both are thoroughly mediocre at the F1 level.

Sutil at his best was miles above Palmer. In a car as good as Palmer has this season Sutil was a regular points scorer. Sutil finished in the top 10 in the WDC one year.

How on earth is Palmer mediocre? Surely even if he was at the bottom of the middle third there would have to be 6/7 drivers worse than him. I just do see that. Sutil, I agree was a mediocre F1 driver. Palmer I don't think gets that far.

I can see where you're coming from, but Palmer essentially matched Magnussen last year. I consider Magnussen a mediocre F1 driver, so that would imply Palmer is as well, and Hulk is just getting the best from this car.

But fair enough, maybe Palmer is worse than Sutil. I still wouldn't pick either one.

This Renault-Red Bull story gets better and better

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... al-953118/

I think that's just a negotiating tactic: Renault ask for Ricciardo (who they know they won't get) and then "settle" for Sainz, who they were already eyeing for a long time.

Williams, Rosberg as Kubica's manager, Massa's sad eyes... I'll get the popcorn

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

SteveW wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote: Would be absurd By Williams they already have the either the worst or 2nd worst driver lineup on the grid. It's almost harder to make it worse than better!

He's 26 years old though, so fits the Martini criteria......

You know that thread where I said I would never support another F1 team other than Williams, wellll.........

There are plenty of better and available drivers over 25.

Do they come with sponsorship?

Perez certainly does, Sutil always has etc....

Everything I read says that Perez is staying with Force India, whilst I thought that there were not that many tears with the departure of Sutil?

I wonder what this really means, Mercedes AMG own 5% of Aston Martin and their engines will be in some of Aston Martin's newest road cars but surely they won't supply engines badged as Aston Martin to Red Bull.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-hin ... rtnership/

Exediron wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

Exediron wrote:Perez yes, but I'd struggle to call Sutil a better driver than Palmer. Both are thoroughly mediocre at the F1 level.

Sutil at his best was miles above Palmer. In a car as good as Palmer has this season Sutil was a regular points scorer. Sutil finished in the top 10 in the WDC one year.

How on earth is Palmer mediocre? Surely even if he was at the bottom of the middle third there would have to be 6/7 drivers worse than him. I just do see that. Sutil, I agree was a mediocre F1 driver. Palmer I don't think gets that far.

I can see where you're coming from, but Palmer essentially matched Magnussen last year. I consider Magnussen a mediocre F1 driver, so that would imply Palmer is as well, and Hulk is just getting the best from this car.

But fair enough, maybe Palmer is worse than Sutil. I still wouldn't pick either one.

No Sutil isn't good enough either really, but if I had to choose between him.and Palmer then I'm not finding that a hard choice.

owenmahamilton wrote:I wonder what this really means, Mercedes AMG own 5% of Aston Martin and their engines will be in some of Aston Martin's newest road cars but surely they won't supply engines badged as Aston Martin to Red Bull.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-hin ... rtnership/

Yeah no way RB will be running a merc PU, it makes the whole honda to TR thing rather pointless and apart from that, mercedes crapped themselves last time at the thought of RB running the same PU as them and quickly shut that down.

owenmahamilton wrote:I wonder what this really means, Mercedes AMG own 5% of Aston Martin and their engines will be in some of Aston Martin's newest road cars but surely they won't supply engines badged as Aston Martin to Red Bull.

http://www.planetf1.com/news/horner-hin ... rtnership/

So after finally getting their hands on the Mercedes engine, Horner is still campaigning to get rid of them, that sort of doesn't add up?

pokerman wrote: Everything I read says that Perez is staying with Force India, whilst I thought that there were not that many tears with the departure of Sutil?

I think Perez to Williams would suit everybody. I really don't see what he has to gain by staying at FI and Williams would get one of the top drivers outside the established big 5.

Sutil isn't really good enough but is a consistent point scorer in a midfield car. Something that both Palmer and Stroll have proved not to be.

mikeyg123 wrote:

Exediron wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

Exediron wrote:Perez yes, but I'd struggle to call Sutil a better driver than Palmer. Both are thoroughly mediocre at the F1 level.

Sutil at his best was miles above Palmer. In a car as good as Palmer has this season Sutil was a regular points scorer. Sutil finished in the top 10 in the WDC one year.

How on earth is Palmer mediocre? Surely even if he was at the bottom of the middle third there would have to be 6/7 drivers worse than him. I just do see that. Sutil, I agree was a mediocre F1 driver. Palmer I don't think gets that far.

I can see where you're coming from, but Palmer essentially matched Magnussen last year. I consider Magnussen a mediocre F1 driver, so that would imply Palmer is as well, and Hulk is just getting the best from this car.

But fair enough, maybe Palmer is worse than Sutil. I still wouldn't pick either one.

No Sutil isn't good enough either really, but if I had to choose between him.and Palmer then I'm not finding that a hard choice.

Sutil hasn't driven a F1 car for 5/6 years and in particular the new generation of cars, plus he must be almost as old as Massa, this is not really a practical alternative.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Everything I read says that Perez is staying with Force India, whilst I thought that there were not that many tears with the departure of Sutil?

I think Perez to Williams would suit everybody. I really don't see what he has to gain by staying at FI and Williams would get one of the top drivers outside the established big 5.

Sutil isn't really good enough but is a consistent point scorer in a midfield car. Something that both Palmer and Stroll have proved not to be.

What you may think though doesn't seem to be the reality of the situation.

I've already posted about Sutil above.

pokerman wrote: Sutil hasn't driven a F1 car for 5/6 years and in particular the new generation of cars, plus he must be almost as old as Massa, this is not really a practical alternative.

3 years. Not that long. He's better than Palmer. Surely that's what matters rather than age.

But it doesn't have to be Sutil. There are a raft of drivers they could pick that are better than Palmer. And I'm not trying to be harsh. Just realistic.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Sutil hasn't driven a F1 car for 5/6 years and in particular the new generation of cars, plus he must be almost as old as Massa, this is not really a practical alternative.

3 years. Not that long. He's better than Palmer. Surely that's what matters rather than age.

But it doesn't have to be Sutil. There are a raft of drivers they could pick that are better than Palmer. And I'm not trying to be harsh. Just realistic.

They're probably not that many if Williams expect them to bring money, also does Sutil actually have the money to bring nowadays?

Sutil just seems such a strange driver to bring forward, Williams are going to be looking at active drivers in particular with recent F1 experience.

Sainz confirmed at Renault 'on loan' for 2018

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/head ... -2018.html

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Sutil hasn't driven a F1 car for 5/6 years and in particular the new generation of cars, plus he must be almost as old as Massa, this is not really a practical alternative.

3 years. Not that long. He's better than Palmer. Surely that's what matters rather than age.

But it doesn't have to be Sutil. There are a raft of drivers they could pick that are better than Palmer. And I'm not trying to be harsh. Just realistic.

They're probably not that many if Williams expect them to bring money, also does Sutil actually have the money to bring nowadays?

Sutil just seems such a strange driver to bring forward, Williams are going to be looking at active drivers in particular with recent F1 experience.

I'm not saying Sutil would be ideal just that he would do a better job than Palmer.

I don't think Williams need their second driver to bring money TBH. What would be more valuable would be a druvervwho can score points. If the 4th best car finishes 7th or 8th in the WDC then they have lost far more money than another pay driver would bring in.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Sutil hasn't driven a F1 car for 5/6 years and in particular the new generation of cars, plus he must be almost as old as Massa, this is not really a practical alternative.

3 years. Not that long. He's better than Palmer. Surely that's what matters rather than age.

But it doesn't have to be Sutil. There are a raft of drivers they could pick that are better than Palmer. And I'm not trying to be harsh. Just realistic.

They're probably not that many if Williams expect them to bring money, also does Sutil actually have the money to bring nowadays?

Sutil just seems such a strange driver to bring forward, Williams are going to be looking at active drivers in particular with recent F1 experience.

I'm not saying Sutil would be ideal just that he would do a better job than Palmer.

I don't think Williams need their second driver to bring money TBH. What would be more valuable would be a druvervwho can score points. If the 4th best car finishes 7th or 8th in the WDC then they have lost far more money than another pay driver would bring in.

Let's see how Williams have operated in recent years, they replaced the Hulk with Maldonado because of money, they replaced Barrichello with Senna because of money, they did replace Senna with Bottas but even Bottas had to bring some money.

When Maldonado left they still got money from his sponsors for a year when they brought in Massa who I believe also brought some money.

Thanks to the Mercedes engine Williams were able to earn some good money through WCC points and they kept Massa and Bottas, both good points scorers. However last year the team began to slide so they replaced Massa with Stroll because of money.

This year the team is struggling for WCC points even worse than the year before so replacing Massa with Palmer, a driver that brings money, would not be surprising in particular as they are paying Massa $6M this year.

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Sutil hasn't driven a F1 car for 5/6 years and in particular the new generation of cars, plus he must be almost as old as Massa, this is not really a practical alternative.

3 years. Not that long. He's better than Palmer. Surely that's what matters rather than age.

But it doesn't have to be Sutil. There are a raft of drivers they could pick that are better than Palmer. And I'm not trying to be harsh. Just realistic.

They're probably not that many if Williams expect them to bring money, also does Sutil actually have the money to bring nowadays?

Sutil just seems such a strange driver to bring forward, Williams are going to be looking at active drivers in particular with recent F1 experience.

I'm not saying Sutil would be ideal just that he would do a better job than Palmer.

I don't think Williams need their second driver to bring money TBH. What would be more valuable would be a druvervwho can score points. If the 4th best car finishes 7th or 8th in the WDC then they have lost far more money than another pay driver would bring in.

Let's see how Williams have operated in recent years, they replaced the Hulk with Maldonado because of money, they replaced Barrichello with Senna because of money, they did replace Senna with Bottas but even Bottas had to bring some money.

When Maldonado left they still got money from his sponsors for a year when they brought in Massa who I believe also brought some money.

Thanks to the Mercedes engine Williams were able to earn some good money through WCC points and they kept Massa and Bottas, both good points scorers. However last year the team began to slide so they replaced Massa with Stroll because of money.

This year the team is struggling for WCC points even worse than the year before so replacing Massa with Palmer, a driver that brings money, would not be surprising in particular as they are paying Massa $6M this year.

Brings us back to Perez being the ideal signing. Brings money, would drag the team up the constructors table, over 25, would be an upgrade on Massa etc.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote: 3 years. Not that long. He's better than Palmer. Surely that's what matters rather than age.

But it doesn't have to be Sutil. There are a raft of drivers they could pick that are better than Palmer. And I'm not trying to be harsh. Just realistic.

They're probably not that many if Williams expect them to bring money, also does Sutil actually have the money to bring nowadays?

Sutil just seems such a strange driver to bring forward, Williams are going to be looking at active drivers in particular with recent F1 experience.

I'm not saying Sutil would be ideal just that he would do a better job than Palmer.

I don't think Williams need their second driver to bring money TBH. What would be more valuable would be a druvervwho can score points. If the 4th best car finishes 7th or 8th in the WDC then they have lost far more money than another pay driver would bring in.

Let's see how Williams have operated in recent years, they replaced the Hulk with Maldonado because of money, they replaced Barrichello with Senna because of money, they did replace Senna with Bottas but even Bottas had to bring some money.

When Maldonado left they still got money from his sponsors for a year when they brought in Massa who I believe also brought some money.

Thanks to the Mercedes engine Williams were able to earn some good money through WCC points and they kept Massa and Bottas, both good points scorers. However last year the team began to slide so they replaced Massa with Stroll because of money.

This year the team is struggling for WCC points even worse than the year before so replacing Massa with Palmer, a driver that brings money, would not be surprising in particular as they are paying Massa $6M this year.

Brings us back to Perez being the ideal signing. Brings money, would drag the team up the constructors table, over 25, would be an upgrade on Massa etc.

Perez would be the best choice but does he want to go there, it doesn't sound like he does to me?

pokerman wrote: Perez would be the best choice but does he want to go there, it doesn't sound like he does to me?

I don't know. If I was Perez the only reason I wouldn't move would be if they wouldn't offer a 1 year deal or if he has seen something which makes him think the team will disadvantage him against Stroll.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Perez would be the best choice but does he want to go there, it doesn't sound like he does to me?

I don't know. If I was Perez the only reason I wouldn't move would be if they wouldn't offer a 1 year deal or if he has seen something which makes him think the team will disadvantage him against Stroll.

Assuming Alonso remains at McLaren, if I'm Perez then I stay with Force India. Even with Paddy Lowe at the team I don't have faith that Williams are going to jump ahead of FI next year. McLaren could, and Renault might as well, but I just don't see it with Williams. If anything I'd be more concerned they'll only have Haas, Sauber and Toro Rosso behind them, and that isn't going to do Perez any favours if he's still trying to get a move up the grid.

Then again, he should've gone to Renault when that chance was there but w/e.

Magnussen might want Sutil to come back so he could hope to lose the record as most races without a podium - assuming he doesn't get one in Singapore - which is of course possible

F1Oz wrote:Magnussen might want Sutil to come back so he could hope to lose the record as most races without a podium - assuming he doesn't get one in Singapore - which is of course possible

Magnussen has a podium and hasn't driven near the races of Sutil?

mikeyg123 wrote:

F1Oz wrote:Magnussen might want Sutil to come back so he could hope to lose the record as most races without a podium - assuming he doesn't get one in Singapore - which is of course possible

Magnussen has a podium and hasn't driven near the races of Sutil?

At his very first race. Ironically in Australia! Come on F1Oz...

F1Oz wrote:Magnussen might want Sutil to come back so he could hope to lose the record as most races without a podium - assuming he doesn't get one in Singapore - which is of course possible

The name you're looking for is Hulkenberg

Looking at it logically, if it is a stopgap driver needed, the obvious choice would be Button. He has said he feels like doing a full year again, take him on a race by race as he wants sort of basis and have a pay driver on stand buy (finger slip, but I left it in cos it was good )

Jenson's Understeer wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Perez would be the best choice but does he want to go there, it doesn't sound like he does to me?

I don't know. If I was Perez the only reason I wouldn't move would be if they wouldn't offer a 1 year deal or if he has seen something which makes him think the team will disadvantage him against Stroll.

Assuming Alonso remains at McLaren, if I'm Perez then I stay with Force India. Even with Paddy Lowe at the team I don't have faith that Williams are going to jump ahead of FI next year. McLaren could, and Renault might as well, but I just don't see it with Williams. If anything I'd be more concerned they'll only have Haas, Sauber and Toro Rosso behind them, and that isn't going to do Perez any favours if he's still trying to get a move up the grid.

Then again, he should've gone to Renault when that chance was there but w/e.

Perez didn't go to Renault because he was holding out for Ferrari, that ship may have sailed for him now?

moby wrote:Looking at it logically, if it is a stopgap driver needed, the obvious choice would be Button. He has said he feels like doing a full year again, take him on a race by race as he wants sort of basis and have a pay driver on stand buy (finger slip, but I left it in cos it was good )

Button has retired from F1, he mentioned racing in a lower series.

pokerman wrote:

Jenson's Understeer wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Perez would be the best choice but does he want to go there, it doesn't sound like he does to me?

I don't know. If I was Perez the only reason I wouldn't move would be if they wouldn't offer a 1 year deal or if he has seen something which makes him think the team will disadvantage him against Stroll.

Assuming Alonso remains at McLaren, if I'm Perez then I stay with Force India. Even with Paddy Lowe at the team I don't have faith that Williams are going to jump ahead of FI next year. McLaren could, and Renault might as well, but I just don't see it with Williams. If anything I'd be more concerned they'll only have Haas, Sauber and Toro Rosso behind them, and that isn't going to do Perez any favours if he's still trying to get a move up the grid.

Then again, he should've gone to Renault when that chance was there but w/e.

Perez didn't go to Renault because he was holding out for Ferrari, that ship may have sailed for him now?

Perez didn't go to Renault because his sponsors said no.