Silly season 2018

[mcdo]

As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.

Alonso was optimistic about 2015 as well like I said before he held all the cards.

and now it's claimed Verstappen has asked to be released from his contract early so he can join Ferrari in 2018:

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/07/07/ ... o-ferrari/

the article suggests 2019 is on the cards anyway but they are hoping to do it sooner

I know Verstappen has had a bad run but he has been all over the place in practice, he is fast but still way off the finished article in terms of temperament and consistency. SV and MV together would make LH and NR look like child's play.

It's only practice. Schumacher never had a problem with crashing on Fridays

[Lotus49]

No I think they were probably more annoyed at Alonso threatening to expose the emails in exchange for an unfettered run at the WDC.

So not the actual fine at all then.

Make your mind up and if you could let Mercedes know what it is they should be mad at when you've decided that would be great.

Were was the fine mentioned in the post I replied to?

Also I never said that Mercedes condoned the cheating which I'm sure they may well have been unaware of, I do believe however that there were not happy with the conduct of certain individuals like Coghlan and Alonso plus the financial penalty that they had to suffer.

You mentioned the fine first.."Me I personally I doubt it, one strong rumour I hear is that Mercedes have $100M reasons not to sign him".

Then you said it was because he submitted evidence, then because it was he threatened them for an unfettered run at the title.

You seem all over the place is all. And I'm sure they were fully aware when Ron first told Max and swore it had been confined to Coughlan. They also signed Lowe who's evidence was sketchy at best, if you believe his testimony then effectively Pedro De la Rosa ran the McLaren testing programme. How likely is that?.

I think Mercedes are more than comfortable with the cheating but less ok with the being caught and that fell on Alonso so it makes sense they blame him.

But it's not a good thing or admirable, they were just tiddled he blew it for them.

I'm not saying this because of what I think I say it because of things I hear which may turn out to be not true be they based on rumours as such which say the big man at Mercedes Dieter Zetsche would not be a Alonso fan.

And at least with your first comment you were right imo, I've read Wolff (or Zetsche, can't remember which) specifically mention the fine before.

It was the rest that was all you extrapolating beyond the fine that was all over the place.

[UnlikeUday]

Marchionne feels Raikkonen at times is quite laggard as he has just scored half the points of Vettel:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-motor- ... KKBN19U0FT

It's getting close to the summer break & contract negotiations will have to begin. Before that, Raikkonen needs to shine a little brighter.

[Zoue]

Marchionne feels Raikkonen at times is quite laggard as he has just scored half the points of Vettel:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-motor- ... KKBN19U0FT

It's getting close to the summer break & contract negotiations will have to begin. Before that, Raikkonen needs to shine a little brighter.

well, I'd agree with him. Kimi is costing them the WCC. He should have been 3rd today and finishing as far behind Ricciardo as he did is a bit of a disgrace tbh.

[mikeyg123]

Kimi was very poor today.

It's not just a lack speed. He never tries to overtake anyone and never puts up much of a defence.

I still think Ferrari may keep him though.

[UnlikeUday]

Kimi was very poor today.

It's not just a lack speed. He never tries to overtake anyone and never puts up much of a defence.

I still think Ferrari may keep him though.

I think any of the rumoured drivers would've been faster today than him.

[pokerman]

what I meant by that was that a driver's position is always at risk from a better driver. That's just the way it works

Bottas is only at risk from tier 1 drivers and like I said top teams seem to be a bit averse from pairing tier 1 drivers together.

And Alonso is a tier one driver, wouldn't you say? So should the above be true then even if it may suck for Bottas it's also pretty logical and straightforward. That's the way the game is played

I think there are quite a few examples of that game not being played by the top teams.

I'm sorry, I don't really understand what point you are making. You said it would suck for Bottas but I was just pointing out that drivers being replaced by better ones is a fact of F1. It's always been this way

I said that the only better drivers than Bottas are the tier 1 drivers, however the top teams don't always like pairing tier 1 drivers together and we surely have examples of that in the past.

[pokerman]

As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.

Alonso was optimistic about 2015 as well like I said before he held all the cards.

and now it's claimed Verstappen has asked to be released from his contract early so he can join Ferrari in 2018:

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/07/07/ ... o-ferrari/

the article suggests 2019 is on the cards anyway but they are hoping to do it sooner

I know Verstappen has had a bad run but he has been all over the place in practice, he is fast but still way off the finished article in terms of temperament and consistency. SV and MV together would make LH and NR look like child's play.

Well according to Kravitz (yea, yea I know. Kravitz ) the rumour is it's Hamilton/Verstappen, not Vettel/Verstappen at Ferrari from 2019.

For that to be true then for starters Vettel must be joining Mercedes for 2018.

[pokerman]

So not the actual fine at all then.

Make your mind up and if you could let Mercedes know what it is they should be mad at when you've decided that would be great.

Were was the fine mentioned in the post I replied to?

Also I never said that Mercedes condoned the cheating which I'm sure they may well have been unaware of, I do believe however that there were not happy with the conduct of certain individuals like Coghlan and Alonso plus the financial penalty that they had to suffer.

You mentioned the fine first.."Me I personally I doubt it, one strong rumour I hear is that Mercedes have $100M reasons not to sign him".

Then you said it was because he submitted evidence, then because it was he threatened them for an unfettered run at the title.

You seem all over the place is all. And I'm sure they were fully aware when Ron first told Max and swore it had been confined to Coughlan. They also signed Lowe who's evidence was sketchy at best, if you believe his testimony then effectively Pedro De la Rosa ran the McLaren testing programme. How likely is that?.

I think Mercedes are more than comfortable with the cheating but less ok with the being caught and that fell on Alonso so it makes sense they blame him.

But it's not a good thing or admirable, they were just tiddled he blew it for them.

I'm not saying this because of what I think I say it because of things I hear which may turn out to be not true be they based on rumours as such which say the big man at Mercedes Dieter Zetsche would not be a Alonso fan.

And at least with your first comment you were right imo, I've read Wolff (or Zetsche, can't remember which) specifically mention the fine before.

It was the rest that was all you extrapolating beyond the fine that was all over the place.

Why can't it be more than one thing, I also heard they were not impressed by his behaviour either, let's not also forget the accusations he made against his own team regarding sabotaging his car.

[pokerman]

Marchionne feels Raikkonen at times is quite laggard as he has just scored half the points of Vettel:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-motor- ... KKBN19U0FT

It's getting close to the summer break & contract negotiations will have to begin. Before that, Raikkonen needs to shine a little brighter.

Yeah I just started a post about Kimi, his performance level is not good enough.

[Lotus49]

Were was the fine mentioned in the post I replied to?

Also I never said that Mercedes condoned the cheating which I'm sure they may well have been unaware of, I do believe however that there were not happy with the conduct of certain individuals like Coghlan and Alonso plus the financial penalty that they had to suffer.

You mentioned the fine first.."Me I personally I doubt it, one strong rumour I hear is that Mercedes have $100M reasons not to sign him".

Then you said it was because he submitted evidence, then because it was he threatened them for an unfettered run at the title.

You seem all over the place is all. And I'm sure they were fully aware when Ron first told Max and swore it had been confined to Coughlan. They also signed Lowe who's evidence was sketchy at best, if you believe his testimony then effectively Pedro De la Rosa ran the McLaren testing programme. How likely is that?.

I think Mercedes are more than comfortable with the cheating but less ok with the being caught and that fell on Alonso so it makes sense they blame him.

But it's not a good thing or admirable, they were just tiddled he blew it for them.

I'm not saying this because of what I think I say it because of things I hear which may turn out to be not true be they based on rumours as such which say the big man at Mercedes Dieter Zetsche would not be a Alonso fan.

And at least with your first comment you were right imo, I've read Wolff (or Zetsche, can't remember which) specifically mention the fine before.

It was the rest that was all you extrapolating beyond the fine that was all over the place.

Why can't it be more than one thing, I also heard they were not impressed by his behaviour either, let's not also forget the accusations he made against his own team regarding sabotaging his car.

It could be many things, one thing or nothing. I wasn't there poker. I backed up your fine statement because I had read the same thing but I've also read them say it's not an issue.

I'm sure there are lot's of theories as to what, if anything, Mercedes are specifically mad at but I'm not entirely sure why you keep sending them to me to be honest. That's Sabotage,Blackmail and Grassing on them now added to the Fine theory. (I'm not asking you to add to it, to be clear)

[Randine]

Marchionne feels Raikkonen at times is quite laggard as he has just scored half the points of Vettel:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-motor- ... KKBN19U0FT

It's getting close to the summer break & contract negotiations will have to begin. Before that, Raikkonen needs to shine a little brighter.

Yeah I just started a post about Kimi, his performance level is not good enough.

And if Ferrari want a WCC, they need someone more consistent.
I think Kimi is still very quick when he is motivated. However he seems to moan a lot on team radio rather than just put his head down.
In Kimi’s defence, how many times this year have Ferrari deliberately messed with his strategy to try and elevate Seb? The half points comparison is not really fair!!

[Randine]

As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.

Alonso was optimistic about 2015 as well like I said before he held all the cards.

and now it's claimed Verstappen has asked to be released from his contract early so he can join Ferrari in 2018:

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/07/07/ ... o-ferrari/

the article suggests 2019 is on the cards anyway but they are hoping to do it sooner

I know Verstappen has had a bad run but he has been all over the place in practice, he is fast but still way off the finished article in terms of temperament and consistency. SV and MV together would make LH and NR look like child's play.

It's only practice. Schumacher never had a problem with crashing on Fridays

Which is what made him so good! Pushing to the very edge to find where you might be giving away time was his specialty! Then he wouldn’t repeat that mistake again.

[Randine]

As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.

Alonso was optimistic about 2015 as well like I said before he held all the cards.

and now it's claimed Verstappen has asked to be released from his contract early so he can join Ferrari in 2018:

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/07/07/ ... o-ferrari/

the article suggests 2019 is on the cards anyway but they are hoping to do it sooner

I know Verstappen has had a bad run but he has been all over the place in practice, he is fast but still way off the finished article in terms of temperament and consistency. SV and MV together would make LH and NR look like child's play.

Well according to Kravitz (yea, yea I know. Kravitz ) the rumour is it's Hamilton/Verstappen, not Vettel/Verstappen at Ferrari from 2019.

To me that move would be wrong for Max.
Merc will probably improve under Alison, especially as he knows a lot about the current Ferrari design.
And the Renault engine is improving all the time, which should make Red Bull a serious title contender for 2018.
Ferrari are good this year, however I think that has more to do with Merc producing a chassis that is not as good as previous years. (Some circuits they know exactly how to set it up. Others Ham or Bottas are off the pace.)

A wild prediction for 2018:
Merc - Vettel/ Bottas
Ferrari - Alonso/Sainz
McLaren - Hamilton/Vandoorne
Red Bull - Max/Dan

Ham after achieving all he can at Merc decides to go back ‘home’ to McLaren. Honda want a known driver and happily cough up 50 mil euro making Ham the highest paid F1 driver ever....!
(When Ham went to Merc everyone in the media thought he was crazy! A few WDC later and looking back it was a stroke of genius!)
Could he do it again in reverse as Honda deliver a great engine for 2018?
(Not likely, but one can dream a little!)

[Zoue]

Marchionne now saying that Alonso's been in touch, but Ferrari aren't interested.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... rn-928941/

In the same interview he says nothing's been signed with Max Verstappen "yet." Very different phrasing. Could it be Alonso has burned his bridges at Ferrari?

[UnlikeUday]

Marchionne now saying that Alonso's been in touch, but Ferrari aren't interested.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... rn-928941/

In the same interview he says nothing's been signed with Max Verstappen "yet." Very different phrasing. Could it be Alonso has burned his bridges at Ferrari?

Whatever the case with these 2, I hope Kimi gets replaced. Let him be a brand ambassador or have a similar PR oriented role for Ferrari.

[moby]

Strange no one is mentioning Seb to Mclaren. (maybe not 2018, but 2019?)

Not so stupid if you think about it. Mclaren has lots of money.
Seb did much of the development when the Red Bull was just coming right and knows the score.

Schumacher went to a Ferrari that was poor and developed it along with it.

A lure like Seb will bring engineers to Mclaren Honda as will the Honda name and Honda money.

There has been a lot of departures from Ferrari and the team that developed the car seems to have split up, and also a return to top managers making decisions to fire people like in the old days. Also, Ron Dennis is no longer at Mclaren, so some who would not have gone there before now will.

OK, pure speculation on my part, but the drivers and their managers know what is happing, and someone must have come up with this scenario.

[Zoue]

Strange no one is mentioning Seb to Mclaren. (maybe not 2018, but 2019?)

Not so stupid if you think about it. Mclaren has lots of money.
Seb did much of the development when the Red Bull was just coming right and knows the score.

Schumacher went to a Ferrari that was poor and developed it along with it.

A lure like Seb will bring engineers to Mclaren Honda as will the Honda name and Honda money.

There has been a lot of departures from Ferrari and the team that developed the car seems to have split up, and also a return to top managers making decisions to fire people like in the old days. Also, Ron Dennis is no longer at Mclaren, so some who would not have gone there before now will.

OK, pure speculation on my part, but the drivers and their managers know what is happing, and someone must have come up with this scenario.

Would be desperately ironic for Alonso if he left McLaren only for them to surge to the front with Vettel.

He rejects an offer from Red Bull for 2009, only for Seb to take the seat and start his run of titles. He then leaves Ferrari after getting frustrated with lack of progress, only for Seb to take the seat and start challenging for a title. And if he leaves McLaren for Seb to replace him and start winning, it's going to be three consecutive times Seb has benefited at Alonso's expense. That would definitely hurt!

[Jenson's Understeer]

Well Ferrari have appeared to rule out a return for Alonso, as well as downplaying suggestions they might sign Verstappen for 2018: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... rn-928941/

I don't find this hugely surprising on either part. Kind of surprised they aren't playing along with it to keep Kimi on his toes, but I guess they think coming out and publicly criticising his performance is a better way to get him to speed up...

[mcdo]

Marchionne now saying that Alonso's been in touch, but Ferrari aren't interested.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... rn-928941/

In the same interview he says nothing's been signed with Max Verstappen "yet." Very different phrasing. Could it be Alonso has burned his bridges at Ferrari?

That's that then

[hairy_scotsman]

Marchionne now saying that Alonso's been in touch, but Ferrari aren't interested.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... rn-928941/

In the same interview he says nothing's been signed with Max Verstappen "yet." Very different phrasing. Could it be Alonso has burned his bridges at Ferrari?

That's that then

Well, later he said "We have received requests to return Alonso, but we have two very good drivers, so it is not possible to arrive for now."

Whenever I hear these F1 types talk, I'm often reminded of Tuco's line in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly:
"There are two kinds of spurs, my friend: Those that come in by the door, and those that come in by the window."

[RaggedMan]

Marchionne now saying that Alonso's been in touch, but Ferrari aren't interested.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... rn-928941/

In the same interview he says nothing's been signed with Max Verstappen "yet." Very different phrasing. Could it be Alonso has burned his bridges at Ferrari?

That's that then

Well, later he said "We have received requests to return Alonso, but we have two very good drivers, so it is not possible to arrive for now."

Whenever I hear these F1 types talk, I'm often reminded of Tuco's line in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly:
"There are two kinds of spurs, my friend: Those that come in by the door, and those that come in by the window."

Leave it to a Texan to come up with a movie reference about spurs!

[hairy_scotsman]

Marchionne now saying that Alonso's been in touch, but Ferrari aren't interested.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... rn-928941/

In the same interview he says nothing's been signed with Max Verstappen "yet." Very different phrasing. Could it be Alonso has burned his bridges at Ferrari?

That's that then

Well, later he said "We have received requests to return Alonso, but we have two very good drivers, so it is not possible to arrive for now."

Whenever I hear these F1 types talk, I'm often reminded of Tuco's line in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly:
"There are two kinds of spurs, my friend: Those that come in by the door, and those that come in by the window."

Leave it to a Texan to come up with a movie reference about spurs!

But those spurs were Spanish. The movie was filmed in Spain.

[pokerman]

Strange no one is mentioning Seb to Mclaren. (maybe not 2018, but 2019?)

Not so stupid if you think about it. Mclaren has lots of money.
Seb did much of the development when the Red Bull was just coming right and knows the score.

Schumacher went to a Ferrari that was poor and developed it along with it.

A lure like Seb will bring engineers to Mclaren Honda as will the Honda name and Honda money.

There has been a lot of departures from Ferrari and the team that developed the car seems to have split up, and also a return to top managers making decisions to fire people like in the old days. Also, Ron Dennis is no longer at Mclaren, so some who would not have gone there before now will.

OK, pure speculation on my part, but the drivers and their managers know what is happing, and someone must have come up with this scenario.

Would be desperately ironic for Alonso if he left McLaren only for them to surge to the front with Vettel.

He rejects an offer from Red Bull for 2009, only for Seb to take the seat and start his run of titles. He then leaves Ferrari after getting frustrated with lack of progress, only for Seb to take the seat and start challenging for a title. And if he leaves McLaren for Seb to replace him and start winning, it's going to be three consecutive times Seb has benefited at Alonso's expense. That would definitely hurt!

I believe it was for 2008 when Alonso got offered the Red Bull seat along with the Honda seat that later turned into a Mercedes seat.

Anyway it would be a bit crazy for either Vettel or Hamilton to take the McLaren Honda seat.

[pokerman]

Marchionne now saying that Alonso's been in touch, but Ferrari aren't interested.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... rn-928941/

In the same interview he says nothing's been signed with Max Verstappen "yet." Very different phrasing. Could it be Alonso has burned his bridges at Ferrari?

That's that then

Well, later he said "We have received requests to return Alonso, but we have two very good drivers, so it is not possible to arrive for now."

Whenever I hear these F1 types talk, I'm often reminded of Tuco's line in The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly:
"There are two kinds of spurs, my friend: Those that come in by the door, and those that come in by the window."

Leave it to a Texan to come up with a movie reference about spurs!

But those spurs were Spanish. The movie was filmed in Spain.

They were called spaghetti westerns which I guess was also wrong?

[hairy_scotsman]

Strange no one is mentioning Seb to Mclaren. (maybe not 2018, but 2019?)

Not so stupid if you think about it. Mclaren has lots of money.
Seb did much of the development when the Red Bull was just coming right and knows the score.

Schumacher went to a Ferrari that was poor and developed it along with it.

A lure like Seb will bring engineers to Mclaren Honda as will the Honda name and Honda money.

There has been a lot of departures from Ferrari and the team that developed the car seems to have split up, and also a return to top managers making decisions to fire people like in the old days. Also, Ron Dennis is no longer at Mclaren, so some who would not have gone there before now will.

OK, pure speculation on my part, but the drivers and their managers know what is happing, and someone must have come up with this scenario.

Would be desperately ironic for Alonso if he left McLaren only for them to surge to the front with Vettel.

He rejects an offer from Red Bull for 2009, only for Seb to take the seat and start his run of titles. He then leaves Ferrari after getting frustrated with lack of progress, only for Seb to take the seat and start challenging for a title. And if he leaves McLaren for Seb to replace him and start winning, it's going to be three consecutive times Seb has benefited at Alonso's expense. That would definitely hurt!

I believe it was for 2008 when Alonso got offered the Red Bull seat along with the Honda seat that later turned into a Mercedes seat.

Anyway it would be a bit crazy for either Vettel or Hamilton to take the McLaren Honda seat.

I think that's right, and nobody then said he was crazy to turn down those seats, neither of which looked that promising at the time. Many, however, love to make a big deal of it, as if they would have jumped on those opportunities. Hindsight, as always, is 20/20.

[hairy_scotsman]

They were called spaghetti westerns which I guess was also wrong?

Yeah I've always thought that was kinda interesting. Maybe it's because of the Sergio Leone influence?

[Zoue]

They were called spaghetti westerns which I guess was also wrong?

Yeah I've always thought that was kinda interesting. Maybe it's because of the Sergio Leone influence?

It just refers to a genre of westerns in the mid 60s onwards that were made predominantly by italians. Many were actually filmed in italian

[Zoue]

Strange no one is mentioning Seb to Mclaren. (maybe not 2018, but 2019?)

Not so stupid if you think about it. Mclaren has lots of money.
Seb did much of the development when the Red Bull was just coming right and knows the score.

Schumacher went to a Ferrari that was poor and developed it along with it.

A lure like Seb will bring engineers to Mclaren Honda as will the Honda name and Honda money.

There has been a lot of departures from Ferrari and the team that developed the car seems to have split up, and also a return to top managers making decisions to fire people like in the old days. Also, Ron Dennis is no longer at Mclaren, so some who would not have gone there before now will.

OK, pure speculation on my part, but the drivers and their managers know what is happing, and someone must have come up with this scenario.

Would be desperately ironic for Alonso if he left McLaren only for them to surge to the front with Vettel.

He rejects an offer from Red Bull for 2009, only for Seb to take the seat and start his run of titles. He then leaves Ferrari after getting frustrated with lack of progress, only for Seb to take the seat and start challenging for a title. And if he leaves McLaren for Seb to replace him and start winning, it's going to be three consecutive times Seb has benefited at Alonso's expense. That would definitely hurt!

I believe it was for 2008 when Alonso got offered the Red Bull seat along with the Honda seat that later turned into a Mercedes seat.

Anyway it would be a bit crazy for either Vettel or Hamilton to take the McLaren Honda seat.

You may be right, but I thought it was in 2008 for the 2009 season?

Agree that with the state of Honda now Seb or Lewis wold have to have the mother of all crystal balls to take the McLaren seat

[UnlikeUday]

Perez who has a contract with Force India only for this year, as of now is not willing to extend his stay there. This was the plan anyway the driver market would be wider in 2018. Either he's in talks with more than 1 team or his sponsors are making some decisions (just like how they told Perez not to join Renault this year).

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-315225.html

In the article above he has said "There are many options this year in the driver market"! Is he guessing or does he know more than us?

[Robot]

Perez who has a contract with Force India only for this year, as of now is not willing to extend his stay there. This was the plan anyway the driver market would be wider in 2018. Either he's in talks with more than 1 team or his sponsors are making some decisions (just like how they told Perez not to join Renault this year).

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-315225.html

In the article above he has said "There are many options this year in the driver market"! Is he guessing or does he know more than us?

Alonso said the same thing, more options in the market than what people thinks. The silly season most of the time disappoints, can't wait to see how Ferrari and Mercedes keep their drivers for next year.

[pokerman]

Strange no one is mentioning Seb to Mclaren. (maybe not 2018, but 2019?)

Not so stupid if you think about it. Mclaren has lots of money.
Seb did much of the development when the Red Bull was just coming right and knows the score.

Schumacher went to a Ferrari that was poor and developed it along with it.

A lure like Seb will bring engineers to Mclaren Honda as will the Honda name and Honda money.

There has been a lot of departures from Ferrari and the team that developed the car seems to have split up, and also a return to top managers making decisions to fire people like in the old days. Also, Ron Dennis is no longer at Mclaren, so some who would not have gone there before now will.

OK, pure speculation on my part, but the drivers and their managers know what is happing, and someone must have come up with this scenario.

Would be desperately ironic for Alonso if he left McLaren only for them to surge to the front with Vettel.

He rejects an offer from Red Bull for 2009, only for Seb to take the seat and start his run of titles. He then leaves Ferrari after getting frustrated with lack of progress, only for Seb to take the seat and start challenging for a title. And if he leaves McLaren for Seb to replace him and start winning, it's going to be three consecutive times Seb has benefited at Alonso's expense. That would definitely hurt!

I believe it was for 2008 when Alonso got offered the Red Bull seat along with the Honda seat that later turned into a Mercedes seat.

Anyway it would be a bit crazy for either Vettel or Hamilton to take the McLaren Honda seat.

I think that's right, and nobody then said he was crazy to turn down those seats, neither of which looked that promising at the time. Many, however, love to make a big deal of it, as if they would have jumped on those opportunities. Hindsight, as always, is 20/20.

Indeed but Red Bull did have Adrian Newey, were Renault really the better option at that time?

[pokerman]

They were called spaghetti westerns which I guess was also wrong?

Yeah I've always thought that was kinda interesting. Maybe it's because of the Sergio Leone influence?

Oh I see the Italian director, that makes more sense then.

[pokerman]

Strange no one is mentioning Seb to Mclaren. (maybe not 2018, but 2019?)

Not so stupid if you think about it. Mclaren has lots of money.
Seb did much of the development when the Red Bull was just coming right and knows the score.

Schumacher went to a Ferrari that was poor and developed it along with it.

A lure like Seb will bring engineers to Mclaren Honda as will the Honda name and Honda money.

There has been a lot of departures from Ferrari and the team that developed the car seems to have split up, and also a return to top managers making decisions to fire people like in the old days. Also, Ron Dennis is no longer at Mclaren, so some who would not have gone there before now will.

OK, pure speculation on my part, but the drivers and their managers know what is happing, and someone must have come up with this scenario.

Would be desperately ironic for Alonso if he left McLaren only for them to surge to the front with Vettel.

He rejects an offer from Red Bull for 2009, only for Seb to take the seat and start his run of titles. He then leaves Ferrari after getting frustrated with lack of progress, only for Seb to take the seat and start challenging for a title. And if he leaves McLaren for Seb to replace him and start winning, it's going to be three consecutive times Seb has benefited at Alonso's expense. That would definitely hurt!

I believe it was for 2008 when Alonso got offered the Red Bull seat along with the Honda seat that later turned into a Mercedes seat.

Anyway it would be a bit crazy for either Vettel or Hamilton to take the McLaren Honda seat.

You may be right, but I thought it was in 2008 for the 2009 season?

Agree that with the state of Honda now Seb or Lewis wold have to have the mother of all crystal balls to take the McLaren seat

He signed a 2 year deal with Renault I believe so was going nowhere else in 2009, also why would Red Bull want him for 2009 when he was free for 2008?

[pokerman]

Perez who has a contract with Force India only for this year, as of now is not willing to extend his stay there. This was the plan anyway the driver market would be wider in 2018. Either he's in talks with more than 1 team or his sponsors are making some decisions (just like how they told Perez not to join Renault this year).

http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-315225.html

In the article above he has said "There are many options this year in the driver market"! Is he guessing or does he know more than us?

Alonso said the same thing, more options in the market than what people thinks. The silly season most of the time disappoints, can't wait to see how Ferrari and Mercedes keep their drivers for next year.

I guess it's sort of stating the obvious, there are 2 seats at Ferrari, 1 at Mercedes, 1 at Renault and 1 at McLaren.

[mikeyg123]

Strange no one is mentioning Seb to Mclaren. (maybe not 2018, but 2019?)

Not so stupid if you think about it. Mclaren has lots of money.
Seb did much of the development when the Red Bull was just coming right and knows the score.

Schumacher went to a Ferrari that was poor and developed it along with it.

A lure like Seb will bring engineers to Mclaren Honda as will the Honda name and Honda money.

There has been a lot of departures from Ferrari and the team that developed the car seems to have split up, and also a return to top managers making decisions to fire people like in the old days. Also, Ron Dennis is no longer at Mclaren, so some who would not have gone there before now will.

OK, pure speculation on my part, but the drivers and their managers know what is happing, and someone must have come up with this scenario.

Would be desperately ironic for Alonso if he left McLaren only for them to surge to the front with Vettel.

He rejects an offer from Red Bull for 2009, only for Seb to take the seat and start his run of titles. He then leaves Ferrari after getting frustrated with lack of progress, only for Seb to take the seat and start challenging for a title. And if he leaves McLaren for Seb to replace him and start winning, it's going to be three consecutive times Seb has benefited at Alonso's expense. That would definitely hurt!

I believe it was for 2008 when Alonso got offered the Red Bull seat along with the Honda seat that later turned into a Mercedes seat.

Anyway it would be a bit crazy for either Vettel or Hamilton to take the McLaren Honda seat.

I think that's right, and nobody then said he was crazy to turn down those seats, neither of which looked that promising at the time. Many, however, love to make a big deal of it, as if they would have jumped on those opportunities. Hindsight, as always, is 20/20.

Indeed but Red Bull did have Adrian Newey, were Renault really the better option at that time?

You're looking at it with the benefit of hindsight. Newey had just come off a period of being pretty ordinary and had never looked lke winning anything. Renault had won both championships 13 months before Alonso resigned.

[Lotus49]

He was also talking to Ferrari throughout 2008 and was only interested in short term deals which no-one remembers. He got that at Renault.

Italian press were already calling it a done deal to Ferrari for 2011 or 2010 if Kimi could be paid off, and this was in the summer of 2008. He was only ever aiming at Ferrari so it's not like he thought Renault were a better long term bet than Red Bull or Honda he just knew where he was going long term so it didn't matter what potential Red Bull had.

[GingerFurball]

Strange no one is mentioning Seb to Mclaren. (maybe not 2018, but 2019?)

Not so stupid if you think about it. Mclaren has lots of money.
Seb did much of the development when the Red Bull was just coming right and knows the score.

Schumacher went to a Ferrari that was poor and developed it along with it.

A lure like Seb will bring engineers to Mclaren Honda as will the Honda name and Honda money.

There has been a lot of departures from Ferrari and the team that developed the car seems to have split up, and also a return to top managers making decisions to fire people like in the old days. Also, Ron Dennis is no longer at Mclaren, so some who would not have gone there before now will.

OK, pure speculation on my part, but the drivers and their managers know what is happing, and someone must have come up with this scenario.

Would be desperately ironic for Alonso if he left McLaren only for them to surge to the front with Vettel.

He rejects an offer from Red Bull for 2009, only for Seb to take the seat and start his run of titles. He then leaves Ferrari after getting frustrated with lack of progress, only for Seb to take the seat and start challenging for a title. And if he leaves McLaren for Seb to replace him and start winning, it's going to be three consecutive times Seb has benefited at Alonso's expense. That would definitely hurt!

I believe it was for 2008 when Alonso got offered the Red Bull seat along with the Honda seat that later turned into a Mercedes seat.

Anyway it would be a bit crazy for either Vettel or Hamilton to take the McLaren Honda seat.

I think that's right, and nobody then said he was crazy to turn down those seats, neither of which looked that promising at the time. Many, however, love to make a big deal of it, as if they would have jumped on those opportunities. Hindsight, as always, is 20/20.

Indeed but Red Bull did have Adrian Newey, were Renault really the better option at that time?

Adrian Newey wouldn't have been a draw card in 2008.

[Zoue]

I believe it was for 2008 when Alonso got offered the Red Bull seat along with the Honda seat that later turned into a Mercedes seat.

Anyway it would be a bit crazy for either Vettel or Hamilton to take the McLaren Honda seat.

I think that's right, and nobody then said he was crazy to turn down those seats, neither of which looked that promising at the time. Many, however, love to make a big deal of it, as if they would have jumped on those opportunities. Hindsight, as always, is 20/20.

Indeed but Red Bull did have Adrian Newey, were Renault really the better option at that time?

Adrian Newey wouldn't have been a draw card in 2008.

He had plenty of success before Red Bull

[mikeyg123]

I believe it was for 2008 when Alonso got offered the Red Bull seat along with the Honda seat that later turned into a Mercedes seat.

Anyway it would be a bit crazy for either Vettel or Hamilton to take the McLaren Honda seat.

I think that's right, and nobody then said he was crazy to turn down those seats, neither of which looked that promising at the time. Many, however, love to make a big deal of it, as if they would have jumped on those opportunities. Hindsight, as always, is 20/20.

Indeed but Red Bull did have Adrian Newey, were Renault really the better option at that time?

Adrian Newey wouldn't have been a draw card in 2008.

He had plenty of success before Red Bull

But had just come off a lean period at Mclaren. Having him was obviously a plus but hardly made Red Bull a sure bet at the time.