Silly season 2018

Black_Flag_11 · Post by **Black_Flag_11** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:33 am

UnlikeUday wrote:As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.

Wow that would be incredible, don't quite believe it yet but what an awesome season we could have if Ferrari and Mercedes were about this close next year with Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel all going for the title!

mcdo · Post by **mcdo** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:24 pm

UnlikeUday wrote:As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.

Stahp don't do this to me

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:22 pm

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.
Wow that would be incredible, don't quite believe it yet but what an awesome season we could have if Ferrari and Mercedes were about this close next year with Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel all going for the title!

Yeah, as much as part of me would be sorry to see Kimi go I think he's past his sell-by date now and not the best man for the seat. I'm part excited at the prospect of Alonso being in a competitive (I hope!) Ferrari, part saddened that he won't stick around to propel McLaren back to the front (not that I blame him, I might add). But I do think F1 misses him at the front of the grid and he needs to be there, whatever car he's in

Covalent · Post by **Covalent** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:02 pm

Goodbye to the competitive Ferrari then.

Robot · Post by **Robot** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:13 pm

Covalent wrote:Goodbye to the competitive Ferrari then.

Alonso the engine and aero designer, destroyer of worlds.

moby · Post by **moby** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:58 am

I wonder how much of Allison's input is in this car, and how long it will be relative, and importantly, who is driving development.

It seems par for the course that Alonso goes there next year and they are running 3rd again fighting with Williams and F1.

mcdo · Post by **mcdo** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:17 am

moby wrote:I wonder how much of Allison's input is in this car, and how long it will be relative, and importantly, who is driving development.

It seems par for the course that Alonso goes there next year and they are running 3rd again fighting with Williams and F1.

I saw an F1 Report thing on Sky F1 recently with Pat Fry as a guest. I wasn't fond of him at Ferrari because he started blaming the drivers but I did feel sorry him during the Sky F1 chat. Ferrari sounded like a high pressure nightmare of frustration

He said that when he came to Ferrari they were about 8-10 years behind in terms of facilities and technology. The wind tunnel was old and wasn't working right, the simulation tools were horrendously out of date, etc. The culture was all about "win the next race, we have to win the next race". All focus was on the next race and there was no long term plan. So he set about trying to change that by updating and fixing the wind tunnel, which took 1.5-2 years, and updating the simulation tools, which would have taken 7-8 years. Obviously in classic Ferrari fashion he was dropped in that time

Fry reckons that's where they are now - the planning from years ago has finally come to fruition and they're reaping the benefits. There is the chance he was bigging himself up and taking a bit of credit but IMO it ties in well with what Vettel kept saying about the team making huge progress in 2016

Jenson's Understeer · Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:42 am

I really don't discount the possibility of Alonso going back to Ferrari. Don't get me wrong: I still think it is much more likely they either retain Kimi or sign someone like Perez. But if Alonso can return to McLaren after all that happened there, I think it would be foolish to believe his less acrimonious departure from Ferrari would prevent him returning there. Ultimately it'll come down to whether Ferrari want to risk a potentially volatile Vettel/Alonso pairing, and perhaps even how much influence Seb himself has on the decision.

Yellowbin74 · Post by **Yellowbin74** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:31 pm

Jenson's Understeer wrote:I really don't discount the possibility of Alonso going back to Ferrari. Don't get me wrong: I still think it is much more likely they either retain Kimi or sign someone like Perez. But if Alonso can return to McLaren after all that happened there, I think it would be foolish to believe his less acrimonious departure from Ferrari would prevent him returning there. Ultimately it'll come down to whether Ferrari want to risk a potentially volatile Vettel/Alonso pairing, and perhaps even how much influence Seb himself has on the decision.

Unless the need to win has brought them to this decision?

I think that Kimi being the last Ferrari WDC has bought him some time with Ferrari and the tifosi, but I reckon even that is wearing thin now.

It would be monumental should Alonso return to replace Kimi, and I don't think there are that many people that wouldn't want to see it happen.

mds · Post by **mds** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:48 pm

Sainz has spoken out about his future in no uncertain terms: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/07/06/s ... osso-2018/

“As you all know my target number one is to be with Red Bull next year and start fighting for podiums, wins, whatever they are fighting for next year. I’m going to keep pushing for this.”

“If that doesn’t happen obviously a fourth year in Toro Rosso is unlikely and I’m not going to close the door to any opportunity.”

Gasly must be fancying his chances here.

UnlikeUday · Post by **UnlikeUday** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:59 pm

mds wrote:Sainz has spoken out about his future in no uncertain terms: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/07/06/s ... osso-2018/

“As you all know my target number one is to be with Red Bull next year and start fighting for podiums, wins, whatever they are fighting for next year. I’m going to keep pushing for this.”

“If that doesn’t happen obviously a fourth year in Toro Rosso is unlikely and I’m not going to close the door to any opportunity.”
Gasly must be fancying his chances here.

There's a very good chance he's moving to McLaren, Alonso to Ferrari & Gasly to Toro Rosso!

2018 is going to be golden with Vettel & Alonso in Ferrari & Hamilton in Mercedes all fighting for WDC (hypothetically as of now)!

Jenson's Understeer · Post by **Jenson's Understeer** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:19 pm

Yellowbin74 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:I really don't discount the possibility of Alonso going back to Ferrari. Don't get me wrong: I still think it is much more likely they either retain Kimi or sign someone like Perez. But if Alonso can return to McLaren after all that happened there, I think it would be foolish to believe his less acrimonious departure from Ferrari would prevent him returning there. Ultimately it'll come down to whether Ferrari want to risk a potentially volatile Vettel/Alonso pairing, and perhaps even how much influence Seb himself has on the decision.
Unless the need to win has brought them to this decision?

I think that Kimi being the last Ferrari WDC has bought him some time with Ferrari and the tifosi, but I reckon even that is wearing thin now.

It would be monumental should Alonso return to replace Kimi, and I don't think there are that many people that wouldn't want to see it happen.

I still think Seb is a factor in all of this. Let's say Ferrari bring Alonso back and partner him with Vettel. As much as Hamilton/Alonso was volatile in 2007, I reckon Vettel/Alonso in 2018 would almost certainly descend into chaos. And when it all implodes, they're going to lose one of the two drivers and even if that isn't Seb, it would almost certainly have a negative impact on his relationship with the team. Worst case for Ferrari is that it results in Vettel leaving, and a season or two after that Alonso retires from F1. Granted, Ferrari being Ferrari they could most likely attract another top driver, but is it worth all that potential hassle? Especially when Seb has a decent shout of winning the WDC this year.

I said it a bunch last year, and I'll say it again: Carlos Sainz is the guy Ferrari should be going after. For me, he'd be no slower than Kimi, long-term he's a better investment than Perez would be, and I don't think you'd get the fireworks Alonso/Vettel would inevitably bring. And now with Carlos saying it's doubtful he'll be at Toro Rosso next year, I'd be falling over myself to sign him.

mcdo · Post by **mcdo** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:57 pm

Jenson's Understeer wrote:I still think Seb is a factor in all of this. Let's say Ferrari bring Alonso back and partner him with Vettel. As much as Hamilton/Alonso was volatile in 2007, I reckon Vettel/Alonso in 2018 would almost certainly descend into chaos. And when it all implodes, they're going to lose one of the two drivers and even if that isn't Seb, it would almost certainly have a negative impact on his relationship with the team. Worst case for Ferrari is that it results in Vettel leaving, and a season or two after that Alonso retires from F1. Granted, Ferrari being Ferrari they could most likely attract another top driver, but is it worth all that potential hassle? Especially when Seb has a decent shout of winning the WDC this year.

One that's currently driving a blue car

Jenson's Understeer · Post by **Jenson's Understeer** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:05 pm

mcdo wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:I still think Seb is a factor in all of this. Let's say Ferrari bring Alonso back and partner him with Vettel. As much as Hamilton/Alonso was volatile in 2007, I reckon Vettel/Alonso in 2018 would almost certainly descend into chaos. And when it all implodes, they're going to lose one of the two drivers and even if that isn't Seb, it would almost certainly have a negative impact on his relationship with the team. Worst case for Ferrari is that it results in Vettel leaving, and a season or two after that Alonso retires from F1. Granted, Ferrari being Ferrari they could most likely attract another top driver, but is it worth all that potential hassle? Especially when Seb has a decent shout of winning the WDC this year.
One that's currently driving a blue car

Maybe, although given his nationality, I'm not sure Sauber's Swedish backers would be too keen to lose Marcus Ericsson...

mcdo · Post by **mcdo** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:21 pm

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:I still think Seb is a factor in all of this. Let's say Ferrari bring Alonso back and partner him with Vettel. As much as Hamilton/Alonso was volatile in 2007, I reckon Vettel/Alonso in 2018 would almost certainly descend into chaos. And when it all implodes, they're going to lose one of the two drivers and even if that isn't Seb, it would almost certainly have a negative impact on his relationship with the team. Worst case for Ferrari is that it results in Vettel leaving, and a season or two after that Alonso retires from F1. Granted, Ferrari being Ferrari they could most likely attract another top driver, but is it worth all that potential hassle? Especially when Seb has a decent shout of winning the WDC this year.
One that's currently driving a blue car
Maybe, although given his nationality, I'm not sure Sauber's Swedish backers would be too keen to lose Marcus Ericsson...

Ya know I was fully expecting that

Exediron · Post by **Exediron** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:34 pm

mcdo wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:I still think Seb is a factor in all of this. Let's say Ferrari bring Alonso back and partner him with Vettel. As much as Hamilton/Alonso was volatile in 2007, I reckon Vettel/Alonso in 2018 would almost certainly descend into chaos. And when it all implodes, they're going to lose one of the two drivers and even if that isn't Seb, it would almost certainly have a negative impact on his relationship with the team. Worst case for Ferrari is that it results in Vettel leaving, and a season or two after that Alonso retires from F1. Granted, Ferrari being Ferrari they could most likely attract another top driver, but is it worth all that potential hassle? Especially when Seb has a decent shout of winning the WDC this year.
One that's currently driving a blue car

Scott Dixon's coming to Ferrari in a shock move?

Lt. Drebin · Post by **Lt. Drebin** » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:11 pm

mcdo wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:I still think Seb is a factor in all of this. Let's say Ferrari bring Alonso back and partner him with Vettel. As much as Hamilton/Alonso was volatile in 2007, I reckon Vettel/Alonso in 2018 would almost certainly descend into chaos. And when it all implodes, they're going to lose one of the two drivers and even if that isn't Seb, it would almost certainly have a negative impact on his relationship with the team. Worst case for Ferrari is that it results in Vettel leaving, and a season or two after that Alonso retires from F1. Granted, Ferrari being Ferrari they could most likely attract another top driver, but is it worth all that potential hassle? Especially when Seb has a decent shout of winning the WDC this year.
One that's currently driving a blue car

I always had faith in Pascal, and I am glad others share my views

Actually, on a more serious note, he has proved himself, it would be a move of the decade for Ferrari to snatch him, specially with his Mercedes ties.

robins13 · Post by **robins13** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:47 am

mds wrote:Sainz has spoken out about his future in no uncertain terms: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/07/06/s ... osso-2018/

“As you all know my target number one is to be with Red Bull next year and start fighting for podiums, wins, whatever they are fighting for next year. I’m going to keep pushing for this.”

“If that doesn’t happen obviously a fourth year in Toro Rosso is unlikely and I’m not going to close the door to any opportunity.”
Gasly must be fancying his chances here.

Ouch, Horner says deal with Sainz for 2018 already signed

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:48 pm

UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:I'm having trouble placing Alonso at any of the top 3.

I think Merc would be happy with the Ham / Bot pairing and would be reluctant to risk internal strife by bringing in Alonso.

Vettel seems to be happy at Ferrari and again I doubt, if Raikkonen goes, that they'd want Alonso back and risk dramas. I think they'd be inclined to go for a Sainz or, at a stretch, a Ricciardo level of driver.

RB have Verstappen as the anointed one and I think will look to build the team around him in the future.

That to me leaves Palmers seat at Renault or Massa's seat at Williams available if he leaves Macca and I think another factory drive will be very appealing for Fred.
Alonso is definitely top 3.
Poker, what he meant from Top 3 was the top 3 teams.

Oh I didn't read that right at all, then yes I agree.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:51 pm

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
gregs51 wrote:Rumours are that it's Alonso to Merc for one season alongside Hamilton, and Alonso will be driving for free. He doesn't need the money, and to get the best driver in the world for free is a stellar deal for an organisation questioning their continued financing of an F1 team.

Also, saving them £25m goes someway to paying back Merc for the financial hit they took during spygate.
That kind of sucks for Bottas if true?
That's always been the case for drivers, though. If a better one comes along they have to make way

Not really, Red Bull turned down both Alonso and Hamilton, it's more often the case that top drivers are kept apart.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:53 pm

mikeyg123 wrote:If ever there was a good time to lose your seat it's this season. Bottas could move to Mclaren, Renault, Williams, Ferrari or Force India.

I could see Renault or Mclaren going in for him personally.

Definitely, he might have his pick with his best choice being replacing Kimi at Ferrari?

lamo · Post by **lamo** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:54 pm

Just caught the end of the sky coverage and they said the new rumour just out in the paddock is a Red Bull driver to Ferrari for 2019 - I didn't hear if it was DR or MV?

UnlikeUday · Post by **UnlikeUday** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:57 pm

lamo wrote:Just caught the end of the sky coverage and they said the new rumour just out in the paddock is a Red Bull driver to Ferrari for 2019 - I didn't hear if it was DR or MV?

This surely means Kimi will be in Ferrari for 2018.

Any driver in contention such as Perez wouldn't want to sign a 1 year deal for 2018.

lamo · Post by **lamo** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:59 pm

UnlikeUday wrote:
lamo wrote:Just caught the end of the sky coverage and they said the new rumour just out in the paddock is a Red Bull driver to Ferrari for 2019 - I didn't hear if it was DR or MV?
This surely means Kimi will be in Ferrari for 2018.

Any driver in contention such as Perez wouldn't want to sign a 1 year deal for 2018.

They said it was for 2019 and were speculating why the Red bull driver would stay in the team for 2018... wish I heard which one it was and since it was on the ipad via sky go, I couldn't rewind. Anybody else catch it?

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:01 pm

Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote: There's been contradictory noises about how tiddled Mercedes are at Alonso. Wolf has specifically mentioned the fine I believe but he's also stated before that it wouldn't matter.

Would seem a bit rich to me too. It's effectively being more tiddled about being caught than you are about the cheating.

I've read it's Ferrari though that's being mooted, Santander,Bernie and Flavio pushing hard to get him either alongside Seb or replace him if he goes to Mercedes.
Well being caught involved Alonso submitting evidence to the FIA.
Which would still mean being more annoyed at being caught than they were at the actual cheating going on in their team, which is fair enough if you don't mind a bit of cheating I guess.

But looking at Exediron's post it's way overblown anyway.
No I think they were probably more annoyed at Alonso threatening to expose the emails in exchange for an unfettered run at the WDC.
So not the actual fine at all then.

Make your mind up and if you could let Mercedes know what it is they should be mad at when you've decided that would be great.

Were was the fine mentioned in the post I replied to?

Also I never said that Mercedes condoned the cheating which I'm sure they may well have been unaware of, I do believe however that there were not happy with the conduct of certain individuals like Coghlan and Alonso plus the financial penalty that they had to suffer.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:03 pm

UnlikeUday wrote:As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.

Alonso was optimistic about 2015 as well like I said before he held all the cards.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:15 pm

mds wrote:Sainz has spoken out about his future in no uncertain terms: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/07/06/s ... osso-2018/

“As you all know my target number one is to be with Red Bull next year and start fighting for podiums, wins, whatever they are fighting for next year. I’m going to keep pushing for this.”

“If that doesn’t happen obviously a fourth year in Toro Rosso is unlikely and I’m not going to close the door to any opportunity.”
Gasly must be fancying his chances here.

Red Bull seems to be a place of unrest, latest rumour from Sky Sports F1 is that Verstappen has put in a request to leave Red Bull after 2018 to join Ferrari for 2019.

Black_Flag_11 · Post by **Black_Flag_11** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:15 pm

robins13 wrote:
mds wrote:Sainz has spoken out about his future in no uncertain terms: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/07/06/s ... osso-2018/

“As you all know my target number one is to be with Red Bull next year and start fighting for podiums, wins, whatever they are fighting for next year. I’m going to keep pushing for this.”

“If that doesn’t happen obviously a fourth year in Toro Rosso is unlikely and I’m not going to close the door to any opportunity.”
Gasly must be fancying his chances here.
Ouch, Horner says deal with Sainz for 2018 already signed

Sounds like Sainz has really annoyed the Red Bull hierarchy with his comments.

Horner:

"I don't know where he thinks he'll be then, Contracts are clear."

"Carlos Sainz is under contract. We've exercised his option so he's under contract and we have an option on him for next year and the year after. He'll be in a Toro Rosso again next year."

"Without Red Bull he wouldn't be in a Formula 1 car."

Marko:

"I think he is a little bit confused. I see it in his driving, he came off today and has done other mistakes already this season,"

"I told him that when Ferrari come we can talk. But I met Gino [Rosato] and Maurizio Arrivabene last Saturday and they didn't mention anything about going for Sainz. Maybe it is the father who is dreaming more."

"I think he should focus on driving. Kvyat has out-qualified him the last couple of races."

Lotus49 · Post by **Lotus49** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:44 pm

pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Well being caught involved Alonso submitting evidence to the FIA.
Which would still mean being more annoyed at being caught than they were at the actual cheating going on in their team, which is fair enough if you don't mind a bit of cheating I guess.

But looking at Exediron's post it's way overblown anyway.
No I think they were probably more annoyed at Alonso threatening to expose the emails in exchange for an unfettered run at the WDC.
So not the actual fine at all then.

Make your mind up and if you could let Mercedes know what it is they should be mad at when you've decided that would be great.
Were was the fine mentioned in the post I replied to?

Also I never said that Mercedes condoned the cheating which I'm sure they may well have been unaware of, I do believe however that there were not happy with the conduct of certain individuals like Coghlan and Alonso plus the financial penalty that they had to suffer.

You mentioned the fine first.."Me I personally I doubt it, one strong rumour I hear is that Mercedes have $100M reasons not to sign him".

Then you said it was because he submitted evidence, then because it was he threatened them for an unfettered run at the title.

You seem all over the place is all. And I'm sure they were fully aware when Ron first told Max and swore it had been confined to Coughlan. They also signed Lowe who's evidence was sketchy at best, if you believe his testimony then effectively Pedro De la Rosa ran the McLaren testing programme. How likely is that?.

I think Mercedes are more than comfortable with the cheating but less ok with the being caught and that fell on Alonso so it makes sense they blame him.

But it's not a good thing or admirable, they were just tiddled he blew it for them.

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:38 pm

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
gregs51 wrote:Rumours are that it's Alonso to Merc for one season alongside Hamilton, and Alonso will be driving for free. He doesn't need the money, and to get the best driver in the world for free is a stellar deal for an organisation questioning their continued financing of an F1 team.

Also, saving them £25m goes someway to paying back Merc for the financial hit they took during spygate.
That kind of sucks for Bottas if true?
That's always been the case for drivers, though. If a better one comes along they have to make way
Not really, Red Bull turned down both Alonso and Hamilton, it's more often the case that top drivers are kept apart.

what I meant by that was that a driver's position is always at risk from a better driver. That's just the way it works

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:48 pm

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
gregs51 wrote:Rumours are that it's Alonso to Merc for one season alongside Hamilton, and Alonso will be driving for free. He doesn't need the money, and to get the best driver in the world for free is a stellar deal for an organisation questioning their continued financing of an F1 team.

Also, saving them £25m goes someway to paying back Merc for the financial hit they took during spygate.
That kind of sucks for Bottas if true?
That's always been the case for drivers, though. If a better one comes along they have to make way
Not really, Red Bull turned down both Alonso and Hamilton, it's more often the case that top drivers are kept apart.
what I meant by that was that a driver's position is always at risk from a better driver. That's just the way it works

Bottas is only at risk from tier 1 drivers and like I said top teams seem to be a bit averse from pairing tier 1 drivers together.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:55 pm

Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Which would still mean being more annoyed at being caught than they were at the actual cheating going on in their team, which is fair enough if you don't mind a bit of cheating I guess.

But looking at Exediron's post it's way overblown anyway.
No I think they were probably more annoyed at Alonso threatening to expose the emails in exchange for an unfettered run at the WDC.
So not the actual fine at all then.

Make your mind up and if you could let Mercedes know what it is they should be mad at when you've decided that would be great.
Were was the fine mentioned in the post I replied to?

Also I never said that Mercedes condoned the cheating which I'm sure they may well have been unaware of, I do believe however that there were not happy with the conduct of certain individuals like Coghlan and Alonso plus the financial penalty that they had to suffer.
You mentioned the fine first.."Me I personally I doubt it, one strong rumour I hear is that Mercedes have $100M reasons not to sign him".

Then you said it was because he submitted evidence, then because it was he threatened them for an unfettered run at the title.

You seem all over the place is all. And I'm sure they were fully aware when Ron first told Max and swore it had been confined to Coughlan. They also signed Lowe who's evidence was sketchy at best, if you believe his testimony then effectively Pedro De la Rosa ran the McLaren testing programme. How likely is that?.

I think Mercedes are more than comfortable with the cheating but less ok with the being caught and that fell on Alonso so it makes sense they blame him.

But it's not a good thing or admirable, they were just tiddled he blew it for them.

I'm not saying this because of what I think I say it because of things I hear which may turn out to be not true be they based on rumours as such which say the big man at Mercedes Dieter Zetsche would not be a Alonso fan.

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:31 am

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote: That kind of sucks for Bottas if true?
That's always been the case for drivers, though. If a better one comes along they have to make way
Not really, Red Bull turned down both Alonso and Hamilton, it's more often the case that top drivers are kept apart.
what I meant by that was that a driver's position is always at risk from a better driver. That's just the way it works
Bottas is only at risk from tier 1 drivers and like I said top teams seem to be a bit averse from pairing tier 1 drivers together.

And Alonso is a tier one driver, wouldn't you say? So should the above be true then even if it may suck for Bottas it's also pretty logical and straightforward. That's the way the game is played

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:12 am

pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.
Alonso was optimistic about 2015 as well like I said before he held all the cards.

and now it's claimed Verstappen has asked to be released from his contract early so he can join Ferrari in 2018:

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/07/07/ ... o-ferrari/

the article suggests 2019 is on the cards anyway but they are hoping to do it sooner

moby · Post by **moby** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:43 am

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.
Alonso was optimistic about 2015 as well like I said before he held all the cards.
and now it's claimed Verstappen has asked to be released from his contract early so he can join Ferrari in 2018:

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/07/07/ ... o-ferrari/

the article suggests 2019 is on the cards anyway but they are hoping to do it sooner

You were quick putting that up

Could be just posturing within the team? Why give a full years notice, and committing to a team 2 years in advance when your contract lets you go anyway?

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:05 am

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote: That's always been the case for drivers, though. If a better one comes along they have to make way
Not really, Red Bull turned down both Alonso and Hamilton, it's more often the case that top drivers are kept apart.
what I meant by that was that a driver's position is always at risk from a better driver. That's just the way it works
Bottas is only at risk from tier 1 drivers and like I said top teams seem to be a bit averse from pairing tier 1 drivers together.
And Alonso is a tier one driver, wouldn't you say? So should the above be true then even if it may suck for Bottas it's also pretty logical and straightforward. That's the way the game is played

I think there are quite a few examples of that game not being played by the top teams.

pokerman · Post by **pokerman** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:11 am

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.
Alonso was optimistic about 2015 as well like I said before he held all the cards.
and now it's claimed Verstappen has asked to be released from his contract early so he can join Ferrari in 2018:

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/07/07/ ... o-ferrari/

the article suggests 2019 is on the cards anyway but they are hoping to do it sooner

That kind of makes more sense, 2019 is still a fair way away to be asking to leave for.

Option or Prime · Post by **Option or Prime** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:01 am

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.
Alonso was optimistic about 2015 as well like I said before he held all the cards.
and now it's claimed Verstappen has asked to be released from his contract early so he can join Ferrari in 2018:

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/07/07/ ... o-ferrari/

the article suggests 2019 is on the cards anyway but they are hoping to do it sooner

I know Verstappen has had a bad run but he has been all over the place in practice, he is fast but still way off the finished article in terms of temperament and consistency. SV and MV together would make LH and NR look like child's play.

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:21 am

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote: Not really, Red Bull turned down both Alonso and Hamilton, it's more often the case that top drivers are kept apart.
what I meant by that was that a driver's position is always at risk from a better driver. That's just the way it works
Bottas is only at risk from tier 1 drivers and like I said top teams seem to be a bit averse from pairing tier 1 drivers together.
And Alonso is a tier one driver, wouldn't you say? So should the above be true then even if it may suck for Bottas it's also pretty logical and straightforward. That's the way the game is played
I think there are quite a few examples of that game not being played by the top teams.

I'm sorry, I don't really understand what point you are making. You said it would suck for Bottas but I was just pointing out that drivers being replaced by better ones is a fact of F1. It's always been this way

shoot999 · Post by **shoot999** » Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:38 am

Option or Prime wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.
Alonso was optimistic about 2015 as well like I said before he held all the cards.
and now it's claimed Verstappen has asked to be released from his contract early so he can join Ferrari in 2018:

http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/07/07/ ... o-ferrari/

the article suggests 2019 is on the cards anyway but they are hoping to do it sooner
I know Verstappen has had a bad run but he has been all over the place in practice, he is fast but still way off the finished article in terms of temperament and consistency. SV and MV together would make LH and NR look like child's play.

Well according to Kravitz (yea, yea I know. Kravitz

) the rumour is it's Hamilton/Verstappen, not Vettel/Verstappen at Ferrari from 2019.