Silly season 2018

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pokerman
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Ok, I'm nailing my flag to the mast. I think Alonso to Mercedes is going to happen. I can just feel it. Seems to make sense from both sides and Merc love a challenge.
Well you being an Alonso fan would like that. :)

Me I personally I doubt it, one strong rumour I hear is that Mercedes have $100M reasons not to sign him.
Haha, I'm not an Alonso fan, but I can forgive someone for thinking otherwise because I rate him very highly. I consider him a top 6-8 of all time driver. I don't cheer for him anymore than anyone else though.
Oh right, that explains the unbiased nature of your posts. :)
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

mcdo wrote:
Pullrod wrote:In Italy many seem to think they are working(Briatore/Ecclestone) to bring back Alonso(Ferrari).
I think this is more likely than Merc. But I'm still not believing this one either!
Me neither.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

Warheart01 wrote:Alonso and Vettel in the same team would be great though.
Indeed.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:It's referring to the $100m fine McLaren got as the result of Spygate. IIRC Mercedes ended up footing most of the bill.
Ah, I see. Could be true, but wouldn't that mean their reason for not hiring him would just be petty hurt feelings, then? They've already paid the fine, if they ever did.
I don't believe they were impressed by the way he acted either.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

PRFAN wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Kev627 wrote:Alonso won't go to Ferrari but I wouldn't be surprised to see him alongside Hamilton next season! The bets will then be on for how long we have to wait before they start behaving in the same way Prost and Senna did at McLaren in 1998.
He'll go there if they take him back, which itself is doubtful. But I also never believed an Alonso-McLaren reunion was possible either
I dont think Ferrari/Alonso will happen, Ferrari will keep Kimi and Vettel for next season. Alonso has the Renault option but he seemed unusually upbeat, maybe be is playing us all, who knows. Is Sainz managed by the same team as Alonso? If so I can see a negotiation were Alonso leaves and Sainz steps in.

I am not a fan of his I must say, and I dont think he deserves anything, but it will be great for the sport to see him up front. I can see Alonso at Merc. If Ferrari keeps strong, and RedBull improves, with Force India looking good and the what ifs from Renault, assuming they become more competitive, Merc only chance to win the constructors will be having to great drivers
I think it's Alonso's way to make believe he holds all the cards.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

Llotyhy wrote:What are people's thoughts on the story in La Gazzetta dello Sport that Ricciardo has an agreement with Ferrari to go there when Vettel leaves for Mercedes?
I can't see Vettel leaving Ferrari, with Ricciardo he has a contract with Red Bull.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

paul85 wrote:If Alonso joins Mercedes next year, Ferrari, McLaren and RedBull (and maybe Renault as well) will build rocket-ships and Merc will fall down to be the 4-5th best team :(( It's just his rotten luck :(( I hope I'm wrong though. He really deserves a few more shots at the title in the (probably few) years he has left in the sport.
About the relationship with Hamilton, I don't think it would be worse than the Hamilton-Rosberg relationship. The only thing that would probably be 100x amplified will be the media coverage of their relationship. The problem is, if Merc isn't as dominant as it was in the Hamilton-Rosberg times, a crash like Spain '16 or something Spa '14-like would cost the team much more.
Although it was a fraught relationship they actually never had a coming together on the track.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:It's referring to the $100m fine McLaren got as the result of Spygate. IIRC Mercedes ended up footing most of the bill.
Ah, I see. Could be true, but wouldn't that mean their reason for not hiring him would just be petty hurt feelings, then? They've already paid the fine, if they ever did.
There's been contradictory noises about how tiddled Mercedes are at Alonso. Wolf has specifically mentioned the fine I believe but he's also stated before that it wouldn't matter.

Would seem a bit rich to me too. It's effectively being more tiddled about being caught than you are about the cheating.

I've read it's Ferrari though that's being mooted, Santander,Bernie and Flavio pushing hard to get him either alongside Seb or replace him if he goes to Mercedes.
Well being caught involved Alonso submitting evidence to the FIA.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

UnlikeUday wrote:What are the chances of Alonso retiring from F1 if he doesn't get a seat at either Mercedes or Ferrari?

Would he be happy to go to Renault? I doubt he'll look at any team below this, not even Williams.
He's not retiring, he will get a decent seat just maybe not the best seat.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:Spygate when Mercedes were part owners of McLaren and had to pay the $100M fine.

Rumours are the boss of Mercedes is not a forgiving man.
I do not believe this is true.

For starters, the $100m fine is fiction - they were allowed to deduct their lost prize money from it, which cut the fine more than in half. Then they are known to have written the fine off as a business expense incurred by the McLaren Group (in a highly controversial court decision), which I don't think they would have been allowed to do if Mercedes paid it. Furthermore, unless you happen to have one, I have never seen a reliable source that reports Mercedes as having paid the fine.

This period article, for example, quotes the actual fine paid at only about $30 million, and also quotes Ron Dennis as speaking very clearly as if he - and McLaren - were going to write the check.

Do you have any support for the claim that Mercedes paid the fine in any way, aside from indirectly as a major sponsor of McLaren?
No I just thought being part owners they were liable as well.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Lotus49 »

pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:It's referring to the $100m fine McLaren got as the result of Spygate. IIRC Mercedes ended up footing most of the bill.
Ah, I see. Could be true, but wouldn't that mean their reason for not hiring him would just be petty hurt feelings, then? They've already paid the fine, if they ever did.
There's been contradictory noises about how tiddled Mercedes are at Alonso. Wolf has specifically mentioned the fine I believe but he's also stated before that it wouldn't matter.

Would seem a bit rich to me too. It's effectively being more tiddled about being caught than you are about the cheating.

I've read it's Ferrari though that's being mooted, Santander,Bernie and Flavio pushing hard to get him either alongside Seb or replace him if he goes to Mercedes.
Well being caught involved Alonso submitting evidence to the FIA.
Which would still mean being more annoyed at being caught than they were at the actual cheating going on in their team, which is fair enough if you don't mind a bit of cheating I guess.

But looking at Exediron's post it's way overblown anyway.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:Spygate when Mercedes were part owners of McLaren and had to pay the $100M fine.

Rumours are the boss of Mercedes is not a forgiving man.
I do not believe this is true.

For starters, the $100m fine is fiction - they were allowed to deduct their lost prize money from it, which cut the fine more than in half. Then they are known to have written the fine off as a business expense incurred by the McLaren Group (in a highly controversial court decision), which I don't think they would have been allowed to do if Mercedes paid it. Furthermore, unless you happen to have one, I have never seen a reliable source that reports Mercedes as having paid the fine.

This period article, for example, quotes the actual fine paid at only about $30 million, and also quotes Ron Dennis as speaking very clearly as if he - and McLaren - were going to write the check.

Do you have any support for the claim that Mercedes paid the fine in any way, aside from indirectly as a major sponsor of McLaren?
No I just thought being part owners they were liable as well.
The $100m fine is not at all fiction, as claimed above. Deducting the prize money doesn't cut their liability in half, as if they had had a fine on top of withholding the prize money they would have effectively been charged just under $170m. This would likely have wiped them out as a team, considering the following year they declared profits of £5m (note the currency).

I don't know where this idea comes from that allowing them to deduct the prize money was somehow letting them off lightly. They still lost $100m, which would have severely impacted their budget. In 2007 McLaren had a turnover of £127m, yet still recorded a loss of £35m, largely down to the fine, which eventually turned out to be £32,313,341.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Robot »

pokerman wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Kev627 wrote:Alonso won't go to Ferrari but I wouldn't be surprised to see him alongside Hamilton next season! The bets will then be on for how long we have to wait before they start behaving in the same way Prost and Senna did at McLaren in 1998.
He'll go there if they take him back, which itself is doubtful. But I also never believed an Alonso-McLaren reunion was possible either
I dont think Ferrari/Alonso will happen, Ferrari will keep Kimi and Vettel for next season. Alonso has the Renault option but he seemed unusually upbeat, maybe be is playing us all, who knows. Is Sainz managed by the same team as Alonso? If so I can see a negotiation were Alonso leaves and Sainz steps in.

I am not a fan of his I must say, and I dont think he deserves anything, but it will be great for the sport to see him up front. I can see Alonso at Merc. If Ferrari keeps strong, and RedBull improves, with Force India looking good and the what ifs from Renault, assuming they become more competitive, Merc only chance to win the constructors will be having to great drivers
I think it's Alonso's way to make believe he holds all the cards.

I think the same, is McLaren, Renault or retirement. Ferrari or Mercedes only will happen if something extreme occurs. Is a shame that team principals don't have the balls to put two roosters in the same hen house but obviously is understandable from their point of view.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by UnlikeUday »

Robot wrote:
pokerman wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Kev627 wrote:Alonso won't go to Ferrari but I wouldn't be surprised to see him alongside Hamilton next season! The bets will then be on for how long we have to wait before they start behaving in the same way Prost and Senna did at McLaren in 1998.
He'll go there if they take him back, which itself is doubtful. But I also never believed an Alonso-McLaren reunion was possible either
I dont think Ferrari/Alonso will happen, Ferrari will keep Kimi and Vettel for next season. Alonso has the Renault option but he seemed unusually upbeat, maybe be is playing us all, who knows. Is Sainz managed by the same team as Alonso? If so I can see a negotiation were Alonso leaves and Sainz steps in.

I am not a fan of his I must say, and I dont think he deserves anything, but it will be great for the sport to see him up front. I can see Alonso at Merc. If Ferrari keeps strong, and RedBull improves, with Force India looking good and the what ifs from Renault, assuming they become more competitive, Merc only chance to win the constructors will be having to great drivers
I think it's Alonso's way to make believe he holds all the cards.

I think the same, is McLaren, Renault or retirement. Ferrari or Mercedes only will happen if something extreme occurs. Is a shame that team principals don't have the balls to put two roosters in the same hen house but obviously is understandable from their point of view.
Alonso to either Mercedes or Ferrari would be mega. Renault I'm assuming next year will be much better than this year's car but still not capable of wins.

Wish Alonso would keep Williams as an option as well.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Robot wrote:
pokerman wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
mcdo wrote:He'll go there if they take him back, which itself is doubtful. But I also never believed an Alonso-McLaren reunion was possible either
I dont think Ferrari/Alonso will happen, Ferrari will keep Kimi and Vettel for next season. Alonso has the Renault option but he seemed unusually upbeat, maybe be is playing us all, who knows. Is Sainz managed by the same team as Alonso? If so I can see a negotiation were Alonso leaves and Sainz steps in.

I am not a fan of his I must say, and I dont think he deserves anything, but it will be great for the sport to see him up front. I can see Alonso at Merc. If Ferrari keeps strong, and RedBull improves, with Force India looking good and the what ifs from Renault, assuming they become more competitive, Merc only chance to win the constructors will be having to great drivers
I think it's Alonso's way to make believe he holds all the cards.

I think the same, is McLaren, Renault or retirement. Ferrari or Mercedes only will happen if something extreme occurs. Is a shame that team principals don't have the balls to put two roosters in the same hen house but obviously is understandable from their point of view.
Alonso to either Mercedes or Ferrari would be mega. Renault I'm assuming next year will be much better than this year's car but still not capable of wins.

Wish Alonso would keep Williams as an option as well.
But why? Williams are, at best, the fifth best team in F1. They've shown little signs of being able to build a fantastic chassis and have relied more on the advantage of the Mercedes PU. If I'm Alonso and the doors are closed at Ferrari, Mercedes and (presumably) Red Bull, I look at Renault (only other factory team, one he has great history with, and one that is on the rise), staying with McLaren if they're leaving Honda, or Force India as my next best options. Only after those options are exhausted would I consider Williams. They have a great history but Alonso isn't going to be able to fight for race wins based on a team's history.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by UnlikeUday »

Alonso to either Mercedes or Ferrari would be mega. Renault I'm assuming next year will be much better than this year's car but still not capable of wins.

Wish Alonso would keep Williams as an option as well.[/quote]

But why? Williams are, at best, the fifth best team in F1. They've shown little signs of being able to build a fantastic chassis and have relied more on the advantage of the Mercedes PU. If I'm Alonso and the doors are closed at Ferrari, Mercedes and (presumably) Red Bull, I look at Renault (only other factory team, one he has great history with, and one that is on the rise), staying with McLaren if they're leaving Honda, or Force India as my next best options. Only after those options are exhausted would I consider Williams. They have a great history but Alonso isn't going to be able to fight for race wins based on a team's history.[/quote]

The only reason I mentioned Williams is because of their heritage. Otherwise Force India is a better car (& team) to be in. But no way would Alonso consider Force India in his sights (yet)!
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by gregs51 »

Rumours are that it's Alonso to Merc for one season alongside Hamilton, and Alonso will be driving for free. He doesn't need the money, and to get the best driver in the world for free is a stellar deal for an organisation questioning their continued financing of an F1 team.

Also, saving them £25m goes someway to paying back Merc for the financial hit they took during spygate.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Flash2k11 »

Can't see Mercedes willing to put themselves back in a position where there will be very real infighting in the team, and I can't see Ferrari wishing to introduce the potential of that to theirs. I'd pay some damn good money to watch either happen though.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by mikeyg123 »

[quote="Flash2k11"]Can't see Mercedes willing to put themselves back in a position where there will be very real infighting in the team, and I can't see Ferrari wishing to introduce the potential of that to theirs. I'd pay some damn good money to watch either happen though.[/quote]

If that was true then they would not of resigned Rosberg last season.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by GingerFurball »

pokerman wrote:
paul85 wrote:If Alonso joins Mercedes next year, Ferrari, McLaren and RedBull (and maybe Renault as well) will build rocket-ships and Merc will fall down to be the 4-5th best team :(( It's just his rotten luck :(( I hope I'm wrong though. He really deserves a few more shots at the title in the (probably few) years he has left in the sport.
About the relationship with Hamilton, I don't think it would be worse than the Hamilton-Rosberg relationship. The only thing that would probably be 100x amplified will be the media coverage of their relationship. The problem is, if Merc isn't as dominant as it was in the Hamilton-Rosberg times, a crash like Spain '16 or something Spa '14-like would cost the team much more.
Although it was a fraught relationship they actually never had a coming together on the track.
Because they're both good drivers with good race craft.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by wj_gibson »

I doubt Alonso to Ferrari is happening - but if it is, then I would have thought Vettel must be off to Merc? And maybe 2 years for Alonso paired withLeClerc, with the idea that LeClerc takes over as the main contender in a Ferrari from 2020? Something like that?

But I think Alonso back to Ferrari is far-fetched tbh.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Jezza13 »

I'm having trouble placing Alonso at any of the top 3.

I think Merc would be happy with the Ham / Bot pairing and would be reluctant to risk internal strife by bringing in Alonso.

Vettel seems to be happy at Ferrari and again I doubt, if Raikkonen goes, that they'd want Alonso back and risk dramas. I think they'd be inclined to go for a Sainz or, at a stretch, a Ricciardo level of driver.

RB have Verstappen as the anointed one and I think will look to build the team around him in the future.

That to me leaves Palmers seat at Renault or Massa's seat at Williams available if he leaves Macca and I think another factory drive will be very appealing for Fred.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Jezza13 wrote: That to me leaves Palmers seat at Renault or Massa's seat at Williams available if he leaves Macca and I think another factory drive will be very appealing for Fred.
I think Massa will be at Williams again next year, he is performing well and from his comments on the subject I think he wants to stay.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Verstappen33 »

Alonso and Ferrari, it would be great to see again.

It will be a very interesting "silly season" with some surprises I am sure.

Ricciardo leaving Red Bull?
Vettel leaving Ferrari?
Kimi leaving F1?
Hamilton retirement?
Alonso joining one of the top teams?

It will all be interesting.

Yes, I agree Red Bull wants to build the team arround Max the coming years if Ricciardo leaves. Marko has made that very clear already. The problem with Red Bull, for Max, is if they are capable of building a winning car and with what engine?

Mercedes and Ferrari are not dependable on other manufacturers for their engine. We all saw that the top teams don't want to give Red Bull an engine because it's their competition.

Maybe Eddie Jordan is right and Mercedes will leave F1 and continue with making engines for the other teams.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by UnlikeUday »

Verstappen33 wrote:Alonso and Ferrari, it would be great to see again.

It will be a very interesting "silly season" with some surprises I am sure.

Ricciardo leaving Red Bull?
Vettel leaving Ferrari?
Kimi leaving F1?
Hamilton retirement?
Alonso joining one of the top teams?

It will all be interesting.

Yes, I agree Red Bull wants to build the team arround Max the coming years if Ricciardo leaves. Marko has made that very clear already. The problem with Red Bull, for Max, is if they are capable of building a winning car and with what engine?

Mercedes and Ferrari are not dependable on other manufacturers for their engine. We all saw that the top teams don't want to give Red Bull an engine because it's their competition.

Maybe Eddie Jordan is right and Mercedes will leave F1 and continue with making engines for the other teams.
Hamilton ain't retiring from F1. On the contrary, he's looking for a contrary extension with Mercedes.

The silly season leading to 2018 should be 1 of the most anticipated silly seasons for a long time. Also willing to know who from a midfield will get a shot with a top team. (Sainz, Perez, Grosjean).
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Bentrovato »

Ferrari should snag Perez to partner Vettel. Alonso had his time there and departed thinking they could not turn into a winner. It makes zero sense to bring him back to partner a 4 time world champion. If not Perez, then why not Giovinazzi? An Italian in the Italian seat. Too many options for Ferrari.

Even if by some stroke of magic, Hamilton is out at Merc in exchange for Vettel we would see Hamilton go to Ferrari, not Alonso. Alonso is done for, no more titles. He took a very big gamble on McLaren and he lost the farm.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Verstappen33 »

Hamilton going to Ferrari, I think he woukd like that option yes. But only when Vettel would leave, otherwise Ferrari would have no interest I think.

Bernie likes to see Alonso going to Ferrari again. I don't know about his influence these day's but maybe there is already something going on.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:It's referring to the $100m fine McLaren got as the result of Spygate. IIRC Mercedes ended up footing most of the bill.
Ah, I see. Could be true, but wouldn't that mean their reason for not hiring him would just be petty hurt feelings, then? They've already paid the fine, if they ever did.
There's been contradictory noises about how tiddled Mercedes are at Alonso. Wolf has specifically mentioned the fine I believe but he's also stated before that it wouldn't matter.

Would seem a bit rich to me too. It's effectively being more tiddled about being caught than you are about the cheating.

I've read it's Ferrari though that's being mooted, Santander,Bernie and Flavio pushing hard to get him either alongside Seb or replace him if he goes to Mercedes.
Well being caught involved Alonso submitting evidence to the FIA.
Which would still mean being more annoyed at being caught than they were at the actual cheating going on in their team, which is fair enough if you don't mind a bit of cheating I guess.

But looking at Exediron's post it's way overblown anyway.
No I think they were probably more annoyed at Alonso threatening to expose the emails in exchange for an unfettered run at the WDC.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:Spygate when Mercedes were part owners of McLaren and had to pay the $100M fine.

Rumours are the boss of Mercedes is not a forgiving man.
I do not believe this is true.

For starters, the $100m fine is fiction - they were allowed to deduct their lost prize money from it, which cut the fine more than in half. Then they are known to have written the fine off as a business expense incurred by the McLaren Group (in a highly controversial court decision), which I don't think they would have been allowed to do if Mercedes paid it. Furthermore, unless you happen to have one, I have never seen a reliable source that reports Mercedes as having paid the fine.

This period article, for example, quotes the actual fine paid at only about $30 million, and also quotes Ron Dennis as speaking very clearly as if he - and McLaren - were going to write the check.

Do you have any support for the claim that Mercedes paid the fine in any way, aside from indirectly as a major sponsor of McLaren?
No I just thought being part owners they were liable as well.
The $100m fine is not at all fiction, as claimed above. Deducting the prize money doesn't cut their liability in half, as if they had had a fine on top of withholding the prize money they would have effectively been charged just under $170m. This would likely have wiped them out as a team, considering the following year they declared profits of £5m (note the currency).

I don't know where this idea comes from that allowing them to deduct the prize money was somehow letting them off lightly. They still lost $100m, which would have severely impacted their budget. In 2007 McLaren had a turnover of £127m, yet still recorded a loss of £35m, largely down to the fine, which eventually turned out to be £32,313,341.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103312
Fair enough, so in other words it was a big hit for both McLaren and Mercedes?
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

gregs51 wrote:Rumours are that it's Alonso to Merc for one season alongside Hamilton, and Alonso will be driving for free. He doesn't need the money, and to get the best driver in the world for free is a stellar deal for an organisation questioning their continued financing of an F1 team.

Also, saving them £25m goes someway to paying back Merc for the financial hit they took during spygate.
That kind of sucks for Bottas if true?
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:Can't see Mercedes willing to put themselves back in a position where there will be very real infighting in the team, and I can't see Ferrari wishing to introduce the potential of that to theirs. I'd pay some damn good money to watch either happen though.
If that was true then they would not of resigned Rosberg last season.
Actually initially they only offered Rosberg a 1 year contract then came the quit threat from Hamilton and they thought we better hang on to Rosberg.
Last edited by pokerman on Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

GingerFurball wrote:
pokerman wrote:
paul85 wrote:If Alonso joins Mercedes next year, Ferrari, McLaren and RedBull (and maybe Renault as well) will build rocket-ships and Merc will fall down to be the 4-5th best team :(( It's just his rotten luck :(( I hope I'm wrong though. He really deserves a few more shots at the title in the (probably few) years he has left in the sport.
About the relationship with Hamilton, I don't think it would be worse than the Hamilton-Rosberg relationship. The only thing that would probably be 100x amplified will be the media coverage of their relationship. The problem is, if Merc isn't as dominant as it was in the Hamilton-Rosberg times, a crash like Spain '16 or something Spa '14-like would cost the team much more.
Although it was a fraught relationship they actually never had a coming together on the track.
Because they're both good drivers with good race craft.
I'm not sure they were good friends at the time but yes both are hard but fair on the track.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by pokerman »

Jezza13 wrote:I'm having trouble placing Alonso at any of the top 3.

I think Merc would be happy with the Ham / Bot pairing and would be reluctant to risk internal strife by bringing in Alonso.

Vettel seems to be happy at Ferrari and again I doubt, if Raikkonen goes, that they'd want Alonso back and risk dramas. I think they'd be inclined to go for a Sainz or, at a stretch, a Ricciardo level of driver.

RB have Verstappen as the anointed one and I think will look to build the team around him in the future.

That to me leaves Palmers seat at Renault or Massa's seat at Williams available if he leaves Macca and I think another factory drive will be very appealing for Fred.
Alonso is definitely top 3.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by UnlikeUday »

pokerman wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:I'm having trouble placing Alonso at any of the top 3.

I think Merc would be happy with the Ham / Bot pairing and would be reluctant to risk internal strife by bringing in Alonso.

Vettel seems to be happy at Ferrari and again I doubt, if Raikkonen goes, that they'd want Alonso back and risk dramas. I think they'd be inclined to go for a Sainz or, at a stretch, a Ricciardo level of driver.

RB have Verstappen as the anointed one and I think will look to build the team around him in the future.

That to me leaves Palmers seat at Renault or Massa's seat at Williams available if he leaves Macca and I think another factory drive will be very appealing for Fred.
Alonso is definitely top 3.
Poker, what he meant from Top 3 was the top 3 teams.
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:Spygate when Mercedes were part owners of McLaren and had to pay the $100M fine.

Rumours are the boss of Mercedes is not a forgiving man.
I do not believe this is true.

For starters, the $100m fine is fiction - they were allowed to deduct their lost prize money from it, which cut the fine more than in half. Then they are known to have written the fine off as a business expense incurred by the McLaren Group (in a highly controversial court decision), which I don't think they would have been allowed to do if Mercedes paid it. Furthermore, unless you happen to have one, I have never seen a reliable source that reports Mercedes as having paid the fine.

This period article, for example, quotes the actual fine paid at only about $30 million, and also quotes Ron Dennis as speaking very clearly as if he - and McLaren - were going to write the check.

Do you have any support for the claim that Mercedes paid the fine in any way, aside from indirectly as a major sponsor of McLaren?
No I just thought being part owners they were liable as well.
The $100m fine is not at all fiction, as claimed above. Deducting the prize money doesn't cut their liability in half, as if they had had a fine on top of withholding the prize money they would have effectively been charged just under $170m. This would likely have wiped them out as a team, considering the following year they declared profits of £5m (note the currency).

I don't know where this idea comes from that allowing them to deduct the prize money was somehow letting them off lightly. They still lost $100m, which would have severely impacted their budget. In 2007 McLaren had a turnover of £127m, yet still recorded a loss of £35m, largely down to the fine, which eventually turned out to be £32,313,341.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/103312
Fair enough, so in other words it was a big hit for both McLaren and Mercedes?
I guess. Any shareholder would have been impacted

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
gregs51 wrote:Rumours are that it's Alonso to Merc for one season alongside Hamilton, and Alonso will be driving for free. He doesn't need the money, and to get the best driver in the world for free is a stellar deal for an organisation questioning their continued financing of an F1 team.

Also, saving them £25m goes someway to paying back Merc for the financial hit they took during spygate.
That kind of sucks for Bottas if true?
That's always been the case for drivers, though. If a better one comes along they have to make way

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by mikeyg123 »

If ever there was a good time to lose your seat it's this season. Bottas could move to Mclaren, Renault, Williams, Ferrari or Force India.

I could see Renault or Mclaren going in for him personally.

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by IDrinkYourMilkshake »

gregs51 wrote:Rumours are that it's Alonso to Merc for one season alongside Hamilton, and Alonso will be driving for free. He doesn't need the money, and to get the best driver in the world for free is a stellar deal for an organisation questioning their continued financing of an F1 team.

Also, saving them £25m goes someway to paying back Merc for the financial hit they took during spygate.
Where are these rumours? Source?

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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by Lotus49 »

pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Exediron wrote: Ah, I see. Could be true, but wouldn't that mean their reason for not hiring him would just be petty hurt feelings, then? They've already paid the fine, if they ever did.
There's been contradictory noises about how tiddled Mercedes are at Alonso. Wolf has specifically mentioned the fine I believe but he's also stated before that it wouldn't matter.

Would seem a bit rich to me too. It's effectively being more tiddled about being caught than you are about the cheating.

I've read it's Ferrari though that's being mooted, Santander,Bernie and Flavio pushing hard to get him either alongside Seb or replace him if he goes to Mercedes.
Well being caught involved Alonso submitting evidence to the FIA.
Which would still mean being more annoyed at being caught than they were at the actual cheating going on in their team, which is fair enough if you don't mind a bit of cheating I guess.

But looking at Exediron's post it's way overblown anyway.
No I think they were probably more annoyed at Alonso threatening to expose the emails in exchange for an unfettered run at the WDC.
So not the actual fine at all then.

Make your mind up and if you could let Mercedes know what it is they should be mad at when you've decided that would be great. ;)
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Re: Silly season 2018

Post by UnlikeUday »

As per the Spanish website Diario Gol, Ferrari have initiated talks with Alonso to replace Kimi in 2018 & wish to bridge the gap that was set between Alonso & them in the past:
http://www.diariogol.com/es/notices/201 ... -76754.php

All the smoke surely is coming from some fire. Alonso being so optimistic about 2018 just can't be that he's dreaming. Something real positive must've happened behind closed doors.
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