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mcdo wrote: Consistency is his biggest area of concern. When everything is working for him he's flying it. When something's not right then he seems to fall into this chain reaction of everything going wrong and his race falling away

Agree with that, maybe delusional was a little bit harsh

He's had a few races this year where I've thought to myself "OK, maybe he IS a decent driver after all", but he's had so many races where he seems to be MILES of the pace.

I genuinely want to see him do well though, I would love for him to be able to improve to be at least a "good" driver even if he'll never be a "great", just so he can shut up all the critics (myself included).....

I'm just worried that I'm delusional by hoping this happens for Lance!

Soooo, six months on from the last time this thread was replied to and things are not looking great are they?

Admittedly, Williams have a truly awful car this year (and it pains me to say that). So not sure whether a true evaluation on Lance can be given until the car improves, if it ever does!

Lance does seem to do reasonably well off the starting grid every so often, making up a few places. But then it nearly always seems to go wrong some way or another.

Given that Williams is utterly lost with their car and setups every single weekend, Stroll has done a damn fine job with what he has to work with.
On top of that his attitude is superb, expressing disappointment without calling out his team in a bad way. I find he genuinely feels disappointment as a whole WITH his team,
and I have never seen him say anything in a way where he seems to feel greater than or more important than the team.

I think hes a very solid driver but is still developing and can blossom into an even better driver over the course of this very difficult season. Hopefully next year the Williams will be
a much improved car and he gets the opportunity to shine. He's a good guy and I like to cheer for the good ones.

The good thing about Stroll is that his starts are often very good. Often making up for a poor qualifying. In Bahrain, Started last and I think he gained the most places out of any driver on the first lap. Was just 3 though. In China, he climbed from 18th to 12th in one lap. That is impressive for how dreadful that Williams was. Baku was clearly a bit lucky, but he gained 2 on the first lap. In Spain, he started 19th and was in 12th by the end of the last lap. The incident may have affected 3 and helped him overtake some others. But he nearly lost it himself but kept it together and got past 1 or 2 others too. And then even before Stroll's incident in Canada, he instantly got past Vandoorne and Alonso. then on the following corner, hartley too. Hartly IMO was a bit optomisting in trying to squeeze in the gap he did. this basically forced Stroll to try and allow soem room, which seemed to result in him loosing it. I think they were both to blame for that really, but just a racing incident.

I don't think many can disagree here. Stroll's starts are generally pretty good. And sometimes excellent. He overall is not a good driver, but there are some good points. He just needs to develop.

Stroll is actually a very good racer. He just has no one lap speed and no raw pace to speak of. Troublesome for an F1 level driver.

Check out the williams in car video, the drivers are in a constant fight to keep the car on the race track.Evan on the straights the drivers are having to work. kubica was right when he said the car was embarrassing. Can`t believe with all the technology and engineers they have they don`t seem to have a clue.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:The good thing about Stroll is that his starts are often very good. Often making up for a poor qualifying. In Bahrain, Started last and I think he gained the most places out of any driver on the first lap. Was just 3 though. In China, he climbed from 18th to 12th in one lap. That is impressive for how dreadful that Williams was. Baku was clearly a bit lucky, but he gained 2 on the first lap. In Spain, he started 19th and was in 12th by the end of the last lap. The incident may have affected 3 and helped him overtake some others. But he nearly lost it himself but kept it together and got past 1 or 2 others too. And then even before Stroll's incident in Canada, he instantly got past Vandoorne and Alonso. then on the following corner, hartley too. Hartly IMO was a bit optomisting in trying to squeeze in the gap he did. this basically forced Stroll to try and allow soem room, which seemed to result in him loosing it. I think they were both to blame for that really, but just a racing incident.

I don't think many can disagree here. Stroll's starts are generally pretty good. And sometimes excellent. He overall is not a good driver, but there are some good points. He just needs to develop.

Well his good start this time involved clipping 2 cars it seems, then Stroll lost control of his car and wiped out both himself and Hartley, maybe Stroll already had a rear puncture?

Difficult to judge Stroll against a rookie team mate. They could both be great, average or terrible.

pokerman wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:The good thing about Stroll is that his starts are often very good. Often making up for a poor qualifying. In Bahrain, Started last and I think he gained the most places out of any driver on the first lap. Was just 3 though. In China, he climbed from 18th to 12th in one lap. That is impressive for how dreadful that Williams was. Baku was clearly a bit lucky, but he gained 2 on the first lap. In Spain, he started 19th and was in 12th by the end of the last lap. The incident may have affected 3 and helped him overtake some others. But he nearly lost it himself but kept it together and got past 1 or 2 others too. And then even before Stroll's incident in Canada, he instantly got past Vandoorne and Alonso. then on the following corner, hartley too. Hartly IMO was a bit optomisting in trying to squeeze in the gap he did. this basically forced Stroll to try and allow soem room, which seemed to result in him loosing it. I think they were both to blame for that really, but just a racing incident.

I don't think many can disagree here. Stroll's starts are generally pretty good. And sometimes excellent. He overall is not a good driver, but there are some good points. He just needs to develop.

Well his good start this time involved clipping 2 cars it seems, then Stroll lost control of his car and wiped out both himself and Hartley, maybe Stroll already had a rear puncture?

I did think that it could have been that that caused a puncture. So maybe not the best this time. But I still have to say Stroll generally seems decent at making places up on the first lap.

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

pokerman wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:The good thing about Stroll is that his starts are often very good. Often making up for a poor qualifying. In Bahrain, Started last and I think he gained the most places out of any driver on the first lap. Was just 3 though. In China, he climbed from 18th to 12th in one lap. That is impressive for how dreadful that Williams was. Baku was clearly a bit lucky, but he gained 2 on the first lap. In Spain, he started 19th and was in 12th by the end of the last lap. The incident may have affected 3 and helped him overtake some others. But he nearly lost it himself but kept it together and got past 1 or 2 others too. And then even before Stroll's incident in Canada, he instantly got past Vandoorne and Alonso. then on the following corner, hartley too. Hartly IMO was a bit optomisting in trying to squeeze in the gap he did. this basically forced Stroll to try and allow soem room, which seemed to result in him loosing it. I think they were both to blame for that really, but just a racing incident.

I don't think many can disagree here. Stroll's starts are generally pretty good. And sometimes excellent. He overall is not a good driver, but there are some good points. He just needs to develop.

Well his good start this time involved clipping 2 cars it seems, then Stroll lost control of his car and wiped out both himself and Hartley, maybe Stroll already had a rear puncture?

I did think that it could have been that that caused a puncture. So maybe not the best this time. But I still have to say Stroll generally seems decent at making places up on the first lap.

Judging by his onboard in Canada he does chance his arm a bit but maybe that was because it was his home race?

pokerman wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

pokerman wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:The good thing about Stroll is that his starts are often very good. Often making up for a poor qualifying. In Bahrain, Started last and I think he gained the most places out of any driver on the first lap. Was just 3 though. In China, he climbed from 18th to 12th in one lap. That is impressive for how dreadful that Williams was. Baku was clearly a bit lucky, but he gained 2 on the first lap. In Spain, he started 19th and was in 12th by the end of the last lap. The incident may have affected 3 and helped him overtake some others. But he nearly lost it himself but kept it together and got past 1 or 2 others too. And then even before Stroll's incident in Canada, he instantly got past Vandoorne and Alonso. then on the following corner, hartley too. Hartly IMO was a bit optomisting in trying to squeeze in the gap he did. this basically forced Stroll to try and allow soem room, which seemed to result in him loosing it. I think they were both to blame for that really, but just a racing incident.

I don't think many can disagree here. Stroll's starts are generally pretty good. And sometimes excellent. He overall is not a good driver, but there are some good points. He just needs to develop.

Well his good start this time involved clipping 2 cars it seems, then Stroll lost control of his car and wiped out both himself and Hartley, maybe Stroll already had a rear puncture?

I did think that it could have been that that caused a puncture. So maybe not the best this time. But I still have to say Stroll generally seems decent at making places up on the first lap.

Judging by his onboard in Canada he does chance his arm a bit but maybe that was because it was his home race?

If you're Stroll then you may as well go banzai at the start. You're not going to score points unless you make something happen at the start anyway.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:

pokerman wrote:

TheGiantHogweed wrote:The good thing about Stroll is that his starts are often very good. Often making up for a poor qualifying. In Bahrain, Started last and I think he gained the most places out of any driver on the first lap. Was just 3 though. In China, he climbed from 18th to 12th in one lap. That is impressive for how dreadful that Williams was. Baku was clearly a bit lucky, but he gained 2 on the first lap. In Spain, he started 19th and was in 12th by the end of the last lap. The incident may have affected 3 and helped him overtake some others. But he nearly lost it himself but kept it together and got past 1 or 2 others too. And then even before Stroll's incident in Canada, he instantly got past Vandoorne and Alonso. then on the following corner, hartley too. Hartly IMO was a bit optomisting in trying to squeeze in the gap he did. this basically forced Stroll to try and allow soem room, which seemed to result in him loosing it. I think they were both to blame for that really, but just a racing incident.

I don't think many can disagree here. Stroll's starts are generally pretty good. And sometimes excellent. He overall is not a good driver, but there are some good points. He just needs to develop.

Well his good start this time involved clipping 2 cars it seems, then Stroll lost control of his car and wiped out both himself and Hartley, maybe Stroll already had a rear puncture?

I did think that it could have been that that caused a puncture. So maybe not the best this time. But I still have to say Stroll generally seems decent at making places up on the first lap.

Judging by his onboard in Canada he does chance his arm a bit but maybe that was because it was his home race?

If you're Stroll then you may as well go banzai at the start. You're not going to score points unless you make something happen at the start anyway.

Well it was an observation rather than a criticism.

IMO it's hard to judge Lance Stroll at this point in time... Both drivers are driving a bad car and Lance Stroll's team mate equally delivering the same performance..

No-one on this forum would ever knock Alonso when McLaren were extremely poor.. Granted, Alonso has got 2 WC to his name....

Personally, we've seen some great drives by Lance Stroll, so I would hate to lose this driver. I know Williams like him.

It’s easy to forget that Stroll is still very young. He’s only 19.

Rosberg was 20 when he made his debut, and his improvement from 2006 to 2009 with Williams was staggering. He went from one of the worst drivers on the grid to one of the best.

There’s still some hope for Stroll. He could be the next Rosberg.

Probably not though.

KingVoid wrote:It’s easy to forget that Stroll is still very young. He’s only 19.

Rosberg was 20 when he made his debut, and his improvement from 2006 to 2009 with Williams was staggering. He went from one of the worst drivers on the grid to one of the best.

There’s still some hope for Stroll. He could be the next Rosberg.

Probably not though.

I wouldn't have called Rosberg one of the worst drivers on the grid at any point of his F1 career.
He has the fastest lap from his debut race, back when fastest laps still meant something...

I agree that worst is an overexaggeration. Nico always had great speed. What I meant to say is that Rosberg was a very crash-happy driver back in 2006. He was able to iron out those mistakes eventually and become a very well rounded driver.

Stroll is still very young. He can become a good driver once he stops making mistakes, but I'm not sure if he has incredible speed in his locker.

Fair enough.

I'm pleased to see people being sensible in their evaluations here.

Being a Williams fan, I follow them on Facebook and it's so sad reading so many replies to every single post that the team makes saying something like "your drivers are rubbish, put Kubica in the car".

I would have loved to see Robert driving again, but he isn't the answer. He's not going to suddenly be scoring points in every race with that car.

I know Stroll and Sirotkin are pay drivers. I know Williams would much prefer to be in the position to be able to pay for a Ricciardo or an Alonso, but they're not and if these two pay drivers' financial contributions keep the team afloat until their fortunes change then I am happy to live through the pain.

I still hope Lance turns out to be a decent driver, hopefully later this year or next year he gets a better car and can show us all he's not as below average as we may think he is sometimes.

Noni wrote:IMO it's hard to judge Lance Stroll at this point in time... Both drivers are driving a bad car and Lance Stroll's team mate equally delivering the same performance..

No-one on this forum would ever knock Alonso when McLaren were extremely poor.. Granted, Alonso has got 2 WC to his name....

Personally, we've seen some great drives by Lance Stroll, so I would hate to lose this driver. I know Williams like him.

I think they like the $$$'s.

I find it hard to pass judgement with the car the way it is. I remember Kubika's recent post test interview and his comments about the car being just terrible. Stroll certainly seems to be struggling, and it's certainly not all the car, but the thing seems like a disaster so I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.

This is one of the things that I find confounding about F1. There are such incredibly vast gaps between the "top" and the "back marker" teams. I know that we love innovation in F1, but why on earth would a back marker team even bother to spend all their money? Seems like a forgone conclusion that they don't stand a chance and aside from naive hope and ego, what's the point?

jimmyj wrote:I find it hard to pass judgement with the car the way it is. I remember Kubika's recent post test interview and his comments about the car being just terrible. Stroll certainly seems to be struggling, and it's certainly not all the car, but the thing seems like a disaster so I prefer to give him the benefit of the doubt.

This is one of the things that I find confounding about F1. There are such incredibly vast gaps between the "top" and the "back marker" teams. I know that we love innovation in F1, but why on earth would a back marker team even bother to spend all their money? Seems like a forgone conclusion that they don't stand a chance and aside from naive hope and ego, what's the point?

Is it their money that they are spending?

Williams has been in F1 for a long time. They are not just in it for a paycheck. There's pride involved.When they were at the top they had strong sponsors. What drives F1 is money. Good example is sauber, more money, better car. Williams made the big gamble and hired paddy lowe hoping that his experience from merc and mclaren would help them move forward. So far it's had the opposite effect.

The biggest problem facing F1 (just my view) is the disparity in teams budgets. If it was just 10 20 or even 30 million it might not be a problem but when it becomes 100 or 150 million then it is a problem. The series is at a crossroad where they are going to have to decide if money is going to decide the winners or if the teams will agree to a more fair distribution of money to help the bottom teams. Williams is stuck in no mans land with no tie in like haas or sauber to a big teams expertise in suspension, shock or gearbox tech. They are trying to do it the old fashion way relying on people more than technology. So far they have been losing ground every year and coming out with a new design has not worked out for them. Big teams can take gambles on personal and if it doesn't work out the impact is minimal but for williams the gamble with lowe is huge. Bad car no sponsors.

spiritone wrote:Williams has been in F1 for a long time. They are not just in it for a paycheck. There's pride involved.When they were at the top they had strong sponsors. What drives F1 is money. Good example is sauber, more money, better car. Williams made the big gamble and hired paddy lowe hoping that his experience from merc and mclaren would help them move forward. So far it's had the opposite effect.

The biggest problem facing F1 (just my view) is the disparity in teams budgets. If it was just 10 20 or even 30 million it might not be a problem but when it becomes 100 or 150 million then it is a problem. The series is at a crossroad where they are going to have to decide if money is going to decide the winners or if the teams will agree to a more fair distribution of money to help the bottom teams. Williams is stuck in no mans land with no tie in like haas or sauber to a big teams expertise in suspension, shock or gearbox tech. They are trying to do it the old fashion way relying on people more than technology. So far they have been losing ground every year and coming out with a new design has not worked out for them. Big teams can take gambles on personal and if it doesn't work out the impact is minimal but for williams the gamble with lowe is huge. Bad car no sponsors.

Budget actually defines the pecking order. If you can't pay to play, you might not as well not play. Williams's best hopes right now are to score points regularly, they know they cannot have any championship aspirations, no matter how much Papa Stroll is willing to help. In the case of Mclaren, it's reported they don't have anywhere near the budget of the 3 big teams but they somehow thought they could compete with them. Not gonna happen.
I was listening to an old Missed Apex podcast, describing how Redbull would bring various front wing specifications to one weekend, trial them and discard them as if they weren't worth anything. A team like Williams, or even Mclaren cannot afford to do such things, and that sets them back performance wise.

spiritone wrote:Williams has been in F1 for a long time. They are not just in it for a paycheck. There's pride involved.When they were at the top they had strong sponsors. What drives F1 is money. Good example is sauber, more money, better car. Williams made the big gamble and hired paddy lowe hoping that his experience from merc and mclaren would help them move forward. So far it's had the opposite effect.

The biggest problem facing F1 (just my view) is the disparity in teams budgets. If it was just 10 20 or even 30 million it might not be a problem but when it becomes 100 or 150 million then it is a problem. The series is at a crossroad where they are going to have to decide if money is going to decide the winners or if the teams will agree to a more fair distribution of money to help the bottom teams. Williams is stuck in no mans land with no tie in like haas or sauber to a big teams expertise in suspension, shock or gearbox tech. They are trying to do it the old fashion way relying on people more than technology. So far they have been losing ground every year and coming out with a new design has not worked out for them. Big teams can take gambles on personal and if it doesn't work out the impact is minimal but for williams the gamble with lowe is huge. Bad car no sponsors.

All that doesn't explain the likes of Force India being better than them and I've also heard that the way Williams operate is archaic, they operate like they are still a big team for instance they build their own gearbox which is more expensive then again what Force India do who buy in the Mercedes gearbox.