Worst driver career decisions

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pokerman
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by pokerman »

davidheath461 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:Alonso to McLaren, both times actually.

And also, Alonso rejecting a Red Bull offer in 2008 to return back to Renault, however that was a logical move since Red Bull were just a midfield team at the time and Renault was an official works team that won the WDC two years ago
Alonso also rejected Honda in 2008. I agree that these decisions are more forgivable since no one would've predicted the pecking order after the 2009 regulation changes. Alonso could just have easily ended up without a drive in 2009 had he gone to Honda.
I don't think that Honda would have pulled out if they had signed Alonso, but then again the car might not have been quite as good as the Mercedes engine was apparently a step up on the Honda engine.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

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pokerman wrote:I don't think that Honda would have pulled out if they had signed Alonso, but then again the car might not have been quite as good as the Mercedes engine was apparently a step up on the Honda engine.
But they would've had the budget to sustain development throughout the year and not fall back...
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by GingerFurball »

Ferrari signing Raikkonen over Alonso for 2007.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

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Kobayashi to Caterham in 2014
Left a promising position in the Ferrari WEC team to race around at the tail end of the field, whilst playing musical chairs with other drivers, only for the team to disband at the end of the season leaving him without a drive.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by Covalent »

GingerFurball wrote:Ferrari signing Raikkonen over Alonso for 2007.
Yes quite possibly Kimi could have won the title in both 2007 and 2008 had he stayed at McLaren, but I wouldn't call it the worst driver career decision.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by MistaVega23 »

Covalent wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:Ferrari signing Raikkonen over Alonso for 2007.
Yes quite possibly Kimi could have won the title in both 2007 and 2008 had he stayed at McLaren, but I wouldn't call it the worst driver career decision.
Didn't McLaren announce that Alonso was to join them in 2007 as early as late 2005/early 2006? Schumacher was still at Ferrari at that stage and from what I remember the decision to sign Raikkonen wasn't made until the summer of 2006. Alonso wouldn't have been available anyway.
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MistaVega23
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by MistaVega23 »

pokerman wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:Hill to Arrows. Today that'll be like Hamilton winning the title, then moving to Sauber when Red Bull had offered him a drive.

Fisichella to Ferrari 2009 - after pole and a podium in Spa in the Force India, Fisi did only slightly better than the embarrassing Badoer. Although he stayed with Ferrari after that, his career could have gone on for at least a couple more seasons with the improving Force India.

I have to also mention Montoya at McLaren. I remember thinking at the time 'this doesn't fit' - it was the wrong move from day one.
Hill didn't have much choice because he had been sacked by Williams and Arrows were the ones offering him the most money.
He could have joined Benetton or Jordan though?

Another poor decision by Hill was not taking the Mclaren offer in 1998. I know it was only a pay as you go offer, but he would have had the best car...
I think his main goal was to cash in on his title, you have to remember he wasn't that young, he was not far off 40, so he needed to secure his financial future.
That's a good point, actually. I wished he had taken the McLaren drive but given how he hated the grooved tyre era, he would have been comprehensively smashed by Hakkinen and be held in even less regard than some detractors put him in currently.

Hill probably knew deep down that he only had a couple of seasons left in him, so you can't blame him for going for the money despite Tom's false promises about the facilities and Yamaha engine.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by theferret »

mikeyg123 wrote:Timo Glock joining Virgin instead of Renault in 2010.

Mika Salo electing to drop out of F1 to join Toyota and test there new F1 car only to be dumped after one season.
I think this is very much overlooked. Glock was a solid driver, and though unlikely to have performed to the high standard Kubica did that season, he may very well have helped the team beat Mercedes in the championship. Petrov was abysmal that year.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by mikeyg123 »

MistaVega23 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:Hill to Arrows. Today that'll be like Hamilton winning the title, then moving to Sauber when Red Bull had offered him a drive.

Fisichella to Ferrari 2009 - after pole and a podium in Spa in the Force India, Fisi did only slightly better than the embarrassing Badoer. Although he stayed with Ferrari after that, his career could have gone on for at least a couple more seasons with the improving Force India.

I have to also mention Montoya at McLaren. I remember thinking at the time 'this doesn't fit' - it was the wrong move from day one.
Hill didn't have much choice because he had been sacked by Williams and Arrows were the ones offering him the most money.
He could have joined Benetton or Jordan though?

Another poor decision by Hill was not taking the Mclaren offer in 1998. I know it was only a pay as you go offer, but he would have had the best car...
I think his main goal was to cash in on his title, you have to remember he wasn't that young, he was not far off 40, so he needed to secure his financial future.
That's a good point, actually. I wished he had taken the McLaren drive but given how he hated the grooved tyre era, he would have been comprehensively smashed by Hakkinen and be held in even less regard than some detractors put him in currently.

Hill probably knew deep down that he only had a couple of seasons left in him, so you can't blame him for going for the money despite Tom's false promises about the facilities and Yamaha engine.
There is a lot of misconception about this. Hill didn't go after the money in signing for Arrows he went after the one year contract that nobody else would offer. He had better financial offers in 97 but wanted the one year deal so he could drive for Mclaren in 98.

When it came time to speak to Mclaren about 98 Hill found his reception pretty luke warm. He has said that it was obvious Mclaren's interest in him wasn't genuine and he was just being used as a negotiating chip with both Hakkinen and Coulthard's contracts up for renewal. He believes Ron Dennis made him an offer that he new he was never going to take. It wasn't pay as you go but ay as you win. Nothing for any other position. And that Mclaren in 97 retired from winning positions in four or so races in 97. Hill felt it wasn't a serious offer.

He signed for Jordan because he felt they gave him the best chance of winning. He turned down an offer for Sauber which was far more lucrative. It wasn't about the money. He wanted to put himself in the most competitive car.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by lamo »

nixxxon wrote:
Zoue wrote:
nixxxon wrote:Alonso to McLaren, both times actually.

And also, Alonso rejecting a Red Bull offer in 2008 to return back to Renault, however that was a logical move since Red Bull were just a midfield team at the time and Renault was an official works team that won the WDC two years ago
Actually, I'd say the first move was a pretty good one, considering they were the joint best car with the Ferrari that year. That he messed it up afterwards doesn't make the original decision poor
He helped McLaren with his input from Renault. They would not have been as quick
He ended up with Hamilton as team mate in Ron Dennis+Hamilton's team.
Ron Dennis himself admitted that Hamilton played a huge part in the 2007 feud, so enough of blaming only Alonso for it
0.6 wasn't it? ;)

The biggest help he gave Mclaren relative to 2006 was removing the Alonso-Renault package from the grid which coincidentally went along with the Ferrari-Schumacher package. Remove those 2 dominant forces from 2006 and it becomes a Felipe Massa (Ferrari) vs Kimi Raikkonen (Mclaren) vs Fisichella (Renault) quite close title fight. That was the biggest influence to why 2007 was close between Ferrari and Mclaren. Kimi actually would have lost the title to Massa due to more mechanical DNFs and collisions/accidents. It would have been a great season with possibly Montoya fighting for the title too as I am sure he would have stayed and he was on Kimi's pace in 2006 too.

Renault was doomed for 2007 however with the lose of its Mass Damper late in 2006 (Alonso won 1 lucky race in the last 9 of the 2006 season, Ferrari was already dominant) its custom made Michelin tyres and its star driver.

Alonso actually had perfect timing during the first half of his career. He got into Renault when it began to invest heavily and they won races in his first year in 2003 and then 2004 before both titles in 2005 and 2006. He also got out of Renault at the perfect time as the Mild Seven money and custom Michelin tyres went. Up until 2007 it had all gone perfect and if Mclaren had put Pedro in the car he likely would have won the title in 2007 and 2008. Even his move to Renault in 2008 (given the circumstances) and then Ferrari in 2010 were good moves all things considered. The Renault by the end of 2008 had become a good car again although the rule changes for 2009 destroyed the progress.

Alonsos downfall begins 2011 on wards and without the emergence of Red Bull he likely would have won 2 or 3 titles at Ferrari. The 2014 hybrid era has been very bad for him though, leaving Ferrari just at they came good and to spend 3 seasons with those Mclarens is like nothing he had before.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by Donington93 »

Coulthard to McLaren in 96.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by funkymonkey »

Surely not many can come close to the Alonso situation. Its a multiple world champion driver on top of his game moving to a team that was constantly in top 3 - 4 running for over a decade and half and ending up towards end with the name like Honda attached to it.

That has to be the most disastrous career moves out there. I clearly thought it was a mistake on Alonso's part to leave Ferrari. I said so here in these forums back then. But not in my life I would have guessed McLaren will end up that bad and fail to improve for 3 years.

Its almost tragic. We see each weekend that Alonso still got the pace and hunger and racecraft. And car keeps letting him and F1 fans down. So much so it is borderline disgrace to modern F1.
McLaren Honda race finish history looks like we are seeing leader boards from 80s and early 90s with DNF after DNF.
Not many examples in this thread involves a world class driver like Alonso.

I dont see Alonso moving to McLaren first time as disaster. He and McLaren had a great year that season even with all the crap that went down. I also dont see him moving to Renault as a disaster. At that point he pretty much knew the move to Ferrari is coming up in 2 years.
But his move away from Ferrari has been nothing short of disaster.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by Herb Tarlik »

funkymonkey wrote:Surely not many can come close to the Alonso situation. Its a multiple world champion driver on top of his game moving to a team that was constantly in top 3 - 4 running for over a decade and half and ending up towards end with the name like Honda attached to it.

That has to be the most disastrous career moves out there. I clearly thought it was a mistake on Alonso's part to leave Ferrari. I said so here in these forums back then. But not in my life I would have guessed McLaren will end up that bad and fail to improve for 3 years.

Its almost tragic. We see each weekend that Alonso still got the pace and hunger and racecraft. And car keeps letting him and F1 fans down. So much so it is borderline disgrace to modern F1.
McLaren Honda race finish history looks like we are seeing leader boards from 80s and early 90s with DNF after DNF.
Not many examples in this thread involves a world class driver like Alonso.

I dont see Alonso moving to McLaren first time as disaster. He and McLaren had a great year that season even with all the crap that went down. I also dont see him moving to Renault as a disaster. At that point he pretty much knew the move to Ferrari is coming up in 2 years.
But his move away from Ferrari has been nothing short of disaster.
I so much agree with your post. It is a true F1 tragedy that a driver with the talents like Fernando Alonso is forced to drive the wheels off his car to fight for 15th place. It's appalling. It would be like having Tom Brady playing on some tier 4 college team instead of a contending NFL team.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by mcdo »

funkymonkey wrote:Surely not many can come close to the Alonso situation. Its a multiple world champion driver on top of his game moving to a team that was constantly in top 3 - 4 running for over a decade and half and ending up towards end with the name like Honda attached to it.

That has to be the most disastrous career moves out there. I clearly thought it was a mistake on Alonso's part to leave Ferrari. I said so here in these forums back then. But not in my life I would have guessed McLaren will end up that bad and fail to improve for 3 years.

Its almost tragic. We see each weekend that Alonso still got the pace and hunger and racecraft. And car keeps letting him and F1 fans down. So much so it is borderline disgrace to modern F1.
McLaren Honda race finish history looks like we are seeing leader boards from 80s and early 90s with DNF after DNF.
Not many examples in this thread involves a world class driver like Alonso.

I dont see Alonso moving to McLaren first time as disaster. He and McLaren had a great year that season even with all the crap that went down. I also dont see him moving to Renault as a disaster. At that point he pretty much knew the move to Ferrari is coming up in 2 years.
But his move away from Ferrari has been nothing short of disaster.
What would he have achieved by staying at Ferrari? A few more wins and more appearances on the podium? After more of the same old ding dong throughout 2015 and 2016 it's hard to imagine he'd still be there

If he left after 2016 and Ferrari win a title this year I'd call it a disastrous career move
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by MistaVega23 »

Donington93 wrote:Coulthard to McLaren in 96.
:?
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by Donington93 »

The 1996 and 1997 Williams were world beaters. The 1996 and 1997 McLaren's were not. If he could have held on at Williams (ie got the seat over JV or Damon or even another year as a test driver then beat out HHF for the seat in 97) he *might* have won a WDC in 1996 or 1997.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by AnRs »

Hard to make it Alonso, three times a title contender, Renault, McLaren and Ferrari, only guys with better cars is Lewis and Sebastian.

He's also considered by many as the best of this generation so what is there to be sorry for, the bank account?

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by mikeyg123 »

Donington93 wrote:The 1996 and 1997 Williams were world beaters. The 1996 and 1997 McLaren's were not. If he could have held on at Williams (ie got the seat over JV or Damon or even another year as a test driver then beat out HHF for the seat in 97) he *might* have won a WDC in 1996 or 1997.
Depends on how you look at it. Had he stayed he probably would have been world champion but would he have had the long competitive career he ended up with by joining Mclaren?

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by MistaVega23 »

Donington93 wrote:The 1996 and 1997 Williams were world beaters. The 1996 and 1997 McLaren's were not. If he could have held on at Williams (ie got the seat over JV or Damon or even another year as a test driver then beat out HHF for the seat in 97) he *might* have won a WDC in 1996 or 1997.
But DC didn't choose to leave. Hill already had a contract for 1996 whilst they were bringing JV in regardless. The move to McLaren was probably as good as it was going to get.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by mikeyg123 »

MistaVega23 wrote:
Donington93 wrote:The 1996 and 1997 Williams were world beaters. The 1996 and 1997 McLaren's were not. If he could have held on at Williams (ie got the seat over JV or Damon or even another year as a test driver then beat out HHF for the seat in 97) he *might* have won a WDC in 1996 or 1997.
But DC didn't choose to leave. Hill already had a contract for 1996 whilst they were bringing JV in regardless. The move to McLaren was probably as good as it was going to get.
I'm pretty sure Williams wanted DC to remain. I don't think the Villenueve deal was on until after DC decided to leave. Coulthard was already in talks with Mclaren pre 95.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by GingerFurball »

MistaVega23 wrote:
Donington93 wrote:The 1996 and 1997 Williams were world beaters. The 1996 and 1997 McLaren's were not. If he could have held on at Williams (ie got the seat over JV or Damon or even another year as a test driver then beat out HHF for the seat in 97) he *might* have won a WDC in 1996 or 1997.
But DC didn't choose to leave. Hill already had a contract for 1996 whilst they were bringing JV in regardless. The move to McLaren was probably as good as it was going to get.
McLaren had an option on Coulthard that they exercised for 1996.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

I know that not many people here rate Maldonado and I know, he wasn't very good most of the time. But his move from Williams to Lotus was extremely unlucky. If Alonso had done the same move as him, people would probably be saying this was almost as bad as his move to McLaren Honda.
The thing is, the Williams car in 2013 was very poor. Maldonado left and went to Lotus. Lotus were very strong indeed in 2012 and 2013 so he would have hoped that to continue the next year. But instead, Lotus was getting on for the worst team on the grid. And while that happened, Williams were instantly right near the top with what was pretty much the 2nd best car that year in 2014. Maldonado must have really regretted that move. But at leased there was a much bigger improvement by Lotus the next year compared to the difference Mclaren Honda made between 2015 and 2016. And even now, the McLaren is still really bad.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by davidheath461 »

mcdo wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:Surely not many can come close to the Alonso situation. Its a multiple world champion driver on top of his game moving to a team that was constantly in top 3 - 4 running for over a decade and half and ending up towards end with the name like Honda attached to it.

That has to be the most disastrous career moves out there. I clearly thought it was a mistake on Alonso's part to leave Ferrari. I said so here in these forums back then. But not in my life I would have guessed McLaren will end up that bad and fail to improve for 3 years.

Its almost tragic. We see each weekend that Alonso still got the pace and hunger and racecraft. And car keeps letting him and F1 fans down. So much so it is borderline disgrace to modern F1.
McLaren Honda race finish history looks like we are seeing leader boards from 80s and early 90s with DNF after DNF.
Not many examples in this thread involves a world class driver like Alonso.

I dont see Alonso moving to McLaren first time as disaster. He and McLaren had a great year that season even with all the crap that went down. I also dont see him moving to Renault as a disaster. At that point he pretty much knew the move to Ferrari is coming up in 2 years.
But his move away from Ferrari has been nothing short of disaster.
What would he have achieved by staying at Ferrari? A few more wins and more appearances on the podium? After more of the same old ding dong throughout 2015 and 2016 it's hard to imagine he'd still be there

If he left after 2016 and Ferrari win a title this year I'd call it a disastrous career move
Yes, when you consider his contract expired in 2016, i think he would have got fed up with the Ferrari lack of progress during 2016 regardless. Where would he have gone? Surely he wouldn't choose Mclaren after seeing the first 2 years with Honda.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by GingerFurball »

davidheath461 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:Surely not many can come close to the Alonso situation. Its a multiple world champion driver on top of his game moving to a team that was constantly in top 3 - 4 running for over a decade and half and ending up towards end with the name like Honda attached to it.

That has to be the most disastrous career moves out there. I clearly thought it was a mistake on Alonso's part to leave Ferrari. I said so here in these forums back then. But not in my life I would have guessed McLaren will end up that bad and fail to improve for 3 years.

Its almost tragic. We see each weekend that Alonso still got the pace and hunger and racecraft. And car keeps letting him and F1 fans down. So much so it is borderline disgrace to modern F1.
McLaren Honda race finish history looks like we are seeing leader boards from 80s and early 90s with DNF after DNF.
Not many examples in this thread involves a world class driver like Alonso.

I dont see Alonso moving to McLaren first time as disaster. He and McLaren had a great year that season even with all the crap that went down. I also dont see him moving to Renault as a disaster. At that point he pretty much knew the move to Ferrari is coming up in 2 years.
But his move away from Ferrari has been nothing short of disaster.
What would he have achieved by staying at Ferrari? A few more wins and more appearances on the podium? After more of the same old ding dong throughout 2015 and 2016 it's hard to imagine he'd still be there

If he left after 2016 and Ferrari win a title this year I'd call it a disastrous career move
Yes, when you consider his contract expired in 2016, i think he would have got fed up with the Ferrari lack of progress during 2016 regardless. Where would he have gone? Surely he wouldn't choose Mclaren after seeing the first 2 years with Honda.
That's the interesting thing. I don't think he would have been keen to stay at Ferrari for 2017 if he'd stayed for 2015 and 16, but until Rosberg's shock retirement there would have been nowhere else to go. I don't see Ferrari coming out of Abu Dhabi being ok with Alonso not comitting to a contract and having no idea who their lead driver for 2017 is.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by Pole2Win »

Can we really blame Alonso for going to McLaren? Let's be honest, Hamilton did the same in 2013 when there was no guarantee Mercedes would be a world beater in 2014. It was a change in regulations and anything could've happened.

The stranger move was Vettel to Ferrari in 2015, though at that point he probably wanted to do something different, and the fact he got beaten by Ricciardo didn't help either.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by RaggedMan »

Pole2Win wrote:Can we really blame Alonso for going to McLaren? Let's be honest, Hamilton did the same in 2013 when there was no guarantee Mercedes would be a world beater in 2014. It was a change in regulations and anything could've happened.

The stranger move was Vettel to Ferrari in 2015, though at that point he probably wanted to do something different, and the fact he got beaten by Ricciardo didn't help either.
I don't think Vettel to Ferrari is strange at all. It was no secret that he would like to one day drive for them, they were looking for a top driver, and Red Bulls PU supplier wasn't providing a very good product at the time and there were questions about who, if anyone, would be supplying them the next year.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by funkymonkey »

mcdo wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:Surely not many can come close to the Alonso situation. Its a multiple world champion driver on top of his game moving to a team that was constantly in top 3 - 4 running for over a decade and half and ending up towards end with the name like Honda attached to it.

That has to be the most disastrous career moves out there. I clearly thought it was a mistake on Alonso's part to leave Ferrari. I said so here in these forums back then. But not in my life I would have guessed McLaren will end up that bad and fail to improve for 3 years.

Its almost tragic. We see each weekend that Alonso still got the pace and hunger and racecraft. And car keeps letting him and F1 fans down. So much so it is borderline disgrace to modern F1.
McLaren Honda race finish history looks like we are seeing leader boards from 80s and early 90s with DNF after DNF.
Not many examples in this thread involves a world class driver like Alonso.

I dont see Alonso moving to McLaren first time as disaster. He and McLaren had a great year that season even with all the crap that went down. I also dont see him moving to Renault as a disaster. At that point he pretty much knew the move to Ferrari is coming up in 2 years.
But his move away from Ferrari has been nothing short of disaster.
What would he have achieved by staying at Ferrari? A few more wins and more appearances on the podium? After more of the same old ding dong throughout 2015 and 2016 it's hard to imagine he'd still be there

If he left after 2016 and Ferrari win a title this year I'd call it a disastrous career move
We will never know.
Anything is better than spending time in McLaren Honda. There has been no progress. Not a slight chance of win. Not even hint of podium. Rare top 10 finishes.
It is nothing short of disaster. And what I said 3 years back still stands. Had he kept faith in Ferrari they would eventually deliver. And they have this year.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by GingerFurball »

Given what Ferrari delivered in 2016, would he have kept the faith for this year?

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by ALESI »

Depends if a driver values his statistics over his bank balance? For example, Alonso had two WDCs in the bag, sure he wants another one but he's not stupid, he knows as well as we all do that to win a WDC you have to be in the right car at the right time. With the Merc seats seemingly out of reach was it a massive reach to say a works backed McLaren with $50m on offer was a 'bad' move?

Similarly DC was under no illusions about his own performance v Mika, I'm pretty sure he quickly realised that unless he could get a car advantage he was better off doing his best and taking the money on offer. He seems to have done pretty well out of his less than stellar career (he owns a hotel in Monaco I believe). Same goes for Eddie Irvine, he made a ton of money out of F1.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by funkymonkey »

GingerFurball wrote:Given what Ferrari delivered in 2016, would he have kept the faith for this year?
What better option other than Mercedes did he have? At least he would have had chance to go to Mercedes instead of Bottas. Still better than McLaren.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by pokerman »

MistaVega23 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:Ferrari signing Raikkonen over Alonso for 2007.
Yes quite possibly Kimi could have won the title in both 2007 and 2008 had he stayed at McLaren, but I wouldn't call it the worst driver career decision.
Didn't McLaren announce that Alonso was to join them in 2007 as early as late 2005/early 2006? Schumacher was still at Ferrari at that stage and from what I remember the decision to sign Raikkonen wasn't made until the summer of 2006. Alonso wouldn't have been available anyway.
Yep it would have been Kimi against Alonso at McLaren and on Bridgestone tyres not Michelins, good luck with the two titles for Kimi.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by pokerman »

mcdo wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:Surely not many can come close to the Alonso situation. Its a multiple world champion driver on top of his game moving to a team that was constantly in top 3 - 4 running for over a decade and half and ending up towards end with the name like Honda attached to it.

That has to be the most disastrous career moves out there. I clearly thought it was a mistake on Alonso's part to leave Ferrari. I said so here in these forums back then. But not in my life I would have guessed McLaren will end up that bad and fail to improve for 3 years.

Its almost tragic. We see each weekend that Alonso still got the pace and hunger and racecraft. And car keeps letting him and F1 fans down. So much so it is borderline disgrace to modern F1.
McLaren Honda race finish history looks like we are seeing leader boards from 80s and early 90s with DNF after DNF.
Not many examples in this thread involves a world class driver like Alonso.

I dont see Alonso moving to McLaren first time as disaster. He and McLaren had a great year that season even with all the crap that went down. I also dont see him moving to Renault as a disaster. At that point he pretty much knew the move to Ferrari is coming up in 2 years.
But his move away from Ferrari has been nothing short of disaster.
What would he have achieved by staying at Ferrari? A few more wins and more appearances on the podium? After more of the same old ding dong throughout 2015 and 2016 it's hard to imagine he'd still be there

If he left after 2016 and Ferrari win a title this year I'd call it a disastrous career move
In 2014 Ferrari were trying to extend Alonso's contract through to 2019 so he would have come through the lean times into the good times.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by pokerman »

Pole2Win wrote:Can we really blame Alonso for going to McLaren? Let's be honest, Hamilton did the same in 2013 when there was no guarantee Mercedes would be a world beater in 2014. It was a change in regulations and anything could've happened.

The stranger move was Vettel to Ferrari in 2015, though at that point he probably wanted to do something different, and the fact he got beaten by Ricciardo didn't help either.
I can't help but feel that Alonso's decision to join McLaren was very much influenced by what Hamilton did with Mercedes, up until then Alonso just looked at who is quick now in making his decisions.

he signed for McLaren in 2005 when they had he fastest car and it's believed he was in negotiations with Ferrari in 2008 when they had the fastest car, he never gambled on his decisions hence he turned down both Red Bull and Honda for 2008.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by pokerman »

ALESI wrote:Depends if a driver values his statistics over his bank balance? For example, Alonso had two WDCs in the bag, sure he wants another one but he's not stupid, he knows as well as we all do that to win a WDC you have to be in the right car at the right time. With the Merc seats seemingly out of reach was it a massive reach to say a works backed McLaren with $50m on offer was a 'bad' move?

Similarly DC was under no illusions about his own performance v Mika, I'm pretty sure he quickly realised that unless he could get a car advantage he was better off doing his best and taking the money on offer. He seems to have done pretty well out of his less than stellar career (he owns a hotel in Monaco I believe). Same goes for Eddie Irvine, he made a ton of money out of F1.
I don't believe Alonso went to McLaren for the money, he had plenty of money and was well payed at Ferrari.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by Lotus49 »

I think he just gambled on who would catch Mercedes first. He knew Ferrari's issues,He knew Renault had similar issues but there was a lot of hype around Honda and their split turbo during 2014.

Lewis gamble paying off could well have been an added push to try it as poker suggests too. Like most decisions it's hindsight that decides if it was terrible or not.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by Rockie »

Lotus49 wrote:I think he just gambled on who would catch Mercedes first. He knew Ferrari's issues,He knew Renault had similar issues but there was a lot of hype around Honda and their split turbo during 2014.

Lewis gamble paying off could well have been an added push to try it as poker suggests too. Like most decisions it's hindsight that decides if it was terrible or not.
Alonso made a stupid move simple, he put himself in no man's land trying to hold out on Ferrari.

Honda has only been successful just once but then it was due to circumstance also their later foray in F1 was a disaster which has continued in this era as well.

As per Lewis he didn't take a gamble, Mercedes were on the up already and also analysts were already saying they were going to have the best hybrid engine, which surprise surprise they did!

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by lamo »

Mercedes were on a general down from when they entered F1, especially the awful second half to 2012 when Hamilton actually signed.

2009: won both titles as Brawn
2010: 214 points
2011: 165 points
2012: 142 points

Hamilton got lucky with how good that 2013 car was and they scored 360 points.

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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by Lotus49 »

Rockie wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:I think he just gambled on who would catch Mercedes first. He knew Ferrari's issues,He knew Renault had similar issues but there was a lot of hype around Honda and their split turbo during 2014.

Lewis gamble paying off could well have been an added push to try it as poker suggests too. Like most decisions it's hindsight that decides if it was terrible or not.
Alonso made a stupid move simple, he put himself in no man's land trying to hold out on Ferrari.

Honda has only been successful just once but then it was due to circumstance also their later foray in F1 was a disaster which has continued in this era as well.

As per Lewis he didn't take a gamble, Mercedes were on the up already and also analysts were already saying they were going to have the best hybrid engine, which surprise surprise they did!
How did Lewis not take a gamble?. Mercedes slumped in the second half of 2012 and McLaren had the quickest car when he made the move. Yes there were positive noises about Mercedes and being with an engine manufacturer during an engine regulation makes sense but you can tell by the reaction to the news of his move which way most were leaning.

As for Alonso he'd had 5 seasons of disappointment without getting the best car and Ferrari had bigger problems than Renault when Honda came calling. And you can pretend no-one thought Honda would hit the ground running all you want but simply bump some prediction threads or news reports before November(When Honda tested-well tried to test) at AD.

One came off and the other didn't. "Stuff" happens.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by Pole2Win »

Rockie wrote:As per Lewis he didn't take a gamble, Mercedes were on the up already and also analysts were already saying they were going to have the best hybrid engine, which surprise surprise they did!
They were going to have the best engine, but what about the rest of the car? ;)

They already had the best engine between 2009-2013, but their car was a tire eater which was useless in the races, and ultimately not fast enough to challenge the top cars of the time.
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Re: Worst driver career decisions

Post by lamo »

Pole2Win wrote:
Rockie wrote:As per Lewis he didn't take a gamble, Mercedes were on the up already and also analysts were already saying they were going to have the best hybrid engine, which surprise surprise they did!
They were going to have the best engine, but what about the rest of the car? ;)

They already had the best engine between 2009-2013, but their car was a tire eater which was useless in the races, and ultimately not fast enough to challenge the top cars of the time.
Honda were going to have the best engine too :lol:

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