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UnlikeUday wrote:Sauber is close to sealing the deal with Honda for 2018. An announcement is due in the coming days:

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/sa ... tory.shtml

This would probably be a positive thing for Honda, McLaren and Sauber.
Having a separate team providing an independent approach and feedback, as well as a separate test bed/control for the primary factory team should help development, especially if while they are struggling to catch up.

wolfticket wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Sauber is close to sealing the deal with Honda for 2018. An announcement is due in the coming days:

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/sa ... tory.shtml

This would probably be a positive thing for Honda, McLaren and Sauber.
Having a separate team providing an independent approach and feedback, as well as a separate test bed/control for the primary factory team should help development, especially if while they are struggling to catch up.

Stretching reality a little, this is a dagger in the sock for Honda v Mclaren if it comes to devoice proceedings.
Honda can outright own Sauber Honda for little more than the are feeding Mclaren each year, so the "I'm off" option loses its value

moby wrote:

wolfticket wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Sauber is close to sealing the deal with Honda for 2018. An announcement is due in the coming days:

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/sa ... tory.shtml

This would probably be a positive thing for Honda, McLaren and Sauber.
Having a separate team providing an independent approach and feedback, as well as a separate test bed/control for the primary factory team should help development, especially if while they are struggling to catch up.

Stretching reality a little, this is a dagger in the sock for Honda v Mclaren if it comes to devoice proceedings.
Honda can outright own Sauber Honda for little more than the are feeding Mclaren each year, so the "I'm off" option loses its value

Honda was a complete failure as a works team and there is no indication at all that they have the talent to pull it off today. Honda would be insane to try again building a car considering how poorly they are floundering try to develop a stable engine.

moby wrote:

wolfticket wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Sauber is close to sealing the deal with Honda for 2018. An announcement is due in the coming days:

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/sa ... tory.shtml

This would probably be a positive thing for Honda, McLaren and Sauber.
Having a separate team providing an independent approach and feedback, as well as a separate test bed/control for the primary factory team should help development, especially if while they are struggling to catch up.

Stretching reality a little, this is a dagger in the sock for Honda v Mclaren if it comes to devoice proceedings.
Honda can outright own Sauber Honda for little more than the are feeding Mclaren each year, so the "I'm off" option loses its value

I think Honda's last foray with running a full team has shown them how difficult that is. It's more likely IMO that this is partly at least showing McLaren how serious they are by supplying another team, whose additional data can only help the Works team. I think Honda need a team like McLaren just as much as McLaren need a strong engine partner.

Herb Tarlik wrote:

moby wrote:

wolfticket wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Sauber is close to sealing the deal with Honda for 2018. An announcement is due in the coming days:

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/sa ... tory.shtml

This would probably be a positive thing for Honda, McLaren and Sauber.
Having a separate team providing an independent approach and feedback, as well as a separate test bed/control for the primary factory team should help development, especially if while they are struggling to catch up.

Stretching reality a little, this is a dagger in the sock for Honda v Mclaren if it comes to devoice proceedings.
Honda can outright own Sauber Honda for little more than the are feeding Mclaren each year, so the "I'm off" option loses its value

Honda was a complete failure as a works team and there is no indication at all that they have the talent to pull it off today. Honda would be insane to try again building a car considering how poorly they are floundering try to develop a stable engine.

They do not need to build the car, Sauber already do that, just fund it and call the shots.

Zoue wrote:

moby wrote:

wolfticket wrote:

UnlikeUday wrote:Sauber is close to sealing the deal with Honda for 2018. An announcement is due in the coming days:

http://www.eurosport.co.uk/formula-1/sa ... tory.shtml

This would probably be a positive thing for Honda, McLaren and Sauber.
Having a separate team providing an independent approach and feedback, as well as a separate test bed/control for the primary factory team should help development, especially if while they are struggling to catch up.

Stretching reality a little, this is a dagger in the sock for Honda v Mclaren if it comes to devoice proceedings.
Honda can outright own Sauber Honda for little more than the are feeding Mclaren each year, so the "I'm off" option loses its value

I think Honda's last foray with running a full team has shown them how difficult that is. It's more likely IMO that this is partly at least showing McLaren how serious they are by supplying another team, whose additional data can only help the Works team. I think Honda need a team like McLaren just as much as McLaren need a strong engine partner.

Their last foray with bloody everything

Sauber will use Honda engines. Officially confirmed:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... 18-900064/

Yup, just saw the news. Looks like it's really happening.

As a McLaren fan, this can't be a bad thing. More data for Honda, and we can't possibly have fallen far enough that we're concerned about competition from Sauber!

I still think there is a big chance for Mclaren to switch to Mercedes engines next year. The rumors just won't stop so there must be something there. I think it is entirely dependent on Honda's progress this season.. If no noticeable improvement is made by Canada, I can sense the announcement pretty shortly after that. Expecting maybe a one year deal with Merc. I guess Mclaren will leave the door open for Honda if they see progress with Sauber next year. Having 4 Honda powered cars on the grid is still far fetched I'm afraid.

oh boy, good luck to them. This looks more like Honda buying an insurance than something to get excited about. So in case McLaren decides to end Honda deal, they now have Sauber to race their engines in.

Good luck to both of them. I will keep my fingers crossed.

Good news for both parties I think. Honda get double the amount of data and Sauber were going nowhere with year old engines.

Poor Sauber, already running around at the back and now they are going to have the Honda engine inflicted on them

Aren't they suffering enough already?

G926 wrote:Poor Sauber, already running around at the back and now they are going to have the Honda engine inflicted on them

Aren't they suffering enough already?

The only way Sauber can "profit" from taking these Honda engines is if they are free. Other than that, the move to Honda will be an abject disaster for Sauber, as it was and is for McLaren.

j man wrote:Good news for both parties I think. Honda get double the amount of data and Sauber were going nowhere with year old engines.

McLaren are going nowhere with Honda so I dont see how the move to Honda helps them, unless the engines are supplied free of charge.

I doubt this is good news for Sauber unless Honda are finally able to step up their game, but at least it has the potential of helping McLaren if the additional data from Sauber can be of aid to Honda in developing their engine. Not that Sauber really has much to lose at this point, of course.

I wonder if Mercedes supply McLaren next year if so I wonder if Red Bull would consider a switch? they have in the past nabbed McLaren sponsors! I'm being serious when I say Honda could supply Red Bull.

Herb Tarlik wrote:

j man wrote:Good news for both parties I think. Honda get double the amount of data and Sauber were going nowhere with year old engines.

McLaren are going nowhere with Honda so I dont see how the move to Honda helps them, unless the engines are supplied free of charge.

I thought i heard on Sky comentary some time this weekend engines will be free, and its also a technical partnership, whatever that means but i guess a bit more support than just giving them an engine. I could be wrong.
Honda had to have given them a sweet deal for them to make the change.
What i dont understand is why not just start now rather than 2018.
Engine mountings were standardised in 2013 for the exact reason of making a switch easy.
It could be costly to make changes to body work but honda should just pay for that too.
It could be illegal but that is what Boulier should get teams to agree to rather than the silly 0.3 sec performance gap.

AravJ wrote:

Herb Tarlik wrote:

j man wrote:Good news for both parties I think. Honda get double the amount of data and Sauber were going nowhere with year old engines.

McLaren are going nowhere with Honda so I dont see how the move to Honda helps them, unless the engines are supplied free of charge.

I thought i heard on Sky comentary some time this weekend engines will be free, and its also a technical partnership, whatever that means but i guess a bit more support than just giving them an engine. I could be wrong.
Honda had to have given them a sweet deal for them to make the change.
What i dont understand is why not just start now rather than 2018.
Engine mountings were standardised in 2013 for the exact reason of making a switch easy.
It could be costly to make changes to body work but honda should just pay for that too.
It could be illegal but that is what Boulier should get teams to agree to rather than the silly 0.3 sec performance gap.

Did a long answer and lost connection so here's a short version...
Although mountings were standard the rest of the engine is not, the have to redo bodywork (therefore aero) cooling and more besides; too much work for a unforced mid season change