Giovinazzi v Pascal

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paulsf1fix
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by paulsf1fix »

I was hoping for Giovinazzi to win the GP2 title at his first attempt, he admitted in an interview that he helped Gasly win the title....

However I thought Giovinazzi did a good job in Melbourne he earnt some valuable F1 milage and brought the car home, it's a shame that he may not continue this year.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by pokerman »

paulsf1fix wrote:I was hoping for Giovinazzi to win the GP2 title at his first attempt, he admitted in an interview that he helped Gasly win the title....

However I thought Giovinazzi did a good job in Melbourne he earnt some valuable F1 milage and brought the car home, it's a shame that he may not continue this year.
I heard it differently that Gasly helped Giovinazzi with him being a rookie.
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by kleefton »

Still amazed at all the werhlein supporters.

Will be keeping a close eye on his matchup with ericsson. My honest feeling is that they are the same level and it wouldnt shock me at all if ericsson beats him more often than not. Of course pascal will always have his roc crash in his back pocket as a defense.

Sorry, just not buying into the pascal hype :thumbdown:

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by mikeyg123 »

kleefton wrote:Still amazed at all the werhlein supporters.

Will be keeping a close eye on his matchup with ericsson. My honest feeling is that they are the same level and it wouldnt shock me at all if ericsson beats him more often than not. Of course pascal will always have his roc crash in his back pocket as a defense.

Sorry, just not buying into the pascal hype :thumbdown:
Ericsson is under rated as well. I doubt Wehrlein will be dominant over him. Especially in a team owned by Ericsson's sponsors.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by lamo »

Very harsh on Pascal, the guy received a neck injury months before the cars became a whole lot more physical to drive. This is elite sport, any minor drop in fitness or injury can cost you a lot. Giovinazzi was impressive but put your pitch folks down for Pascal.

To the person who also had Sciatica, I had it for about 6-12 months coming and going but never very painful just niggling and annoying at times and couldn't play football or cycle when it was flaring up.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by mds »

mikeyg123 wrote: Ericsson is under rated as well.
I don't think he is, I believe he was flattered somewhat by not having a great teammate in Nasr who (I believe) for some reason was overrated.
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by mikeyg123 »

mds wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote: Ericsson is under rated as well.
I don't think he is, I believe he was flattered somewhat by not having a great teammate in Nasr who (I believe) for some reason was overrated.
Possibly. I think the up curve in Ericsson is clear to see though. He started off worse than Nasr but finished a fair bit stronger. I'm not trying to argue he is a future WDC or even race winner, just that he shouldn't be regarded as useless canon fodder.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by mds »

Reading rumors now that Wehrlein won't be ready to drive in China and even Bahrain as well. Ferrari will allow Giovinazzi to race.
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by Covalent »

mds wrote:Reading rumors now that Wehrlein won't be ready to drive in China and even Bahrain as well. Ferrari will allow Giovinazzi to race.
I just hope this whole Wehrlein situation isn't just a cover up for yet a case of Kaltenborn selling more seats than she has to offer.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by Exediron »

mds wrote:Reading rumors now that Wehrlein won't be ready to drive in China and even Bahrain as well. Ferrari will allow Giovinazzi to race.
How long does it take to get fit enough to drive an F1 car? Particularly when a guy who wasn't expecting to drive full-time already is apparently fit enough?

I can't help but to suspect there's more to this than meets the eye... :?
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by UnlikeUday »

Exediron wrote:
mds wrote:Reading rumors now that Wehrlein won't be ready to drive in China and even Bahrain as well. Ferrari will allow Giovinazzi to race.
How long does it take to get fit enough to drive an F1 car? Particularly when a guy who wasn't expecting to drive full-time already is apparently fit enough?

I can't help but to suspect there's more to this than meets the eye... :?
There's surely more than what meets the eye!

Is Wehrlein really not fit enough? Other rumours of Sauber & Honda joining hands also doesn't add up here.

It's not like Ferrari are telling Sauber if You let Giovinazzi drive, we'll give 2017 engines or not charge a dime for the 2016 engines.

Or are they trying to pull the plug on the Sauber - Honda deal?
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by mcdo »

Exediron wrote:
mds wrote:Reading rumors now that Wehrlein won't be ready to drive in China and even Bahrain as well. Ferrari will allow Giovinazzi to race.
How long does it take to get fit enough to drive an F1 car? Particularly when a guy who wasn't expecting to drive full-time already is apparently fit enough?

I can't help but to suspect there's more to this than meets the eye... :?
If the injury was his leg or something I might be sceptical. But it was his back. Different ball game
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by moby »

Something I had not considered in this is reserve driver status.

Ferrari has released Giovinazzi for China if needed but was reluctant as letting Giovinazzi do more races will make him ineligible for young driver tests.

It seems as if it would need to be some sort of commitment if they use him then?

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by Nosebuckle »

moby wrote:Something I had not considered in this is reserve driver status.

Ferrari has released Giovinazzi for China if needed but was reluctant as letting Giovinazzi do more races will make him ineligible for young driver tests.

It seems as if it would need to be some sort of commitment if they use him then?
If Ferrari are serious about keeping Giovinazzi as their reserve driver, I imagine they would want him to have as much race experience as he can get, as that would be better for his development than having him available for the young driver tests, which they have Charles Leclerc available for.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by moby »

Nosebuckle wrote:
moby wrote:Something I had not considered in this is reserve driver status.

Ferrari has released Giovinazzi for China if needed but was reluctant as letting Giovinazzi do more races will make him ineligible for young driver tests.

It seems as if it would need to be some sort of commitment if they use him then?
If Ferrari are serious about keeping Giovinazzi as their reserve driver, I imagine they would want him to have as much race experience as he can get, as that would be better for his development than having him available for the young driver tests, which they have Charles Leclerc available for.

That is the way I looked at it, but apparently Ferrari want to keep him eligible. Its probably a trade off to consider.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by UnlikeUday »

A certain banned website out here is citing that Maldonado is going to make a return to Sauber!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

His representatives were seen with Sauber & the website claims a deal has been struck, replacing Wehrlein! Since he brings in loads of sponsorship money (which Sauber needs), he's been signed & this is a 1 year contract but has an option for 2nd year depending on performance!

This is a big shocker if it turns true.
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by kleefton »

UnlikeUday wrote:A certain banned website out here is citing that Maldonado is going to make a return to Sauber!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

His representatives were seen with Sauber & the website claims a deal has been struck, replacing Wehrlein! Since he brings in loads of sponsorship money (which Sauber needs), he's been signed & this is a 1 year contract but has an option for 2nd year depending on performance!

This is a big shocker if it turns true.
What?

I must say, even though I'm obviously no Wherlein fan but I would really feel bad for the kid if this turns out to be true.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by UnlikeUday »

kleefton wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:A certain banned website out here is citing that Maldonado is going to make a return to Sauber!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

His representatives were seen with Sauber & the website claims a deal has been struck, replacing Wehrlein! Since he brings in loads of sponsorship money (which Sauber needs), he's been signed & this is a 1 year contract but has an option for 2nd year depending on performance!

This is a big shocker if it turns true.
What?

I must say, even though I'm obviously no Wherlein fan but I would really feel bad for the kid if this turns out to be true.
I'm just hoping it's an April Fool's joke but this was posted yesterday on the site.
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by mcdo »

UnlikeUday wrote:A certain banned website out here is citing that Maldonado is going to make a return to Sauber!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

8O 8O 8O 8O 8O 8O

His representatives were seen with Sauber & the website claims a deal has been struck, replacing Wehrlein! Since he brings in loads of sponsorship money (which Sauber needs), he's been signed & this is a 1 year contract but has an option for 2nd year depending on performance!

This is a big shocker if it turns true.
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by UnlikeUday »

Giovinazzi again / as expected has replaced Wehrlein in China:

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/351299/
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by Lotus49 »

Was just about to post this. Looks likely for Bahrain too.

Good to see some more of Gio.
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by UnlikeUday »

Lotus49 wrote:Was just about to post this. Looks likely for Bahrain too.

Good to see some more of Gio.
Yeah.

Wehrlein's luck is not deserting him.
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by guardiangr »

This is starting to get weird, I think there's more than just fitness problems.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by justbeingmiko »

Poor Pascal, must have been a more serious back injury than first thought. That is the thing with spinal injuries, they can seem fine but then poof, load and pain!!

Good that Gio is getting another chance to show his skills though :)

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by huggybear »

guardiangr wrote:This is starting to get weird, I think there's more than just fitness problems.
Why? If he isn't fit from a lack of training over the winter due to injury, one week of training isn't going to make a big enough difference to bridge the gap. Rather than try to rush him back, they are letting him get fit properly. If he isn't back by the time we get to Russia at the end of April, that's when we start to wonder.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by guardiangr »

huggybear wrote:
guardiangr wrote:This is starting to get weird, I think there's more than just fitness problems.
Why? If he isn't fit from a lack of training over the winter due to injury, one week of training isn't going to make a big enough difference to bridge the gap. Rather than try to rush him back, they are letting him get fit properly. If he isn't back by the time we get to Russia at the end of April, that's when we start to wonder.
I don't know really, he completed the Barcelona test and the FPs in Friday before the race and suddenly the next day he isn't fit enough to race. It's probably nothing but I just have that feeling that it's maybe something more.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by Lentulus »

guardiangr wrote:
huggybear wrote:
guardiangr wrote:This is starting to get weird, I think there's more than just fitness problems.
Why? If he isn't fit from a lack of training over the winter due to injury, one week of training isn't going to make a big enough difference to bridge the gap. Rather than try to rush him back, they are letting him get fit properly. If he isn't back by the time we get to Russia at the end of April, that's when we start to wonder.
I don't know really, he completed the Barcelona test and the FPs in Friday before the race and suddenly the next day he isn't fit enough to race. It's probably nothing but I just have that feeling that it's maybe something more.
He did contest the FP, and it was that that showed he was nowhere near the fitness level required.
His times were awfully erratic, and he only did short runs during FP and the pre-season test.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by pokerman »

Lentulus wrote:
guardiangr wrote:
huggybear wrote:
guardiangr wrote:This is starting to get weird, I think there's more than just fitness problems.
Why? If he isn't fit from a lack of training over the winter due to injury, one week of training isn't going to make a big enough difference to bridge the gap. Rather than try to rush him back, they are letting him get fit properly. If he isn't back by the time we get to Russia at the end of April, that's when we start to wonder.
I don't know really, he completed the Barcelona test and the FPs in Friday before the race and suddenly the next day he isn't fit enough to race. It's probably nothing but I just have that feeling that it's maybe something more.
He did contest the FP, and it was that that showed he was nowhere near the fitness level required.
His times were awfully erratic, and he only did short runs during FP and the pre-season test.
Yeah he said he wasn't able to driving flat out because of his fitness problems.
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by kleefton »

Now Sergio Perez has come out and said that he would never let another driver in his seat and he would have toughened it out.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by UnlikeUday »

kleefton wrote:Now Sergio Perez has come out and said that he would never let another driver in his seat and he would have toughened it out.
Yeah. Typically, a F1 driver is one of the fittest sportsman around. But if Wehrlein's neck still hurts or any other part of the body, he could be genuine.

What seems a little fuzzy is that if a fit person gets some ailment or some injury, that person's metabolism & overall body must be quick or strong enough to heal quickly.

For example, a casual professional sitting at a desk doing a typical job gets a back injury would probably take more time to heal & get back in shape when compared to an athlete or a sportsperson with the same injury (muscle related) as their metabolisms will differ & even their bodies as the body of the sportsman will be used to wear & tear & in time the body must've built a better immune system to fight / heal faster.
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by Herb »

UnlikeUday wrote:
kleefton wrote:Now Sergio Perez has come out and said that he would never let another driver in his seat and he would have toughened it out.
Yeah. Typically, a F1 driver is one of the fittest sportsman around. But if Wehrlein's neck still hurts or any other part of the body, he could be genuine.

What seems a little fuzzy is that if a fit person gets some ailment or some injury, that person's metabolism & overall body must be quick or strong enough to heal quickly.

For example, a casual professional sitting at a desk doing a typical job gets a back injury would probably take more time to heal & get back in shape when compared to an athlete or a sportsperson with the same injury (muscle related) as their metabolisms will differ & even their bodies as the body of the sportsman will be used to wear & tear & in time the body must've built a better immune system to fight / heal faster.

Can confirm - 4 months getting over slipped discs - still no return to being able to play 5-a-side in sight - Used to play 2 or 3 times a week :(

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by UnlikeUday »

Herb wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
kleefton wrote:Now Sergio Perez has come out and said that he would never let another driver in his seat and he would have toughened it out.
Yeah. Typically, a F1 driver is one of the fittest sportsman around. But if Wehrlein's neck still hurts or any other part of the body, he could be genuine.

What seems a little fuzzy is that if a fit person gets some ailment or some injury, that person's metabolism & overall body must be quick or strong enough to heal quickly.

For example, a casual professional sitting at a desk doing a typical job gets a back injury would probably take more time to heal & get back in shape when compared to an athlete or a sportsperson with the same injury (muscle related) as their metabolisms will differ & even their bodies as the body of the sportsman will be used to wear & tear & in time the body must've built a better immune system to fight / heal faster.

Can confirm - 4 months getting over slipped discs - still no return to being able to play 5-a-side in sight - Used to play 2 or 3 times a week :(
Wish you a complete recovery dude! Be patient, like Wehrlein.
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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by huggybear »

kleefton wrote:Now Sergio Perez has come out and said that he would never let another driver in his seat and he would have toughened it out.
Like he did in Canada that time after his shunt in Monaco? Checo's a bit quick to retcon his history to rake someone over the coals.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by mikeyg123 »

kleefton wrote:Now Sergio Perez has come out and said that he would never let another driver in his seat and he would have toughened it out.
If he has he's talking peaky.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

huggybear wrote:
kleefton wrote:Now Sergio Perez has come out and said that he would never let another driver in his seat and he would have toughened it out.
Like he did in Canada that time after his shunt in Monaco? Checo's a bit quick to retcon his history to rake someone over the coals.
kleefton's post is misleading. He hasn't attacked Wehrlein's decision as it makes out, he said that he hopes there's nothing more serious being hidden about Pascal and that he hopes he is back soon. He did say that he would be in the car if it was just a case of not being 100% fit and that driving would be the best way to up his fitness but that was to make his point about it possibly being something more serious, he also acknowledged everyone is different.

He also didn't say he "would never let another driver in his seat" the actual quote is:
I don't want to let another driver take my place.
Full quotes here: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pere ... 90097/?s=1

It's far from the attack that the post makes out.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by kleefton »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
huggybear wrote:
kleefton wrote:Now Sergio Perez has come out and said that he would never let another driver in his seat and he would have toughened it out.
Like he did in Canada that time after his shunt in Monaco? Checo's a bit quick to retcon his history to rake someone over the coals.
kleefton's post is misleading. He hasn't attacked Wehrlein's decision as it makes out, he said that he hopes there's nothing more serious being hidden about Pascal and that he hopes he is back soon. He did say that he would be in the car if it was just a case of not being 100% fit and that driving would be the best way to up his fitness but that was to make his point about it possibly being something more serious, he also acknowledged everyone is different.

He also didn't say he "would never let another driver in his seat" the actual quote is:
I don't want to let another driver take my place.
Full quotes here: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pere ... 90097/?s=1

It's far from the attack that the post makes out.
Nope. The article i read clearly states what i said:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/perez-i-wo ... to-anyone/

Your article paints it as a more sympathetic stance but to me the gest of those quotes is that sergio would be in that sauber if he was in the same situation.

Im also assuming that what happened in 2011 wasnt his decision to make.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by mikeyg123 »

kleefton wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
huggybear wrote:
kleefton wrote:Now Sergio Perez has come out and said that he would never let another driver in his seat and he would have toughened it out.
Like he did in Canada that time after his shunt in Monaco? Checo's a bit quick to retcon his history to rake someone over the coals.
kleefton's post is misleading. He hasn't attacked Wehrlein's decision as it makes out, he said that he hopes there's nothing more serious being hidden about Pascal and that he hopes he is back soon. He did say that he would be in the car if it was just a case of not being 100% fit and that driving would be the best way to up his fitness but that was to make his point about it possibly being something more serious, he also acknowledged everyone is different.

He also didn't say he "would never let another driver in his seat" the actual quote is:
I don't want to let another driver take my place.
Full quotes here: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pere ... 90097/?s=1

It's far from the attack that the post makes out.
Nope. The article i read clearly states what i said:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/perez-i-wo ... to-anyone/

Your article paints it as a more sympathetic stance but to me the gest of those quotes is that sergio would be in that sauber if he was in the same situation.

Im also assuming that what happened in 2011 wasnt his decision to make.
TBH I'm disappointed in Perez. Basically saying he would rather let his team suffer and compramise their chances of potential points because he would be unwilling to step aside for somebody who was fit. The contrast just shows how selfless Wehrlein is being in giving his team the best chance.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

kleefton wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
huggybear wrote:
kleefton wrote:Now Sergio Perez has come out and said that he would never let another driver in his seat and he would have toughened it out.
Like he did in Canada that time after his shunt in Monaco? Checo's a bit quick to retcon his history to rake someone over the coals.
kleefton's post is misleading. He hasn't attacked Wehrlein's decision as it makes out, he said that he hopes there's nothing more serious being hidden about Pascal and that he hopes he is back soon. He did say that he would be in the car if it was just a case of not being 100% fit and that driving would be the best way to up his fitness but that was to make his point about it possibly being something more serious, he also acknowledged everyone is different.

He also didn't say he "would never let another driver in his seat" the actual quote is:
I don't want to let another driver take my place.
Full quotes here: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pere ... 90097/?s=1

It's far from the attack that the post makes out.
Nope. The article i read clearly states what i said:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/perez-i-wo ... to-anyone/

Your article paints it as a more sympathetic stance but to me the gest of those quotes is that sergio would be in that sauber if he was in the same situation.

Im also assuming that what happened in 2011 wasnt his decision to make.
Fair enough, given the two articles have different quotes and don't include the other one I'd be interested to see the interview, sounds like one of them could be wrong, or perhaps the interview was translated.

Assuming the PF1 quote is correct I agree with mikey though, Sergio's view is understandable but also self centred IMO. He would rather drive and put in a sub par performance because he is not physically up to it than let another driver in his car. That's the best thing for him but not for the team.

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Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by kleefton »

mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
huggybear wrote:
kleefton wrote:Now Sergio Perez has come out and said that he would never let another driver in his seat and he would have toughened it out.
Like he did in Canada that time after his shunt in Monaco? Checo's a bit quick to retcon his history to rake someone over the coals.
kleefton's post is misleading. He hasn't attacked Wehrlein's decision as it makes out, he said that he hopes there's nothing more serious being hidden about Pascal and that he hopes he is back soon. He did say that he would be in the car if it was just a case of not being 100% fit and that driving would be the best way to up his fitness but that was to make his point about it possibly being something more serious, he also acknowledged everyone is different.

He also didn't say he "would never let another driver in his seat" the actual quote is:
I don't want to let another driver take my place.
Full quotes here: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/pere ... 90097/?s=1

It's far from the attack that the post makes out.
Nope. The article i read clearly states what i said:

http://www.planetf1.com/news/perez-i-wo ... to-anyone/

Your article paints it as a more sympathetic stance but to me the gest of those quotes is that sergio would be in that sauber if he was in the same situation.

Im also assuming that what happened in 2011 wasnt his decision to make.
TBH I'm disappointed in Perez. Basically saying he would rather let his team suffer and compramise their chances of potential points because he would be unwilling to step aside for somebody who was fit. The contrast just shows how selfless Wehrlein is being in giving his team the best chance.
Unfortunately if you want to be selfless this is the wrong sport. One can't help but think there is more to this story than meets the eye. Pascal received medical clearance to race almost a month ago. But we are now at the second race of the season and he still can't race? And a selfless act coming from a guy which reportedly has attitude issues? Not quite buying into that rhetoric to be honest.

mikeyg123
Posts: 17840
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm

Re: Giovinazzi v Pascal

Post by mikeyg123 »

kleefton wrote:
Unfortunately if you want to be selfless this is the wrong sport. One can't help but think there is more to this story than meets the eye. Pascal received medical clearance to race almost a month ago. But we are now at the second race of the season and he still can't race? And a selfless act coming from a guy which reportedly has attitude issues? Not quite buying into that rhetoric to be honest.
I think that's a bit harsh. Choosing not to think the best of someone because you've heard their attitude might not be the best. Perhaps he is trying to improve his general attitude and that is what is making him act so selflessly?

Here's what his boss has to say - "I feel for Pascal, because he has had all the bad luck,"

"I'm impressed with the maturity he has shown to inform Sauber that he wouldn't be able to perform at the level required in Melbourne.

"That took courage and selflessness, which I know earned him a lot of credit within the team."

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