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mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:I wouldn't be at all surprised to wake up tomorrow to the news that Alonso is leaving McLaren and joining Mercedes mid season.

I don't understand why there is that feeling that Alonso can just walk into any team?

Because he has the reputation of being one of the best drivers around?

That doesn't necessarily mean that he can walk into teams that already have a tier 1 driver, did Red Bull and Ferrari want the best driver available when Hamilton was on the market?

Red Bull only promote from within. I don't think anyone is suggesting that as a potential destination for Alonso and when Hamilton was last on the market Ferrari already had a better driver - although I think they should have gone in for Hamilton, the situation is not the same with Mercedes who could actually upgrade with Hamilton.

Another reason Mercedes may decide to pursue Alonso is that it gives them security if Hamilton does a Rosberg or even follows through at any point on behaviour like quitting the team after the Spanish GP last year. Hamilton has already given Mercedes cause to worry he may suddenly walk a way. A few which will not be helped by Rosberg suddenly quitting.

moby wrote:Anyway, apart from all above, Alonso has a contract with Mclaren Honda, and if he walks, ALL the other teams are bound by the contracts board and will not and can not take him. Unless he is "released" which is not going to happen

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Black_Flag_11 wrote:I wouldn't be at all surprised to wake up tomorrow to the news that Alonso is leaving McLaren and joining Mercedes mid season.

I don't understand why there is that feeling that Alonso can just walk into any team?

Because he has the reputation of being one of the best drivers around?

That doesn't necessarily mean that he can walk into teams that already have a tier 1 driver, did Red Bull and Ferrari want the best driver available when Hamilton was on the market?

I don't think anyone is saying it's guaranteed, just that he'd definitely be of interest

pokerman wrote: Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.

pokerman wrote:Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

pokerman wrote:The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

pokerman wrote:Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

pokerman wrote:So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote: I don't understand why there is that feeling that Alonso can just walk into any team?

Because he has the reputation of being one of the best drivers around?

That doesn't necessarily mean that he can walk into teams that already have a tier 1 driver, did Red Bull and Ferrari want the best driver available when Hamilton was on the market?

I don't think anyone is saying it's guaranteed, just that he'd definitely be of interest

I think mikey would disagree?

mikeyg123 wrote:Obviously nothing is a guaranteed. I would be surprised if Mercedes didn't at least talk to an available Alonso. I think he is most likely to end up at Renault.

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.

If you threaten to walk out you can't blame people if they take you seriously. Sure the reason for it happening before is gone but it does give Mercedes an incite into Hamilton's train of thought and shows he is at least willing to consider packing it all in. People can change. I am sure Rosberg was in for the long hall until he wasn't. Hamilton is 32 now. He could easily decide to walk away at the end of this year if he feels he would enjoy himself more doing something else. Signing Alonso would be insurance against that. I agree Alonso being the best driver is just my opinion but it tends to be an opinion shared by quite a few in the paddock - The higher up's in Mercedes could well hold that opinion.

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.

If you threaten to walk out you can't blame people if they take you seriously. Sure the reason for it happening before is gone but it does give Mercedes an incite into Hamilton's train of thought and shows he is at least willing to consider packing it all in. People can change. I am sure Rosberg was in for the long hall until he wasn't. Hamilton is 32 now. He could easily decide to walk away at the end of this year if he feels he would enjoy himself more doing something else. Signing Alonso would be insurance against that. I agree Alonso being the best driver is just my opinion but it tends to be an opinion shared by quite a few in the paddock - The higher up's in Mercedes could well hold that opinion.

You can't lay all that on Hamilton and give Alonso a free pass when he is the one who actually has walked out on contracts, also there is nothing presently to suggest that Hamilton is unhappy at Mercedes and this threat to leave also seems to be tied into him quitting F1, it's strange how some people seem to believe that Hamilton could quit F1 any time soon and in your case an older driver like Alonso is somehow the better long term prospect.

Hamilton's threat to leave was rescinded after a few days and was related to a specific incident unlike Alonso's ongoing campaign to leave Ferrari. Hamilton is in F1 for the long term and were can he actually go that is better than what he has at Mercedes?

Going forward with Mercedes I believe the 1 year contract for Bottas that was previously offered to Rosberg, is there because they are targeting Vettel for 2018, him being German is important, that's also why they first tried to get Hulkenberg to replace Rosberg.

Regarding Alonso signing for Mercedes alongside Hamilton for 2018, you do realise that Mercedes had to live through the 2007 season and do you think they would even contemplate any kind of repeat?

There are rumours that the Mercedes board have long memories and were very much involved with Alonso's sacking/mutual separation whichever way we want to sugar coat it.

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

He was at least as much responsible for any problems with Rosberg as Rosberg was, so let's not portray him as some kind of victim. And there's not an awful lot of difference between threatening and doing, except in the execution. I'd agree Alonso is not the model of stability, but neither is Lewis, who seems to thrive on drama,

pokerman wrote:The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

that's what many thought about him at McLaren? Nothing's set in stone

pokerman wrote:Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

Agree it's all opinion. That's all these discussions are and no-one's claiming any inside knowledge. I don't think the McLaren example is apt because it wasn't a case of letting him go - they had the mother of all fall-outs.

pokerman wrote:So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.

You're right, it can cause problems and I agree pairing Hamilton with pretty much any driver who will be a threat to him is almost guaranteed to cause problems. However, there's no denying he has threatened to leave (and, I believe, hinted at it when it all blew up yet again at the end of last year) and it's entirely possible that Mercedes may decide that they don't want to be in a position where they are at his mercy again and look to securing a driver who could mitigate any loss. It's not guaranteed but neither is it unlikely

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote: Because he has the reputation of being one of the best drivers around?

That doesn't necessarily mean that he can walk into teams that already have a tier 1 driver, did Red Bull and Ferrari want the best driver available when Hamilton was on the market?

I don't think anyone is saying it's guaranteed, just that he'd definitely be of interest

I think mikey would disagree?

I don't think he's said it would be guaranteed?

mikeyg123 wrote:Obviously nothing is a guaranteed. I would be surprised if Mercedes didn't at least talk to an available Alonso. I think he is most likely to end up at Renault.

moby wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:Obviously nothing is a guaranteed. I would be surprised if Mercedes didn't at least talk to an available Alonso. I think he is most likely to end up at Renault.

I think he is more likely to go back to Ferrari myself. They liked eachother as did the Italian press

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.

If you threaten to walk out you can't blame people if they take you seriously. Sure the reason for it happening before is gone but it does give Mercedes an incite into Hamilton's train of thought and shows he is at least willing to consider packing it all in. People can change. I am sure Rosberg was in for the long hall until he wasn't. Hamilton is 32 now. He could easily decide to walk away at the end of this year if he feels he would enjoy himself more doing something else. Signing Alonso would be insurance against that. I agree Alonso being the best driver is just my opinion but it tends to be an opinion shared by quite a few in the paddock - The higher up's in Mercedes could well hold that opinion.

You can't lay all that on Hamilton and give Alonso a free pass when he is the one who actually has walked out on contracts, also there is nothing presently to suggest that Hamilton is unhappy at Mercedes and this threat to leave also seems to be tied into him quitting F1, it's strange how some people seem to believe that Hamilton could quit F1 any time soon and in your case an older driver like Alonso is somehow the better long term prospect.

Hamilton's threat to leave was rescinded after a few days and was related to a specific incident unlike Alonso's ongoing campaign to leave Ferrari. Hamilton is in F1 for the long term and were can he actually go that is better than what he has at Mercedes?

Going forward with Mercedes I believe the 1 year contract for Bottas that was previously offered to Rosberg, is there because they are targeting Vettel for 2018, him being German is important, that's also why they first tried to get Hulkenberg to replace Rosberg.

Regarding Alonso signing for Mercedes alongside Hamilton for 2018, you do realise that Mercedes had to live through the 2007 season and do you think they would even contemplate any kind of repeat?

There are rumours that the Mercedes board have long memories and were very much involved with Alonso's sacking/mutual separation whichever way we want to sugar coat it.

well if you think it's a sacking why are you portraying it as him walking out elsewhere in your posts? You seem to want to have it both ways?

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

He was at least as much responsible for any problems with Rosberg as Rosberg was, so let's not portray him as some kind of victim. And there's not an awful lot of difference between threatening and doing, except in the execution. I'd agree Alonso is not the model of stability, but neither is Lewis, who seems to thrive on drama,

pokerman wrote:The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

that's what many thought about him at McLaren? Nothing's set in stone

pokerman wrote:Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

Agree it's all opinion. That's all these discussions are and no-one's claiming any inside knowledge. I don't think the McLaren example is apt because it wasn't a case of letting him go - they had the mother of all fall-outs.

pokerman wrote:So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.

You're right, it can cause problems and I agree pairing Hamilton with pretty much any driver who will be a threat to him is almost guaranteed to cause problems. However, there's no denying he has threatened to leave (and, I believe, hinted at it when it all blew up yet again at the end of last year) and it's entirely possible that Mercedes may decide that they don't want to be in a position where they are at his mercy again and look to securing a driver who could mitigate any loss. It's not guaranteed but neither is it unlikely

Still you want to lay off more on Hamilton than Alonso, Alonso does not have a good history with drivers that he sees as a threat, he is also use to having things his own way in respect to teammates and has been openly critical of every team that he has driven for be it Renault, Ferrari and McLaren, Mercedes would not be signing a driver with a calming cohesive influence if things start to go wrong.

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.

If you threaten to walk out you can't blame people if they take you seriously. Sure the reason for it happening before is gone but it does give Mercedes an incite into Hamilton's train of thought and shows he is at least willing to consider packing it all in. People can change. I am sure Rosberg was in for the long hall until he wasn't. Hamilton is 32 now. He could easily decide to walk away at the end of this year if he feels he would enjoy himself more doing something else. Signing Alonso would be insurance against that. I agree Alonso being the best driver is just my opinion but it tends to be an opinion shared by quite a few in the paddock - The higher up's in Mercedes could well hold that opinion.

You can't lay all that on Hamilton and give Alonso a free pass when he is the one who actually has walked out on contracts, also there is nothing presently to suggest that Hamilton is unhappy at Mercedes and this threat to leave also seems to be tied into him quitting F1, it's strange how some people seem to believe that Hamilton could quit F1 any time soon and in your case an older driver like Alonso is somehow the better long term prospect.

Hamilton's threat to leave was rescinded after a few days and was related to a specific incident unlike Alonso's ongoing campaign to leave Ferrari. Hamilton is in F1 for the long term and were can he actually go that is better than what he has at Mercedes?

Going forward with Mercedes I believe the 1 year contract for Bottas that was previously offered to Rosberg, is there because they are targeting Vettel for 2018, him being German is important, that's also why they first tried to get Hulkenberg to replace Rosberg.

Regarding Alonso signing for Mercedes alongside Hamilton for 2018, you do realise that Mercedes had to live through the 2007 season and do you think they would even contemplate any kind of repeat?

There are rumours that the Mercedes board have long memories and were very much involved with Alonso's sacking/mutual separation whichever way we want to sugar coat it.

well if you think it's a sacking why are you portraying it as him walking out elsewhere in your posts? You seem to want to have it both ways?

Maybe because not that long back Gary Paffett said that Alonso was sacked.

pokerman wrote: Then why question my post when I said that Alonso can not simply just walk into any team?

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

pokerman wrote: That doesn't necessarily mean that he can walk into teams that already have a tier 1 driver, did Red Bull and Ferrari want the best driver available when Hamilton was on the market?

I don't think anyone is saying it's guaranteed, just that he'd definitely be of interest

I think mikey would disagree?

I don't think he's said it would be guaranteed?

Then why question my post when I said that Alonso can not simply just walk into any team?

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Then why question my post when I said that Alonso can not simply just walk into any team?

Because you don't know he can't? IMO he probably can.

Pullrod wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:

pokerman wrote: Then why question my post when I said that Alonso can not simply just walk into any team?

Because you don't know he can't? IMO he probably can.

Delusion of grandeur is never good. With that attitude why would German bosses want anything to do with Alonso?
Alonso "could" drive for Mercedes ONLY if Hamilton decides to leave and Vettel is unavailable. He certainly will not be first choice.

I am sorry for you but he said the same thing in 2014 and it was all BS.

• Vettel and Hamilton look like the 2 main guys for the championship so they're out (unless team-driver relations broke down suddenly and catastrophically)
• Bottas impressed and looks at very least ideal backup and a calm teammate for Hamilton, so unless he progresses particularly badly I think he's probably out.
• So that that leaves Raikkonen. As much as I like the guy (I'm a long time fan), Australia was disappointing especially compared with tail end of last season (which was perhaps part of the reason why he kept his seat this year). If there is no improvement I could see Ferrari wanting to change things.

• Do Ferrari have something in Raikkonen's contract that means they can terminate it or pay it off cheaply? (maybe a performance clause benchmarked again Vettel)
• And the same (but conversely) with Alonso's contract and McLaren
• Do Ferrari want Alonso back anyway when it might upset what looks like a potentially winning formula with Vettel?
• Does Vettel have a say on his team mate or anything other influence/veto on a potential deal?

shay550 wrote:

"I prefer to be here than in a supermarket in my home town."

Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. Really?It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And yet still managed to equal his team mate. The 2nd best driver of the generation And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver,he did this how? because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, I am pretty sure Alonso was very highly regarded before ever partnering Raikkonen or Button but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore,Obvious before he partnered Alonso and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be.Any evidence of Button's regression? There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatmentWhen? and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true). Because it's absolute rubbish. He almost won the title in probably the 4th fastest car. A minor miracle.

mikeyg123 wrote:
Alonso's just come off a season where he finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. That's a pretty huge achievement yet almost nobody talks about it... Why? Because it's Alonso. People expect it.

Rockie wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:
Alonso's just come off a season where he finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. That's a pretty huge achievement yet almost nobody talks about it... Why? Because it's Alonso. People expect it.

It's this kind of thinking that has left him at the back of the field, after a while people forget about him if Mclaren does not improve.

Also should Mercedes and Ferrari continue to be evenly matched over the season, the talk will be about Vettel and Hamilton.

Alonso is done, the disgrace of bowing out at the bottom is the reason he is still driving hoping Mclaren will get it together!

Pole2Win wrote:The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).

Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver, because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore, and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be. There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatment and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).

LKS1 wrote:

Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver, because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore, and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be. There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatment and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).

I agree with a lot of this, particularly when it comes to '12. Alonso was lucky at the start of the season when the Ferrari was bad, but the top cars fell away one way or another (7 different race winners in the first races). Other factors came into play when the car was very competitive. e.g. tampering with Massa's gearbox/Massa being better in a couple of the last races, but slowed down to help Alonso (from memory).

To a certain extent it reminds me of '05 when Ferrari tyres were rubbish, but Schumi still ended up P3 (again from memory) in the WDC - largely as a result of the US race/farce.

In short, Alonso drove very well in '12 - but its exaggerated for the reasons mentioned above IMO.

Having said this, I've no doubt he would still prove to be one of the best nowadays if given a competitive car.

mcdo wrote:

LKS1 wrote:

Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver, because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore, and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be. There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatment and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).

I agree with a lot of this, particularly when it comes to '12. Alonso was lucky at the start of the season when the Ferrari was bad, but the top cars fell away one way or another (7 different race winners in the first races). Other factors came into play when the car was very competitive. e.g. tampering with Massa's gearbox/Massa being better in a couple of the last races, but slowed down to help Alonso (from memory).

To a certain extent it reminds me of '05 when Ferrari tyres were rubbish, but Schumi still ended up P3 (again from memory) in the WDC - largely as a result of the US race/farce.

In short, Alonso drove very well in '12 - but its exaggerated for the reasons mentioned above IMO.

Having said this, I've no doubt he would still prove to be one of the best nowadays if given a competitive car.

It was the 4th best car. Nothing anyone can say makes a title challenge "lucky" when a guy has driven the 4th best car to within a handful of points of the winning it

LKS1 wrote:

mcdo wrote:

LKS1 wrote:

Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver, because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore, and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be. There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatment and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).

I agree with a lot of this, particularly when it comes to '12. Alonso was lucky at the start of the season when the Ferrari was bad, but the top cars fell away one way or another (7 different race winners in the first races). Other factors came into play when the car was very competitive. e.g. tampering with Massa's gearbox/Massa being better in a couple of the last races, but slowed down to help Alonso (from memory).

To a certain extent it reminds me of '05 when Ferrari tyres were rubbish, but Schumi still ended up P3 (again from memory) in the WDC - largely as a result of the US race/farce.

In short, Alonso drove very well in '12 - but its exaggerated for the reasons mentioned above IMO.

Having said this, I've no doubt he would still prove to be one of the best nowadays if given a competitive car.

It was the 4th best car. Nothing anyone can say makes a title challenge "lucky" when a guy has driven the 4th best car to within a handful of points of the winning it

Not at the end of the season, and you haven't addressed any of the points raised other than insisting that Ferrari was the 4th best car - which it clearly wasn't at the end of the season.

LKS1 wrote:

mcdo wrote:

LKS1 wrote:

Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver, because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore, and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be. There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatment and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).

I agree with a lot of this, particularly when it comes to '12. Alonso was lucky at the start of the season when the Ferrari was bad, but the top cars fell away one way or another (7 different race winners in the first races). Other factors came into play when the car was very competitive. e.g. tampering with Massa's gearbox/Massa being better in a couple of the last races, but slowed down to help Alonso (from memory).

To a certain extent it reminds me of '05 when Ferrari tyres were rubbish, but Schumi still ended up P3 (again from memory) in the WDC - largely as a result of the US race/farce.

In short, Alonso drove very well in '12 - but its exaggerated for the reasons mentioned above IMO.

Having said this, I've no doubt he would still prove to be one of the best nowadays if given a competitive car.

It was the 4th best car. Nothing anyone can say makes a title challenge "lucky" when a guy has driven the 4th best car to within a handful of points of the winning it

Not at the end of the season, and you haven't addressed any of the points raised other than insisting that Ferrari was the 4th best car - which it clearly wasn't at the end of the season.

mikeyg123 wrote:

LKS1 wrote:

mcdo wrote:

LKS1 wrote:

Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver, because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore, and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be. There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatment and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).

I agree with a lot of this, particularly when it comes to '12. Alonso was lucky at the start of the season when the Ferrari was bad, but the top cars fell away one way or another (7 different race winners in the first races). Other factors came into play when the car was very competitive. e.g. tampering with Massa's gearbox/Massa being better in a couple of the last races, but slowed down to help Alonso (from memory).

To a certain extent it reminds me of '05 when Ferrari tyres were rubbish, but Schumi still ended up P3 (again from memory) in the WDC - largely as a result of the US race/farce.

In short, Alonso drove very well in '12 - but its exaggerated for the reasons mentioned above IMO.

Having said this, I've no doubt he would still prove to be one of the best nowadays if given a competitive car.

It was the 4th best car. Nothing anyone can say makes a title challenge "lucky" when a guy has driven the 4th best car to within a handful of points of the winning it

Not at the end of the season, and you haven't addressed any of the points raised other than insisting that Ferrari was the 4th best car - which it clearly wasn't at the end of the season.

At the end of the season it was the 5th best car.

Zoue wrote:So Ted K seemed fairly adamant that Mercedes would not consider Alonso while Lewis is there. Said it like he knew it, rather than he guessed it. So question is: is that driven by Merc, or Lewis?

Lewis wrote: “It’s not going to happen,” said Hamilton. “Valtteri is fantastic here at the team. He was very, very fast at the last race. He has obviously got a lot of potential and a lot of growth to go, but it is all about finding the right balance in the team. So far Valtteri and I have a great balance and the scales weigh up nicely.

“If you have got two kilos on either side, and then take the two kilos off and put four on, what is the point? You need the balance.”

Lotus49 wrote:

Zoue wrote:So Ted K seemed fairly adamant that Mercedes would not consider Alonso while Lewis is there. Said it like he knew it, rather than he guessed it. So question is: is that driven by Merc, or Lewis?

Dunno about who but Lewis is pretty adamant it's not going to happen. I'm guessing Ted just read this..http://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/20 ... -mercedes/

Lewis wrote: “It’s not going to happen,” said Hamilton. “Valtteri is fantastic here at the team. He was very, very fast at the last race. He has obviously got a lot of potential and a lot of growth to go, but it is all about finding the right balance in the team. So far Valtteri and I have a great balance and the scales weigh up nicely.

“If you have got two kilos on either side, and then take the two kilos off and put four on, what is the point? You need the balance.”

I think he just called Nando fat. Shots fired.