Is Alonso going to quit?

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How Long has Alonso got left?

Less than a year
12
18%
1 year
9
13%
Up to 2 years
17
25%
Up to 3 years
18
26%
Up to 5 years
9
13%
Up to 10 years?
3
4%
 
Total votes: 68

pokerman
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:I wouldn't be at all surprised to wake up tomorrow to the news that Alonso is leaving McLaren and joining Mercedes mid season.
I don't understand why there is that feeling that Alonso can just walk into any team?
Because he has the reputation of being one of the best drivers around?
That doesn't necessarily mean that he can walk into teams that already have a tier 1 driver, did Red Bull and Ferrari want the best driver available when Hamilton was on the market?
Red Bull only promote from within. I don't think anyone is suggesting that as a potential destination for Alonso and when Hamilton was last on the market Ferrari already had a better driver - although I think they should have gone in for Hamilton, the situation is not the same with Mercedes who could actually upgrade with Hamilton.

Another reason Mercedes may decide to pursue Alonso is that it gives them security if Hamilton does a Rosberg or even follows through at any point on behaviour like quitting the team after the Spanish GP last year. Hamilton has already given Mercedes cause to worry he may suddenly walk a way. A few which will not be helped by Rosberg suddenly quitting.
Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.
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pokerman
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by pokerman »

moby wrote:Anyway, apart from all above, Alonso has a contract with Mclaren Honda, and if he walks, ALL the other teams are bound by the contracts board and will not and can not take him. Unless he is "released" which is not going to happen
I believe we are all talking about 2018?
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pokerman
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:I wouldn't be at all surprised to wake up tomorrow to the news that Alonso is leaving McLaren and joining Mercedes mid season.
I don't understand why there is that feeling that Alonso can just walk into any team?
Because he has the reputation of being one of the best drivers around?
That doesn't necessarily mean that he can walk into teams that already have a tier 1 driver, did Red Bull and Ferrari want the best driver available when Hamilton was on the market?
I don't think anyone is saying it's guaranteed, just that he'd definitely be of interest
I think mikey would disagree?
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mikeyg123
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote: Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.
If you threaten to walk out you can't blame people if they take you seriously. Sure the reason for it happening before is gone but it does give Mercedes an incite into Hamilton's train of thought and shows he is at least willing to consider packing it all in. People can change. I am sure Rosberg was in for the long hall until he wasn't. Hamilton is 32 now. He could easily decide to walk away at the end of this year if he feels he would enjoy himself more doing something else. Signing Alonso would be insurance against that. I agree Alonso being the best driver is just my opinion but it tends to be an opinion shared by quite a few in the paddock - The higher up's in Mercedes could well hold that opinion.

Zoue
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.
He was at least as much responsible for any problems with Rosberg as Rosberg was, so let's not portray him as some kind of victim. And there's not an awful lot of difference between threatening and doing, except in the execution. I'd agree Alonso is not the model of stability, but neither is Lewis, who seems to thrive on drama,

pokerman wrote:The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?
that's what many thought about him at McLaren? Nothing's set in stone
pokerman wrote:Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.
Agree it's all opinion. That's all these discussions are and no-one's claiming any inside knowledge. I don't think the McLaren example is apt because it wasn't a case of letting him go - they had the mother of all fall-outs.
pokerman wrote:So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.
You're right, it can cause problems and I agree pairing Hamilton with pretty much any driver who will be a threat to him is almost guaranteed to cause problems. However, there's no denying he has threatened to leave (and, I believe, hinted at it when it all blew up yet again at the end of last year) and it's entirely possible that Mercedes may decide that they don't want to be in a position where they are at his mercy again and look to securing a driver who could mitigate any loss. It's not guaranteed but neither is it unlikely

Zoue
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote: I don't understand why there is that feeling that Alonso can just walk into any team?
Because he has the reputation of being one of the best drivers around?
That doesn't necessarily mean that he can walk into teams that already have a tier 1 driver, did Red Bull and Ferrari want the best driver available when Hamilton was on the market?
I don't think anyone is saying it's guaranteed, just that he'd definitely be of interest
I think mikey would disagree?
I don't think he's said it would be guaranteed?

mikeyg123
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Obviously nothing is a guaranteed. I would be surprised if Mercedes didn't at least talk to an available Alonso. I think he is most likely to end up at Renault.

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moby
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by moby »

mikeyg123 wrote:Obviously nothing is a guaranteed. I would be surprised if Mercedes didn't at least talk to an available Alonso. I think he is most likely to end up at Renault.
I think he is more likely to go back to Ferrari myself. They liked eachother as did the Italian press

pokerman
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.
If you threaten to walk out you can't blame people if they take you seriously. Sure the reason for it happening before is gone but it does give Mercedes an incite into Hamilton's train of thought and shows he is at least willing to consider packing it all in. People can change. I am sure Rosberg was in for the long hall until he wasn't. Hamilton is 32 now. He could easily decide to walk away at the end of this year if he feels he would enjoy himself more doing something else. Signing Alonso would be insurance against that. I agree Alonso being the best driver is just my opinion but it tends to be an opinion shared by quite a few in the paddock - The higher up's in Mercedes could well hold that opinion.
You can't lay all that on Hamilton and give Alonso a free pass when he is the one who actually has walked out on contracts, also there is nothing presently to suggest that Hamilton is unhappy at Mercedes and this threat to leave also seems to be tied into him quitting F1, it's strange how some people seem to believe that Hamilton could quit F1 any time soon and in your case an older driver like Alonso is somehow the better long term prospect.

Hamilton's threat to leave was rescinded after a few days and was related to a specific incident unlike Alonso's ongoing campaign to leave Ferrari. Hamilton is in F1 for the long term and were can he actually go that is better than what he has at Mercedes?

Going forward with Mercedes I believe the 1 year contract for Bottas that was previously offered to Rosberg, is there because they are targeting Vettel for 2018, him being German is important, that's also why they first tried to get Hulkenberg to replace Rosberg.

Regarding Alonso signing for Mercedes alongside Hamilton for 2018, you do realise that Mercedes had to live through the 2007 season and do you think they would even contemplate any kind of repeat?

There are rumours that the Mercedes board have long memories and were very much involved with Alonso's sacking/mutual separation whichever way we want to sugar coat it.
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Zoue
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.
If you threaten to walk out you can't blame people if they take you seriously. Sure the reason for it happening before is gone but it does give Mercedes an incite into Hamilton's train of thought and shows he is at least willing to consider packing it all in. People can change. I am sure Rosberg was in for the long hall until he wasn't. Hamilton is 32 now. He could easily decide to walk away at the end of this year if he feels he would enjoy himself more doing something else. Signing Alonso would be insurance against that. I agree Alonso being the best driver is just my opinion but it tends to be an opinion shared by quite a few in the paddock - The higher up's in Mercedes could well hold that opinion.
You can't lay all that on Hamilton and give Alonso a free pass when he is the one who actually has walked out on contracts, also there is nothing presently to suggest that Hamilton is unhappy at Mercedes and this threat to leave also seems to be tied into him quitting F1, it's strange how some people seem to believe that Hamilton could quit F1 any time soon and in your case an older driver like Alonso is somehow the better long term prospect.

Hamilton's threat to leave was rescinded after a few days and was related to a specific incident unlike Alonso's ongoing campaign to leave Ferrari. Hamilton is in F1 for the long term and were can he actually go that is better than what he has at Mercedes?

Going forward with Mercedes I believe the 1 year contract for Bottas that was previously offered to Rosberg, is there because they are targeting Vettel for 2018, him being German is important, that's also why they first tried to get Hulkenberg to replace Rosberg.

Regarding Alonso signing for Mercedes alongside Hamilton for 2018, you do realise that Mercedes had to live through the 2007 season and do you think they would even contemplate any kind of repeat?

There are rumours that the Mercedes board have long memories and were very much involved with Alonso's sacking/mutual separation whichever way we want to sugar coat it.
well if you think it's a sacking why are you portraying it as him walking out elsewhere in your posts? You seem to want to have it both ways?

pokerman
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.
He was at least as much responsible for any problems with Rosberg as Rosberg was, so let's not portray him as some kind of victim. And there's not an awful lot of difference between threatening and doing, except in the execution. I'd agree Alonso is not the model of stability, but neither is Lewis, who seems to thrive on drama,

pokerman wrote:The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?
that's what many thought about him at McLaren? Nothing's set in stone
pokerman wrote:Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.
Agree it's all opinion. That's all these discussions are and no-one's claiming any inside knowledge. I don't think the McLaren example is apt because it wasn't a case of letting him go - they had the mother of all fall-outs.
pokerman wrote:So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.
You're right, it can cause problems and I agree pairing Hamilton with pretty much any driver who will be a threat to him is almost guaranteed to cause problems. However, there's no denying he has threatened to leave (and, I believe, hinted at it when it all blew up yet again at the end of last year) and it's entirely possible that Mercedes may decide that they don't want to be in a position where they are at his mercy again and look to securing a driver who could mitigate any loss. It's not guaranteed but neither is it unlikely
Still you want to lay off more on Hamilton than Alonso, Alonso does not have a good history with drivers that he sees as a threat, he is also use to having things his own way in respect to teammates and has been openly critical of every team that he has driven for be it Renault, Ferrari and McLaren, Mercedes would not be signing a driver with a calming cohesive influence if things start to go wrong.
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pokerman
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote: Because he has the reputation of being one of the best drivers around?
That doesn't necessarily mean that he can walk into teams that already have a tier 1 driver, did Red Bull and Ferrari want the best driver available when Hamilton was on the market?
I don't think anyone is saying it's guaranteed, just that he'd definitely be of interest
I think mikey would disagree?
I don't think he's said it would be guaranteed?
Then why question my post when I said that Alonso can not simply just walk into any team?
Last edited by pokerman on Sat Apr 01, 2017 12:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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pokerman
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:Obviously nothing is a guaranteed. I would be surprised if Mercedes didn't at least talk to an available Alonso. I think he is most likely to end up at Renault.
Probably after being approached first, I'm sure he would be given that respect.
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pokerman
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by pokerman »

moby wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Obviously nothing is a guaranteed. I would be surprised if Mercedes didn't at least talk to an available Alonso. I think he is most likely to end up at Renault.
I think he is more likely to go back to Ferrari myself. They liked eachother as did the Italian press
I would say not a chance in hell whilst Vettel is still there.
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pokerman
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.
If you threaten to walk out you can't blame people if they take you seriously. Sure the reason for it happening before is gone but it does give Mercedes an incite into Hamilton's train of thought and shows he is at least willing to consider packing it all in. People can change. I am sure Rosberg was in for the long hall until he wasn't. Hamilton is 32 now. He could easily decide to walk away at the end of this year if he feels he would enjoy himself more doing something else. Signing Alonso would be insurance against that. I agree Alonso being the best driver is just my opinion but it tends to be an opinion shared by quite a few in the paddock - The higher up's in Mercedes could well hold that opinion.
You can't lay all that on Hamilton and give Alonso a free pass when he is the one who actually has walked out on contracts, also there is nothing presently to suggest that Hamilton is unhappy at Mercedes and this threat to leave also seems to be tied into him quitting F1, it's strange how some people seem to believe that Hamilton could quit F1 any time soon and in your case an older driver like Alonso is somehow the better long term prospect.

Hamilton's threat to leave was rescinded after a few days and was related to a specific incident unlike Alonso's ongoing campaign to leave Ferrari. Hamilton is in F1 for the long term and were can he actually go that is better than what he has at Mercedes?

Going forward with Mercedes I believe the 1 year contract for Bottas that was previously offered to Rosberg, is there because they are targeting Vettel for 2018, him being German is important, that's also why they first tried to get Hulkenberg to replace Rosberg.

Regarding Alonso signing for Mercedes alongside Hamilton for 2018, you do realise that Mercedes had to live through the 2007 season and do you think they would even contemplate any kind of repeat?

There are rumours that the Mercedes board have long memories and were very much involved with Alonso's sacking/mutual separation whichever way we want to sugar coat it.
well if you think it's a sacking why are you portraying it as him walking out elsewhere in your posts? You seem to want to have it both ways?
Maybe because not that long back Gary Paffett said that Alonso was sacked.
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Zoue
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.
He was at least as much responsible for any problems with Rosberg as Rosberg was, so let's not portray him as some kind of victim. And there's not an awful lot of difference between threatening and doing, except in the execution. I'd agree Alonso is not the model of stability, but neither is Lewis, who seems to thrive on drama,

pokerman wrote:The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?
that's what many thought about him at McLaren? Nothing's set in stone
pokerman wrote:Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.
Agree it's all opinion. That's all these discussions are and no-one's claiming any inside knowledge. I don't think the McLaren example is apt because it wasn't a case of letting him go - they had the mother of all fall-outs.
pokerman wrote:So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.
You're right, it can cause problems and I agree pairing Hamilton with pretty much any driver who will be a threat to him is almost guaranteed to cause problems. However, there's no denying he has threatened to leave (and, I believe, hinted at it when it all blew up yet again at the end of last year) and it's entirely possible that Mercedes may decide that they don't want to be in a position where they are at his mercy again and look to securing a driver who could mitigate any loss. It's not guaranteed but neither is it unlikely
Still you want to lay off more on Hamilton than Alonso, Alonso does not have a good history with drivers that he sees as a threat, he is also use to having things his own way in respect to teammates and has been openly critical of every team that he has driven for be it Renault, Ferrari and McLaren, Mercedes would not be signing a driver with a calming cohesive influence if things start to go wrong.
where have I laid more off on Hamilton? Can you please point it out?

Both I think will be a management headache in any competitive team where their team mate challenges them. Everything you've said about Alonso as regards temperament could equally apply to Hamilton. But at the end of the day both are among the top drivers in F1 and a team may decide that having both getting the maximum out of the car may outweigh the management disadvantages.

The initial debate started with you asking why anyone would think top teams would want Alonso. In a situation like we've had for the last three years, Mercedes wouldn't have needed him. But if things are going to get more competitive, then that might change. You saw the way Mercedes' position changed at the end of last year when Rosberg surprised everyone by handing his notice in. All of a sudden they became much more conciliatory towards Lewis and backed down from any kind of confrontation. They may decide they don't want to be in that position again and have two top drivers so losing one has less impact.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Hamilton only threatened to walk out on Mercedes because of problems he was having with Rosberg who is no longer there, also there is a difference between threatening and doing, Hamilton has never walked out on a contract unlike Alonso at both McLaren and Ferrari so I would take issue with Alonso being the more stable driver if he has problems within a team.

The reality is that Hamilton is in F1 for the long haul and he's never going to leave a team as good as Mercedes, who are going to provide more for him than Mercedes in order to realise his ambitions?

Your opinion of Alonso being an upgrade on Hamilton and I guess any other driver including Vettel is just your opinion, Alonso wasn't such a valuable resource that stopped McLaren from letting him go because they had Hamilton, likewise the same with Ferrari because they had Vettel lined up to replace him, so unless things go pear shaped with either Vettel at Ferrari or Hamilton at Mercedes this coming year I wouldn't be counting on Alonso walking into either of these teams.

So going back to what I said before there is not always the need in a top team to have the very best drivers that are available so long as they have got one of them because having two tier 1 drivers can cause it's own problems, and I think perhaps they don't rate Alonso a cut above the likes of Hamilton and Vettel like you do.
If you threaten to walk out you can't blame people if they take you seriously. Sure the reason for it happening before is gone but it does give Mercedes an incite into Hamilton's train of thought and shows he is at least willing to consider packing it all in. People can change. I am sure Rosberg was in for the long hall until he wasn't. Hamilton is 32 now. He could easily decide to walk away at the end of this year if he feels he would enjoy himself more doing something else. Signing Alonso would be insurance against that. I agree Alonso being the best driver is just my opinion but it tends to be an opinion shared by quite a few in the paddock - The higher up's in Mercedes could well hold that opinion.
You can't lay all that on Hamilton and give Alonso a free pass when he is the one who actually has walked out on contracts, also there is nothing presently to suggest that Hamilton is unhappy at Mercedes and this threat to leave also seems to be tied into him quitting F1, it's strange how some people seem to believe that Hamilton could quit F1 any time soon and in your case an older driver like Alonso is somehow the better long term prospect.

Hamilton's threat to leave was rescinded after a few days and was related to a specific incident unlike Alonso's ongoing campaign to leave Ferrari. Hamilton is in F1 for the long term and were can he actually go that is better than what he has at Mercedes?

Going forward with Mercedes I believe the 1 year contract for Bottas that was previously offered to Rosberg, is there because they are targeting Vettel for 2018, him being German is important, that's also why they first tried to get Hulkenberg to replace Rosberg.

Regarding Alonso signing for Mercedes alongside Hamilton for 2018, you do realise that Mercedes had to live through the 2007 season and do you think they would even contemplate any kind of repeat?

There are rumours that the Mercedes board have long memories and were very much involved with Alonso's sacking/mutual separation whichever way we want to sugar coat it.
well if you think it's a sacking why are you portraying it as him walking out elsewhere in your posts? You seem to want to have it both ways?
Maybe because not that long back Gary Paffett said that Alonso was sacked.
I know. But if he was sacked then he didn't walk out of McLaren, did he?

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote: Then why question my post when I said that Alonso can not simply just walk into any team?
Because you don't know he can't? IMO he probably can.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote: That doesn't necessarily mean that he can walk into teams that already have a tier 1 driver, did Red Bull and Ferrari want the best driver available when Hamilton was on the market?
I don't think anyone is saying it's guaranteed, just that he'd definitely be of interest
I think mikey would disagree?
I don't think he's said it would be guaranteed?
Then why question my post when I said that Alonso can not simply just walk into any team?
I didn't think you meant that he could just tell a team that he could just turn up at any team, without them having a say in it. Nobody's ever said that, after all, which makes it a bit of a strawman. I assumed you meant that teams wouldn't bend over backwards to get him on, which is what most people have been saying.

If your point was the former, then I'd have to ask why you made it, since no-one's ever argued that?

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Pullrod »

mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Then why question my post when I said that Alonso can not simply just walk into any team?
Because you don't know he can't? IMO he probably can.
Delusion of grandeur is never good. With that attitude why would German bosses want anything to do with Alonso?
Alonso "could" drive for Mercedes ONLY if Hamilton decides to leave and Vettel is unavailable. He certainly will not be first choice.

I am sorry for you but he said the same thing in 2014 and it was all BS.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Pullrod wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Then why question my post when I said that Alonso can not simply just walk into any team?
Because you don't know he can't? IMO he probably can.
Delusion of grandeur is never good. With that attitude why would German bosses want anything to do with Alonso?
Alonso "could" drive for Mercedes ONLY if Hamilton decides to leave and Vettel is unavailable. He certainly will not be first choice.

I am sorry for you but he said the same thing in 2014 and it was all BS.
I am sorry. I don't understand your post? What attitude from Alonso would specifically a German boss not want anything to do with?

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by wolfticket »

When someone make an outright denial of something there is no clear evidence for I try to avoid the classic fallacy of "no smoke without fire":
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39512157

However, it did get me thinking hypothetically what (albeit unlikely) scenario would prompt a mid season move (so taking this thread as quiting McLaren rather than F1).

I think for Alonso would have to be to a team that could potentially win races and the championship as we speak rather than looking to the future (I'm sure he's totally fed up with doing that :) ), so unless Red Bull pull something out of the bag that narrows it down to Ferrari and Mercedes:
  • Vettel and Hamilton look like the 2 main guys for the championship so they're out (unless team-driver relations broke down suddenly and catastrophically)
  • Bottas impressed and looks at very least ideal backup and a calm teammate for Hamilton, so unless he progresses particularly badly I think he's probably out.
  • So that that leaves Raikkonen. As much as I like the guy (I'm a long time fan), Australia was disappointing especially compared with tail end of last season (which was perhaps part of the reason why he kept his seat this year). If there is no improvement I could see Ferrari wanting to change things.
So I think that is the only seat that would be a possible option for any sort of mid season change in the top two teams.

I think some the main issues (and there are a lot of big ones) would be:
  • Do Ferrari have something in Raikkonen's contract that means they can terminate it or pay it off cheaply? (maybe a performance clause benchmarked again Vettel)
  • And the same (but conversely) with Alonso's contract and McLaren
  • Do Ferrari want Alonso back anyway when it might upset what looks like a potentially winning formula with Vettel?
  • Does Vettel have a say on his team mate or anything other influence/veto on a potential deal?
For the record I think it's super unlikely that anything like this will happen. I just thought it was interesting work through the options.
...However, I do think that IF Ferrari spoke to Alonso early this season and said they were ditching Raikkonen and we want you back within the next couple of races he'd very likely take the deal if it was possible given his McLaren contract.
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by shay550 »

Image

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Robot
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Robot »

shay550 wrote:Image

"I prefer to be here than in a supermarket in my home town."

I don't think he was talking about Nico, he is saying that he rather keep driving in F1 than go back to a "mundane" and normal life, even if he does resistance is never going to be as busy as F1.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mikeyg123 »

What I've been saying for ages. Alonso loves being an F1 driver. Sure, he'd rather be a competitive F1 driver but for Alonso driving at the back in F1 is better than not being there at all.

He won't quit this year or next.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Pole2Win »

Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver, because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore, and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be. There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatment and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. Really?It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And yet still managed to equal his team mate. The 2nd best driver of the generation And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver,he did this how? because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, I am pretty sure Alonso was very highly regarded before ever partnering Raikkonen or Button but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore,Obvious before he partnered Alonso and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be.Any evidence of Button's regression? There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatmentWhen? and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true). Because it's absolute rubbish. He almost won the title in probably the 4th fastest car. A minor miracle.
Alonso's just come off a season where he finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. That's a pretty huge achievement yet almost nobody talks about it... Why? Because it's Alonso. People expect it.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Rockie »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Alonso's just come off a season where he finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. That's a pretty huge achievement yet almost nobody talks about it... Why? Because it's Alonso. People expect it.
It's this kind of thinking that has left him at the back of the field, after a while people forget about him if Mclaren does not improve.

Also should Mercedes and Ferrari continue to be evenly matched over the season, the talk will be about Vettel and Hamilton.

Alonso is done, the disgrace of bowing out at the bottom is the reason he is still driving hoping Mclaren will get it together!

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mcdo »

Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Alonso's just come off a season where he finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. That's a pretty huge achievement yet almost nobody talks about it... Why? Because it's Alonso. People expect it.
It's this kind of thinking that has left him at the back of the field, after a while people forget about him if Mclaren does not improve.

Also should Mercedes and Ferrari continue to be evenly matched over the season, the talk will be about Vettel and Hamilton.

Alonso is done, the disgrace of bowing out at the bottom is the reason he is still driving hoping Mclaren will get it together!
Don't ever change :lol:
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mcdo »

Pole2Win wrote:The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).
Most of your post was absolute rubbish but if ever there was one thing that isn't true it's this
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by LKS1 »

Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver, because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore, and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be. There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatment and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).
I agree with a lot of this, particularly when it comes to '12. Alonso was lucky at the start of the season when the Ferrari was bad, but the top cars fell away one way or another (7 different race winners in the first races). Other factors came into play when the car was very competitive. e.g. tampering with Massa's gearbox/Massa being better in a couple of the last races, but slowed down to help Alonso (from memory).

To a certain extent it reminds me of '05 when Ferrari tyres were rubbish, but Schumi still ended up P3 (again from memory) in the WDC - largely as a result of the US race/farce.

In short, Alonso drove very well in '12 - but its exaggerated for the reasons mentioned above IMO.

Having said this, I've no doubt he would still prove to be one of the best nowadays if given a competitive car.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mcdo »

LKS1 wrote:
Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver, because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore, and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be. There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatment and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).
I agree with a lot of this, particularly when it comes to '12. Alonso was lucky at the start of the season when the Ferrari was bad, but the top cars fell away one way or another (7 different race winners in the first races). Other factors came into play when the car was very competitive. e.g. tampering with Massa's gearbox/Massa being better in a couple of the last races, but slowed down to help Alonso (from memory).

To a certain extent it reminds me of '05 when Ferrari tyres were rubbish, but Schumi still ended up P3 (again from memory) in the WDC - largely as a result of the US race/farce.

In short, Alonso drove very well in '12 - but its exaggerated for the reasons mentioned above IMO.

Having said this, I've no doubt he would still prove to be one of the best nowadays if given a competitive car.
It was the 4th best car. Nothing anyone can say makes a title challenge "lucky" when a guy has driven the 4th best car to within a handful of points of the winning it
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by LKS1 »

mcdo wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver, because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore, and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be. There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatment and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).
I agree with a lot of this, particularly when it comes to '12. Alonso was lucky at the start of the season when the Ferrari was bad, but the top cars fell away one way or another (7 different race winners in the first races). Other factors came into play when the car was very competitive. e.g. tampering with Massa's gearbox/Massa being better in a couple of the last races, but slowed down to help Alonso (from memory).

To a certain extent it reminds me of '05 when Ferrari tyres were rubbish, but Schumi still ended up P3 (again from memory) in the WDC - largely as a result of the US race/farce.

In short, Alonso drove very well in '12 - but its exaggerated for the reasons mentioned above IMO.

Having said this, I've no doubt he would still prove to be one of the best nowadays if given a competitive car.
It was the 4th best car. Nothing anyone can say makes a title challenge "lucky" when a guy has driven the 4th best car to within a handful of points of the winning it
Not at the end of the season, and you haven't addressed any of the points raised other than insisting that Ferrari was the 4th best car - which it clearly wasn't at the end of the season.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mikeyg123 »

LKS1 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver, because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore, and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be. There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatment and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).
I agree with a lot of this, particularly when it comes to '12. Alonso was lucky at the start of the season when the Ferrari was bad, but the top cars fell away one way or another (7 different race winners in the first races). Other factors came into play when the car was very competitive. e.g. tampering with Massa's gearbox/Massa being better in a couple of the last races, but slowed down to help Alonso (from memory).

To a certain extent it reminds me of '05 when Ferrari tyres were rubbish, but Schumi still ended up P3 (again from memory) in the WDC - largely as a result of the US race/farce.

In short, Alonso drove very well in '12 - but its exaggerated for the reasons mentioned above IMO.

Having said this, I've no doubt he would still prove to be one of the best nowadays if given a competitive car.
It was the 4th best car. Nothing anyone can say makes a title challenge "lucky" when a guy has driven the 4th best car to within a handful of points of the winning it
Not at the end of the season, and you haven't addressed any of the points raised other than insisting that Ferrari was the 4th best car - which it clearly wasn't at the end of the season.
At the end of the season it was the 5th best car.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Lotus49 »

LKS1 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver, because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore, and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be. There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatment and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).
I agree with a lot of this, particularly when it comes to '12. Alonso was lucky at the start of the season when the Ferrari was bad, but the top cars fell away one way or another (7 different race winners in the first races). Other factors came into play when the car was very competitive. e.g. tampering with Massa's gearbox/Massa being better in a couple of the last races, but slowed down to help Alonso (from memory).

To a certain extent it reminds me of '05 when Ferrari tyres were rubbish, but Schumi still ended up P3 (again from memory) in the WDC - largely as a result of the US race/farce.

In short, Alonso drove very well in '12 - but its exaggerated for the reasons mentioned above IMO.

Having said this, I've no doubt he would still prove to be one of the best nowadays if given a competitive car.
It was the 4th best car. Nothing anyone can say makes a title challenge "lucky" when a guy has driven the 4th best car to within a handful of points of the winning it
Not at the end of the season, and you haven't addressed any of the points raised other than insisting that Ferrari was the 4th best car - which it clearly wasn't at the end of the season.
Which of RB,McLaren and Lotus-Renault were worse at seasons end in your opinion?. I can see at least an argument with L-R fwiw, they were poor in Brazil in those tricky conditions but they won AD and Kimi finished no lower than 7th in the run in outside Brazil, RoGro was fighting with Massa most of the run in too so depending on your view of those two maybe.

I think either way there wasn't much there and they had to fight the Lotus so I think the point stands or should be equal 3rd maybe.
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by LKS1 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
Pole2Win wrote:Top teams keep offering seats to Alonso but I doubt they want the turmoil that comes with signing him.

Alonso requires a team that treats him like the king he thinks he is. It's no surprise that he won his two titles with Briatore, who treated him just like that. When he left for McLaren and Ron Dennis adopted a pragmatic approach seeing Hamilton's potential, Alonso quickly lost his mind. And Ron Dennis only did this because he knew he had the stronger pair compared to Ferrari, as he was familiar with Raikkonen and he had seen Massa didn't trouble Schumacher at all, so in his mind he could afford having his drivers go all out without favoring either one.

He also had to force his hand at Ferrari to make himself the favored driver, because the team liked Massa. With Raikkonen he probably didn't need to do that because he already had his clear position in the team and Raikkonen was the one in the weaker position heading into the 2014 season (as he only signed for Ferrari because Lotus-Renault didn't honor his salaries).

People keep rating Alonso due to his performances against Raikkonen and Button, but are they really important when looking at the big picture? Raikkonen is clearly not the driver that set the world ablaze in the 2000s anymore, and Button was already on the tail end of his career when McLaren signed Alonso, and also not the same driver he used to be. There's also the fact Alonso demands favorable treatment and it would be naïve to assume this doesn't have any impact on performance.

I'd like to see what Alonso could do today in a competitive car. The last time he had a shot at the title was in 2012, when he drove well but was also very lucky to be in the position he was (which is something his fans will never admit, but it's true).
I agree with a lot of this, particularly when it comes to '12. Alonso was lucky at the start of the season when the Ferrari was bad, but the top cars fell away one way or another (7 different race winners in the first races). Other factors came into play when the car was very competitive. e.g. tampering with Massa's gearbox/Massa being better in a couple of the last races, but slowed down to help Alonso (from memory).

To a certain extent it reminds me of '05 when Ferrari tyres were rubbish, but Schumi still ended up P3 (again from memory) in the WDC - largely as a result of the US race/farce.

In short, Alonso drove very well in '12 - but its exaggerated for the reasons mentioned above IMO.

Having said this, I've no doubt he would still prove to be one of the best nowadays if given a competitive car.
It was the 4th best car. Nothing anyone can say makes a title challenge "lucky" when a guy has driven the 4th best car to within a handful of points of the winning it
Not at the end of the season, and you haven't addressed any of the points raised other than insisting that Ferrari was the 4th best car - which it clearly wasn't at the end of the season.
At the end of the season it was the 5th best car.
And yet Alonso finished 2nd in Brazil, with Massa 3rd.... 3rd and 4th in the US

Couldn't be bothered to check the other races at the end of the season.

Ocon
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Ocon »

If I was him I would have left at the end of last season, why suffer another year of this when he could have gone to a different motorsport and actually have fun racing in a competetive car.

I think it's very unlikely for him to get a top seat again, the chances of him leaving F1 are very big I would say.

Zoue
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Zoue »

So Ted K seemed fairly adamant that Mercedes would not consider Alonso while Lewis is there. Said it like he knew it, rather than he guessed it. So question is: is that driven by Merc, or Lewis?

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Lotus49
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Lotus49 »

Zoue wrote:So Ted K seemed fairly adamant that Mercedes would not consider Alonso while Lewis is there. Said it like he knew it, rather than he guessed it. So question is: is that driven by Merc, or Lewis?
Dunno about who but Lewis is pretty adamant it's not going to happen. I'm guessing Ted just read this..http://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/20 ... -mercedes/

Lewis wrote: “It’s not going to happen,” said Hamilton. “Valtteri is fantastic here at the team. He was very, very fast at the last race. He has obviously got a lot of potential and a lot of growth to go, but it is all about finding the right balance in the team. So far Valtteri and I have a great balance and the scales weigh up nicely.

“If you have got two kilos on either side, and then take the two kilos off and put four on, what is the point? You need the balance.”
I think he just called Nando fat. Shots fired. :o
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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moby
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by moby »

Lotus49 wrote:
Zoue wrote:So Ted K seemed fairly adamant that Mercedes would not consider Alonso while Lewis is there. Said it like he knew it, rather than he guessed it. So question is: is that driven by Merc, or Lewis?
Dunno about who but Lewis is pretty adamant it's not going to happen. I'm guessing Ted just read this..http://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/20 ... -mercedes/

Lewis wrote: “It’s not going to happen,” said Hamilton. “Valtteri is fantastic here at the team. He was very, very fast at the last race. He has obviously got a lot of potential and a lot of growth to go, but it is all about finding the right balance in the team. So far Valtteri and I have a great balance and the scales weigh up nicely.

“If you have got two kilos on either side, and then take the two kilos off and put four on, what is the point? You need the balance.”
I think he just called Nando fat. Shots fired. :o
Hmm, Weight or wait

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