Is Alonso going to quit?

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How Long has Alonso got left?

Less than a year
12
18%
1 year
9
13%
Up to 2 years
17
25%
Up to 3 years
18
26%
Up to 5 years
9
13%
Up to 10 years?
3
4%
 
Total votes: 68

pendulumeffect
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Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by pendulumeffect »

If Honda doesn't show much improvement then what is the point of continuing? Another Mercedes or Ferrari drive is probably out of the question and Red Bull only recruit from within now. It's going to take at least another 3 years for McLaren to get back to the front unless they can do a 2009 and turn a stinker of a car into a race winner, except the problem lies in the engine this time. Alonso can't even seem to help McLaren find a decent sponsor. I don't think he is the sponsor magnet he was anymore.

Meanwhile Ferrari might just walk it to a WDC WCC double this year if their performance level is where I think it is. Clearly they haven't forgotten how to make a properly fast car.

Two WDC titles is probably a decent enough haul, a few extra titles would have put Alonso among the greatest drivers but I think he will be remembered well. There is no chance he will re-surpass Hamilton or Vettel but he will be remembered for stopping Schu's streak of titles.

Anyway how long do you think Alonso has left?

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Lotus49
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Lotus49 »

I think he'll have at least one more contract so probably 2 or 3 years. He seems to like these rules and doesn't sound like he's on the verge of quitting any time soon but anything can happen in this game.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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Exediron
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Exediron »

I think he's in until he either wins his 3rd title or becomes uncompetitive; I picked 5 years (possibly wishful thinking), but really it's anyone's guess. I don't think he'll retire this year or the next, though.
pendulumeffect wrote:There is no chance he will re-surpass Hamilton or Vettel but he will be remembered for stopping Schu's streak of titles.
I wouldn't say no chance, but not a very high one. If Mercedes is done being dominant and Hamilton doesn't win this year, that leaves him on three. If McLaren happens to be the next team to get it right, Alonso winning two in the next 3-5 years isn't totally out of the question, just highly unlikely.

Now, that scenario would almost certainly have Vettel winning this year, so overhauling both of them is indeed almost certainly out of the question. But I think Hamilton is still within reach if McLaren and Honda get their act together soon enough.
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Exediron »

I will also say that I think titles have little if any effect on how a driver is perceived by F1 fans. By the general populace maybe that's different, but the majority of F1 fans would rank, just to name a few:

Alonso over Vettel right now (2 > 4)
Senna over Prost (3 > 4)
Clark over Brabham (2 > 3)
Moss > Rosberg (0 > 1)

And the list goes on. Titles are a measure of success, but I think simply getting more of them does little to increase the general perception of a driver as 'great' or not. In my own opinion the greatest driver of all time only got two, so I'd be content for Alonso to join him in that category and certainly wouldn't think less of him for it. That said, I do believe he deserves more, and would be ecstatic if he managed to add that elusive 3rd title.
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Lotus49
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Lotus49 »

Exediron wrote:I will also say that I think titles have little if any effect on how a driver is perceived by F1 fans. By the general populace maybe that's different, but the majority of F1 fans would rank, just to name a few:

Alonso over Vettel right now (2 > 4)
Senna over Prost (3 > 4)
Clark over Brabham (2 > 3)
Moss > Rosberg (0 > 1)

And the list goes on. Titles are a measure of success, but I think simply getting more of them does little to increase the general perception of a driver as 'great' or not. In my own opinion the greatest driver of all time only got two, so I'd be content for Alonso to join him in that category and certainly wouldn't think less of him for it. That said, I do believe he deserves more, and would be ecstatic if he managed to add that elusive 3rd title.
Yeah legacy wise Alonso is fine, toe to toe with Schumi twice and coming out on top assured that. Then you've got 2012 as the cherry. Couple of other near misses outside the best car and some impressive wins against top team mates like Kimi and JB fills it out and he's usually in the conversation for who's the best driver on the grid even when not winning races never mind titles.

His career happened to span 3 sustained periods of dominant cars that swept up 9 or 10 doubles so unless you were in one of those seats the foundation to inflate your stats just wasn't there. When he did have that chance in the first half of 2006 he delivered without much fuss.

I actually don't think if he had a dominant car like the Mercedes of the last couple of years and added a title or 2 and 20 poles/wins it would change anyone's perception of him much. We've seen him in too many different situations,rules,cars,team mates,teams over the past 15 years that I think people's opinion of him are pretty set to be honest, it's not like he's an untested 26yr old.

EDIT: I should add with my last paragraph I mean if he was sitting next to a driver not thought of in the same standard as himself. Obviously if he was sitting next to Seb or Lewis and beat them to 20 poles/wins and 2 titles it would have an effect.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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Invade
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Invade »

Yeh. If Alonso destroyed Seb or Lewis for those extra accolades then we might consider him the "GOAT".

sandman1347
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by sandman1347 »

I'm gonna offer a counter argument here. I don't think anyone questions Alonso's ability as a top driver but I think his reputation has been helped dramatically by not having the best car these last few years. When you have the car to fight for the championship, your successes tend to be written off to the car and your every mistake is magnified by the public. When you don't have the car, your mistakes aren't even noticed and your every success is lauded. Fernando can have a race where he runs off track, spins or even crashes and it will basically be ignored where if someone up front does it, they will be torn apart by the media and fans. Likewise, if Fernando finishes in the points, people will talk about how great he was while Hamilton these last few years and Vettel before that could win race after race and people don't even bat an eyelash.

Basically, Alonso has gotten a free pass to keep his top-tier driver status without actually having to face the pressure of a championship fight in quite a while. Even in those years where he had a dark horse shot at the title, he wasn't under pressure because the Red Bull was the better car and he wasn't expected to win. The last time he was in a car where he was expected to win was 2007 and he left that season with his reputation severely damaged on numerous fronts.

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Invade
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Invade »

Sandman, there's definitely something to that, and it's the reverse for the top guys if the margin to the next best team is very large. During this Merc era of dominance, a lot of the excellence of Hamilton and Rosberg was marginalised and mistakes were often amplified. It's harder to climb higher than already being P1-2.

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Invade
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Invade »

The "masses" eat it up though, and the leading team with its ridiculous advantages yielded such dominance that it caused a laughable amount of casuals to call Hamilton easily the best driver around. Hamilton also still easily wins (IIRC) polls around here on this forum (where more serious fans tend to congregate) regarding being the best driver around.

We also get good but not great teams like Red Bull with standout performers who get lauded hugely, and yet we do not know how they'd deal with the pressure of truly fighting for World Championships. Is Ricciardo as good as many of us think he is? He certainly looked spectacular at times in 2016. How about Verstappen? Many seem to be jumping the gun on him and giving him bonus points based on potential and based on him getting quickly up to speed in a new environment -- I've seen many around the web place him ahead of Ricciardo for 2016 giving him the benefit of the doubt for things like: being a prodigy, acclimatising quickly, assuming that he has more upside. In other words, based on things that are yet to be proven. :uhoh:

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Lotus49
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Lotus49 »

Yeah I'd agree with sandman to an extent too. I think there's always a little trade off there as it's pretty difficult to be in both situations in this sport(To grow reputation and grow stats). I've said before I think a lot of Lewis's recent form has been masked by his car as well.

The bad side to Alonso's recent predicament doesn't end with not being able to compete with stats though. You'd have motivation issues for some top drivers which might make performing to their best standard tricky, they may lose to or under-perform against a team mate. There's also more scope to get involved in scrape's in the pack,you're dealing with drivers not on your level a lot of the time and frustrations about having stints ruined. And let's face it you're driving sub-par cars in the dry and wet instead of the best cars which are easier and more stable to drive so should garner less mistakes.

If he'd failed at any or all of these regularly and not kept his level it would certainly have got attention from the press and fans and hurt his reputation and I think keeping a high level in these instances is what helped his reputation not suffer unduly despite a lack of stats these past few years.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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Invade
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Invade »

Lotus49 wrote:Yeah I'd agree with sandman to an extent too. I think there's always a little trade off there as it's pretty difficult to be in both situations in this sport(To grow reputation and grow stats). I've said before I think a lot of Lewis's recent form has been masked by his car as well.

The bad side to Alonso's recent predicament doesn't end with not being able to compete with stats though. You'd have motivation issues for some top drivers which might make performing to their best standard tricky, they may lose to or under-perform against a team mate. There's also more scope to get involved in scrape's in the pack,you're dealing with drivers not on your level a lot of the time and frustrations about having stints ruined. And let's face it you're driving sub-par cars in the dry and wet instead of the best cars which are easier and more stable to drive so should garner less mistakes.

If he'd failed at any or all of these regularly and not kept his level it would certainly have got attention from the press and fans and hurt his reputation and I think keeping a high level in these instances is what helped his reputation not suffer unduly despite a lack of stats these past few years.
In essence, there's an awful lot of racing to do when one is way back, and there's no hiding from it. Yet, Alonso has consistently proven himself time and time again in his circumstance, and beyond all the others in a similar position. At the same time, we also give him the benefit of the doubt because he's a great world champion and we've seen him produce outstanding seasons several times in the past in very good equipment. An upcoming driver would receive less plaudits doing the same thing as Alonso has done over the last few years, but we'd still notice enough to say: "Who is this guy..., we'd LOVE to see him in one of the best cars!". We'd hesitate to call him the best though, as many do with Alonso -- and that might be right BTW. Alonso might well still be the best we have going on the grid. The sad thing about it is we still can't really find out because McHonda aren't producing.

Obviously, I want McHonda to fix their issues and find a way to become a real force, but it's looking like a longshot. More feasibly then (or maybe it's also a longshot) I hope Mercedes will take a punt on Alonso and pit him against Hamilton for 2018.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by funkymonkey »

In his latest interview Alonso was very clear when he was asked about this. He said he cant quit racing, its in his blood and will be racing even when he is old and grumpy beating kids at the carts. He also said will not quit F1 until he gets a car he thinks he deserves to compete again. That is pretty bold statement and makes it very clear he is not going anywhere. If McLaren does not get their act together this year. He will go somewhere else and continue until he gets competitive car.
And lets not kid ourselves if anyone here thinks he wont get a top seat somewhere else if one becomes available even with likes of Vettel or Hamilton as possible team mate. He will take that seat. And Merc or Ferrari will offer it to him even with another top driver already present in the team.

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Lotus49
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Lotus49 »

funkymonkey wrote:In his latest interview Alonso was very clear when he was asked about this. He said he cant quit racing, its in his blood and will be racing even when he is old and grumpy beating kids at the carts. He also said will not quit F1 until he gets a car he thinks he deserves to compete again. That is pretty bold statement and makes it very clear he is not going anywhere. If McLaren does not get their act together this year. He will go somewhere else and continue until he gets competitive car.
And lets not kid ourselves if anyone here thinks he wont get a top seat somewhere else if one becomes available even with likes of Vettel or Hamilton as possible team mate. He will take that seat. And Merc or Ferrari will offer it to him even with another top driver already present in the team.
I don't see the incentive for Ferrari to kiss and make up if they still have Seb to be honest, but if he left for Mercedes I think it's more than possible though.

I think Mercedes would need some pretty specific circumstances to put up with the headache of partnering Lewis and Alonso together. Bottas costing them the WCC to Red Bull and Seb saying no to be specific. Anything else happens this season and I don't think they bother risking it.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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Invade
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Invade »

Lotus49 wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:In his latest interview Alonso was very clear when he was asked about this. He said he cant quit racing, its in his blood and will be racing even when he is old and grumpy beating kids at the carts. He also said will not quit F1 until he gets a car he thinks he deserves to compete again. That is pretty bold statement and makes it very clear he is not going anywhere. If McLaren does not get their act together this year. He will go somewhere else and continue until he gets competitive car.
And lets not kid ourselves if anyone here thinks he wont get a top seat somewhere else if one becomes available even with likes of Vettel or Hamilton as possible team mate. He will take that seat. And Merc or Ferrari will offer it to him even with another top driver already present in the team.
I don't see the incentive for Ferrari to kiss and make up if they still have Seb to be honest, but if he left for Mercedes I think it's more than possible though.

I think Mercedes would need some pretty specific circumstances to put up with the headache of partnering Lewis and Alonso together. Bottas costing them the WCC to Red Bull and Seb saying no to be specific. Anything else happens this season and I don't think they bother risking it.
Sounds about right. Reckon Vettel would say no to partnering Hamiton? Alonso would say yes in a heartbeat.

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Lotus49
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Lotus49 »

Invade wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:In his latest interview Alonso was very clear when he was asked about this. He said he cant quit racing, its in his blood and will be racing even when he is old and grumpy beating kids at the carts. He also said will not quit F1 until he gets a car he thinks he deserves to compete again. That is pretty bold statement and makes it very clear he is not going anywhere. If McLaren does not get their act together this year. He will go somewhere else and continue until he gets competitive car.
And lets not kid ourselves if anyone here thinks he wont get a top seat somewhere else if one becomes available even with likes of Vettel or Hamilton as possible team mate. He will take that seat. And Merc or Ferrari will offer it to him even with another top driver already present in the team.
I don't see the incentive for Ferrari to kiss and make up if they still have Seb to be honest, but if he left for Mercedes I think it's more than possible though.

I think Mercedes would need some pretty specific circumstances to put up with the headache of partnering Lewis and Alonso together. Bottas costing them the WCC to Red Bull and Seb saying no to be specific. Anything else happens this season and I don't think they bother risking it.
Sounds about right. Reckon Vettel would say no to partnering Hamiton? Alonso would say yes in a heartbeat.
I don't think he would to be honest. I think if he thought Ferrari couldn't challenge it would be his best bet. It's not like he's protecting an undefeated record against team mates if he loses and imo a worse driver than him just won the title in the Merc and anything can happen. Plus these top drivers tend to have a lot of self confidence so I'm sure he'd back himself.

If there were no better alternatives of course. If Ferrari show enough promise I think he'll stay instead.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

sandman1347
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by sandman1347 »

I think Lauda already dismissed the idea of Vettel going to Mercedes. I think one of the RBR drivers or perhaps Pascal would be next in line if Bottas doesn't work out.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Invade »

Deleted a double post.
Last edited by Invade on Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Invade
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Invade »

Lotus49 wrote: I don't think he would to be honest. I think if he thought Ferrari couldn't challenge it would be his best bet. It's not like he's protecting an undefeated record against team mates if he loses and imo a worse driver than him just won the title in the Merc and anything can happen. Plus these top drivers tend to have a lot of self confidence so I'm sure he'd back himself.

If there were no better alternatives of course. If Ferrari show enough promise I think he'll stay instead.
I agree. I think Vettel would take on that challenge.

A lot can change in 2018 and so it's the wrong time for Alonso to drop the ball. He's gotta keep on it and I'm interested to see if Stoffel Vandoorne can keep him honest. Also I have a suspicion that McLaren Honda will be the 4th best team on the grid by the end of the season. Actually, change 'suspicion' to 'blind faith'.

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Lotus49
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Lotus49 »

Invade wrote:
Lotus49 wrote: I don't think he would to be honest. I think if he thought Ferrari couldn't challenge it would be his best bet. It's not like he's protecting an undefeated record against team mates if he loses and imo a worse driver than him just won the title in the Merc and anything can happen. Plus these top drivers tend to have a lot of self confidence so I'm sure he'd back himself.

If there were no better alternatives of course. If Ferrari show enough promise I think he'll stay instead.
I agree. I think Vettel would take on that challenge.

A lot can change in 2018 and so it's the wrong time for Alonso to drop the ball. He's gotta keep on it and I'm interested to see if Stoffel Vandoorne can keep him honest. Also I have a suspicion that McLaren Honda will be the 4th best team on the grid by the end of the season. Actually, change 'suspicion' to 'blind faith'.
Yeah Stoff's very impressive in every situation I've seen him in. I think Alonso's in for a very tough season and he'll need to be firing on all cylinders.

I hope you're right about McHonda but it's a tough call.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Exediron wrote:I will also say that I think titles have little if any effect on how a driver is perceived by F1 fans. By the general populace maybe that's different, but the majority of F1 fans would rank, just to name a few:

Alonso over Vettel right now (2 > 4)
Senna over Prost (3 > 4)
Clark over Brabham (2 > 3)
Moss > Rosberg (0 > 1)

And the list goes on. Titles are a measure of success, but I think simply getting more of them does little to increase the general perception of a driver as 'great' or not. In my own opinion the greatest driver of all time only got two, so I'd be content for Alonso to join him in that category and certainly wouldn't think less of him for it. That said, I do believe he deserves more, and would be ecstatic if he managed to add that elusive 3rd title.
To a point. I would say winning a title Vs not winning one makes a huge difference in perception. Nobody would put Eddie Irvine in the top 50 of all time but everyone would have he won the 99 title. Same would probably apply to Massa.

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moby
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by moby »

This is if Mclaren is still in the doldrums, otherwise all bets are off.

I think he will be coming to the conclusion he does not enjoy it any more at the same time he will get an opportunity to do something else, and will take it.

Be it another form of motor racing, or something else.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by AnRs »

He's not finished with the task at McLaren but it's probably out of his control now..

He's probably done what he can in F1, even if he's never had a dominant car like Vettel or Lewis he's regarded as the best driver by many out there.
It's so much harder to look good without a car with better aero or more hp than everyone else but he's managed to do that IMO.

Probably has no problem with stuff to do either so I give him 1 or 2 years from now on.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Exediron »

mikeyg123 wrote:To a point. I would say winning a title Vs not winning one makes a huge difference in perception. Nobody would put Eddie Irvine in the top 50 of all time but everyone would have he won the 99 title. Same would probably apply to Massa.
World Champion vs. Not World Champion certainly does matter to how drivers are perceived, but what I was saying is that the number of titles is not very important to how world champions are perceived.

Beyond that, I think the difference a world title makes is almost directly inverse to how highly a driver is perceived. A driver like Sterling Moss doesn't need one to be rated with the best, but for the lesser world champions it made all the difference in the world (pardon the pun!). If Alonso had had the same career he's had, minus the world championships, he would be high in the conversation for the best driver never to win the title. If he only had one, he would almost certainly be considered the best single world champion (much as Lewis was until 2014).

Along that line of (admittedly somewhat off topic, but interesting!) reasoning: if Ricciardo were to win the world championship this year, would that change how highly you think of him? He's already almost universally considered one of the best drivers on the grid, but is he lacking something without that title?

For me the answer is mostly no - it wouldn't change my opinion of Ricciardo's place in the grid hierarchy, merely my opinion of his potential legacy. World championships are pretty much all about legacy and career immortality; they will never be forgotten, while the equally good - or better - drivers who never won the world title will be remembered only by the true faithful of the sport.
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:To a point. I would say winning a title Vs not winning one makes a huge difference in perception. Nobody would put Eddie Irvine in the top 50 of all time but everyone would have he won the 99 title. Same would probably apply to Massa.
World Champion vs. Not World Champion certainly does matter to how drivers are perceived, but what I was saying is that the number of titles is not very important to how world champions are perceived.

Beyond that, I think the difference a world title makes is almost directly inverse to how highly a driver is perceived. A driver like Sterling Moss doesn't need one to be rated with the best, but for the lesser world champions it made all the difference in the world (pardon the pun!). If Alonso had had the same career he's had, minus the world championships, he would be high in the conversation for the best driver never to win the title. If he only had one, he would almost certainly be considered the best single world champion (much as Lewis was until 2014).

Along that line of (admittedly somewhat off topic, but interesting!) reasoning: if Ricciardo were to win the world championship this year, would that change how highly you think of him? He's already almost universally considered one of the best drivers on the grid, but is he lacking something without that title?

For me the answer is mostly no - it wouldn't change my opinion of Ricciardo's place in the grid hierarchy, merely my opinion of his potential legacy. World championships are pretty much all about legacy and career immortality; they will never be forgotten, while the equally good - or better - drivers who never won the world title will be remembered only by the true faithful of the sport.
:thumbup:

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by sandman1347 »

Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:To a point. I would say winning a title Vs not winning one makes a huge difference in perception. Nobody would put Eddie Irvine in the top 50 of all time but everyone would have he won the 99 title. Same would probably apply to Massa.
World Champion vs. Not World Champion certainly does matter to how drivers are perceived, but what I was saying is that the number of titles is not very important to how world champions are perceived.

Beyond that, I think the difference a world title makes is almost directly inverse to how highly a driver is perceived. A driver like Sterling Moss doesn't need one to be rated with the best, but for the lesser world champions it made all the difference in the world (pardon the pun!). If Alonso had had the same career he's had, minus the world championships, he would be high in the conversation for the best driver never to win the title. If he only had one, he would almost certainly be considered the best single world champion (much as Lewis was until 2014).

Along that line of (admittedly somewhat off topic, but interesting!) reasoning: if Ricciardo were to win the world championship this year, would that change how highly you think of him? He's already almost universally considered one of the best drivers on the grid, but is he lacking something without that title?

For me the answer is mostly no - it wouldn't change my opinion of Ricciardo's place in the grid hierarchy, merely my opinion of his potential legacy. World championships are pretty much all about legacy and career immortality; they will never be forgotten, while the equally good - or better - drivers who never won the world title will be remembered only by the true faithful of the sport.
I agree with you for the most part here. I do think it's interesting to note that fighting for the WDC is almost like running for president. It's likely to lead to intense scrutiny and overall negative media attention as well as a decrease in the way the driver is perceived.

There's a lot of pressure associated with trying to win a championship and that makes it much harder to do than I think a lot of people realize. We've seen almost all of the great drivers struggle at times with that pressure. It's actually very likely that if Dan found himself in the dominant car, coverage of him would slant more towards any mistakes he made or missed opportunities wheres now coverage of Dan is almost all positive and about the things he does well. It's hard to know how he would handle that increased pressure and scrutiny and that intense negativity that is directed at successful people in the sport (and in most sports in general). Honestly, I think Dan has great talent but until he's been in that situation, I can't put him up there with people who have been there and succeeded.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by RaggedMan »

While there is merit to some of what sandman said above, and I am far from an Alonso fan, the 2012 season is what legends are made of.

When the camera was on him after the Brazil race where he was just standing there looking exhausted, staring off into space, and drinking water I thought that might've been it for him. He had done all he could to nearly nip a title against a much better car at the end and came up just that little bit short.

I wasn't, and still am not, a fan of the things like breaking Massa's trans seal to give Alonso a better grid spot and there was some luck involved with RBR failures for him to be that close. But there aren't many who would've been in that position with the car Ferrari built that year.
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AnRs
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by AnRs »

I find a bit strange that there should be more pressure cruising at the front when qualifying with a car .5 to 1 second faster than anyone else than starting at the back at the field with all that comes with that as a struggle..

When every session is a struggle to maximize speed and balance while the dominant car just make small adjustments and carry on, I know which place I'll find more exciting and I also know how some drivers sound when they find themselve in a slower or less reliable car..

No I can see much less pressure in a dominant car then in a team filled with the tension like McLaren Honda 2017.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mikeyg123 »

AnRs wrote:I find a bit strange that there should be more pressure cruising at the front when qualifying with a car .5 to 1 second faster than anyone else than starting at the back at the field with all that comes with that as a struggle..

When every session is a struggle to maximize speed and balance while the dominant car just make small adjustments and carry on, I know which place I'll find more exciting and I also know how some drivers sound when they find themselve in a slower or less reliable car..

No I can see much less pressure in a dominant car then in a team filled with the tension like McLaren Honda 2017.
I disagree. Very little to lose in a car that can't win if you already have a solid reputation. Alonso won't care too much about finishing 11th rather than 10th in the championship but 2nd rather than 1st....

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

Alonso is a commodity in F1 like only one or two others and as long as someone is willing to offer him exorbitantly far too much money to have fun, he will continue in the sport. So good is he that even the most dominant team contacted him this off season to inquire about acquiring his services, and until that no longer happens he will be a part of the show.

I don't see McLaren under so much pressure this year so much as Honda is under pressure because for the 2nd time in a row they missed the mark and are the obvious Achilles heel of the car, or at least that's the hand McLaren's playing to the world. What I mean by that is that while the engine has obviously suffered issues and failures, and is said to be under powered, for all we know the chassis itself may be pretty bad as well, and the only way to know how good or how bad their chassis truly is is to run a different power unit in it. If then the car still remains a cucumber then the world would know it wasn't all on Honda.

Right now the best thing McLaren can do is work with Honda to try and resolve the issues of the engine together. From listening to it, it sounds as though it has great potential and it even sounds more ferocious this year.
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mcdo »

He'll quit McLaren and go elsewhere. Wouldn't be surprised to see him eyeing up Palmer's seat if Renault start making progress
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Randine »

I don't think he will quit.
However I only see 2 options for him unless McLaren start making regular podiums by the end of the season.
Renault, return to where he won his championships as they are emerging as a stronger team.
Or Merc. Toto seems to still rate Alonso as the best on the grid.
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slide
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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by slide »

no he will continue after this year but not at his present team where he has driven a dog for 3 years , and will blow up soon- now that would make a good poll-what race will Alonso throw his gloves into the crowd ? or will he wait until he has a firm offer for 2018, and i'm sure he'll get some offers some time soon - Williams could be in the running , merc , and others

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Zoue »

mikeyg123 wrote:
AnRs wrote:I find a bit strange that there should be more pressure cruising at the front when qualifying with a car .5 to 1 second faster than anyone else than starting at the back at the field with all that comes with that as a struggle..

When every session is a struggle to maximize speed and balance while the dominant car just make small adjustments and carry on, I know which place I'll find more exciting and I also know how some drivers sound when they find themselve in a slower or less reliable car..

No I can see much less pressure in a dominant car then in a team filled with the tension like McLaren Honda 2017.
I disagree. Very little to lose in a car that can't win if you already have a solid reputation. Alonso won't care too much about finishing 11th rather than 10th in the championship but 2nd rather than 1st....
Yeah, but i get the point being made. If your only competition is yourself or your team mate, there may be less ultimate pressure than someone who has to wrestle his car against other cars at the back of the pack. Having g to fight to eke out every last tenth is perhaps more demanding than driving a car where a mistake wont cost you much, if at all

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by sandman1347 »

AnRs wrote:I find a bit strange that there should be more pressure cruising at the front when qualifying with a car .5 to 1 second faster than anyone else than starting at the back at the field with all that comes with that as a struggle..

When every session is a struggle to maximize speed and balance while the dominant car just make small adjustments and carry on, I know which place I'll find more exciting and I also know how some drivers sound when they find themselve in a slower or less reliable car..

No I can see much less pressure in a dominant car then in a team filled with the tension like McLaren Honda 2017.
So you think Senna was under less pressure in 1988 than he was in 1984?

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
AnRs wrote:I find a bit strange that there should be more pressure cruising at the front when qualifying with a car .5 to 1 second faster than anyone else than starting at the back at the field with all that comes with that as a struggle..

When every session is a struggle to maximize speed and balance while the dominant car just make small adjustments and carry on, I know which place I'll find more exciting and I also know how some drivers sound when they find themselve in a slower or less reliable car..

No I can see much less pressure in a dominant car then in a team filled with the tension like McLaren Honda 2017.
I disagree. Very little to lose in a car that can't win if you already have a solid reputation. Alonso won't care too much about finishing 11th rather than 10th in the championship but 2nd rather than 1st....
Yeah, but i get the point being made. If your only competition is yourself or your team mate, there may be less ultimate pressure than someone who has to wrestle his car against other cars at the back of the pack. Having g to fight to eke out every last tenth is perhaps more demanding than driving a car where a mistake wont cost you much, if at all
I would agree that it is a harder job to do but for someone like Alonso I think the pressure is far less because the cost of failure is nowhere near as great.

For a driver like Palmer however, who's career is in the balance and reliant on consistent great performances I would agree that he probably has to endure more pressure than those with the quickest car. Alonso isn't really in that position though.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by AnRs »

sandman1347 wrote:
AnRs wrote:I find a bit strange that there should be more pressure cruising at the front when qualifying with a car .5 to 1 second faster than anyone else than starting at the back at the field with all that comes with that as a struggle..

When every session is a struggle to maximize speed and balance while the dominant car just make small adjustments and carry on, I know which place I'll find more exciting and I also know how some drivers sound when they find themselve in a slower or less reliable car..

No I can see much less pressure in a dominant car then in a team filled with the tension like McLaren Honda 2017.
So you think Senna was under less pressure in 1988 than he was in 1984?
Let me put it this way, Lewis is much more comfortable now than he was in 2012 with McLaren, and Vettel was much more comfortable in 2013 than he was last year.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by ReservoirDog »

I'd certainly question his IQ if he stays at McLaren.

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by mikeyg123 »

AnRs wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
AnRs wrote:I find a bit strange that there should be more pressure cruising at the front when qualifying with a car .5 to 1 second faster than anyone else than starting at the back at the field with all that comes with that as a struggle..

When every session is a struggle to maximize speed and balance while the dominant car just make small adjustments and carry on, I know which place I'll find more exciting and I also know how some drivers sound when they find themselve in a slower or less reliable car..

No I can see much less pressure in a dominant car then in a team filled with the tension like McLaren Honda 2017.
So you think Senna was under less pressure in 1988 than he was in 1984?
Let me put it this way, Lewis is much more comfortable now than he was in 2012 with McLaren, and Vettel was much more comfortable in 2013 than he was last year.
But Hamilton was competing for the title in 2012? And Vettel wasn't starting at the back in 2016?

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Invade »

Bit off-topic again, but which drivers do you guys think were under the most pressure last year, whether it be through themselves, from the team, or otherwise?

In no particular order and off the top of my head, I'd say: Kvyat, Vettel, Palmer, Rosberg and maybe Ericcson and Nasr...

Thoughts?

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Re: Is Alonso going to quit?

Post by Zoue »

Invade wrote:Bit off-topic again, but which drivers do you guys think were under the most pressure last year, whether it be through themselves, from the team, or otherwise?

In no particular order and off the top of my head, I'd say: Kvyat, Vettel, Palmer, Rosberg and maybe Ericcson and Nasr...

Thoughts?
Kvyat, definitely - fighting for his seat and F1 career after being dropped from the A team.
Vettel, I think so - Kimi started showing him up a bit in qualifying and for someone with Vettel's reputation that was probably hard to bear. Additionally, he'll be feeling the pressure to deliver in a car that just isn't up to it
Palmer, yes - the spotlight in a debut year is always bright, and it's a lot harder to make an impression in a back marker
Rosberg, too - The potential for first (and, as it turns out, only) title will always cause sleepless nights
Ericsson, yes - not so much a rookie anymore and being beaten by his team mate two years running has to hurt. Make or break for him this year
Nasr, yes - was lucky to finish ahead of is team mate in the points as was trailing him for much of the year.

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