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sandman1347 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:Marc had it if not for that little bobble on the last lap. Dovi has impressed me this year with his consistency and his fighting. What a battle that was in the wet! Man I love the way MotoGP championships are so often decided by these epic battles between the contenders. F1 so rarely has that type of season.

It's interesting to note that Yamaha have very clearly dropped behind both Ducati and Honda. They are now firmly the third best factory bike. Often Petrucci is faster than the Yamahas on the satellite bike and Zarco is even faster sometimes on last year's bike. Yamaha clearly took a wrong turn this year and Maverick is not in the position he probably thought he would be in.

The bike seemed to be alright at the beginning of the season when Vinales was winning races but didn't suit Rossi as much, I'll leave it there.

That's quite the conspiracy theory you've concocted lol. Any evidence that this is Rossi's fault? I know you don't like the guy but jeez...

Yes it is but Vinales had to change his riding style part way through the season, he couldn't brake as late going into the corners for instance, who do you think might lead the development direction?

pokerman wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:Marc had it if not for that little bobble on the last lap. Dovi has impressed me this year with his consistency and his fighting. What a battle that was in the wet! Man I love the way MotoGP championships are so often decided by these epic battles between the contenders. F1 so rarely has that type of season.

It's interesting to note that Yamaha have very clearly dropped behind both Ducati and Honda. They are now firmly the third best factory bike. Often Petrucci is faster than the Yamahas on the satellite bike and Zarco is even faster sometimes on last year's bike. Yamaha clearly took a wrong turn this year and Maverick is not in the position he probably thought he would be in.

The bike seemed to be alright at the beginning of the season when Vinales was winning races but didn't suit Rossi as much, I'll leave it there.

That's quite the conspiracy theory you've concocted lol. Any evidence that this is Rossi's fault? I know you don't like the guy but jeez...

Yes it is but Vinales had to change his riding style part way through the season, he couldn't brake as late going into the corners for instance, who do you think might lead the development direction?

Probably the engineers for the most part. I think both Rossi and Vinales did better early in the year and both are struggling now so I'm not sure it makes sense to blame Rossi for the bike's current form.

sandman1347 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:Marc had it if not for that little bobble on the last lap. Dovi has impressed me this year with his consistency and his fighting. What a battle that was in the wet! Man I love the way MotoGP championships are so often decided by these epic battles between the contenders. F1 so rarely has that type of season.

It's interesting to note that Yamaha have very clearly dropped behind both Ducati and Honda. They are now firmly the third best factory bike. Often Petrucci is faster than the Yamahas on the satellite bike and Zarco is even faster sometimes on last year's bike. Yamaha clearly took a wrong turn this year and Maverick is not in the position he probably thought he would be in.

The bike seemed to be alright at the beginning of the season when Vinales was winning races but didn't suit Rossi as much, I'll leave it there.

That's quite the conspiracy theory you've concocted lol. Any evidence that this is Rossi's fault? I know you don't like the guy but jeez...

Yes it is but Vinales had to change his riding style part way through the season, he couldn't brake as late going into the corners for instance, who do you think might lead the development direction?

Probably the engineers for the most part. I think both Rossi and Vinales did better early in the year and both are struggling now so I'm not sure it makes sense to blame Rossi for the bike's current form.

I guess I just wonder why change the bike when the new kid in the team is leading the series after 3 wins in 7 races and then he says

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ ... le-924809/

The new bike's not been that great.

pokerman wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

sandman1347 wrote: That's quite the conspiracy theory you've concocted lol. Any evidence that this is Rossi's fault? I know you don't like the guy but jeez...

Yes it is but Vinales had to change his riding style part way through the season, he couldn't brake as late going into the corners for instance, who do you think might lead the development direction?

Probably the engineers for the most part. I think both Rossi and Vinales did better early in the year and both are struggling now so I'm not sure it makes sense to blame Rossi for the bike's current form.

I guess I just wonder why change the bike when the new kid in the team is leading the series after 3 wins in 7 races and then he says

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ ... le-924809/

The new bike's not been that great.

Yeah I know that Maverick has struggled with the new chassis but I'm not sure how you find that to some how be Rossi's fault. Maverick can also simply choose not to run the new chassis...

sandman1347 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

sandman1347 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

sandman1347 wrote: That's quite the conspiracy theory you've concocted lol. Any evidence that this is Rossi's fault? I know you don't like the guy but jeez...

Yes it is but Vinales had to change his riding style part way through the season, he couldn't brake as late going into the corners for instance, who do you think might lead the development direction?

Probably the engineers for the most part. I think both Rossi and Vinales did better early in the year and both are struggling now so I'm not sure it makes sense to blame Rossi for the bike's current form.

I guess I just wonder why change the bike when the new kid in the team is leading the series after 3 wins in 7 races and then he says

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ ... le-924809/

The new bike's not been that great.

Yeah I know that Maverick has struggled with the new chassis but I'm not sure how you find that to some how be Rossi's fault. Maverick can also simply choose not to run the new chassis...

I was just sceptical at that time as to why the new bike was introduced given that Vinales was much better on the first bike than Rossi plus he was leading the series, Rossi was in 5th.

With the new bike he talks of it having more potential, of him needing to adjust his riding style to suit the bike, maybe the team convinced him that it was the way forward at that point, also would the team want to split resources with 2 different bikes, at this point I'm just speculating.

The Yamaha has the same pros and cons as it did at the start of the year.

Its not gone well in the wet all season and you only have to look at Jerez round 4 to see the rear tyre issues. I remember Philip Island last year where it didn't work at all in the cold wet. Yamaha, Honda and Ducati all good enough to win the title this year though

Everyone got overexcited with vinales after preseason and the opening couple of rounds. If is dry I expect him to be winning again at the weekend

Zazu wrote:The Yamaha has the same pros and cons as it did at the start of the year.

Its not gone well in the wet all season and you only have to look at Jerez round 4 to see the rear tyre issues. I remember Philip Island last year where it didn't work at all in the cold wet. Yamaha, Honda and Ducati all good enough to win the title this year though

Everyone got overexcited with vinales after preseason and the opening couple of rounds. If is dry I expect him to be winning again at the weekend

There's been plenty of dry races recently yet he is still to win one on the new bike.

Vinales has openly praised the 2018 chassis saying its big improvement and got his good feeling back. At low grip Jerez Yamaha were no where, at high grip le man's next time out they were dominant so depends on circuit characteristics. He could easily have won Silverstone in the dry

Main difference between now and start of season is Honda/marquez improved acceleration

Riders changing bikes is a myth, same as modern f1. They merely give feedback

What a ride from Dovizioso! Pefectly judged in terms of managing the race in very tricky conditions and timing his first pass on Marquez, but then the controlled aggression on the last couple of laps was breathtaking. He has been so good this year, I'd love to see him take the title.

DOLOMITE wrote:What a ride from Dovizioso! Pefectly judged in terms of managing the race in very tricky conditions and timing his first pass on Marquez, but then the controlled aggression on the last couple of laps was breathtaking. He has been so good this year, I'd love to see him take the title.

Without Marquez's engine blowing up in Silverstone then he would have a nice cushion going into the last 3 races, Dovi has done well but Marquez the more impressive and I would say the more deserving.

pokerman wrote:

DOLOMITE wrote:What a ride from Dovizioso! Pefectly judged in terms of managing the race in very tricky conditions and timing his first pass on Marquez, but then the controlled aggression on the last couple of laps was breathtaking. He has been so good this year, I'd love to see him take the title.

Without Marquez's engine blowing up in Silverstone then he would have a nice cushion going into the last 3 races, Dovi has done well but Marquez the more impressive and I would say the more deserving.

Yeah Marquez is still the class of the field, it's just Dovi seems like a nice guy, it's against expectations, just a nice story and good to see a new winner. Adds so much more enjoyment to the races and the season as a whole.

DOLOMITE wrote:

pokerman wrote:

DOLOMITE wrote:What a ride from Dovizioso! Pefectly judged in terms of managing the race in very tricky conditions and timing his first pass on Marquez, but then the controlled aggression on the last couple of laps was breathtaking. He has been so good this year, I'd love to see him take the title.

Without Marquez's engine blowing up in Silverstone then he would have a nice cushion going into the last 3 races, Dovi has done well but Marquez the more impressive and I would say the more deserving.

Yeah Marquez is still the class of the field, it's just Dovi seems like a nice guy, it's against expectations, just a nice story and good to see a new winner. Adds so much more enjoyment to the races and the season as a whole.

I was at Silverstone. There was quite a loud cheer when the engine went. Now I know the vast majority of fans in attendance are in the Rossi brigade so there was a strong bias against Marquez. But everyone was happy with the Dovi win. Delighted in fact. His performance this season is totally unexpected and people like that

mcdo wrote:

DOLOMITE wrote:

pokerman wrote:

DOLOMITE wrote:What a ride from Dovizioso! Pefectly judged in terms of managing the race in very tricky conditions and timing his first pass on Marquez, but then the controlled aggression on the last couple of laps was breathtaking. He has been so good this year, I'd love to see him take the title.

Without Marquez's engine blowing up in Silverstone then he would have a nice cushion going into the last 3 races, Dovi has done well but Marquez the more impressive and I would say the more deserving.

Yeah Marquez is still the class of the field, it's just Dovi seems like a nice guy, it's against expectations, just a nice story and good to see a new winner. Adds so much more enjoyment to the races and the season as a whole.

I was at Silverstone. There was quite a loud cheer when the engine went. Now I know the vast majority of fans in attendance are in the Rossi brigade so there was a strong bias against Marquez. But everyone was happy with the Dovi win. Delighted in fact. His performance this season is totally unexpected and people like that

I dont recall much cheering, I think Dovi is very personable and thats why fans like him. His title charge isnt that much of a shock, he had an horrendous start to last season which put him on the back foot.


I want a dry race tomorrow because Philip Island races tend to be spectacular but after today (and assuming Marquez doesnt DNF) its needs to be wet to prolong the championship.

Looks to be dry in Australia for all three classes. 93 is dominating in terms of pace in all conditions. Both Ducatis qualified poorly—hope Dovi can stage a comeback through the field, it’ll be a monumental challenge.

Absolute disaster for anyone hoping for the unlikely Dovi triumph. The 2-place drop at the line was particularly painful. Talk about salt in the wound

Zazu wrote:

mcdo wrote:

DOLOMITE wrote:

pokerman wrote:

DOLOMITE wrote:What a ride from Dovizioso! Pefectly judged in terms of managing the race in very tricky conditions and timing his first pass on Marquez, but then the controlled aggression on the last couple of laps was breathtaking. He has been so good this year, I'd love to see him take the title.

Without Marquez's engine blowing up in Silverstone then he would have a nice cushion going into the last 3 races, Dovi has done well but Marquez the more impressive and I would say the more deserving.

Yeah Marquez is still the class of the field, it's just Dovi seems like a nice guy, it's against expectations, just a nice story and good to see a new winner. Adds so much more enjoyment to the races and the season as a whole.

I was at Silverstone. There was quite a loud cheer when the engine went. Now I know the vast majority of fans in attendance are in the Rossi brigade so there was a strong bias against Marquez. But everyone was happy with the Dovi win. Delighted in fact. His performance this season is totally unexpected and people like that

I dont recall much cheering, I think Dovi is very personable and thats why fans like him. His title charge isnt that much of a shock, he had an horrendous start to last season which put him on the back foot.


I want a dry race tomorrow because Philip Island races tend to be spectacular but after today (and assuming Marquez doesnt DNF) its needs to be wet to prolong the championship.

I guess nobody cheered where you were at the track but they sure as hell cheered where I was. His title charge is a shock. This was supposed to be the Vinales show, with Marquez putting up the valiant fight. If any Ducati rider was going to make waves in the championship, the vast majority would have put their money on it being the other guy

Disagree with that

Zazu wrote:Everyones getting carried away with Vinales in preseason.
Lorenzo, Rossi and Marquez have 13 premier class world titles between them.


Marquez will win the title and I reckon he'll do it comfortably

Vinales regularly performed better in practice than races last year. He'll probably win in Qatar but if they raced at Philip Island, Valencia or Sepang tomorrow he wouldn't beat marquez. Hes also nothing special in the wet or in mixed conditions.

I also think/hope Rossi is just downplaying his chances. I expect Pedrosa to win a few races this year. Also expect Dovi to impress.

This is from me preseason. Seasons gone just as expected

Theres plenty of very quick riders but Marquez is in a different class. He excels in every area

Zazu wrote:Disagree with that

Zazu wrote:Everyones getting carried away with Vinales in preseason.
Lorenzo, Rossi and Marquez have 13 premier class world titles between them.


Marquez will win the title and I reckon he'll do it comfortably

Vinales regularly performed better in practice than races last year. He'll probably win in Qatar but if they raced at Philip Island, Valencia or Sepang tomorrow he wouldn't beat marquez. Hes also nothing special in the wet or in mixed conditions.

I also think/hope Rossi is just downplaying his chances. I expect Pedrosa to win a few races this year. Also expect Dovi to impress.

This is from me preseason. Seasons gone just as expected

Theres plenty of very quick riders but Marquez is in a different class. He excels in every area

marquez is different class obviously. he could probably win on any bike. but i think vinales is probably the only rider at the moment that can challenge him for dry pace. by that i mean in terms of absolute pace when the bike is how he wants it. this year will be good experience as mid season he seemed a bit demoralised because things werent going right. you cant afford to do that.

also we know how good rossi is in the wet. one of if not the best ever. and generally vinales has been very close and often a bit ahead in the wet races so i dont think hes bad in the wet. also marquez used to struggle in the wet and pedrosa was faster but i think he has learnt how to be quick and these tyres are helping him as others are struggling massively with them in the wet, even rossi.

Zazu wrote:Disagree with that

Zazu wrote:Everyones getting carried away with Vinales in preseason.
Lorenzo, Rossi and Marquez have 13 premier class world titles between them.


Marquez will win the title and I reckon he'll do it comfortably

Vinales regularly performed better in practice than races last year. He'll probably win in Qatar but if they raced at Philip Island, Valencia or Sepang tomorrow he wouldn't beat marquez. Hes also nothing special in the wet or in mixed conditions.

I also think/hope Rossi is just downplaying his chances. I expect Pedrosa to win a few races this year. Also expect Dovi to impress.

This is from me preseason. Seasons gone just as expected

Theres plenty of very quick riders but Marquez is in a different class. He excels in every area

Well done for not getting carried away. But you are just one person. You said yourself "Everyones getting carried away with Vinales in preseason", the key word being "everyone", which is my point

Zazu wrote:Disagree with that

Zazu wrote:Everyones getting carried away with Vinales in preseason.
Lorenzo, Rossi and Marquez have 13 premier class world titles between them.


Marquez will win the title and I reckon he'll do it comfortably

Vinales regularly performed better in practice than races last year. He'll probably win in Qatar but if they raced at Philip Island, Valencia or Sepang tomorrow he wouldn't beat marquez. Hes also nothing special in the wet or in mixed conditions.

I also think/hope Rossi is just downplaying his chances. I expect Pedrosa to win a few races this year. Also expect Dovi to impress.

This is from me preseason. Seasons gone just as expected

Theres plenty of very quick riders but Marquez is in a different class. He excels in every area

Good shout although I don't think it's been comfortable for Marquez.

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:

Zazu wrote:Disagree with that

Zazu wrote:Everyones getting carried away with Vinales in preseason.
Lorenzo, Rossi and Marquez have 13 premier class world titles between them.


Marquez will win the title and I reckon he'll do it comfortably

Vinales regularly performed better in practice than races last year. He'll probably win in Qatar but if they raced at Philip Island, Valencia or Sepang tomorrow he wouldn't beat marquez. Hes also nothing special in the wet or in mixed conditions.

I also think/hope Rossi is just downplaying his chances. I expect Pedrosa to win a few races this year. Also expect Dovi to impress.

This is from me preseason. Seasons gone just as expected

Theres plenty of very quick riders but Marquez is in a different class. He excels in every area

marquez is different class obviously. he could probably win on any bike. but i think vinales is probably the only rider at the moment that can challenge him for dry pace. by that i mean in terms of absolute pace when the bike is how he wants it. this year will be good experience as mid season he seemed a bit demoralised because things werent going right. you cant afford to do that.

also we know how good rossi is in the wet. one of if not the best ever. and generally vinales has been very close and often a bit ahead in the wet races so i dont think hes bad in the wet. also marquez used to struggle in the wet and pedrosa was faster but i think he has learnt how to be quick and these tyres are helping him as others are struggling massively with them in the wet, even rossi.

I agree with the first paragraph but I think you are a bit off in the second paragraph, Rossi is not the best ever in fact I've seen him struggle early in his career, he's not as good as Stoner, Marquez or even Dovi, also I've never seen Marquez struggle in the wet in the top class, whilst Vinales often struggles in the wet.

pokerman wrote:

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:

Zazu wrote:Disagree with that

Zazu wrote:Everyones getting carried away with Vinales in preseason.
Lorenzo, Rossi and Marquez have 13 premier class world titles between them.


Marquez will win the title and I reckon he'll do it comfortably

Vinales regularly performed better in practice than races last year. He'll probably win in Qatar but if they raced at Philip Island, Valencia or Sepang tomorrow he wouldn't beat marquez. Hes also nothing special in the wet or in mixed conditions.

I also think/hope Rossi is just downplaying his chances. I expect Pedrosa to win a few races this year. Also expect Dovi to impress.

This is from me preseason. Seasons gone just as expected

Theres plenty of very quick riders but Marquez is in a different class. He excels in every area

marquez is different class obviously. he could probably win on any bike. but i think vinales is probably the only rider at the moment that can challenge him for dry pace. by that i mean in terms of absolute pace when the bike is how he wants it. this year will be good experience as mid season he seemed a bit demoralised because things werent going right. you cant afford to do that.

also we know how good rossi is in the wet. one of if not the best ever. and generally vinales has been very close and often a bit ahead in the wet races so i dont think hes bad in the wet. also marquez used to struggle in the wet and pedrosa was faster but i think he has learnt how to be quick and these tyres are helping him as others are struggling massively with them in the wet, even rossi.

I agree with the first paragraph but I think you are a bit off in the second paragraph, Rossi is not the best ever in fact I've seen him struggle early in his career, he's not as good as Stoner, Marquez or even Dovi, also I've never seen Marquez struggle in the wet in the top class, whilst Vinales often struggles in the wet.

dovi has always been good in the wet. stoner wasnt as good in the wet compared to dry. my recollection from watching for the last 15 years or so is rossi has always been a top wet rider. i dont think many would disagree with that (apart from you obviously). also marquez did struggle in the wet in the 1st couple of years. they mentioned it on bt sport either at motegi or race before. i remember pedrosa beating him in their first year together.

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Caserole of Nonsense wrote:

Zazu wrote:Disagree with that

Zazu wrote:Everyones getting carried away with Vinales in preseason.
Lorenzo, Rossi and Marquez have 13 premier class world titles between them.


Marquez will win the title and I reckon he'll do it comfortably

Vinales regularly performed better in practice than races last year. He'll probably win in Qatar but if they raced at Philip Island, Valencia or Sepang tomorrow he wouldn't beat marquez. Hes also nothing special in the wet or in mixed conditions.

I also think/hope Rossi is just downplaying his chances. I expect Pedrosa to win a few races this year. Also expect Dovi to impress.

This is from me preseason. Seasons gone just as expected

Theres plenty of very quick riders but Marquez is in a different class. He excels in every area

marquez is different class obviously. he could probably win on any bike. but i think vinales is probably the only rider at the moment that can challenge him for dry pace. by that i mean in terms of absolute pace when the bike is how he wants it. this year will be good experience as mid season he seemed a bit demoralised because things werent going right. you cant afford to do that.

also we know how good rossi is in the wet. one of if not the best ever. and generally vinales has been very close and often a bit ahead in the wet races so i dont think hes bad in the wet. also marquez used to struggle in the wet and pedrosa was faster but i think he has learnt how to be quick and these tyres are helping him as others are struggling massively with them in the wet, even rossi.

I agree with the first paragraph but I think you are a bit off in the second paragraph, Rossi is not the best ever in fact I've seen him struggle early in his career, he's not as good as Stoner, Marquez or even Dovi, also I've never seen Marquez struggle in the wet in the top class, whilst Vinales often struggles in the wet.

dovi has always been good in the wet. stoner wasnt as good in the wet compared to dry. my recollection from watching for the last 15 years or so is rossi has always been a top wet rider. i dont think many would disagree with that (apart from you obviously). also marquez did struggle in the wet in the 1st couple of years. they mentioned it on bt sport either at motegi or race before. i remember pedrosa beating him in their first year together.

I remember Rossi having weak races in the wet until he dominated in the wet at Silverstone which sort of surprised me, in recent years Rossi has been very good in the wet.

Stoner was exceptional in the wet, I remember Marquez struggle in the wet early on in his rookie season in Moto2 but since then he's always been top notch.

Win number 10 for Mir. Dont know how or why im still a little underwhelmed by him

KTM back to back 1-2s in Moto2. Think that bodes very well for next years title fight

Still a long shot but great to see the title fight go down to Valencia.

Dovi! Oh Dovi. If we only could have had a better showing in Oz.
Glad for Jorge. Big performance for Zarco.

Fantastic race. Tremendous year by Dovi, whether he does it or not. And very glad for Lorenzo too.

I'm surprised by Zarco. I would have thought he would fade on that soft rear and that Marc would get him before the end.

Great win and great season by Dovi! This is his one and potentially his only chance to become MotoGP champion and he's making the most of it. I'm very happy for him and I must say that he truly seems to have found something extra this year.

For Marc it's pretty simple now. He must avoid a crash at all costs. I'm reminded of 2006, when Valentino Rossi was ina similar situation and actually did crash! Let's see what happens.

I don't think I'll ever get over what Lorenzo has done today

mcdo wrote:I don't think I'll ever get over what Lorenzo has done today

Shocking from Lorenzo. Shows what sort of character he is

mcdo wrote:I don't think I'll ever get over what Lorenzo has done today

Assume for a moment he had let Dovizioso past and early enough. What good would that have done to either Dovizioso or Ducati, as long as Marquez was not in trouble?
We might have seen a nice fight between the two title candidates, but nothing more, I think.

Fiki wrote:

mcdo wrote:I don't think I'll ever get over what Lorenzo has done today

Assume for a moment he had let Dovizioso past and early enough. What good would that have done to either Dovizioso or Ducati, as long as Marquez was not in trouble?
We might have seen a nice fight between the two title candidates, but nothing more, I think.

Nobody knows what kind of pressure, if any, that Dovi could have put the Hondas under. As Marquez showed, he's not infallible and is susceptible to mistakes. One thing was certain, Dovi couldn't apply any pressure when stuck behind Lorenzo

mcdo wrote:

Fiki wrote:

mcdo wrote:I don't think I'll ever get over what Lorenzo has done today

Assume for a moment he had let Dovizioso past and early enough. What good would that have done to either Dovizioso or Ducati, as long as Marquez was not in trouble?
We might have seen a nice fight between the two title candidates, but nothing more, I think.

Nobody knows what kind of pressure, if any, that Dovi could have put the Hondas under. As Marquez showed, he's not infallible and is susceptible to mistakes. One thing was certain, he couldn't apply any pressure when stuck behind Lorenzo

They all made mistakes, showing it's not just "pressure" that makes them make mistakes. Marquez make a mistake when in position to throw the title away. And Dovizioso made one when Marquez was behind him.

As long as Dovizioso was not in a position to take the title, I don't see why Lorenzo would feel obliged to give up his position. It would have altered nothing in the championship standings.

mcdo wrote:

Fiki wrote:

mcdo wrote:I don't think I'll ever get over what Lorenzo has done today

Assume for a moment he had let Dovizioso past and early enough. What good would that have done to either Dovizioso or Ducati, as long as Marquez was not in trouble?
We might have seen a nice fight between the two title candidates, but nothing more, I think.

Nobody knows what kind of pressure, if any, that Dovi could have put the Hondas under. As Marquez showed, he's not infallible and is susceptible to mistakes. One thing was certain, Dovi couldn't apply any pressure when stuck behind Lorenzo

Totally agree. It looked like Dovi was slightly quicker than Lorenzo so could have put more pressure on the Hondas than Lorenzo was doing. Seemed Dovi pushed his tyres to hard trying to get past his teammate and then when Lorenzo crashed and Dovi tried to push his tyres were done. Ridiculous that Lorenzo made it so hard for him when his teammate is in a title showdown and needed to win.

Fiki wrote:

mcdo wrote:

Fiki wrote:

mcdo wrote:I don't think I'll ever get over what Lorenzo has done today

Assume for a moment he had let Dovizioso past and early enough. What good would that have done to either Dovizioso or Ducati, as long as Marquez was not in trouble?
We might have seen a nice fight between the two title candidates, but nothing more, I think.

Nobody knows what kind of pressure, if any, that Dovi could have put the Hondas under. As Marquez showed, he's not infallible and is susceptible to mistakes. One thing was certain, he couldn't apply any pressure when stuck behind Lorenzo

They all made mistakes, showing it's not just "pressure" that makes them make mistakes. Marquez make a mistake when in position to throw the title away. And Dovizioso made one when Marquez was behind him.

As long as Dovizioso was not in a position to take the title, I don't see why Lorenzo would feel obliged to give up his position. It would have altered nothing in the championship standings.

At the point in time that he was holding Dovi up there was just no way of knowing what could happen. It's not like Lorenzo could read the future

The end result is not the point. It's about maximising the chances of influencing the end result. Lorenzo didn't allow Dovi maximise his chances to influence Marquez's result. And all that is aside from the fact he ignored a direct instruction from his team

I'm in Valencia. I don't know how it looked on TV but lorenzo was faster than Dovi and has been all weekend. They were just managing the race (tyres) As soon as Marquez went off Lorenzo closed in on the front 2

Hondas and Zarco far too fast. Factory Yamaha far too slow. No chance Dovi was getting the title today

Zazu wrote:I'm in Valencia. I don't know how it looked on TV but lorenzo was faster than Dovi and has been all weekend. They were just managing the race (tyres) As soon as Marquez went off Lorenzo closed in on the front 2

Hondas and Zarco far too fast. Factory Yamaha far too slow. No chance Dovi was getting the title today

Enjoy the party!

mcdo wrote:

Fiki wrote:

mcdo wrote:

Fiki wrote:

mcdo wrote:I don't think I'll ever get over what Lorenzo has done today

Assume for a moment he had let Dovizioso past and early enough. What good would that have done to either Dovizioso or Ducati, as long as Marquez was not in trouble?
We might have seen a nice fight between the two title candidates, but nothing more, I think.

Nobody knows what kind of pressure, if any, that Dovi could have put the Hondas under. As Marquez showed, he's not infallible and is susceptible to mistakes. One thing was certain, he couldn't apply any pressure when stuck behind Lorenzo

They all made mistakes, showing it's not just "pressure" that makes them make mistakes. Marquez make a mistake when in position to throw the title away. And Dovizioso made one when Marquez was behind him.

As long as Dovizioso was not in a position to take the title, I don't see why Lorenzo would feel obliged to give up his position. It would have altered nothing in the championship standings.

At the point in time that he was holding Dovi up there was just no way of knowing what could happen. It's not like Lorenzo could read the future

The end result is not the point. It's about maximising the chances of influencing the end result. Lorenzo didn't allow Dovi maximise his chances to influence Marquez's result. And all that is aside from the fact he ignored a direct instruction from his team

I already made my point about pressure, which only leaves your remark about a direct instruction from the team. You know I would much prefer no team orders ever, but I propose that next time Ducati drop the word "suggested" from any team orders.

I don't honestly know whether team orders are allowed in MotoGP, so perhaps they have to phrase it that way, but that still would not alter my views on team orders. I also doubt Dovizioso would have been much more successful against Pedrosa, than he was against the sister bike.

mcdo wrote:

Zazu wrote:I'm in Valencia. I don't know how it looked on TV but lorenzo was faster than Dovi and has been all weekend. They were just managing the race (tyres) As soon as Marquez went off Lorenzo closed in on the front 2

Hondas and Zarco far too fast. Factory Yamaha far too slow. No chance Dovi was getting the title today

Enjoy the party!

Yes, enjoy Zazu!

Fiki wrote:

mcdo wrote:

Fiki wrote:

mcdo wrote:

Fiki wrote:Assume for a moment he had let Dovizioso past and early enough. What good would that have done to either Dovizioso or Ducati, as long as Marquez was not in trouble?
We might have seen a nice fight between the two title candidates, but nothing more, I think.

Nobody knows what kind of pressure, if any, that Dovi could have put the Hondas under. As Marquez showed, he's not infallible and is susceptible to mistakes. One thing was certain, he couldn't apply any pressure when stuck behind Lorenzo

They all made mistakes, showing it's not just "pressure" that makes them make mistakes. Marquez make a mistake when in position to throw the title away. And Dovizioso made one when Marquez was behind him.

As long as Dovizioso was not in a position to take the title, I don't see why Lorenzo would feel obliged to give up his position. It would have altered nothing in the championship standings.

At the point in time that he was holding Dovi up there was just no way of knowing what could happen. It's not like Lorenzo could read the future

The end result is not the point. It's about maximising the chances of influencing the end result. Lorenzo didn't allow Dovi maximise his chances to influence Marquez's result. And all that is aside from the fact he ignored a direct instruction from his team

I already made my point about pressure, which only leaves your remark about a direct instruction from the team. You know I would much prefer no team orders ever, but I propose that next time Ducati drop the word "suggested" from any team orders.

I don't honestly know whether team orders are allowed in MotoGP, so perhaps they have to phrase it that way, but that still would not alter my views on team orders. I also doubt Dovizioso would have been much more successful against Pedrosa, than he was against the sister bike.

Yeah, you acknowledged that pressure is one of the things that causes mistakes, which would ordinarily make me think you're in agreement with me
But then you went on saying it would have been pointless to give Dovi the chance to apply any pressure, which leaves me confused about your response

mcdo wrote:

Fiki wrote:

mcdo wrote:

Fiki wrote:

mcdo wrote:Nobody knows what kind of pressure, if any, that Dovi could have put the Hondas under. As Marquez showed, he's not infallible and is susceptible to mistakes. One thing was certain, he couldn't apply any pressure when stuck behind Lorenzo

They all made mistakes, showing it's not just "pressure" that makes them make mistakes. Marquez make a mistake when in position to throw the title away. And Dovizioso made one when Marquez was behind him.

As long as Dovizioso was not in a position to take the title, I don't see why Lorenzo would feel obliged to give up his position. It would have altered nothing in the championship standings.

At the point in time that he was holding Dovi up there was just no way of knowing what could happen. It's not like Lorenzo could read the future

The end result is not the point. It's about maximising the chances of influencing the end result. Lorenzo didn't allow Dovi maximise his chances to influence Marquez's result. And all that is aside from the fact he ignored a direct instruction from his team

I already made my point about pressure, which only leaves your remark about a direct instruction from the team. You know I would much prefer no team orders ever, but I propose that next time Ducati drop the word "suggested" from any team orders.

I don't honestly know whether team orders are allowed in MotoGP, so perhaps they have to phrase it that way, but that still would not alter my views on team orders. I also doubt Dovizioso would have been much more successful against Pedrosa, than he was against the sister bike.

Yeah, you acknowledged that pressure is one of the things that causes mistakes, which would ordinarily make me think you're in agreement with me
But then you went on saying it would have been pointless to give Dovi the chance to apply any pressure, which leaves me confused about your response

I more or less acknowledged that pressure can make you commit errors, but tell me what kind of pressure by Dovizioso could make Marquez finish outside the top 11 (if I understood correctly)? The fairly serious error he did make, came when there was near-zero pressure.

By the way, I was hoping Dovizioso would win the championship for most of this year. He really, really merited the title. But he first had to win it, which he didn't.