Ferrari F1 team says Sebastian Vettel must be less agitated

mas · Post by **mas** » Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:34 pm

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... d--ferrari

Did they not notice how emotional he was against Webber ?!

Black_Flag_11 · Post by **Black_Flag_11** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 1:25 am

I don't think having a driver who is happy to sit back and watch the team struggle is what Ferrari need. Vettel cares about winning with Ferrari and as so he became very obviously frustrated when the team faltered, IMO they need that.

That said simply getting angry about it isn't enough, it shows the passion for the team's success is there but he also needs to keep performing. He dropped off halfway through this year which was particularly evident in qualifying.

mas · Post by **mas** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:40 am

Ferrari were talking about personal feuds like the one Vettel now has with Vestappen which is not dissimilar to the one he had with Webber. He's also got to stop this amateurish lunging which often leads to accidents.
Vettel cracks a bit under pressure and he's been under more pressure this season with the car suiting Kimi more and Red Bull resurging in both car and drivers. Both these trends will probably continue next year with the thicker tyres helping Kimi's sensitivity and Red Bull aerodynamics coming more to the fore. He's got to mature quickly next year if he still wants to get paid 20 million the following year because he's not showing he's worth that this year.

sandman1347 · Post by **sandman1347** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:49 am

This is the rub when it comes to driving for Ferrari, isn't it? It's the team everyone wants to drive for and the most prestigious, and when things are going well, it's as good as it gets. The problem is that when things are not going well, if you speak up about it, they will make it seem like you're a jerk. Same thing happened to Alonso after a while.

Ultimately, Sebastian was understandably upset last season. The team had slipped backwards after such a promising 2015. Instead of challenging Mercedes they were caught by Red Bull. You can find fault with the way he voiced his displeasure at times but not with him being displeased.

Blake · Post by **Blake** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:50 am

mas wrote:Ferrari were talking about personal feuds like the one Vettel now has with Vestappen which is not dissimilar to the one he had with Webber. He's also got to stop this amateurish lunging which often leads to accidents.
Vettel cracks a bit under pressure and he's been under more pressure this season with the car suiting Kimi more and Red Bull resurging in both car and drivers. Both these trends will probably continue next year with the thicker tyres helping Kimi's sensitivity and Red Bull aerodynamics coming more to the fore. He's got to mature quickly next year if he still wants to get paid 20 million the following year because he's not showing he's worth that this year.

WOW....

What a pathetic example of a driver Vettel must be. Seriously... personal feuds? I thought most drivers had a feud with Max given the way he "defended".

Seb didn't have the best of years... for him. I have no doubt that he would admit that. However, I would agree with Ferrari that he needs to control his emotions better... and I have little doubt that Seb would admit that as well. Still, the man can drive... I suspect he will be doing a fine example of just that in 2017

Covalent · Post by **Covalent** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:24 am

mas wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... d--ferrari

Did they not notice how emotional he was against Webber ?!

I think you're also acting a bit emotional towards Vettel based on the few threads I've seen you commentating in?

mds · Post by **mds** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:25 am

mas wrote: Vettel cracks a bit under pressure

? he really doesn't. 2010, 2012 he was probably under a lot more pressure as there was much more at stake and that was exactly when he delivered. In 2014 he kept composed even though being beaten, he handled that very well.
But now he has a somewhat lesser second half of the season in 2016 with a few bumps along the way and suddenly there's this narrative of "cracking under pressure". Please.

Lotus49 · Post by **Lotus49** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:32 am

Yeah there is a big difference in showing a bit too much frustration at times to cracking under pressure. Haven't seen any thing like cracking under pressure from him at all, all throughout his career.

You can understand the frustration as well. Marchionne made some bold aims to challenge Mercedes this year and they end up losing their Technical Director and falling behind Red Bull and end up even further from Mercedes than last year.

Understandable really.

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:45 am

Vettel does tend to complain a lot when in the car, which is not his best feature. He can come over as petulant, so I can partially understand the comments.

However, I'm really not a fan of managers who talk about their drivers publicly in this way. I think it's really unprofessional to talk about drivers having to earn their place and how Ferrari are looking at other options. To me it sends a message of no confidence and I don't think it's classy to do that in such a public forum. There's been a lot of talk about loyalty on other threads and I'd question why a driver should consider being loyal to a team that discusses him openly in such a manner.

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 8:47 am

Zoue wrote:Vettel does tend to complain a lot when in the car, which is not his best feature. He can come over as petulant, so I can partially understand the comments.

However, I'm really not a fan of managers who talk about their drivers publicly in this way. I think it's really unprofessional to talk about drivers having to earn their place and how Ferrari are looking at other options. To me it sends a message of no confidence and I don't think it's classy to do that in such a public forum. There's been a lot of talk about loyalty on other threads and I'd question why a driver should consider being loyal to a team that discusses him openly in such a manner.

Especially when the team itself is hardly performing above expectations.

mas · Post by **mas** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:22 pm

mds wrote:
mas wrote: Vettel cracks a bit under pressure
? he really doesn't. 2010, 2012 he was probably under a lot more pressure as there was much more at stake and that was exactly when he delivered. In 2014 he kept composed even though being beaten, he handled that very well.
But now he has a somewhat lesser second half of the season in 2016 with a few bumps along the way and suddenly there's this narrative of "cracking under pressure". Please.

When Webber was matching him it showed but once he got the better handle of those double diffuser v8 red bulls he felt supremely confident against both his teammate and the competition. Agreed he took his lumps against Ricciardo well but he had no choice after having no idea how to be more competitive in that 2014 hybrid red bull after exhausting possibilities like cracked chassis.

mas · Post by **mas** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:32 pm

Covalent wrote:
mas wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... d--ferrari
Did they not notice how emotional he was against Webber ?!
I think you're also acting a bit emotional towards Vettel based on the few threads I've seen you commentating in?

Hardly, I remember a thread where I argued, along with zoue, that if the 2015 Ferrari suited him he could fly which hardly paints me as an emotional basher. Unlike Hamilton Vettel has not matured emotionally with time and he really needs to if he wants to show his best, it's adversely affecting his and others race results and is unbecoming of a 4 time wdc. Ferrari were right to issue the admonishment as they deserve better race judgement from him.

Siao7 · Post by **Siao7** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:04 pm

Zoue wrote:Vettel does tend to complain a lot when in the car, which is not his best feature. He can come over as petulant, so I can partially understand the comments.

However, I'm really not a fan of managers who talk about their drivers publicly in this way. I think it's really unprofessional to talk about drivers having to earn their place and how Ferrari are looking at other options. To me it sends a message of no confidence and I don't think it's classy to do that in such a public forum. There's been a lot of talk about loyalty on other threads and I'd question why a driver should consider being loyal to a team that discusses him openly in such a manner.

True. If he has an issue with him, he can call him in his office and discuss. These public statements are just poor taste

Invade · Post by **Invade** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:54 pm

Zoue wrote:Vettel does tend to complain a lot when in the car, which is not his best feature. He can come over as petulant, so I can partially understand the comments.

However, I'm really not a fan of managers who talk about their drivers publicly in this way. I think it's really unprofessional to talk about drivers having to earn their place and how Ferrari are looking at other options. To me it sends a message of no confidence and I don't think it's classy to do that in such a public forum. There's been a lot of talk about loyalty on other threads and I'd question why a driver should consider being loyal to a team that discusses him openly in such a manner.

Indeed - I couldn't put it any better.

ohwell · Post by **ohwell** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:51 pm

How about Ferrari actually do what they're supposed to be great at, and make a car that can actually go faster than a tractor trailer and then talk about Vettel. They're responsible for wasting 4(?) years of Alonso's best years, 3 and counting of Vettels. Even if people aren't convinced about Vettel, Alonso is by far regarded as the best driver on the grid. Instead of trying to put their drivers under more pressure, maybe Sergio should try figuring out what the hell is wrong with the team that over a majority of the last 10 yeas couldn't build the fastest car for the season. Far from it.

ohwell · Post by **ohwell** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:53 pm

Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:Vettel does tend to complain a lot when in the car, which is not his best feature. He can come over as petulant, so I can partially understand the comments.

However, I'm really not a fan of managers who talk about their drivers publicly in this way. I think it's really unprofessional to talk about drivers having to earn their place and how Ferrari are looking at other options. To me it sends a message of no confidence and I don't think it's classy to do that in such a public forum. There's been a lot of talk about loyalty on other threads and I'd question why a driver should consider being loyal to a team that discusses him openly in such a manner.
True. If he has an issue with him, he can call him in his office and discuss. These public statements are just poor taste

Ferrari don't make it very easy for fans to support them.

Colesy917 · Post by **Colesy917** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:16 pm

mas wrote:Hardly, I remember a thread where I argued, along with zoue, that if the 2015 Ferrari suited him he could fly which hardly paints me as an emotional basher. Unlike Hamilton Vettel has not matured emotionally with time and he really needs to if he wants to show his best, it's adversely affecting his and others race results and is unbecoming of a 4 time wdc. Ferrari were right to issue the admonishment as they deserve better race judgement from him.

I'm really not convinced that Hamilton should be used as the poster boy for emotional maturity...

I understand where Ferrari are coming from, but agree that these things should be kept private. It's a little ironic that the "passion" team of F1 is getting upset about their driver showing emotion.

Lt. Drebin · Post by **Lt. Drebin** » Wed Dec 21, 2016 10:19 pm

The only way to "cure" Vettel is to give him a fast car, and 2016 Ferrari wasn't. So, try better medicine, Ferrari!

GingerFurball · Post by **GingerFurball** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:27 am

mds wrote:
mas wrote: Vettel cracks a bit under pressure
? he really doesn't. 2010, 2012 he was probably under a lot more pressure as there was much more at stake and that was exactly when he delivered. In 2014 he kept composed even though being beaten, he handled that very well.
But now he has a somewhat lesser second half of the season in 2016 with a few bumps along the way and suddenly there's this narrative of "cracking under pressure". Please.

Vettel wasn't under any pressure in 2010.

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:07 am

GingerFurball wrote:
mds wrote:
mas wrote: Vettel cracks a bit under pressure
? he really doesn't. 2010, 2012 he was probably under a lot more pressure as there was much more at stake and that was exactly when he delivered. In 2014 he kept composed even though being beaten, he handled that very well.
But now he has a somewhat lesser second half of the season in 2016 with a few bumps along the way and suddenly there's this narrative of "cracking under pressure". Please.
Vettel wasn't under any pressure in 2010.

Of course he was

F1Oz · Post by **F1Oz** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:38 am

He was given licence to be idiotic at Red Bull who supported him regardless of whether he was wrong or right -and generally when he was wrong.

Now he has to perform and isn't granted excuses - no issue surely given how much money Ferrari is paying him?

Zoue · Post by **Zoue** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:40 am

F1Oz wrote:He was given licence to be idiotic at Red Bull who supported him regardless of whether he was wrong or right -and generally when he was wrong.

Now he has to perform and isn't granted excuses - no issue surely given how much money Ferrari is paying him?

I have no idea what this post means

Paolo_Lasardi · Post by **Paolo_Lasardi** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:52 am

Marchionne seems to be a huge Räikkönen fan, whereas the honeymoon with Vettel appears to be over - much quicker than I ever thought it would.

mds · Post by **mds** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:25 am

mas wrote: When Webber was matching him it showed

I don't think he did, you're probably referring to a rather brief period in 2012 where Webber briefly led Vettel in the standings because the latter had his tyre slashed in Malaysia by Karthikeyan and dropped out from the lead in Spain due to mechanical problems.
Even if you would make a case for him performing somewhat less than his usual standards, I don't see where he "cracked". Unless you automatically equal "cracking" to "performing somewhat less than usual"?

Agreed he took his lumps against Ricciardo well but he had no choice after having no idea how to be more competitive in that 2014 hybrid red bull after exhausting possibilities like cracked chassis.

So there he didn't crack either.

Any actual signs of him cracking?

mds · Post by **mds** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:28 am

F1Oz wrote:He was given licence to be idiotic at Red Bull who supported him regardless of whether he was wrong or right -and generally when he was wrong.

Now he has to perform and isn't granted excuses - no issue surely given how much money Ferrari is paying him?

He isn't making excuses either. Also, it's time to discard those sour grapes, Webber has left F1 a few years ago. And he was also cut some serious slack by RBR at times, by the way.

davidheath461 · Post by **davidheath461** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:12 am

sandman1347 wrote:This is the rub when it comes to driving for Ferrari, isn't it? It's the team everyone wants to drive for and the most prestigious, and when things are going well, it's as good as it gets. The problem is that when things are not going well, if you speak up about it, they will make it seem like you're a jerk. Same thing happened to Alonso after a while.

Ultimately, Sebastian was understandably upset last season. The team had slipped backwards after such a promising 2015. Instead of challenging Mercedes they were caught by Red Bull. You can find fault with the way he voiced his displeasure at times but not with him being displeased.

Well Alonso only started to lose patience during his 4th season with the team. When he was in his 2nd season, he signed a new contract and was whooping on the radio when he got 4th in Barcelona. The 2011 car was definitely worse than the 2016 car.

Vettel may have been upset with the car, but he needs to look at himself; his qualifying was not good enough and he got involved in too many first lap incidents.

Covalent · Post by **Covalent** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 10:21 am

mas wrote:
Covalent wrote:
mas wrote:http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... d--ferrari
Did they not notice how emotional he was against Webber ?!
I think you're also acting a bit emotional towards Vettel based on the few threads I've seen you commentating in?
Hardly, I remember a thread where I argued, along with zoue, that if the 2015 Ferrari suited him he could fly which hardly paints me as an emotional basher. Unlike Hamilton Vettel has not matured emotionally with time and he really needs to if he wants to show his best, it's adversely affecting his and others race results and is unbecoming of a 4 time wdc. Ferrari were right to issue the admonishment as they deserve better race judgement from him.

So one thread where you are not bashing him, well that rules out all suspicions

Randine · Post by **Randine** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:38 pm

ohwell wrote:How about Ferrari actually do what they're supposed to be great at, and make a car that can actually go faster than a tractor trailer and then talk about Vettel. They're responsible for wasting 4(?) years of Alonso's best years, 3 and counting of Vettels. Even if people aren't convinced about Vettel, Alonso is by far regarded as the best driver on the grid. Instead of trying to put their drivers under more pressure, maybe Sergio should try figuring out what the hell is wrong with the team that over a majority of the last 10 yeas couldn't build the fastest car for the season. Far from it.

One thing that has changed is people's perception of Alonso and his time at Ferrari now Vettel is also not winning.
Alonso was in the WDC fight up till the last race in 2 of his 4 years at Ferrari.
I think everyone was expecting Vettel to work miracles at Ferrari.

It does seem at times Vettel is trying too hard, which is not quite the same as cracking under pressure.
If he had the car that could win, then he would do exactly that.

I am sure it is the Ferrari pressure, but also the realisation that he was very lucky to be in the fastest car on the grid for 4 or 5 years.

Robot · Post by **Robot** » Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:20 pm

Randine wrote:
ohwell wrote: One thing that has changed is people's perception of Alonso and his time at Ferrari now Vettel is also not winning.

The real winner of Vettel going to Ferrari is Alonso, specially if Vettel leaves the team after 2017 with no titles. Ferrari and the Italian press demonized Alonso and sold Vettel as the saviour, now they are eating some crow, I can't say I'm sad for them.

jrwb6e · Post by **jrwb6e** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:52 pm

Robot wrote:The real winner of Vettel going to Ferrari is Alonso, specially if Vettel leaves the team after 2017 with no titles. Ferrari and the Italian press demonized Alonso and sold Vettel as the saviour, now they are eating some crow, I can't say I'm sad for them.

Any team that refuses to give its star driver a pay raise but pays even more to downgrade is undeserving of pity.

slide · Post by **slide** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:02 pm

well I for one will miss vettel radio - just when a race was getting settled in and getting boring , out pops vettel radio and brings back the excitement , and as the first driver DJ on the grid we should give them all a constant live radio feed so we can keep in touch with driver feeling

Invade · Post by **Invade** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:48 pm

Does Vettel realise how he's coming across when conducting those tirades? Maybe he values the show.

However, in things that matter, I don't think Vettel is immature - nor Hamilton.

Vettel has had his team's back and has shouldered a lot of responsibility for them and yet Ferrari decided to speak about him like this anyway, which I found to be quite disrespectful in nature.

slide · Post by **slide** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:20 pm

Ferrari will find many problems when they are not winning , and sunshine will return when the winning comes back vettel will not be there long term

nixxxon · Post by **nixxxon** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:47 pm

So this is mostly the true face of a driver you see when he's struggling with the 3rd best car instead of having the best car by some distance like in the red bull days. Its all smiles and happiness when you're winning, but when you're not...

Paolo_Lasardi · Post by **Paolo_Lasardi** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:55 pm

Maybe Vettel should stop hanging his balls into the pool and start working hard.

Covalent · Post by **Covalent** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:23 pm

Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Maybe Vettel should stop hanging his balls into the pool and start working hard.

Ouch

jeffw · Post by **jeffw** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:31 pm

Or perhaps Vettle "hints at Ferrari disrespect".... there is one for you.

All of this is in the media is pure BS...

Exediron · Post by **Exediron** » Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:47 pm

Covalent wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:Maybe Vettel should stop hanging his balls into the pool and start working hard.
Ouch

He must really regret saying that by now!

mas · Post by **mas** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:18 am

mds wrote:
mas wrote: When Webber was matching him it showed
I don't think he did, you're probably referring to a rather brief period in 2012 where Webber briefly led Vettel in the standings because the latter had his tyre slashed in Malaysia by Karthikeyan and dropped out from the lead in Spain due to mechanical problems.
Even if you would make a case for him performing somewhat less than his usual standards, I don't see where he "cracked". Unless you automatically equal "cracking" to "performing somewhat less than usual"?

Agreed he took his lumps against Ricciardo well but he had no choice after having no idea how to be more competitive in that 2014 hybrid red bull after exhausting possibilities like cracked chassis.
So there he didn't crack either.

Any actual signs of him cracking?

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2010/08/ ... crash-kid/

You can tell when he's cracking by the number of avoidable crashes he gets into and 2010 and 2016 showed that.

mas · Post by **mas** » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:35 am

Colesy917 wrote:
mas wrote:Hardly, I remember a thread where I argued, along with zoue, that if the 2015 Ferrari suited him he could fly which hardly paints me as an emotional basher. Unlike Hamilton Vettel has not matured emotionally with time and he really needs to if he wants to show his best, it's adversely affecting his and others race results and is unbecoming of a 4 time wdc. Ferrari were right to issue the admonishment as they deserve better race judgement from him.
I'm really not convinced that Hamilton should be used as the poster boy for emotional maturity...

I understand where Ferrari are coming from, but agree that these things should be kept private. It's a little ironic that the "passion" team of F1 is getting upset about their driver showing emotion.

I mentioned Hamilton because on track now he's a quantum leap cooler from the immature performances he
displayed in 2011 whereas Vettel does not seem to have matured from the crash kid he was in 2010.