Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

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babararacucudada
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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by babararacucudada »

Pest44 wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:
Pest44 wrote:It's hard to believe that there's so much discontent within Merc after all the success they've had. I'm surprised they would let Lowe go so easily. Remember when Ferrari and Schumacher were dominating in the early noughties they always kept the same team together which brought so much success. If they let Lowe go and replace him with Allison then I think it's a big risk. Whilst we all know Allison is highly rated it's still a big risk to break up the technical team that has dominated F1 like never before.
I didn't think Lowe brought a lot from McLaren to Mercedes. IMO the bigger issue would be Lowe taking what he learned at Mercedes somewhere else.
He must have brought something to the team. If after 2014 they lost performance to the other teams then I would agree with you but if anything they became stronger in 2015 and 2016. Saying Lowe didn't bring much is harsh on him. I think breaking that team up is always a big risk
He would have brought extensive F1 experience, but McLaren had not been particularly successful in the previous years, so my main point was that there would not have been much in terms of technical advantages to take from McLaren to Mercedes. After 3 years at Mercedes, Lowe should have quite a lot of technical information that would be useful to some other teams.

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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by Exediron »

babararacucudada wrote:He would have brought extensive F1 experience, but McLaren had not been particularly successful in the previous years, so my main point was that there would not have been much in terms of technical advantages to take from McLaren to Mercedes. After 3 years at Mercedes, Lowe should have quite a lot of technical information that would be useful to some other teams.
I realize it's become fashionable to pretend that McLaren has always been a backmarker - but they had the best car as recently as 2012, and were never out of the top three for decades before that. And, perhaps coincidentally, their fall from grace coincides precisely with when Lowe left the team...
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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by moby »

Exediron wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:He would have brought extensive F1 experience, but McLaren had not been particularly successful in the previous years, so my main point was that there would not have been much in terms of technical advantages to take from McLaren to Mercedes. After 3 years at Mercedes, Lowe should have quite a lot of technical information that would be useful to some other teams.
I realize it's become fashionable to pretend that McLaren has always been a backmarker - but they had the best car as recently as 2012, and were never out of the top three for decades before that. And, perhaps coincidentally, their fall from grace coincides precisely with when Lowe left the team...
Or maybe Paddy leaving coincided with something else internal that was the start of the fall.?

I dont think Mclaren recovered from being told they can uses some things in their design book as it was too close to something Ferrari were working on. This seemed t make them lose direction, maybe Paddy also felt uncomfortable with it or maybe too restricted in his available options?

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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by shoot999 »

Obviously comes with the usual health warning with respect to motorsport.com; but they are claiming multiple sources are now indicating Lowe will leave for Williams. As he is at the end of his contract Mercedes cannot impose gardening leave.
The desire for 'greater responsibilities' has being mentioned; which seemed to be one of the sticking points at Mercedes.

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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by Rockie »

Badgeronimous wrote:Losing Lowe and gaining Allison isn't really a loss as such.

He is being replaced by somebody as good, if not better.
Considering Allison designed the '16 Ferrari, I say losing Lowe will be a big loss!

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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by Jezza13 »

Motorsport.com report the move to Williams is pretty much a done deal, citing, in that grand tradition of trashy womens magazines the world round, reports from"multiple sources".

If these multiple sources are right, then it will be Allison to Merc.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merce ... ch-858449/

Now, if we could only get these comments from "multiple sources" confirmed by a "team insider" then we could pretty much be sure it's legit.
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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by Jezza13 »

Jezza13 wrote:Motorsport.com report the move to Williams is pretty much a done deal, citing, in that grand tradition of trashy womens magazines the world round, reports from"multiple sources".

If these multiple sources are right, then it will be Allison to Merc.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merce ... ch-858449/

Now, if we could only get these comments from "multiple sources" confirmed by a "team insider" then we could pretty much be sure it's legit.
From the "Who's it gunna be?" thread
Iamo wrote: Williams reject Bottas move, Bottas seems like first choice...

Lowe also going to Williams it seems...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/38282791
Aaaannndd there we have it folks.

"Allison has had talks with Mercedes and is said by senior insiders to have agreed a deal to run the technical and design side of the team"

So it's definitely Allison off the Merc and Lowe to Williams then.
Last edited by Jezza13 on Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

Part of the reason Paddy is leaving is because part of his deal moving to Mercedes included power in the team, rather than continuing just a hired hand as he was at recedes. With Zak Brown just being given the position with the highest power in all of McLaren I highly doubt he'd hire Lowe and give him any kind of "real" power within the team.

More than likely moving to Williams would give him some actual power with all his decades of experience and Claire slowly taking over the team from her dad and Patrick Head also stepping down. Shame this didn't happen sooner as Bottas and Massa might have had a real shot at being in top cars.

Oh well. Hope to see Paddy at Williams and them improving as has been the case in his career.
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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by AravJ »

I rate Lowe highly, but think Williams will be a mistake, even if it is for more power.
Whats the point of being in a powerful position is you don't have the freedom with limited recourses.
I would think it would be better he go to maclaren, if they can offer him a sweet deal, albeit not a ultimate one.
Maclaren brought out new parts at almost every race, Williams meanwhile has been going backwards

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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by stevey »

how good is Allison? I cant really remember his stand outs.

I've heard the name a lot and seen he has been around the block once or twice but is he the newey that all other teams seem to be after?

Also is feel Lowe going to Williams is a step backwards for him. Williams are never going to put the funds in needed in order to win a championship these days.

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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by Randine »

stevey wrote:how good is Allison? I cant really remember his stand outs.

I've heard the name a lot and seen he has been around the block once or twice but is he the newey that all other teams seem to be after?

Also is feel Lowe going to Williams is a step backwards for him. Williams are never going to put the funds in needed in order to win a championship these days.
I'm also not too sure about Alison's credentials.
I really don't know how good he is.
Could this be the beginning of the downfall of Merc?

I guess for Lowe, moving to Williams is a huge challenge. I would love to see them be at the front again one day, but I seriously doubt whether they can compete with the big guys.
I predict they could be as low as 8th in the constructors in 2017 unless they have a big turnaround.
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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by moby »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:Part of the reason Paddy is leaving is because part of his deal moving to Mercedes included power in the team, rather than continuing just a hired hand as he was at recedes. With Zak Brown just being given the position with the highest power in all of McLaren I highly doubt he'd hire Lowe and give him any kind of "real" power within the team.

More than likely moving to Williams would give him some actual power with all his decades of experience and Claire slowly taking over the team from her dad and Patrick Head also stepping down. Shame this didn't happen sooner as Bottas and Massa might have had a real shot at being in top cars.

Oh well. Hope to see Paddy at Williams and them improving as has been the case in his career.
I read (or maybe an audio blog?) a couple of weeks ago where he was saying he wanted freedom to do his thing rather than have to work to someone else structure, but have searched and can not find it.
This it the first thing I recalled when I saw the article, so it makes sense.

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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

AravJ wrote:I rate Lowe highly, but think Williams will be a mistake, even if it is for more power.
Whats the point of being in a powerful position is you don't have the freedom with limited recourses.
I would think it would be better he go to maclaren, if they can offer him a sweet deal, albeit not a ultimate one.
Maclaren brought out new parts at almost every race, Williams meanwhile has been going backwards
Two things here…

Because Williams have a smaller budget, brilliant minds welcome it as a greater challenge, so that may very well be even greater motivation for Lowe moving to Williams.

Lotus proved a few seasons back that a team with a smaller budget can indeed design and build a superb car that can compete for wins.
With Williams' staff and experience in building cars, Lowe might be all they need to unlock what they've been missing. Lowe has a vastly intimate knowledge of ALL Mercedes' systems and he knows the 2017 car quite well. It may be too late to apply some of these things to Williams' 2017 car, but for 2018 Lowe's expertise might help them produce on of the best cars. And for me, with the shaking up the new rules provide, it's far from certain that Mercedes will continue to dominate. The new specs could very well throw their car off balance tremendously, while at the same time help other teams' cars find the right balance they've been lacking.
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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by moby »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
AravJ wrote:I rate Lowe highly, but think Williams will be a mistake, even if it is for more power.
Whats the point of being in a powerful position is you don't have the freedom with limited recourses.
I would think it would be better he go to maclaren, if they can offer him a sweet deal, albeit not a ultimate one.
Maclaren brought out new parts at almost every race, Williams meanwhile has been going backwards
Two things here…

Because Williams have a smaller budget, brilliant minds welcome it as a greater challenge, so that may very well be even greater motivation for Lowe moving to Williams.

Lotus proved a few seasons back that a team with a smaller budget can indeed design and build a superb car that can compete for wins.
With Williams' staff and experience in building cars, Lowe might be all they need to unlock what they've been missing. Lowe has a vastly intimate knowledge of ALL Mercedes' systems and he knows the 2017 car quite well. It may be too late to apply some of these things to Williams' 2017 car, but for 2018 Lowe's expertise might help them produce on of the best cars. And for me, with the shaking up the new rules provide, it's far from certain that Mercedes will continue to dominate. The new specs could very well throw their car off balance tremendously, while at the same time help other teams' cars find the right balance they've been lacking.

But if he left Merc because wanted more input into the design, would he go the same path as Merc? Possibly he sees the Merc design as some sort of dead end? Then again, if they can get an interim car as good as this years Merc, I suppose he should bite the bullet and take a notepad to bed incase he remembers things :]

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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

Not necessarily as I'm sure he will recognize the good in the Williams design and then likely try to incorporate the superior qualities of the Mercedes he knows to be the major reasons as to that car's performance advantage. I do agree he better take a note pad to bed though, or if he's like me, to the bathroom when he showers, as the tranquility of running water and the relaxation of the sound tends to open my thought processing neurons. In fact, that's where I came up with the Flux Capacitor! LOL
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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by AFCTUJacko »

Rockie wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:Losing Lowe and gaining Allison isn't really a loss as such.

He is being replaced by somebody as good, if not better.
Considering Allison designed the '16 Ferrari, I say losing Lowe will be a big loss!
Hardly fair. Lowe designed the 2013 McLaren which was a far bigger disaster. Ferrari have issues far beyond the scope of one man.

Allison is at least on a Par with Lowe IMO. The 2012/13 Lotus were superb cars, only bettered by Neweys Red Bulls.
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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by Lotus49 »

Sky Sports News saying Paddy has left Mercedes and will join Williams. I think Bottas will be confirmed in the other direction next couple of days then.
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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by Lotus49 »

Williams are showing some good ambition here, Amus are still saying James Key will also be joining when he leaves STR(I think 2018). Stroll money giving them an up to date sim and the prospect of a Technical Department boasting Lowe and Key is not to be sniffed at.

Is this the biggest step yet of a Williams resurgence I wonder.

EDIT: Motorsport now reporting it.

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/lowe- ... am-864295/
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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by shoot999 »

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/merced ... otorsport/

It will be interesting to see who is on the wall come race day; and whether they will be running the race or being made to look a pillock by those inside the garage.

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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by Lotus49 »

shoot999 wrote:https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/merced ... otorsport/

It will be interesting to see who is on the wall come race day; and whether they will be running the race or being made to look a pillock by those inside the garage.
Costa on the wall until James Allison joins in April is my guess.
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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by silverelise »

Exediron wrote:I realize it's become fashionable to pretend that McLaren has always been a backmarker - but they had the best car as recently as 2012, and were never out of the top three for decades before that. And, perhaps coincidentally, their fall from grace coincides precisely with when Lowe left the team...
I thought Mclaren's fall from grace started once Sam Michael joined the team??

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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by Zoue »

moby wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
AravJ wrote:I rate Lowe highly, but think Williams will be a mistake, even if it is for more power.
Whats the point of being in a powerful position is you don't have the freedom with limited recourses.
I would think it would be better he go to maclaren, if they can offer him a sweet deal, albeit not a ultimate one.
Maclaren brought out new parts at almost every race, Williams meanwhile has been going backwards
Two things here…

Because Williams have a smaller budget, brilliant minds welcome it as a greater challenge, so that may very well be even greater motivation for Lowe moving to Williams.

Lotus proved a few seasons back that a team with a smaller budget can indeed design and build a superb car that can compete for wins.
With Williams' staff and experience in building cars, Lowe might be all they need to unlock what they've been missing. Lowe has a vastly intimate knowledge of ALL Mercedes' systems and he knows the 2017 car quite well. It may be too late to apply some of these things to Williams' 2017 car, but for 2018 Lowe's expertise might help them produce on of the best cars. And for me, with the shaking up the new rules provide, it's far from certain that Mercedes will continue to dominate. The new specs could very well throw their car off balance tremendously, while at the same time help other teams' cars find the right balance they've been lacking.

But if he left Merc because wanted more input into the design, would he go the same path as Merc? Possibly he sees the Merc design as some sort of dead end? Then again, if they can get an interim car as good as this years Merc, I suppose he should bite the bullet and take a notepad to bed incase he remembers things :]
My understanding is he left Merc at least partly because he was looking for a TP role

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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
moby wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
AravJ wrote:I rate Lowe highly, but think Williams will be a mistake, even if it is for more power.
Whats the point of being in a powerful position is you don't have the freedom with limited recourses.
I would think it would be better he go to maclaren, if they can offer him a sweet deal, albeit not a ultimate one.
Maclaren brought out new parts at almost every race, Williams meanwhile has been going backwards
Two things here…

Because Williams have a smaller budget, brilliant minds welcome it as a greater challenge, so that may very well be even greater motivation for Lowe moving to Williams.

Lotus proved a few seasons back that a team with a smaller budget can indeed design and build a superb car that can compete for wins.
With Williams' staff and experience in building cars, Lowe might be all they need to unlock what they've been missing. Lowe has a vastly intimate knowledge of ALL Mercedes' systems and he knows the 2017 car quite well. It may be too late to apply some of these things to Williams' 2017 car, but for 2018 Lowe's expertise might help them produce on of the best cars. And for me, with the shaking up the new rules provide, it's far from certain that Mercedes will continue to dominate. The new specs could very well throw their car off balance tremendously, while at the same time help other teams' cars find the right balance they've been lacking.

But if he left Merc because wanted more input into the design, would he go the same path as Merc? Possibly he sees the Merc design as some sort of dead end? Then again, if they can get an interim car as good as this years Merc, I suppose he should bite the bullet and take a notepad to bed incase he remembers things :]
My understanding is he left Merc at least partly because he was looking for a TP role
Yeah I believe Lowe's expertise is in electronics, he is neither a designer or aerodynamist so would kind of show why he would be looking to be a TP, he comes across as being quite a quiet and assuming guy but he obviously is a very ambitious person, apparently £3M a year at Mercedes was not sufficient for him.
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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by POBRatings »

Pest44 wrote:It's hard to believe that there's so much discontent within Merc after all the success they've had. I'm surprised they would let Lowe go so easily. Remember when Ferrari and Schumacher were dominating in the early noughties they always kept the same team together which brought so much success. If they let Lowe go and replace him with Allison then I think it's a big risk. Whilst we all know Allison is highly rated it's still a big risk to break up the technical team that has dominated F1 like never before.
:nod: It does seem risky to me too. But I imagine personalities/likes/dislikes are key here as anywhere. Be good to have Lowe back to help McLaren.

What is happening at Williams that Pat Symonds left? Is this connected to their sliding down the order?

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Re: Paddy Lowe leaves Mercedes?- motorsport.com(Italy)

Post by mikeyg123 »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
moby wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
AravJ wrote:I rate Lowe highly, but think Williams will be a mistake, even if it is for more power.
Whats the point of being in a powerful position is you don't have the freedom with limited recourses.
I would think it would be better he go to maclaren, if they can offer him a sweet deal, albeit not a ultimate one.
Maclaren brought out new parts at almost every race, Williams meanwhile has been going backwards
Two things here…

Because Williams have a smaller budget, brilliant minds welcome it as a greater challenge, so that may very well be even greater motivation for Lowe moving to Williams.

Lotus proved a few seasons back that a team with a smaller budget can indeed design and build a superb car that can compete for wins.
With Williams' staff and experience in building cars, Lowe might be all they need to unlock what they've been missing. Lowe has a vastly intimate knowledge of ALL Mercedes' systems and he knows the 2017 car quite well. It may be too late to apply some of these things to Williams' 2017 car, but for 2018 Lowe's expertise might help them produce on of the best cars. And for me, with the shaking up the new rules provide, it's far from certain that Mercedes will continue to dominate. The new specs could very well throw their car off balance tremendously, while at the same time help other teams' cars find the right balance they've been lacking.

But if he left Merc because wanted more input into the design, would he go the same path as Merc? Possibly he sees the Merc design as some sort of dead end? Then again, if they can get an interim car as good as this years Merc, I suppose he should bite the bullet and take a notepad to bed incase he remembers things :]
My understanding is he left Merc at least partly because he was looking for a TP role
Yeah I believe Lowe's expertise is in electronics, he is neither a designer or aerodynamist so would kind of show why he would be looking to be a TP, he comes across as being quite a quiet and assuming guy but he obviously is a very ambitious person, apparently £3M a year at Mercedes was not sufficient for him.
Or he's not happy working within the team.

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