Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

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mds
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Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by mds »

That time of the year again :)

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/127328
1 Lewis Hamilton, 234 points (No change)
2 Max Verstappen, 183 (Up two places)
3 Nico Rosberg, 176 (No change)
4 Daniel Ricciardo, 133 (Up five)
5 Sebastian Vettel, 90 (Down three)
6 Fernando Alonso, 67 (No change)
7 Kimi Raikkonen, 61 (Up three)
8 Sergio Perez, 52 (No change)
9 Valtteri Bottas, 26 (Down two)
10 Carlos Sainz Jr, 25 (New entry)
Interesting, no? I wonder which criteria the team bosses have in mind when judging, because this top 10 is not at all what I would expect or make for myself.

- Hamilton #1: yeah... there are a few drivers that probably did more or better given the material. Not that Hamilton was bad, but with the bad starts and the few bad racing weekends he did have, I don't think this is correct. Would rank him below Alonso at least and probably below Ricciardo.
- Verstappen #2: as much as I'm a fan, and as much as I am convinced he has enormous potential, overall he's made a bit more errors than his team mate and so hasn't collected as much points. Would rank him below Ricciardo but with a good outlook for the coming years.
- Rosberg #3: no. Sure he wrapped up the title, but he made quite a lot of errors and overall didn't perform as well as his teammate. Voted too high by quite a few places imo.
- Vettel #5: again, as much as I'm a fan, don't think he should be above Alonso and maybe even Perez

Alonso > Ricciardo > Hamilton > Verstappen > Perez/Vettel > Raikkonen would probably be much closer to the reality. Sainz would fit in here somewhere but not sure where exactly I should place him.

Your thoughts?
Go Vandoorne :( - Verstappen - Vettel!

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froze
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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by froze »

mds wrote:Alonso > Ricciardo > Hamilton > Verstappen > Perez/Vettel > Raikkonen would probably be much closer to the reality. Sainz would fit in here somewhere but not sure where exactly I should place him.

Your thoughts?
I can agree with your top 4, but Raikkonen and Perez over Rosberg? Really?
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mds
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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by mds »

froze wrote:
mds wrote:Alonso > Ricciardo > Hamilton > Verstappen > Perez/Vettel > Raikkonen would probably be much closer to the reality. Sainz would fit in here somewhere but not sure where exactly I should place him.

Your thoughts?
I can agree with your top 4, but Raikkonen and Perez over Rosberg? Really?
:lol: I forgot to place Rosberg in there.

Would put Rosberg together with Perez and Vettel, I think.
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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by minchy »

I think some of the criteria the team bosses must look at is marketability and possible sponsorship income as well as simply driver performance. Hamilton has the potential to market products in more than just his home country, which must be a plus for most teams.
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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Herb »

It's funny, I really have become an Alonso fan since he left Ferrari.

However, I am not sure about all the Alonso praise he is receiving this year on this forum.

There were certainly weekends when he extracted more out of the car than many others could, and he handily outperformed Button. But there were some weekends where he was anonymous - the problem I have is that it could have been the car not being suited to that particular track, but it could also just as much been him being off-form. There isn't a sure way of knowing.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by mds »

minchy wrote:I think some of the criteria the team bosses must look at is marketability and possible sponsorship income as well as simply driver performance. Hamilton has the potential to market products in more than just his home country, which must be a plus for most teams.
Good point. Maybe it can be summed up in one sentence? "The driver I would want to have for next season"? :)
Go Vandoorne :( - Verstappen - Vettel!

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Zoue »

It wouldn't be the first time I've questioned these polls. It seems the team bosses are as much influenced by the car a driver has as the general public is. I really don't see what Rosberg did all year that marks him out as any better than e.g. Alonso, or Ricciardo etc. And I'd agree that Hamilton's start issues, coupled with e.g. his Baku performance, would mark him down against the likes of Alonso.

Verstappen has been very exciting and has tremendous talent. But he's been too dangerous too often for me to rate him that highly this year. In terms of potential, he'd be at the very top, and certainly he has managed some very impressive performances. But overall I'd say he's still on a learning curve. And, while I think Vettel has also been pretty impressive overall, he's also made more mistakes than I'd expect and hasn't dominated in qualifying quite like I would have expected him to. Whether that's down to Kimi finding form is difficult to say, but Vettel hasn't shone like I thought he would,

On gut feel, only going on what sticks in my mind, I'd probably go for:

Alonso
Ricciardo
Hamilton
Vettel
Verstappen
Perez
Rosberg/Raikkonen
Sainz

although I'll admit I'm not entirely sure where to place Verstappen yet. I could swap him with Vettel but it's close for me. Bottas felt pretty anonymous for me all season so I might place Hulk above him

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Zoue »

mds wrote:
minchy wrote:I think some of the criteria the team bosses must look at is marketability and possible sponsorship income as well as simply driver performance. Hamilton has the potential to market products in more than just his home country, which must be a plus for most teams.
Good point. Maybe it can be summed up in one sentence? "The driver I would want to have for next season"? :)
well the article states:

Autosport asked all 11 F1 teams' bosses to rank their top 10 drivers, based on on-track performances over this year's 21 races.

so I still don't understand some of the voting!

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Laz_T800 »

I think when we look at these lists we have to bare in mind that the team bosses will have far more data, information and inside information than the armchair fan could possibly have.
Alonso gets a lot of attention from armchair fans because he has had some very good drives through the field this year and looked a lot better than Button.
The question I ask myself is was that because Alonso is a miracle worker or was Jenson just very, very poor.
From the outside it would be a guess.
With inside information a more accurate picture could be formed.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

Quite a bit I don't agree with there, at least in terms of the order of those selected rather than feeling anyone has been omitted. Off the top of my head I'd say a top five of Alonso, Ricciardo, Hamilton, Verstappen and Rosberg.
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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Alonso and Ricciardo combined don't have as many points as Lewis and barely beat Verstappen.

I rarely agree with the bosses poll and this year is no exception.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by SR1 »

Just been checking out Sky Sports, Hamilton takes that too

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... he-f1-year

Back to Team Bosses poll, Rosberg is too high on the list, Ric & Alonso too low (imo).

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by mikeyg123 »

It's about as rubbish as it usually is and I doubt the team bosses take more than 1 second of thought. Far to led by car performance rather than driver. The Mercedes pair would barely make my top 5.

To have Sainz in 10th, the guy who has anialated his team mate far more than any other, as low as 10th is ludicras.
1. Alonso
2. Ricciardo
3. Verstappen
4. Sainz
5. Hamilton
6. Perez
7. Rosberg
8. Vettel
9. Bottas
10. Raikkonen

So actually I pick the same drivers just in a completely different order!

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by mcdo »

Herb wrote:It's funny, I really have become an Alonso fan since he left Ferrari.

However, I am not sure about all the Alonso praise he is receiving this year on this forum.

There were certainly weekends when he extracted more out of the car than many others could, and he handily outperformed Button. But there were some weekends where he was anonymous - the problem I have is that it could have been the car not being suited to that particular track, but it could also just as much been him being off-form. There isn't a sure way of knowing.
I'm an Alonso fan and I'm surprised by the level of praise he's getting. I think he has been superb this year, typically driving at his usual best. But I agree there were some events where he wasn't up to his usual high standard. And a few mistakes crept in this year too

There have been previous years when I thought it was blatantly obvious he was the very best out there and found I had to argue hard to prove it. This year the tables have turned!
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Henri Royce
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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Henri Royce »

I'm so tired of people here putting Alonso first while he has done absolutely nothing special. Alonso is also a driver who is poor in the rain just like Vettel, IMO the best ones are the ones who master the rain/wet conditions.

1. Hamilton
2. Verstappen
3. Ricciardo
4. .....
5. .....

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Ennis »

mds wrote:
minchy wrote:I think some of the criteria the team bosses must look at is marketability and possible sponsorship income as well as simply driver performance. Hamilton has the potential to market products in more than just his home country, which must be a plus for most teams.
Good point. Maybe it can be summed up in one sentence? "The driver I would want to have for next season"? :)
I think TPs are also as guilty as everyone else of ranking based on short memories + car impact too. 4 time WDC Vettel was regularly atop this, and then drops. Has he suddenly become a worse driver?

lamo

Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by lamo »

mcdo wrote:
Herb wrote:It's funny, I really have become an Alonso fan since he left Ferrari.

However, I am not sure about all the Alonso praise he is receiving this year on this forum.

There were certainly weekends when he extracted more out of the car than many others could, and he handily outperformed Button. But there were some weekends where he was anonymous - the problem I have is that it could have been the car not being suited to that particular track, but it could also just as much been him being off-form. There isn't a sure way of knowing.
I'm an Alonso fan and I'm surprised by the level of praise he's getting. I think he has been superb this year, typically driving at his usual best. But I agree there were some events where he wasn't up to his usual high standard. And a few mistakes crept in this year too

There have been previous years when I thought it was blatantly obvious he was the very best out there and found I had to argue hard to prove it. This year the tables have turned!
No one remembers the mistakes or bad weekends when you aren't at the front. You have people saying Alonso because of a few Hamilton bad weekends and mistakes - reality is, Alonso probably had just as many but nobody remembers because he was down in 15th when they happened.

Regarding the poll, these are always pretty meaningless. I think you would get a better result asking in here. They always generally follow the WDC table, it wouldn't have surprised me if Nico won it this year. I am pretty sure he will win quite a few accolades for "driver of the season"

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by mikeyg123 »

To those saying why Alonso.... He finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. Easily out performed his WDC team mate and regularly finished higher than the car should have done.

I don't really see what else he could do. It's much easier to make mistakes when racing in the pack than when you're out on your own and can cruise a lot of the time.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Zoue »

mikeyg123 wrote:To those saying why Alonso.... He finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. Easily out performed his WDC team mate and regularly finished higher than the car should have done.

I don't really see what else he could do. It's much easier to make mistakes when racing in the pack than when you're out on your own and can cruise a lot of the time.
Exactly this. Fighting in the pack without a car advantage invariably means the driver has to work much harder to get positions. Generally speaking, I think Alonso did a terrific job finishing where he did

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by j man »

lamo wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Herb wrote:It's funny, I really have become an Alonso fan since he left Ferrari.

However, I am not sure about all the Alonso praise he is receiving this year on this forum.

There were certainly weekends when he extracted more out of the car than many others could, and he handily outperformed Button. But there were some weekends where he was anonymous - the problem I have is that it could have been the car not being suited to that particular track, but it could also just as much been him being off-form. There isn't a sure way of knowing.
I'm an Alonso fan and I'm surprised by the level of praise he's getting. I think he has been superb this year, typically driving at his usual best. But I agree there were some events where he wasn't up to his usual high standard. And a few mistakes crept in this year too

There have been previous years when I thought it was blatantly obvious he was the very best out there and found I had to argue hard to prove it. This year the tables have turned!
No one remembers the mistakes or bad weekends when you aren't at the front. You have people saying Alonso because of a few Hamilton bad weekends and mistakes - reality is, Alonso probably had just as many but nobody remembers because he was down in 15th when they happened.

Regarding the poll, these are always pretty meaningless. I think you would get a better result asking in here. They always generally follow the WDC table, it wouldn't have surprised me if Nico won it this year. I am pretty sure he will win quite a few accolades for "driver of the season"
I think that has happened with Ricciardo. He has definitely had some weekends this year where he's been quite off the pace and totally eclipsed by Verstappen. In my view he's done no better than Hamilton over the course of the year.

You make a fair point but Alonso still gets my vote for best driver this year.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Henri Royce »

lamo wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Herb wrote:It's funny, I really have become an Alonso fan since he left Ferrari.

However, I am not sure about all the Alonso praise he is receiving this year on this forum.

There were certainly weekends when he extracted more out of the car than many others could, and he handily outperformed Button. But there were some weekends where he was anonymous - the problem I have is that it could have been the car not being suited to that particular track, but it could also just as much been him being off-form. There isn't a sure way of knowing.
I'm an Alonso fan and I'm surprised by the level of praise he's getting. I think he has been superb this year, typically driving at his usual best. But I agree there were some events where he wasn't up to his usual high standard. And a few mistakes crept in this year too

There have been previous years when I thought it was blatantly obvious he was the very best out there and found I had to argue hard to prove it. This year the tables have turned!
No one remembers the mistakes or bad weekends when you aren't at the front. You have people saying Alonso because of a few Hamilton bad weekends and mistakes - reality is, Alonso probably had just as many but nobody remembers because he was down in 15th when they happened.

Regarding the poll, these are always pretty meaningless. I think you would get a better result asking in here. They always generally follow the WDC table, it wouldn't have surprised me if Nico won it this year. I am pretty sure he will win quite a few accolades for "driver of the season"
This, well said mate.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Henri Royce »

mikeyg123 wrote:To those saying why Alonso.... He finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. Easily out performed his WDC team mate and regularly finished higher than the car should have done.

I don't really see what else he could do. It's much easier to make mistakes when racing in the pack than when you're out on your own and can cruise a lot of the time.
7th best car ?, so how come McLaren still has made barely any progress. I remember them in 2009 being almost two seconds of the Brawn's pace Hamilton finished that race P4 while he started P19 i believe. Alonso till now have shown nothing like that in that poor McLaren.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by SR1 »

lamo wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Herb wrote:It's funny, I really have become an Alonso fan since he left Ferrari.

However, I am not sure about all the Alonso praise he is receiving this year on this forum.

There were certainly weekends when he extracted more out of the car than many others could, and he handily outperformed Button. But there were some weekends where he was anonymous - the problem I have is that it could have been the car not being suited to that particular track, but it could also just as much been him being off-form. There isn't a sure way of knowing.
I'm an Alonso fan and I'm surprised by the level of praise he's getting. I think he has been superb this year, typically driving at his usual best. But I agree there were some events where he wasn't up to his usual high standard. And a few mistakes crept in this year too

There have been previous years when I thought it was blatantly obvious he was the very best out there and found I had to argue hard to prove it. This year the tables have turned!
No one remembers the mistakes or bad weekends when you aren't at the front. You have people saying Alonso because of a few Hamilton bad weekends and mistakes - reality is, Alonso probably had just as many but nobody remembers because he was down in 15th when they happened.

Regarding the poll, these are always pretty meaningless. I think you would get a better result asking in here. They always generally follow the WDC table, it wouldn't have surprised me if Nico won it this year. I am pretty sure he will win quite a few accolades for "driver of the season"

I was going to make this point too.

It's a bit of a double-edged sword for the Merc drivers. They have a car, so far ahead, that it often gives them the leverage to make up for errors. But on the other side, they are so high profile, their errors are more obvious to the eye, they get magnified. Wolff made comments to this effect. He commented Mercs were not the only ones having poor starts, others were too, but because their drivers were at the front, embroiled in the WDC fight, the misconception was that it was only Mercs with such problems.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by mcdo »

Henri Royce wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:To those saying why Alonso.... He finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. Easily out performed his WDC team mate and regularly finished higher than the car should have done.

I don't really see what else he could do. It's much easier to make mistakes when racing in the pack than when you're out on your own and can cruise a lot of the time.
7th best car ?, so how come McLaren still has made barely any progress. I remember them in 2009 being almost two seconds of the Brawn's pace Hamilton finished that race P4 while he started P19 i believe. Alonso till now have shown nothing like that in that poor McLaren.
Haha what? That never happened
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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by mikeyg123 »

Henri Royce wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:To those saying why Alonso.... He finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. Easily out performed his WDC team mate and regularly finished higher than the car should have done.

I don't really see what else he could do. It's much easier to make mistakes when racing in the pack than when you're out on your own and can cruise a lot of the time.
7th best car ?, so how come McLaren still has made barely any progress. I remember them in 2009 being almost two seconds of the Brawn's pace Hamilton finished that race P4 while he started P19 i believe. Alonso till now have shown nothing like that in that poor McLaren.
Well they were the 10th best car last year so some progress has been made. Although I'm not sure why their progress is relevant.

As for your second day point - Alonso has finished 5th twice this year and even got a 4th last year. So I don't really know how you missed it.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Robot »

Vettel better than Alonso or "that far" from Kimi?, I don't think so.

Ric, Verstappen Hamilton and Rosberg did very well this season, is fair they are the top 4 best drivers.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Laz_T800 »

mcdo wrote:
Henri Royce wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:To those saying why Alonso.... He finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. Easily out performed his WDC team mate and regularly finished higher than the car should have done.

I don't really see what else he could do. It's much easier to make mistakes when racing in the pack than when you're out on your own and can cruise a lot of the time.
7th best car ?, so how come McLaren still has made barely any progress. I remember them in 2009 being almost two seconds of the Brawn's pace Hamilton finished that race P4 while he started P19 i believe. Alonso till now have shown nothing like that in that poor McLaren.
Haha what? That never happened
You are right.
He started 18th in Australia and finished 4th although he was later DQ'ed for non racing related issues.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Henri Royce »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Henri Royce wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:To those saying why Alonso.... He finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. Easily out performed his WDC team mate and regularly finished higher than the car should have done.

I don't really see what else he could do. It's much easier to make mistakes when racing in the pack than when you're out on your own and can cruise a lot of the time.
7th best car ?, so how come McLaren still has made barely any progress. I remember them in 2009 being almost two seconds of the Brawn's pace Hamilton finished that race P4 while he started P19 i believe. Alonso till now have shown nothing like that in that poor McLaren.
Well they were the 10th best car last year so some progress has been made. Although I'm not sure why their progress is relevant.

As for your second day point - Alonso has finished 5th twice this year and even got a 4th last year. So I don't really know how you missed it.
He did but did not started from 15th or lower to achieve that.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Zoue »

Laz_T800 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Henri Royce wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:To those saying why Alonso.... He finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. Easily out performed his WDC team mate and regularly finished higher than the car should have done.

I don't really see what else he could do. It's much easier to make mistakes when racing in the pack than when you're out on your own and can cruise a lot of the time.
7th best car ?, so how come McLaren still has made barely any progress. I remember them in 2009 being almost two seconds of the Brawn's pace Hamilton finished that race P4 while he started P19 i believe. Alonso till now have shown nothing like that in that poor McLaren.
Haha what? That never happened
You are right.
He started 18th in Australia and finished 4th although he was later DQ'ed for non racing related issues.
He was disqualified for lying about allowing Trulli to pass him under the SC in an attempt to take the place from Trulli, so it's not really non-racing related.

In any event, he's an amateur. Kimi started from 17th in Japan 2005 and came home 1st. Truly a driving god!

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Rockie »

People criticising the team bosses don't understand how this polls work and it's quite amazing!

Now people get emotional at the end of the season and award performance to drivers because they remember a few races, the same Alonso people are praising forget the error he did in Australia plowing into the back of Esteban. There are so many more like that for different drivers all you need to do is think back and this results are actually justified!

Now team bosses do this rankings race by race!

I'm sure there's someone on this forum who's got a race by race thing going a look at it will surprise most!

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by mikeyg123 »

Henri Royce wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Henri Royce wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:To those saying why Alonso.... He finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. Easily out performed his WDC team mate and regularly finished higher than the car should have done.

I don't really see what else he could do. It's much easier to make mistakes when racing in the pack than when you're out on your own and can cruise a lot of the time.
7th best car ?, so how come McLaren still has made barely any progress. I remember them in 2009 being almost two seconds of the Brawn's pace Hamilton finished that race P4 while he started P19 i believe. Alonso till now have shown nothing like that in that poor McLaren.
Well they were the 10th best car last year so some progress has been made. Although I'm not sure why their progress is relevant.

As for your second day point - Alonso has finished 5th twice this year and even got a 4th last year. So I don't really know how you missed it.
He did but did not started from 15th or lower to achieve that.
So he made a better job of qualifying. Surely that is in the credit of Alonso? I'm confused by your "logic".

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Lotus49 »

Laz_T800 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Henri Royce wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:To those saying why Alonso.... He finished 10th in the WDC in the 7th best car. Easily out performed his WDC team mate and regularly finished higher than the car should have done.

I don't really see what else he could do. It's much easier to make mistakes when racing in the pack than when you're out on your own and can cruise a lot of the time.
7th best car ?, so how come McLaren still has made barely any progress. I remember them in 2009 being almost two seconds of the Brawn's pace Hamilton finished that race P4 while he started P19 i believe. Alonso till now have shown nothing like that in that poor McLaren.
Haha what? That never happened
You are right.
He started 18th in Australia and finished 4th although he was later DQ'ed for non racing related issues.
I think he was laughing at the 2s nonsense. Kova qualified 1 second behind the quickest Brawn in Australia in Q1&2.

So half the gap claimed and a lot closer than the McLarens have been on average.
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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by breathemyexhaust »

Basically anytime it was wet this year Alonso spun, losing a pretty tasty points haul in Brazil for it. And before he announced his 'retirement' Button was being his nettlesome best as a competing teammate and getting the better of Alonso on several occasions. Ricciardo looked like the lesser Red Bull driver at at least a half-dozen weekends out of the year in pace, tire management, and impetuousness--the same can't be said for Hamilton vis-a-vis Rosberg. Sainz absolutely killed Kvyat, kudos to him, but Kvyat is also rubbish so the demolition isn't grounds to esteem Sainz too highly, just as no one is really touting Grosjean that much this year, even though he bagged all of Hass's points, because he is teammates with the woeful Guttierez.

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Lotus49
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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Lotus49 »

Rockie wrote:People criticising the team bosses don't understand how this polls work and it's quite amazing!

Now people get emotional at the end of the season and award performance to drivers because they remember a few races, the same Alonso people are praising forget the error he did in Australia plowing into the back of Esteban. There are so many more like that for different drivers all you need to do is think back and this results are actually justified!

Now team bosses do this rankings race by race!

I'm sure there's someone on this forum who's got a race by race thing going a look at it will surprise most!
If that's true then the list is even worse because they were obviously ignoring Spain-Belgium(8 races) when Nico was terrible in 7 of them and managed to miss the podium in 5.

The team bosses list usually reflects the cars results and who's getting talked about in the press and paddock. I actually had a bet with a friend Max would win after Brazil because of the impact he's had on both so I'm a little bit upset he didn't quite make it.


Black_Flag_11 ran a driver of the weekend poll which basically does what you're saying here and the last time I looked it didn't surprise me at all really. I haven't voted or looked at AD or the final results yet but Lewis,Dan and Alonso had been the top 3 most of the year IIRC.

I personally think those four i've mentioned in any order you like really. Then Nico or Seb then Kimi. Then Perez,Sainz and Button or Hulk.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by kleefton »

To me Ricciardo has been the best all around driver. He is good in quali, and his race craft skills are still second to none. Though I feel Ricc has driven the best this year Verstappen has shown us that he is beatable sometimes.
Hamilton to me is second. Only 2 race weekends he was off the pace but the many bad starts are keeping him from the top spot.
Alonso had a dodgy first half of the year, but the second half was pretty magical. To me he's been the 3rd best driver. I just can't forget what happened in Australia, Hungary, Silverstone, Monza and Germany.
Verstappen ranks 4th in my book. Definitely the most exciting driver this year, but he is still a work in progress.
Rosberg would complete the top 5 to me. He has always done what he needed to do this year, sometimes it wasn't pretty but he got the job done whenever he needed to, taking full advantage of the Hamilton woes.
Vettel ranks 6th. He was pretty good on Sundays but imo poor on Saturdays. A little too many first lap incidents for my liking though.
Perez ranks 7th in my book. He has been super consistent this year, still does an awesome job with the tires, was much closer to Hulk in qualifying and outdid him in most of the races. Maybe the most underrated driver on the grid.
Bottas ranks 8th. Still one of the most consistent drivers out there and he outdid Massa pretty badly this year. Unfortunately the car isn't any good.
Raikonnen would be 9th in my book. Very impressive display on Saturdays, a more consistent performance than last year, but his Sundays always left something to be desired in my opinion.
Grosjean would be 10th. He did some good things with that Haas car while his teammate never did anything noteworthy all season. But Grosjean looked like the leader of that team this year. I was impressed by how he carried himself over there, radio outbursts aside.

Drivers that barely failed to make the top 10 for me are Sainz, Hulkenberg, Button.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by Lotus49 »

breathemyexhaust wrote:Basically anytime it was wet this year Alonso spun, losing a pretty tasty points haul in Brazil for it. And before he announced his 'retirement' Button was being his nettlesome best as a competing teammate and getting the better of Alonso on several occasions. Ricciardo looked like the lesser Red Bull driver at at least a half-dozen weekends out of the year in pace, tire management, and impetuousness--the same can't be said for Hamilton vis-a-vis Rosberg. Sainz absolutely killed Kvyat, kudos to him, but Kvyat is also rubbish so the demolition isn't grounds to esteem Sainz too highly, just as no one is really touting Grosjean that much this year, even though he bagged all of Hass's points, because he is teammates with the woeful Guttierez.
Not a lot of points lost in Brazil really, he was stuck in 7th before the spin and got back to 10th.

He was 5th in Monaco ahead of a Mercedes. Max crashed out.
He had a moment at T1 in Silverstone just like Max twice and Lewis once. His was backwards granted. Just more Panache really :-P .
He had a moment in Brazil just like Max,Nico,Seb and Kimi. Again his had a bit more panache than Max and Nico but a bit less than Kimi.

Should also be noted his car had a lot less downforce than the others due to McLaren chasing low drag and efficiency because of the lack of power.

And he's had the same results against Button actually, the big difference was their cars stopped failing except for driver errors since the summer and we didn't have to keep throwing out results when Alonso was ahead. There's a couple of different threads showing the breakdown.
"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by POBRatings »

I reckon posters here are more accurate than the team bosses in assessing/ranking/rating drivers. Pretty sure that the Team Bosses don't spend much time analysing or thinking about the precise question, as someone above here said (sorry forgot who?).

Imo such rating questions are not easy to answer as we see above: almost all drivers made several mistakes. I think Alonso is probably the best driver, but agree with those who said he was not always on top form in 2016. How much of this is due to having a slow car? It must have a demotivating effect. Driving a Merc must give drivers much more confidence and a more relaxing drive. :]

I've calculated my ratings but due to only 8 races being safety-car free have few data points; as well as the screwed-up grids due to penalties, analysis is becoming more and more difficult. I am trying to id those who drove at their best, with fewest errors and taking into account their cars. And trying to imagine them all in same-cars to make it a driver-vs-driver comparison! :? but working on my list....

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by spiritone »

You guys are a riot. Dissing a poll by team bosses, the guys that hire the drivers, the guys that have all the data, the guys that watch the drivers through all 21 races, testing. Then you make up your list based on who knows what (tv watching,maybe)

Keep it up, i needed a good laugh today.

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Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by mikeyg123 »

spiritone wrote:You guys are a riot. Dissing a poll by team bosses, the guys that hire the drivers, the guys that have all the data, the guys that watch the drivers through all 21 races, testing. Then you make up your list based on who knows what (tv watching,maybe)

Keep it up, i needed a good laugh today.
I think we put a lot more thought into it than they do so can come to a better list.

It's not unusual. I see pundits say things every race that would be debunked in seconds by many forum members. The reason I enjoy coming to the forum is that we analyse things in far more depth than anything I ever see on TV.

lamo

Re: Team bosses poll - Hamilton takes it

Post by lamo »

mikeyg123 wrote:
spiritone wrote:You guys are a riot. Dissing a poll by team bosses, the guys that hire the drivers, the guys that have all the data, the guys that watch the drivers through all 21 races, testing. Then you make up your list based on who knows what (tv watching,maybe)

Keep it up, i needed a good laugh today.
I think we put a lot more thought into it than they do so can come to a better list.

It's not unusual. I see pundits say things every race that would be debunked in seconds by many forum members. The reason I enjoy coming to the forum is that we analyse things in far more depth than anything I ever see on TV.
Indeed, this is particularly true. There are posters here who probably know more about a specific period or team or driver or something like Michael Schumacher vs Nico Rosberg 2012 etc etc than anyone involved in the sport.

It is very common for TV presenters to make quite large mistakes, they have a very good general knowledge of the sport but don't know everything. The exception is probably someone like Ted Kravitz who has an excellent knowledge, but even he is still doing it live so can make mistakes if he can't recall something immediately.

F1 bosses vote at the end of the year is the most fickle thing and has about 80% correlation to the WDC final standings, every single year. Top 5 are the top 5 in the WDC. The whole top 10 finished inside the top 12 in the WDC.

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