Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

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IDrinkYourMilkshake
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Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by IDrinkYourMilkshake »

Damn, I really cannot believe how this guy is disintegrating!

When he moved to Ferrari in 2015, I knew he may not have the raw talent of Alonso, but as Lauda said, "Vettel is sunny, Alonso is dark".

I believed he may not be the fastest, but he will lead Ferrari to better results with great feedback and positivity.

Some things have become aptly clear.

First, that a driver REALLY does not influence much how a car is designed, and can only affect the setup, and I don't think Sebastian brings anything new here that Alonso didn't do.

Second, Alonso now seems positively saint-like with the patience he had with Ferrari. He was of a similar age to Vettel when he moved to Ferrari, and was positive throughout 2011, a season where Ferrari drifted away rather than catch up, was patient and positive and didn't have one negative word for the team after he lost the championship at Brazil, and it NEVER seemed like in the car, in the heat of the race, he was losing his head.

Third, Sebastian Vettel just CANNOT be a great racer. He is among the best in raw pace, but I can't for the life of me remember him ever having a string of races where he has to show his racecraft and he kept it completely clean. To me, he seems to lack the spatial awareness of Fernando Alonso, which admittedly is rather special.

Fourth, he is NOT as consistent as Alonso, which again is probably the highest bar set in the history of the sport, but I didn't expect him to be so far behind. 2014 doesn't seem like a one-off now. It seems outside factors, or non-driving factors like the team's development, really affect his performance. Alonso was immune to this.

So in a nutshell, when we got Sebastian for Fernando, I thought we are losing better racecraft, a little consistency, a little adaptability. But we are gaining a more positive outlook, better feedback for car development, better qualifying pace.

It's astounding for me to now re-assess Fernando vs Sebastian. Even in areas I previously thought Fernando was lacking, he actually seems better. The more time passes, the more astounding it now seems what Fernando did with those Ferraris from 2010 to 2014, but also how well he handled it, in the media, on the radio, and on the effing racetrack.

Damn I miss Fernando in Ferrari, but it hurts more to see Sebastian isn't who I thought he might be, or at least would grow into.

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infi24r
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by infi24r »

Vettel has a very narrow driving window and is also very entitled. On his day is he fast as Alonso? Yes, probably. But that day is far rarer.

The thing with him is he seems to feel that other drivers aren't allowed to race him. Thats a bad mindset.

The Ferrari really isn't such a bad car overall. I would say it may have been quicker than the RB in the race today. He needs to stop moaning and get on with it.

rivf1
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by rivf1 »

Apart the iceman, the whole Ferrari establishment just sound completely and utterly stressed out and are not just not handling it, at all. It's really difficult to get a good read on the car, there are times during practice they show great pace and you think yep finally they are going to hit back and than bam, i don't know what happens in quali. Some of their decision making during races leaves a lot to be desired too. I hope they somehow get their act together by next season, i would love to see multiple teams battling it out in a close championship.

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dizlexik
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by dizlexik »

I was worried about Vettel long before this race. Vettel was both unlucky, made mistakes and was let down by Ferrari. It's very similar to what Alonso experienced at Ferrari, but Alonso handled it better. Vettel is very frustrated, but as a fan I think he makes it now very difficult to support him.
eeee

Pullrod
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Pullrod »

Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.

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2fast
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by 2fast »

I'm among those fans of Vettel, does it make me a disillusioned one? :P :lol: :twisted:
too fast to slow down

GingerFurball
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by GingerFurball »

Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
Alonso had poor strategy calls in Abu Dhabi 2010 and Canada 2012 that arguably cost him 2 World Championships.

Pullrod
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Pullrod »

GingerFurball wrote:
Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
Alonso had poor strategy calls in Abu Dhabi 2010 and Canada 2012 that arguably cost him 2 World Championships.
2 examples (of which one questionable) in 5 years say a lot.
Alonso in his first races with McLaren has had more problems than during his 5 years in Ferrari.

optimisteprime
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by optimisteprime »

From the title I thought you meant disillusioned with his mistreatment...

He fought his way to a podium yesterday, beating the two highly rated Red Bull drivers who had a faster car than him, only to have it taken away unfairly when had been the one who was suffering through Max's cheating.

Time and again this year he's pulled off really strong drives like that, making a number of great recovery drives after so many grid penalties, and always extracting the maximum from the car. It is true that he's been in more than his fair share of first corner incidents however, something that I think comes from him being forced to outdrive the car and go for risky moves as it's the only way to get the big results. The amount of points he's lost from mistakes is nothing compared to the amount he's lost from reliability and team strategy mistakes however.

He was comfortably driver of the day in Mexico, and has been at a number of other grand prix this year. He's doing about as well as possible given the circumstances so I'm amazed at the amount of unfair criticism that's been piled on him lately.

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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by klauss »

Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
nailed it :lol:
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Knuppel1983
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Knuppel1983 »

Instead of driving around frustrated, Vettel should focus on getting on the podium.
Alonso is in a far worse situation, but he makes the best of it.

Meanwhile you see him cling on to Hamilton and Rosberg like he's their best mate. Junior looking up to senior.
It's pathetic. To me Vettel has shown his true color. And in retrospect, it makes me wonder how good the RB was in his winning days.

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guardiangr
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by guardiangr »

Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
The OP claims for some time now that he is a Vettel fan but most of his/her posts I've seen are slamming Vettel in some way :lol: :lol: :lol:

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guardiangr
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by guardiangr »

GingerFurball wrote:
Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
Alonso had poor strategy calls in Abu Dhabi 2010 and Canada 2012 that arguably cost him 2 World Championships.
It's not like Alonso didn't make mistakes himself. I could argue that he lost the 2012 championship with his mistake at Suzuka.

Prema
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Prema »

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:Damn, I really cannot believe how this guy is disintegrating!
Damn, I really cannot believe you are one disillusioned Vettel fan.

robins13
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by robins13 »

Knuppel1983 wrote:And in retrospect, it makes me wonder how good the RB was in his winning days.
Good enough to win both the championship, and he achieved it too. Or you want more ;)

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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Zoue »

Another race, another thread to have a pop at Vettel. :uhoh:

GingerFurball
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by GingerFurball »

Pullrod wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
Alonso had poor strategy calls in Abu Dhabi 2010 and Canada 2012 that arguably cost him 2 World Championships.
2 examples (of which one questionable) in 5 years say a lot.
Alonso in his first races with McLaren has had more problems than during his 5 years in Ferrari.
They're 2 major mistakes.

Migen
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Migen »

Prema wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:Damn, I really cannot believe how this guy is disintegrating!
Damn, I really cannot believe you are one disillusioned Vettel fan.
He really isnt...
And just as Pullrod said few posts above, its exactly a disguised "Alonso is the best" thread from a Vettel disguised Alonso fan like IDrinkYourMilkshake, who has long admitted at being more fond of Alonso.

Other than an attempt to give his Vettel bashing some credibility, I just dont get it why he persists on presenting himself as a Vettel fan on every time he wants to loud Alonso at Vettel's expense.

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LKS1
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by LKS1 »

optimisteprime wrote:From the title I thought you meant disillusioned with his mistreatment...

He fought his way to a podium yesterday, beating the two highly rated Red Bull drivers who had a faster car than him, only to have it taken away unfairly when had been the one who was suffering through Max's cheating.

Time and again this year he's pulled off really strong drives like that, making a number of great recovery drives after so many grid penalties, and always extracting the maximum from the car. It is true that he's been in more than his fair share of first corner incidents however, something that I think comes from him being forced to outdrive the car and go for risky moves as it's the only way to get the big results. The amount of points he's lost from mistakes is nothing compared to the amount he's lost from reliability and team strategy mistakes however.

He was comfortably driver of the day in Mexico, and has been at a number of other grand prix this year. He's doing about as well as possible given the circumstances so I'm amazed at the amount of unfair criticism that's been piled on him lately.
From the title thread I thought the OP was saying that he was a Seb fan until recently :lol: !

Its quite obvious from this thread that he wasn't.

Even so, he has a point to a certain extent. I was never a 'fan' of Seb, but quite liked him. His constant complaining about back markers this season has 'put me off' and brought him down (in my eyes) to the typical whingers when things aren't going their way.

An unattractive trait.

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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Lt. Drebin »

Vettel actually had one of the best races of the season. He was very impressive, kept it well together, specially on the old tyres. He showed very good consistency. I have nothing to complain about his driving, he was even voted the driver of the day, so where is the problem?
Inconsistency, incompetence and slowness of the stewards, hothead youngster who thins he is god in making, and Australian competitor that approached him because the kiddo from the same team did not give him the place he kept illegally. Enough for Vettel to be angry.
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by ReservoirDog »

I am no Vettel fan, but can't see what he did wrong today? He was sublime.

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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by lamo »

Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
It is a very good point, Alonso had a bulletproof car for 4-5 seasons and broke the record for races without a mechanical DNF. Lets not forget, Vettel was ahead of Rosberg with 3 races to go last year....

Nico had had 2 DNFs, Vettel just 1 (just shows how a single DNF can close things up so much and is the reason Nico leads the title this year). Nico was leading 10-3 when both finished but was behind in the WDC.

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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

I don't think any less of Vettel after yesterday's race. Just like almost all top drivers, he is extremely competitive and prone to verbal diarrhea. Considering the circumstances, there was a very good reason why he was irate. A driver who should not be ahead was backing him up into his teammate, in order for Red Bull to gang up on one car. I would love to witness how other top drivers, such as Hamilton, Rosberg, name any top ten driver, would have reacted if in the same situation.

Is he a spoiled little punk? Yes. But so are all the other drivers.

Their employers and all organizations surrounding Formula One pump up the drivers to project the image that they are nice people, lovable and cuddly. But every so often we get to see their true colors, when anger strips away the camouflage and we get to see their true selves.
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Lotus49
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Lotus49 »

Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
He had a famously poor strategy call that contributed to him losing a World Title in 2010. Plus in that year he had a clutch failure in Malaysia which led to an engine blow out which in turn left him with an old engine at the last race that hindered him in trying to get past Petrov, again directly contributing to a lost title.

After that Ferrari did give him slow but reliable cars yes, but there were still the odd strategy blunder along the way but I would agree nothing like some of the blunders this year yeah.

But Kimi's had it worse in that regard than Seb I believe.


(It's also a bit pointless comparing reliability from cars in the end years of regulations to the formative years of a new one using new technology)
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nixxxon
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by nixxxon »

You are so right when you say vettel is not a racer.
He doesnt like to fight with anyone, he wants everyone to make way for him when they are slower, he is only happy when he starts from pole position and he is running alone in front like he used to do with the dominant Red Bull cars.

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Sevenfest
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Sevenfest »

Blinky McSquinty wrote:I don't think any less of Vettel after yesterday's race. Just like almost all top drivers, he is extremely competitive and prone to verbal diarrhea. Considering the circumstances, there was a very good reason why he was irate. A driver who should not be ahead was backing him up into his teammate, in order for Red Bull to gang up on one car. I would love to witness how other top drivers, such as Hamilton, Rosberg, name any top ten driver, would have reacted if in the same situation.

Is he a spoiled little punk? Yes. But so are all the other drivers.

Their employers and all organizations surrounding Formula One pump up the drivers to project the image that they are nice people, lovable and cuddly. But every so often we get to see their true colors, when anger strips away the camouflage and we get to see their true selves.
Totally agree. The focus is only on Vettel now because the controllers of the worldwide feed have evidence he's likely to give them 'TV gold'.

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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by davidheath461 »

Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.
It's a different era though isn't it, so not exactly fair to compare reliability.

How about we compare the speed of the cars? 8)

Vettel's made more mistakes in his 2 seasons at Ferrari than Alonso made in his 5 years at Ferrari.
Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.
He knew what he was getting into. Only guys like you take notice now that your boy is driving the red car.
Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
Vettel has so far been provided better cars than Alonso yet he is producing worse results.

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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by davidheath461 »

optimisteprime wrote:
He fought his way to a podium yesterday, beating the two highly rated Red Bull drivers who had a faster car than him, only to have it taken away unfairly when had been the one who was suffering through Max's cheating.
It's true, he did have good pace. Shame he qualified so poorly and got mugged into turn 4 by Massa which compromised his race. And also big shame that he couldn't keep his cool and decided to move under braking when defending against Ricciardo. It's ironic, Vettel was one of the drivers asking for the rule to be made, and he is the first that is punished under this new rule. :lol: He dug his own grave!
Time and again this year he's pulled off really strong drives like that, making a number of great recovery drives after so many grid penalties, and always extracting the maximum from the car. It is true that he's been in more than his fair share of first corner incidents however, something that I think comes from him being forced to outdrive the car and go for risky moves as it's the only way to get the big results. The amount of points he's lost from mistakes is nothing compared to the amount he's lost from reliability and team strategy mistakes however.
Well then i guess he should stop "outdriving the car" and not get himself involved in so many shunts.
He was comfortably driver of the day in Mexico, and has been at a number of other grand prix this year. He's doing about as well as possible given the circumstances so I'm amazed at the amount of unfair criticism that's been piled on him lately.
No way, his qualifying has been weak and he's been involved in too many shunts. He's left way too many points on the table. Vettel himself has admitted that he's underperformed this season, so no point trying to defend him.

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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by davidheath461 »

guardiangr wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
Alonso had poor strategy calls in Abu Dhabi 2010 and Canada 2012 that arguably cost him 2 World Championships.
It's not like Alonso didn't make mistakes himself. I could argue that he lost the 2012 championship with his mistake at Suzuka.
what mistake? :?:

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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Exediron »

davidheath461 wrote:what mistake? :?:
Hitting Kimi, if you're one of the people who blames him for it.
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by davidheath461 »

nixxxon wrote:You are so right when you say vettel is not a racer.
He doesnt like to fight with anyone, he wants everyone to make way for him when they are slower, he is only happy when he starts from pole position and he is running alone in front like he used to do with the dominant Red Bull cars.
:thumbup:

Well said.

His comments on Massa were really out of line yesterday. He called Massa stupid because Massa actually defended against Vettel. What a joke.

davidheath461
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by davidheath461 »

Exediron wrote:
davidheath461 wrote:what mistake? :?:
Hitting Kimi, if you're one of the people who blames him for it.
Coulthard seems to think this was Kimi's fault. Not saying he is 100% correct but he does have racing experience and is in a better position to judge compared to you or I. At the very least there's some debate as to who's fault it was.

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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Chunky »

I'm no fan of Vettel. I fully expected him to kick off when the hybrid engines came in and Mercedes became dominant, ending his run of right place, right time, Uncle Helmut engineered entitlement. To his credit, he didn't. Even when Ricciardo wiped the floor with him.

Instead he went to Ferrari, got his head down and got stuck in. For a while it made Alonso's decision to throw a wobbler and leave look so, so stupid. Things looked good for a while. But the bottom line is he's the once golden child in a poorly performing car. Another entitled, golden child has his old seat and drives like the rules and the established conventions don't apply to him. He can do no wrong and (until he wipes someone out and seriously injures them) all the establishment and most of the racing press will be Max fans.

Instead of Torro Rosso cars moving smoothly out of his way, back markers now won't even observe the blue flags. No wonder Seb keeps throwing the teddy out of the cot.

I hesitate to say it, but I actually feel some sympathy for Vettel. I'm going for a shower, I feel grubby.


.

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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by rodH »

GingerFurball wrote:
Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
Alonso had poor strategy calls in Abu Dhabi 2010 and Canada 2012 that arguably cost him 2 World Championships.

yep, no big deal, just 2 potential championships

davidheath461
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by davidheath461 »

rodH wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
Alonso had poor strategy calls in Abu Dhabi 2010 and Canada 2012 that arguably cost him 2 World Championships.

yep, no big deal, just 2 potential championships
Just to add - some other wrong strategy calls in 2012:

Barcelona
Monaco
Silverstone
Monza
Brazil
+ botched pitstop at Austin.

Not sure where people are getting the idea that Ferrari had brilliant strategy when Alonso was there.

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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Pullrod »

davidheath461 wrote:
rodH wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
Alonso had poor strategy calls in Abu Dhabi 2010 and Canada 2012 that arguably cost him 2 World Championships.

yep, no big deal, just 2 potential championships
Just to add - some other wrong strategy calls in 2012:

Barcelona
Monaco
Silverstone
Monza
Brazil
+ botched pitstop at Austin.

Not sure where people are getting the idea that Ferrari had brilliant strategy when Alonso was there.
Infact 2012 Ferrari team operations and reliability was worse than this year but Alonso almost win a WDC. Vettel has no reason to complain or be frustrated.

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cm97
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by cm97 »

davidheath461 wrote:
rodH wrote:
GingerFurball wrote:
Pullrod wrote:Another disguised "Alonso is the best" thread.
Please tell us how many mechanical problems or strategy blunders/pit stop errors Alonso has suffered during his time at Ferrari compared to his rivals? With the reliability of today, he would have been nowhere in 2010/2012.

Vettel is a proven winner and surely had higher expectations. The same nightmare of problems pushed Hamilton out of McLaren.

Vettel is experiencing nothing like what Alonso experienced in Ferrari. Fernando had the reliability, the best team operations and the presidents of both the team and the bank at his feet.
Alonso had poor strategy calls in Abu Dhabi 2010 and Canada 2012 that arguably cost him 2 World Championships.

yep, no big deal, just 2 potential championships
Just to add - some other wrong strategy calls in 2012:

Barcelona
Monaco
Silverstone
Monza
Brazil
+ botched pitstop at Austin.

Not sure where people are getting the idea that Ferrari had brilliant strategy when Alonso was there.
Without wanting to drag these thread completely off the rails, could you please explain to me what you mean by this?
I'm thinking
Barecelona- left Fernando out too long allowing Maldanado to undercut. The lapped traffic didn't help.
Monaco- nothing comes to mind, in fact didn't they jump Hamilton in the stops
Silverstone - wrong tyre choice at start. They weren't to know. That's one of those things.
Monza- broken rollbar in Q3 meant he started 10th. Disappointing but life goes on. Perez's charge on new tyres at the end aced the whole field not just Ferrari.
Don't believe the Austin pit stop hurt his end position.
Brazil- I honestly have no recollection of what more they could have done without taking extreme risks.

On a seperate note, Vettel drove a very good race in Mexico and showed the passion that you want in a lead driver. He did overstep the line with Charlie but nothing wrong with having a bit of mongrel in him if he uses it at the right time; which is something for him to improve on.
The Ricciardo incident was also a very stiff penalty and short of running down the inside white line all the way down the straight, Ricciardo was always going to dive on him.
All in all, if Ferrari get there act together, Seb will do a fine job. From a Ferrari fan perspective, I'm disappointed (but not disillusioned) with the team not the drivers.
#Keep Fighting Michael

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Blake
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Blake »

Ah yes... the pretend Vettel "fan" and the never-miss-an-opportunity Vettel critic join up in yet another thread... Stupidly, Vettel's own actions gave them the opportunity this time, conveniently saving them the hassle of creating opportunity in their minds.
;)

No, I am not disillusioned with Vettel... disappointed that he made the comments that he did, and sorry for his lack of control, but I do understand what led to them and why he lost it. Sadly, his ill-advised words are now the story, when once again, Max's driving and lack of respect for the other drivers and the sport should be.

I too feel that Vettel's punishment for the on-track incident was too harsh, unless that is also is punishment for his outburst towards Charlie... which I suspect it will only be a small part of the total price to be paid by Seb. Not his smartest move to be sure, but to be disillusioned with him as a driver because of it... no.
Forza Ferrari
WCCs = 16
WDCs = 15

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Covalent
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by Covalent »

Inappropriate post removed.

TheBlackFlag
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Re: Any Other Disillusioned Vettel Fan?

Post by TheBlackFlag »

I am less a "disillusioned Vettel Fan" and more of a "I really started to respect this guy...but now I remember why he used to really bug me."

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