Hamilton: "why me?"

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Which one do you believe?

Poll ended at Sun Oct 09, 2016 11:09 am

1) Conspiracy against Hamilton
6
11%
2) Pure coincidence
39
68%
3) Something about the way Hamilton drives
6
11%
4) A lone saboteur
6
11%
 
Total votes: 57

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mcdo
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by mcdo »

Aspar wrote:
mcdo wrote:I believe that the way particular drivers drive used to have a big effect back in the day. These days the engineers would be all over it and could point out where the driver is going wrong. Lewis is good enough to adapt to anything the engineers tell him and I don't believe it's his driving style. Pure coincidence

It's certainly not the team. Anyone who thinks there's a conspiracy probably thinks 9/11 was an inside job and needs therapy
Lol, you really wrote that? After all that time? Anyone who thinks 9/11 was not an inside job, probably thinks his government is taking care of him, politicians are good dudes, who are really trying to do all they can for the good of the society, Iraq had WMD and there is Santa Close and...well not therapy, but probably should go back to kindergarten where this way of thinking belongs to.
Cheers. You made my day, really made me smile. Make a reality check dude and take off the pink glasses.
On the engines you are right though.
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moby
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by moby »

I would like to know exactly what the problem was in each case, which we never will. Other than that, forget "all those other engines and only me" because they are all packaged differently, and possibly given lower limits than him. And when I say lower limits, I also wonder if he does get to use it harder? For example, they are allowed a high mode for qualli. Is it possible that only Hamilton uses it to the absolute max? I doubt it would be contributory, but without the knowledge the team has, there is no way to include it or rule it out.

I dont think it is possible to directly affect an engine with driving style, well, short of high rev change downs, but who knows what a little knob twiddling can do :twisted:

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Blinky McSquinty
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

moby wrote:I would like to know exactly what the problem was in each case, which we never will. Other than that, forget "all those other engines and only me" because they are all packaged differently, and possibly given lower limits than him. And when I say lower limits, I also wonder if he does get to use it harder? For example, they are allowed a high mode for qualli. Is it possible that only Hamilton uses it to the absolute max? I doubt it would be contributory, but without the knowledge the team has, there is no way to include it or rule it out.

I dont think it is possible to directly affect an engine with driving style, well, short of high rev change downs, but who knows what a little knob twiddling can do :twisted:
But we regularly hear on the radio that the team is asking the driver to alter some software mode or alter their driving style because (for example) the brakes are over-heating. So yes, what the driver selects in the software or his driving style does have an effect on car reliability.
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nixxxon
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by nixxxon »

Zoue wrote:
nixxxon wrote:Conspiracy? Seriously? Can anyone actually believe a team like Mercedes would shoot themselves in the foot like that?
At the time of writing at least 8 people believe just that, it seems...

I don't know whether to laugh or cry :uhoh:
I mean you can believe conspiracy theories when there are team orders to alter the 1-2 result and stuff like that, but to go as far as making your own engine blow up??
Ridiculous...

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by j man »

moby wrote:I would like to know exactly what the problem was in each case, which we never will. Other than that, forget "all those other engines and only me" because they are all packaged differently, and possibly given lower limits than him. And when I say lower limits, I also wonder if he does get to use it harder? For example, they are allowed a high mode for qualli. Is it possible that only Hamilton uses it to the absolute max? I doubt it would be contributory, but without the knowledge the team has, there is no way to include it or rule it out.

I dont think it is possible to directly affect an engine with driving style, well, short of high rev change downs, but who knows what a little knob twiddling can do :twisted:
With unrestricted radio communication the teams have tended to keep their drivers on a pretty tight leash when it comes to selecting engine modes, and we know from the furore in 2014 that Mercedes in particular will keep their two drivers using the same modes to ensure parity (or discourage close racing ;) ). I don't think Hamilton is being any more aggressive with engine modes than Rosberg simply because the team won't allow him to.

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by moby »

j man wrote:
moby wrote:I would like to know exactly what the problem was in each case, which we never will. Other than that, forget "all those other engines and only me" because they are all packaged differently, and possibly given lower limits than him. And when I say lower limits, I also wonder if he does get to use it harder? For example, they are allowed a high mode for qualli. Is it possible that only Hamilton uses it to the absolute max? I doubt it would be contributory, but without the knowledge the team has, there is no way to include it or rule it out.

I dont think it is possible to directly affect an engine with driving style, well, short of high rev change downs, but who knows what a little knob twiddling can do :twisted:
With unrestricted radio communication the teams have tended to keep their drivers on a pretty tight leash when it comes to selecting engine modes, and we know from the furore in 2014 that Mercedes in particular will keep their two drivers using the same modes to ensure parity (or discourage close racing ;) ). I don't think Hamilton is being any more aggressive with engine modes than Rosberg simply because the team won't allow him to.
Agree on them being kept the same, but is it possible to use it more? An example, Driver A exits corner y at 100mph, equal to 9000rpm. Driver B exits corner y at 102mph, equal to 9020rpm.

Driver A reaches a maximum speed of 200 mph on the following straight, which is 11500 rpm, but as driver B was 2mph quicker entering the straight, His car reaches 11800rpm at 204 mph (the other 2 because he is 2 mph quicker around the next corner, so backs off later).

Both engines have the same performance allowance but one allowance is used more than the other.

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Re: Hmailton: "why me?"

Post by iano »

flyboy10 wrote:I wish people would learn the difference between sabotage/vengeance and conspiracy. A single person doing something to derail another is not a conspiracy. Believing that someone has acted (secretly) or that one person is covering up their actions is not a conspiracy theory. A conspiracy, by definition, involves the actions of two people or more with shared knowledge i.e. conspiring.

Hamilton could possibly be the victim of some secret rogue behaviour but, if it's coming from one person, it's sabotage, not a conspiracy. So there's at least one more option that should be in the poll.

In any event, I think it's quite improbable. I do wonder if there's a difference in how Hamilton and Rosberg drive that creates more engine issues for Hamilton but until someone asked the question (and still now) I think it's random, i.e. bad luck.

It would be a nice thing for Rosberg fans, should he win the WDC because of reliability issues, to blame them on driving styles and therefore inferring that Rosberg was still the better driver.
I added your option of a lone Saboteur throwing their shoe in the engines, but it was just one of many I left off. Perhaps some orientation of how the garages are set up has meant that only Lewis has had sunshine at 4pm on his engines and that makes them break? :)

The chance of it being anything other than coincidence seems unlikely, but then, so does the chance that of 43 Mercedes engines with 3 failures, all three failures are Hamilton engines. So no explanation fits the 'likely' category.

The advantage of the 'lone saboteur' idea is it is far easier to keep things secret with only one person involved. But the challenge is motivation. If it is sabotage, then chances of more than one engineer involved would seem almost zero, but without someone who is providing motivation to such an engineer it also seems unlikely. Be it gambling or revenge or some other reason, if it is an engineer I would suspect someone is paying them. A lone saboteur is another option though.

But then again I do not favour any sabotage based answer.

As a driver, Lewis does stand out. He is dam fast. Is being able to extract that little extra from the engine coming at a cost? Unlikely but then again so are the odds for this if all is random. For me it is either random or some quirk of driver technique ever so slightly shifting the odds of the very fragile drivetrains.

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moby
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Re: Hmailton: "why me?"

Post by moby »

iano wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:I wish people would learn the difference between sabotage/vengeance and conspiracy. A single person doing something to derail another is not a conspiracy. Believing that someone has acted (secretly) or that one person is covering up their actions is not a conspiracy theory. A conspiracy, by definition, involves the actions of two people or more with shared knowledge i.e. conspiring.

Hamilton could possibly be the victim of some secret rogue behaviour but, if it's coming from one person, it's sabotage, not a conspiracy. So there's at least one more option that should be in the poll.

In any event, I think it's quite improbable. I do wonder if there's a difference in how Hamilton and Rosberg drive that creates more engine issues for Hamilton but until someone asked the question (and still now) I think it's random, i.e. bad luck.

It would be a nice thing for Rosberg fans, should he win the WDC because of reliability issues, to blame them on driving styles and therefore inferring that Rosberg was still the better driver.
I added your option of a lone Saboteur throwing their shoe in the engines, but it was just one of many I left off. Perhaps some orientation of how the garages are set up has meant that only Lewis has had sunshine at 4pm on his engines and that makes them break? :)

The chance of it being anything other than coincidence seems unlikely, but then, so does the chance that of 43 Mercedes engines with 3 failures, all three failures are Hamilton engines. So no explanation fits the 'likely' category.

The advantage of the 'lone saboteur' idea is it is far easier to keep things secret with only one person involved. But the challenge is motivation. If it is sabotage, then chances of more than one engineer involved would seem almost zero, but without someone who is providing motivation to such an engineer it also seems unlikely. Be it gambling or revenge or some other reason, if it is an engineer I would suspect someone is paying them. A lone saboteur is another option though.

But then again I do not favour any sabotage based answer.

As a driver, Lewis does stand out. He is dam fast. Is being able to extract that little extra from the engine coming at a cost? Unlikely but then again so are the odds for this if all is random. For me it is either random or some quirk of driver technique ever so slightly shifting the odds of the very fragile drivetrains.
I wonder how much of a rush job it was to get his extra engines lined up for one race?

No doubt they had the sub-assys there and ready, but I doubt the whole units would have been completed as they would not have known in advance if any "tokens" were spent on them and just assembly and disassembly could be detrimental to an engine?

Were corners cut, or equally valid, were components removed and replaced with newer ones and assumptions made.

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by breathemyexhaust »

Lotus49 wrote:
mcdo wrote:I believe that the way particular drivers drive used to have a big effect back in the day. These days the engineers would be all over it and could point out where the driver is going wrong. Lewis is good enough to adapt to anything the engineers tell him and I don't believe it's his driving style. Pure coincidence

It's certainly not the team. Anyone who thinks there's a conspiracy probably thinks 9/11 was an inside job and needs therapy
They were holograms I tell thee!! :x
Whether Mcdo or you like it or not, the question of whether foul play was involved in the events of September 11, 2001 is a legitimate point of debate. For him to use this unrelated topic as a forum to dismiss by-the-way and out of hand the persuasions of many well intentioned free-thinkers across the globe and for you to chime in like a good lickspittle chorus is highly offensive and small of the both of you. You can always sense the unease in those so ready to trot out the glib memes of tin foil hats and such like, attempting to browbeat and preempt any contrary voices from bothering to make themselves heard with these admittedly very effective imputations of silliness. As if actual conspiracies never occured on this earth and would not be perpetrated in the future.

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

Since once again Hamilton has thrown his toys out of the pram and slammed his employer, he has sealed his fate as far as any opportunity of driving for Ferrari. They don't take kindly to criticism,and for any of their drivers to do so is unacceptable.
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by mikeyg123 »

Blinky McSquinty wrote:Since once again Hamilton has thrown his toys out of the pram and slammed his employer, he has sealed his fate as far as any opportunity of driving for Ferrari. They don't take kindly to criticism,and for any of their drivers to do so is unacceptable.
They hired Alonso. Despite him saying something a lot stronger RE Renault in 06. And attempting to blackmail his team in 07.

If Hamilton was the best driver available I'm sure it wouldn't put them off.

TBH the sulk is part of the package with Hamilton. He has got a lot better though.

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by simonr23 »

It's obviously gods will! Lewis is a very religious person, so surely he is aware this is all happening for a reason, and it isn't for him to question...

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Blake »

mds wrote:Answer: because sh*t happens. You're all welcome.

:thumbup:

The most reasonable answer in the whole thread....
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by iano »

nixxxon wrote:
Zoue wrote:
nixxxon wrote:Conspiracy? Seriously? Can anyone actually believe a team like Mercedes would shoot themselves in the foot like that?
At the time of writing at least 8 people believe just that, it seems...

I don't know whether to laugh or cry :uhoh:
I mean you can believe conspiracy theories when there are team orders to alter the 1-2 result and stuff like that, but to go as far as making your own engine blow up??
Ridiculous...
I do not believe it is some conspiracy either, but in order to reject an idea it is best to first seriously consider the possibilities.

Who would initiate such a conspiracy? The team bosses, a gambling syndicate, someone within the team with a motivation for Rosberg to win?

I think you can count out the team bosses acting as a group. The more people involved, the less chance it could be kept secret.

Could one of the bosses alone co-opt a mechanic secretly? Not even that is likely as a rogue mechanic has to have more than that to keep it secret. Granted the team will still finish 1-2 so not much to lose....but nah... could never keep it secret!

Ok...what about gambling syndicate paying a mechanic. That would be a situation the mechanic could hardly blab about, but didn't they even shuffle mechanics around? You could say they already suspected something but it is still happening no explanation there.

There further you get from the team bosses all acting as a group the more realistic.....but still not realistic enough in my opinion.

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Prema »

"Why me?"
I know why. You sitting on the car minutes before the start, parading those gold chains on your chest... the car felt so :blush: that its poor hearth could not hold it through the race.

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by mcdo »

breathemyexhaust wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
mcdo wrote:I believe that the way particular drivers drive used to have a big effect back in the day. These days the engineers would be all over it and could point out where the driver is going wrong. Lewis is good enough to adapt to anything the engineers tell him and I don't believe it's his driving style. Pure coincidence

It's certainly not the team. Anyone who thinks there's a conspiracy probably thinks 9/11 was an inside job and needs therapy
They were holograms I tell thee!! :x
Whether Mcdo or you like it or not, the question of whether foul play was involved in the events of September 11, 2001 is a legitimate point of debate. For him to use this unrelated topic as a forum to dismiss by-the-way and out of hand the persuasions of many well intentioned free-thinkers across the globe and for you to chime in like a good lickspittle chorus is highly offensive and small of the both of you. You can always sense the unease in those so ready to trot out the glib memes of tin foil hats and such like, attempting to browbeat and preempt any contrary voices from bothering to make themselves heard with these admittedly very effective imputations of silliness. As if actual conspiracies never occured on this earth and would not be perpetrated in the future.
Well I'm free to think that it's offensive to the victims and their families but whatever floats your boat
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by fieldstvl »

The idea of a conspiracy against Hamilton is so ridiculous, and I suspect that by a very long way the most likely scenario is it's just bad luck. However, a brief glance back over F1's controversies makes the idea of a conspiracy not completely out of the question.

I suspect reading internet forums just prior to the confirmation of Piquet's intentional crash at Singapore would have had similar cries of 'no one could ever do something so ridiculous.'

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Amon »

mds wrote:Answer: because sh*t happens. You're all welcome.
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Lupin
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Lupin »

fieldstvl wrote:The idea of a conspiracy against Hamilton is so ridiculous, and I suspect that by a very long way the most likely scenario is it's just bad luck. However, a brief glance back over F1's controversies makes the idea of a conspiracy not completely out of the question.

I suspect reading internet forums just prior to the confirmation of Piquet's intentional crash at Singapore would have had similar cries of 'no one could ever do something so ridiculous.'
This is very true regarding the Singapore crash.

For me this is just Hamilton stirring the pot and provoking his fans into an online frenzy. It's funny that this happened the same week Button said the telemetry Hamilton tweeted wasn't even real, it was simulation data. And let's not forget the "maybe it's because I'm black" comment he made. (for the record I believe hamilton was joking when he said that and the words were taken out of context)

It's just Hamilton being Hamilton. Ignore and move on

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Asphalt_World »

Rosberg has been lucky not having the reliability issues Lewis had, but so what. People seem to think the WDC is a drivers championship alone. It's never been that. It's always a combination of driver and car and having reliability issues your team mate doesn't have is just part of the sport.

Football teams arguably loose cup finals and even league titles due to having a bad run of players getting injured. This does not take anything away from the teams that win, it's part of the sport. It can be damn annoying, but still it's part of the sport.
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stevey
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by stevey »

Why do people keep talking about luck?

I hope we are all intelligent enough to realise it doesn't exist.

There is however such a thing called cause and effect, somewhere down the line within the hundreds of components used to make the engine a weakness has occurred in a part that has since failed. Merc may not have a test that would illuminate such a weakness and therefore missed it on this occasion. Its impossible to say the fault is blameless as it has occurred when it should not and people are responsible for making this equipment and therefore someone is responsible.

In regards to someone being out the get Lewis I doubt it, the most likely hood is lack of quality control at some point, which must be addressed asap.

What we need now is both cars to be bullet proof for the remaining races, this includes the fault with the merc starts. Nothing would be worse than another failure in the upcoming races.

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

stevey wrote:Why do people keep talking about luck?

I hope we are all intelligent enough to realise it doesn't exist.
It's not bad luck that the engine fails, as you say there is a reason for it and someone, somewhere down the line is to blame.

However the fact it happens to Hamilton and not Nico this year is bad luck for Hamilton.

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by pokerman »

Blinky McSquinty wrote:
moby wrote:I would like to know exactly what the problem was in each case, which we never will. Other than that, forget "all those other engines and only me" because they are all packaged differently, and possibly given lower limits than him. And when I say lower limits, I also wonder if he does get to use it harder? For example, they are allowed a high mode for qualli. Is it possible that only Hamilton uses it to the absolute max? I doubt it would be contributory, but without the knowledge the team has, there is no way to include it or rule it out.

I dont think it is possible to directly affect an engine with driving style, well, short of high rev change downs, but who knows what a little knob twiddling can do :twisted:
But we regularly hear on the radio that the team is asking the driver to alter some software mode or alter their driving style because (for example) the brakes are over-heating. So yes, what the driver selects in the software or his driving style does have an effect on car reliability.
Yes because Hamilton has a history of blowing engines up in particular the last 2 years when he has been using similar engines, also with previous engines Mercedes have found defective parts, this notion is as ridiculous as people saying that Mercedes are conspiring against him.
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Asphalt_World »

I can't imagine any setting on the steering wheel would be used if it meant there was a decent chance of the engine failing. Unless there is a button labelled 'Self Destruct'. Perhaps it's next to the 'Eject' button!
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Ennis »

Asphalt_World wrote:I can't imagine any setting on the steering wheel would be used if it meant there was a decent chance of the engine failing. Unless there is a button labelled 'Self Destruct'. Perhaps it's next to the 'Eject' button!
There will be settings which definitely risk shortening the engine's shelf life, even if it isn't quite as simple as "Press this button to explode."

I think the idea of this being the root cause of Hamilton's issues is a little absurd though. Hamilton isn't stupid, he isn't the emotional wreck he was in 2011 and some individual occasions prior to that, his decision making and performance under pressure has been about as good as you can expect from someone. I think he, and the team, might have realised if he's using a setting causing his engine reliability to fall off a cliff.

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by tootsie323 »

Asphalt_World wrote:I can't imagine any setting on the steering wheel would be used if it meant there was a decent chance of the engine failing. Unless there is a button labelled 'Self Destruct'. Perhaps it's next to the 'Eject' button!
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Asphalt_World »

The teams know how the engine should last in the different modes providing all the parts are OK and it's been built to standard. They will not allow Lewis to use settings with the caveat that it will be faster, but won't go the distance.

I suspect it's simply a 5p faulty part.
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by pokerman »

fieldstvl wrote:The idea of a conspiracy against Hamilton is so ridiculous, and I suspect that by a very long way the most likely scenario is it's just bad luck. However, a brief glance back over F1's controversies makes the idea of a conspiracy not completely out of the question.

I suspect reading internet forums just prior to the confirmation of Piquet's intentional crash at Singapore would have had similar cries of 'no one could ever do something so ridiculous.'
Well only one has voted for it being a conspiracy whilst 4 have blamed Hamilton, so maybe Hamilton fans have the high ground on this? :)
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by pokerman »

Ennis wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:I can't imagine any setting on the steering wheel would be used if it meant there was a decent chance of the engine failing. Unless there is a button labelled 'Self Destruct'. Perhaps it's next to the 'Eject' button!
There will be settings which definitely risk shortening the engine's shelf life, even if it isn't quite as simple as "Press this button to explode."

I think the idea of this being the root cause of Hamilton's issues is a little absurd though. Hamilton isn't stupid, he isn't the emotional wreck he was in 2011 and some individual occasions prior to that, his decision making and performance under pressure has been about as good as you can expect from someone. I think he, and the team, might have realised if he's using a setting causing his engine reliability to fall off a cliff.
Hamilton himself has said that he wasn't pushing the engine.
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Zblogger »

Unsourced quotes removed.

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
lamo wrote:
optimisteprime wrote:Option 4) his reliability is entirely in line with everyone else on the grid and is vastly overblown by himself, his obsessive fans and the media.

This was his 4th mechanical retirement in 4 years at Mercedes and his first this year, it's completely mind boggling that that can be the basis of these conspiracy theories.

And yes, I'm aware he's had some issues outside of the retirements. But in reality all they amounted to were a couple of bad starting positions which didn't hurt all that much given how easy it's been to move forward in a Mercedes, and they were again completely in line with the number of issues most drivers on the grid have had.

Rosberg's probably had slightly fewer issues than most, but he's also had a grid penalty, he's had engine software problems at both Baku and Silverstone, his brakes failed while leading on the last lap in Austria handing the victory to Hamilton, and aside from mechanical issues he was taken out while leading at Barcelona and pushed off track at Montreal, so he's had his fair share of bad luck too.
Contradicted yourself, you say its entirely in line with everyone on the grid the later say Rosberg probably had slightly fewer issues.

Hamilton
- engine (china)
- engine (russia)
- engine (spa)
- engine (malaysia) 30 point swing in that one alone
- engine (baku)

Rosberg
- gearbox/brakes (austria) the grid penalty nearly won him the race. He still would have finished P2 where he would have started without the penalty if he didn't turn in on Lewis.
- gearbox (silverstone) lost 3 points

You are scraping the barrel if bringing up Nico running an engine mode for 1 lap in Baku as a technical issue.
I think it's a bit misleading to say engine at Spa. He got fresh units because of earlier issues, not because his units let him down in Belgium. It's basically counting double. And Baku wasn't a component failure, as such, although it does qualify as bad luck.
He still had to start the race at Spa from the back of the grid, I fail to see how you can throw this out?
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by djd77 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
TBH the sulk is part of the package with Hamilton. He has got a lot better though.
What is the required etiquette or appropriate behavior for a driver whose engine has blown in a critical race for the championship? :uhoh:

Is it .....

a)Should he spring out of the cockpit, say "oh darn gosh" click his heels and skip back to the garage with a smile on his face?

b)Or should they be completely dejected knowing this could put a severe dent in this seasons title hopes and show the relative emotions?

Why does it have to be considered sulking, when its is raw emotion being shown that everyone complains that other drivers never show?

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by pokerman »

Inappropriate post removed.
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pokerman
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by pokerman »

djd77 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TBH the sulk is part of the package with Hamilton. He has got a lot better though.
What is the required etiquette or appropriate behavior for a driver whose engine has blown in a critical race for the championship? :uhoh:

Is it .....

a)Should he spring out of the cockpit, say "oh darn gosh" click his heels and skip back to the garage with a smile on his face?

b)Or should they be completely dejected knowing this could put a severe dent in this seasons title hopes and show the relative emotions?

Why does it have to be considered sulking, when its is raw emotion being shown that everyone complains that other drivers never show?
Maybe because it is Hamilton?
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Pole Positions: 98 (1st)
Podiums: 165 (1st)


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dizlexik
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by dizlexik »

Lt. Drebin wrote:Kind of baffles why people make out if such a big thing, as if he downright lost the championship. There are 5 more races, and after the next race alone he can lead in points again. Nothing is over, far from that!
:thumbup:
eeee

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Blinky McSquinty
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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

pokerman wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
moby wrote:I would like to know exactly what the problem was in each case, which we never will. Other than that, forget "all those other engines and only me" because they are all packaged differently, and possibly given lower limits than him. And when I say lower limits, I also wonder if he does get to use it harder? For example, they are allowed a high mode for qualli. Is it possible that only Hamilton uses it to the absolute max? I doubt it would be contributory, but without the knowledge the team has, there is no way to include it or rule it out.

I dont think it is possible to directly affect an engine with driving style, well, short of high rev change downs, but who knows what a little knob twiddling can do :twisted:
But we regularly hear on the radio that the team is asking the driver to alter some software mode or alter their driving style because (for example) the brakes are over-heating. So yes, what the driver selects in the software or his driving style does have an effect on car reliability.
Yes because Hamilton has a history of blowing engines up in particular the last 2 years when he has been using similar engines, also with previous engines Mercedes have found defective parts, this notion is as ridiculous as people saying that Mercedes are conspiring against him.
How did you arrive at this conclusion after I pointed out that engineers in the pits do guide the drivers in maintaining the cars, and thus reliability? If you wish to refute that statement, I am open to an adult and logical reply, not one jumbled up in accusations, sarcasm, and raw emotions.

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Aspar »

Asphalt_World wrote:Rosberg has been lucky not having the reliability issues Lewis had, but so what. People seem to think the WDC is a drivers championship alone. It's never been that. It's always a combination of driver and car and having reliability issues your team mate doesn't have is just part of the sport.

Football teams arguably loose cup finals and even league titles due to having a bad run of players getting injured. This does not take anything away from the teams that win, it's part of the sport. It can be damn annoying, but still it's part of the sport.
Absolutely ridiculous comparison between f1 and football. If you are leading 3:0 and you get your best attacker injured you will 99% most probably still win the game.
If your engine blows, you are out, nothing, nada. Noone can replace you, you can't stop the race and get another car and continue from there, unlike an injured player and the sub might even perform better.
The latest big example - Ronaldo and Portugal.
Of course, when you win in F1, because your teammate didn't have the chance to race, due to the car breaking too much, this will put a shade on your title, especially if without those problems you wouldn't even be in lead.
That's not to say it's Rosberg's fault that this happens, but it is what it is, he is in the lead and most probably will win the WDC due to the problems LH had with his car, not due to Rosberg being better this season.

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Re: Hamilton: "why me?"

Post by Asphalt_World »

Aspar wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:Rosberg has been lucky not having the reliability issues Lewis had, but so what. People seem to think the WDC is a drivers championship alone. It's never been that. It's always a combination of driver and car and having reliability issues your team mate doesn't have is just part of the sport.

Football teams arguably loose cup finals and even league titles due to having a bad run of players getting injured. This does not take anything away from the teams that win, it's part of the sport. It can be damn annoying, but still it's part of the sport.
Absolutely ridiculous comparison between f1 and football. If you are leading 3:0 and you get your best attacker injured you will 99% most probably still win the game.
If your engine blows, you are out, nothing, nada. Noone can replace you, you can't stop the race and get another car and continue from there, unlike an injured player and the sub might even perform better.
The latest big example - Ronaldo and Portugal.
Of course, when you win in F1, because your teammate didn't have the chance to race, due to the car breaking too much, this will put a shade on your title, especially if without those problems you wouldn't even be in lead.
That's not to say it's Rosberg's fault that this happens, but it is what it is, he is in the lead and most probably will win the WDC due to the problems LH had with his car, not due to Rosberg being better this season.
Absolutely ridiculous interpretation of what I wrote. Never mind.
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Migen
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Re: Hmailton: "why me?"

Post by Migen »

flyboy10 wrote:I wish people would learn the difference between sabotage/vengeance and conspiracy. A single person doing something to derail another is not a conspiracy. Believing that someone has acted (secretly) or that one person is covering up their actions is not a conspiracy theory. A conspiracy, by definition, involves the actions of two people or more with shared knowledge i.e. conspiring.

Hamilton could possibly be the victim of some secret rogue behaviour but, if it's coming from one person, it's sabotage, not a conspiracy. So there's at least one more option that should be in the poll.

In any event, I think it's quite improbable. I do wonder if there's a difference in how Hamilton and Rosberg drive that creates more engine issues for Hamilton but until someone asked the question (and still now) I think it's random, i.e. bad luck.

It would be a nice thing for Rosberg fans, should he win the WDC because of reliability issues, to blame them on driving styles and therefore inferring that Rosberg was still the better driver.
I agree thats not totally impossible, but the possibilities are endless really and although lower in chance, it could also be totally the other way around, meaning:

All the mechanical failures Hamilton has suffered might be simply bad luck or "honest" slacking, while the unusual steering wheel issue or the DNF in the title decider in 2014 for Rosberg were due to sabotage by a rogue employee.

Whilst the scenario above its "unlikelier" to have happen, can anybody really rule it out 100%? The only honest answer is: NO.

The only thing we got atm is Hamilton having way more mechanical issues than Rosberg this season so far, which is not something unheard off, or something that never happen to other team-mates and/or other teams.
Just as an example: in 2012 at the same Mercedes team, in comparison with Rosberg, Schumacher probably had worst "luck" with mechanical issues than Hamilton currently, and yet such scenarios never crossed anybody's mind.

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Re: Hmailton: "why me?"

Post by mikeyg123 »

Migen wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:I wish people would learn the difference between sabotage/vengeance and conspiracy. A single person doing something to derail another is not a conspiracy. Believing that someone has acted (secretly) or that one person is covering up their actions is not a conspiracy theory. A conspiracy, by definition, involves the actions of two people or more with shared knowledge i.e. conspiring.

Hamilton could possibly be the victim of some secret rogue behaviour but, if it's coming from one person, it's sabotage, not a conspiracy. So there's at least one more option that should be in the poll.

In any event, I think it's quite improbable. I do wonder if there's a difference in how Hamilton and Rosberg drive that creates more engine issues for Hamilton but until someone asked the question (and still now) I think it's random, i.e. bad luck.

It would be a nice thing for Rosberg fans, should he win the WDC because of reliability issues, to blame them on driving styles and therefore inferring that Rosberg was still the better driver.
I agree thats not totally impossible, but the possibilities are endless really and although lower in chance, it could also be totally the other way around, meaning:

All the mechanical failures Hamilton has suffered might be simply bad luck or "honest" slacking, while the unusual steering wheel issue or the DNF in the title decider in 2014 for Rosberg were due to sabotage by a rogue employee.

Whilst the scenario above its "unlikelier" to have happen, can anybody really rule it out 100%? The only honest answer is: NO.

The only thing we got atm is Hamilton having way more mechanical issues than Rosberg this season so far, which is not something unheard off, or something that never happen to other team-mates and/or other teams.
Just as an example: in 2012 at the same Mercedes team, in comparison with Rosberg, Schumacher probably had worst "luck" with mechanical issues than Hamilton currently, and yet such scenarios never crossed anybody's mind.
We've got a little more than that.

There are 8 Mercedes engines on the grid.

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