FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped drivers?

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If Perez/Hulk were at Williams and Bottas/Massa FI, who would be 4th in the constructors?

Williams
15
65%
Force India
3
13%
Don't know/to close to call
5
22%
 
Total votes: 23

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Randine
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FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped drivers?

Post by Randine »

What a great job by Force India of late to pull a head of Williams in the constructors at Spa.
Force India are now 4th and Williams 5th.

Williams have achieved 3rd in the constructors 2 years in a row in 2014 & 2015.
Williams are also earning 55 million pounds more cash in both prize money and also some key sponsors like Unilever = Rexona.
But this year they seem to have no answers even with more resources on hand.

Which made me think how much are the drivers playing a part?

If the Hulk and Perez drove for Williams and Bottas and Massa drove for Force India, who would be 4th in the constructors?

Massa has been quick in the past. He has 16 career poles to his name.
However his recent beating by Alonso at Ferrari made many question how good he really is.
Bottas was the next big thing in F1. A shoe in at Ferrari. That was 2 years ago.
Is Massa driving in career best form in 2014 and 2015, or is Bottas just not the man we thought he was?

Hulk. Le Mans winner 2015. Considered by many including Alonso to be very quick. Seems to have missed his chance at a top drive.
Perez. Used to be hot headed and make a few mistakes. Can get a lot out of the tyres as shown in his Sauber days, and his podiums this year have been amazing. He didn't quite live up to Button at McLaren, but then again he wasn't really part of the team as they booted him at their first opportunity.

I tend to think if Williams did have Perez and Hulk, then they would be 4th in the constructors.
However to say that is to write off Bottas...
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Deep_blue
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Re: FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped driver

Post by Deep_blue »

In my opinion, the pair Hulk/Perez is in another league compared to Massa/Bottas, I think drivers are having a huge rol in Force India recent form. No doubt for me thar if you swap drivers, Williams would end on top and definitely would be challenging for better positions

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infi24r
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Re: FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped driver

Post by infi24r »

Massa and Bottas is a pretty average driver lineup.

While Hulk and Perez is strong.

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Amon
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Re: FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped driver

Post by Amon »

Williams
Massa certainly is the weakest link at Williams. But Bottas is only slightly better. If they can they should sign an experienced top driver (not Massa) and a promising young driver (not Bottas).
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GingerFurball
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Re: FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped driver

Post by GingerFurball »

Hülkenberg and Perez is an insanely strong lineup for a mjdfield team. They're both easily good enough to race for a top team as a number 2 driver.

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Amon
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Re: FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped driver

Post by Amon »

Randine wrote: Bottas was the next big thing in F1. A shoe in at Ferrari. That was 2 years ago.
Is Massa driving in career best form in 2014 and 2015, or is Bottas just not the man we thought he was?

However to say that is to write off Bottas...
I think Bottas and Massa have been majorly flattered by their cars last few seasons. At 1 point they were even second best, but no wins despite Merc dropping the ball a few times. RBR and Ferrari have taken the opportunities instead. To think Williams asked more money for Bottas than Ferrari was prepared to give tells me Ferrari surely just wanted him to be a number 2 to Vettel. Bottas is solid, a safe pair of hands which he was from his debut until now. The wow factor he is supposed to have I haven't seen at any point.
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motorfinger
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Re: FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped driver

Post by motorfinger »

Its the car that makes the difference in their battle. I don't see some big disparity in their driving ability. Though i agree Massa seems to be in the worst form currently, but i think he probably knows his days in sport are numbered and is just going through the motions.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped driver

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

I'm really not sure about this so I've gone for the "Don't know/to close to call" option. I'm quite surprised by how highly many people rate both Perez and Hulkenberg. I an understand that Perez alone is now pretty impressive but Hulkenberg hasn't been as good in the past 2 years IMO. I think Bottas is just a little more solid than Perez is now but I think he is a bit better still than Hulkenburg. Hulkenberg has made several mistakes that have given him penalties in the past couple of years from what I can remember. Last year, Perez also did too. Perez is more consistent now but I still think Bottas is the most solid. IMO, it is the Williams car that is clearly going downhill. I think that Bottas got the most out of it in 2014. I don't think it was quite as good a car as many people said it was. In interviews this year, Bottas has always said one thing that the Williams has been bad at ever since 2014 is grip round the corners. I still reckon it will have been a pretty hard car to drive in 2014 compared to others. (but just really streamlined and fast on the straights which I know will have helped a lot) Bottas also hardly ever makes mistakes either. The only one I can think of was Barrain this year. Other than that he has made rather a lot less mistakes than Hulkenberg or Perez over the past 3 years. Even the commentators mentioned towards the end of last year that Bottas had never had a penalty for anything that was his own fault. Since then as I said, his only penalty that was quite clearly his fault was in Bahrain. Bottas is also one of the very few to have finished every race this year. He has only missed out on points on two occasions. I often feel that Bottas is underrated as many people seem to say they find him rather boring. I can't say he is very interesting either but being solid and consistent like he is is just as important to me.
I think it is that Force India are getting better and Williams are getting weaker that makes a lot of people think the Perez and Hulkenberg are looking better. Although Massa has had to retire in 3 of his races through no fault of his own, I think he is now starting to show that he isn't that good any more in a several of the races. Although he was the only driver this year to score points in all of the first 6 races. I still think that Massa still has his moments though and shows that he is still pretty good at times. But then I think Perez and Hulkenberg have plenty of these moments too.

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Lotus49
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Re: FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped driver

Post by Lotus49 »

Hulk/Perez for me is the stronger line up so i'd say if they were in the Williams they would still be 4th but to be fair the FI has been the better car for a while now.
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KingVoid
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Re: FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped driver

Post by KingVoid »

Force India definitely have the stronger line-up IMO.

Williams need a new, young, hungry driver.

Massa stopped giving a crap a long time ago.

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Remmirath
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Re: FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped driver

Post by Remmirath »

While I do think that Pérez and Hülkenberg are a stronger pair of drivers than Massa and Bottas, I'm not sure that's what's making the whole difference, or even most of it. Williams' development doesn't seem to have been very good this season, and they're suffering through the corners compared to most of the rest of the field. Force India don't seem to be having that problem, and I suspect that they have just built a better car this season. Therefore, I voted for "too close to call".
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Alex53
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Re: FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped driver

Post by Alex53 »

Difficult to tell, but out of the 4 drivers, Massa really looks like he is done in F1.

TheGiantHogweed
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Re: FI vs Williams - who would be 4th if they swapped driver

Post by TheGiantHogweed »

Alex53 wrote:Difficult to tell, but out of the 4 drivers, Massa really looks like he is done in F1.
I hope people are only basing this on his recent performance. As he was the only driver on the grid to score points in all of the first 6 races. He also had to retire in 3 out of the last 7 races and none of his retirements were his own fault. However, out of the 3 recent races he has finished in, his performance hasn't been that good. As I said earlier though, I think Bottas is one of the most solid and consistent driverers on the grid. That to me made me decide that I just wouldn't know what would happen as I don't think the Force India driver line up is much stronger.

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