planetf1.com

This is interesting because it opens up a game musical chairs we thought was only possible with the whole Rosberg/Raikkonen scenario that would snowball into a merry go round between drivers and teams.

With Perez stating he feels he needs to move for a chance to fight for a title, Williams stating publicly they have their eye on Button, and Grosjean's contract up at the end of the year, McLaren not saying what they are planning, Kvyat seemingly on the way out at Toro Rosso, a bunch of possibilities can arise.

If Bottas leaves Williams, will they retain Massa?

Will Williams take on Perez and Button II?

Will Williams take on Perez and Kvyat?

Who will land in the 2nd Force India and McLaren seats?

Will Palmer be given a chance with another team?

Will Red Bull forego giving a shot to one of their young drivers and give the 2nd seat to a veteran?
(it has been said no one in their YDP is ready for F1 so if they give Kvyat the axe who will be in the 2nd car? Perhaps another bold move and try an inexperience guy a chance as they did with Verstappen?

Will McLaren give Vandorn the seat?

Will McLaren entertain rehiring Perez since he and Alonso get on quite well and Perez has given reason to consider him?

Will any of these guys be lured away by Sauber's new owners?
(provided they have the money and are serious enough to try and get a top driver)


Discuss.

Renault is circling in the crisis, it will take them a couple of years to jump other strong competitors, if ever.

Williams would be wise to keep at least Massa, he did not under-performed at all, the string of bad results are mostly due to circumstances beyond his power. He was the driver with the longest string of point scoring this year. But, Williams is going backwards full speed at the moment.

If Bottas has the chance to go to Renault he should jump at it. If I was Renault I would take Perez though.

In fact if I was Renault I'd be knocking on Button's door. He is probably the best available driver.

mikeyg123 wrote:If Bottas has the chance to go to Renault he should jump at it. If I was Renault I would take Perez though.

In fact if I was Renault I'd be knocking on Button's door. He is probably the best available driver.

Any combination between Button, Perez and Bottas would greatly benefit any team.

Lt. Drebin wrote:Renault is circling in the crisis, it will take them a couple of years to jump other strong competitors, if ever.

Williams would be wise to keep at least Massa, he did not under-performed at all, the string of bad results are mostly due to circumstances beyond his power. He was the driver with the longest string of point scoring this year. But, Williams is going backwards full speed at the moment.

Renault always succeed in F1. Always.

They are in a know worse position now than they were in 01 and they had a winning car in 03. If you want to win a championship they're is no point staying at Williams.

Williams should change Massa if they can get a better driver.

mikeyg123 wrote:If Bottas has the chance to go to Renault he should jump at it. If I was Renault I would take Perez though.

In fact if I was Renault I'd be knocking on Button's door. He is probably the best available driver.

Yep, fully agree with this. Works team over Williams? Shouldn't even have to think about it

Yesterday on GPToday there was the headline "Renault wants charismatic driver" and right next to it was "Bottas has concrete offer from Renault". With all respect my garden shed has more charisma than Valtteri.

For Renault he would certainly be a step in the right direction because he knows his way round the block by now and has experience of what is needed to get a car onto the podium, and also in 2013 had to spend a year developing a very poor car. He is an upgrade on Palmer who threw away a great shot at points in Hungary, and Magnussen who hasn't overshadowed him that majorly and has a habbit of getting into shunts. But I think Perez, Hulkenberg and Grosjean have at least comparable experience/talents, are more charismatic and both Sergio and RoGro are proven at sneeking good results in underdog machinery. Overall I think though that Button should be the main target, his career speaks for itself and he is still very capable.

massa has nothing more to offer than the occasional reasonable result and is done and in all honesty how did he get a drive this year -Williams should have and could have done better, and if I was McLaren , I would keep button for 2017 .....to put up with 2 years of a dog of a car , and to be ousted Just as the car gets better , if McLaren are serious about getting the 2017 wdc, they need button and Alonso to develop the car as its gets closer to the front

mikeyg123 wrote:If Bottas has the chance to go to Renault he should jump at it. If I was Renault I would take Perez though.

In fact if I was Renault I'd be knocking on Button's door. He is probably the best available driver.

I think Button would be ideal for Renault but would he be prepared to wait for them to come good after years of waiting on McLaren?

slide wrote:massa has nothing more to offer than the occasional reasonable result and is done and in all honesty how did he get a drive this year -Williams should have and could have done better, and if I was McLaren , I would keep button for 2017 .....to put up with 2 years of a dog of a car , and to be ousted Just as the car gets better , if McLaren are serious about getting the 2017 wdc, they need button and Alonso to develop the car as its gets closer to the front

Do drivers really develop the car itself?

My prediction for drivers next years:

Vandoorne - promoted to McLaren race-seat
Button - Signs for Williams
Bottas - Moves to Renault (should, in any case - unlikely that he is going to challenge at the front in that Williams)
Perez - I think Renault, but might stay in FI if Renault sign Bottas and retain Magnussen as a known benchmark
Kvyat - 10% chance he stays at Toro Rosso, but dependent on his performance post the summer break. Most likely out of TR and F1
Wehrlein - Possibly partners Button at Williams, or stays at Manor for another season

mikeyg123 wrote:If Bottas has the chance to go to Renault he should jump at it. If I was Renault I would take Perez though.

In fact if I was Renault I'd be knocking on Button's door. He is probably the best available driver.

I think Perez and Bottas would be the best combination for Renault.

Button's only chance to stay I think is a romantic reunion with Williams next year, or he could well retire.

I do not believe Williams will ever win another championship.

Renault I don't think will win a big one in the next 3-5 years, but I think there is a chance. If I'm Bottas, I'm trying to get the Renault seat. Had some good times at Williams, but it's not the best long term prospect I don't think.

Trends in F1 perhaps don't mean much and a single innovation can sometimes be the key. But I feel like Williams have been mostly on the downhill since 97, though they did have some slump busting cars in the early 00s. They struck it lucky that they made a decent car to go with having the best engine for 2014. 2014 they scored 9 podiums and 320 points finished 3rd. 2015 they kept 3rd but dropped to 257 points and 4 podiums. This season? Well, extrapolating and it looks like we might see 4th, about 200 points and 2 podiums. At the core I think the truth is just as simple as the size of the budget. I do believe a well run team with good people can do more with less. But I doubt they can do enough more to regularly beat teams like Mercedes, McLaren-Honda, Ferrari and Red Bull and their big chequebooks. Unless Williams get one hell of a sponsor, or a tie-up with a major car manufacturer (have we had any VW to F1 rumours this week?) I don't see them being in a position to fight for a WDC. They may get podiums and wins every now and then though.

If the contracts are only one year though, the question is much harder. Renault I do think are going to make a big jump next year. Williams will probably be a solid 10th-5th kind of race finishing position. I think Williams, for one more year, is the safer option but Renault have a wider range that could be good or bad.

Jenson could go back to Williams. I'm not sure I see the real point. If he wants to stay in F1 and collect his paycheque, I get that. If he had had his major successes at Williams then I think he adds value and maybe a long term gig as an ambassador of sorts. But his biggest successes are Brawn (6 wins, 1 WDC) and McLaren (8 or so wins). Williams was his first year only, so the narrative of bookending isn't compelling for me. Don't get me wrong here, I'd take Jenson assuming I can get him at a fair price. It depends really, I think, if Jenson wants the potential risk of F1 for the price he's getting paid. Maybe he loves the thrill. Maybe he wants the extra few million. Maybe he realises he probably won't get another win by sticking around in 2016 and decides to go sit on a beach (or do some more triathalons or whatever).




Short version:
If I was Bottas I go to Renault.
If I was Renault, I'd be trying to get Perez.
If I was Button, the Williams seat is only really enticing if I want the paycheque and to stay in F1 another year. There are probably not any major results(WDC, wins and to a lesser extent poles) left at that team in the near future.
I don't think Williams have the cash to be a top competitor the way F1 is these days.

Does anyone actually think Button will still be at McLaren next year?

ALESI wrote:Does anyone actually think Button will still be at McLaren next year?

I would be REALLY surprised if Button was still at McLaren next year. It wouldn't make any sense to me. And that's not because I don't rate him: far from it. I think he's still one of the best out there. But Vandoorne's not going to wait around for ever and he's the future. They have one excellent benchmark in Alonso already so they an afford to take a chance and even Alonso's not going to be around for ever, either. They need to start looking towards the future IMO, as harsh as that may sound for Button.

ALESI wrote:Does anyone actually think Button will still be at McLaren next year?

I think Button has had enough of Mclaren, even if they offer him the seat, which seems unlikely

I speculated this in the Silly Season thread two months ago:

[quote=Jenson's Understeer]Renault: Magnussen? Massa? Ocon? Sainz? Bottas? Perez? - their line-up seems the hardest to predict. Massa's been linked there if they wanted an experienced driver. Sainz's name has been mentioned but with Red Bull keeping him at Toro Rosso the likelihood of that happening appears diminished. Ocon's a contender as well. Magnussen seems the more likely to be retained of their current drivers. Maybe they'd use the fact that they're a works team to try and entice Bottas or Perez away from their current teams? There hasn't been any such speculation but with the Ferrari seat gone, perhaps we'll now start to see it?[/quote]

If I'm Renault and I can attract Perez and Bottas, I grab them both. Funny thing is I was also saying I thought Button's best option would be a two-year deal at Renault because I felt they had a better chance of making a significant move up the grid in one of those years than Williams do. Right now I'd probably take Button > Perez > Bottas. Bottas' stock has fallen a little whilst Perez has definitely rebuilt his, plus the fact he brings a healthy amount of sponsors really helps tip that decision in his favour. Where Ocon fits I'm not sure; if he looks terrible against Wehrlein (which he shouldn't) then I wonder if he actually loses out because of it.

Jenson has previously stated that he would only go to a team that can challenge for the title. Williams, on recent evidence, is not that team. With Stoffel in the wings and a decision required by September, unless McLaren can 'loan' him to a team I think that Jenson will leave at the end of 2016. Even as a Jenson fan I would choose to keep Fernando over him.
My guess is that unless he goes to Renault for next season (and most likely on a 2-3 year contract) Jenson will retire from F1. Shame - I would so love to see him challenge again.

A.J. wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:If Bottas has the chance to go to Renault he should jump at it. If I was Renault I would take Perez though.

In fact if I was Renault I'd be knocking on Button's door. He is probably the best available driver.

I think Perez and Bottas would be the best combination for Renault.

Button's only chance to stay I think is a romantic reunion with Williams next year, or he could well retire.

I think Ocon is nailed on for Renault

ALESI wrote:Does anyone actually think Button will still be at McLaren next year?

No

Zoue wrote:

ALESI wrote:Does anyone actually think Button will still be at McLaren next year?

I would be REALLY surprised if Button was still at McLaren next year. It wouldn't make any sense to me. And that's not because I don't rate him: far from it. I think he's still one of the best out there. But Vandoorne's not going to wait around for ever and he's the future. They have one excellent benchmark in Alonso already so they an afford to take a chance and even Alonso's not going to be around for ever, either. They need to start looking towards the future IMO, as harsh as that may sound for Button.

Yes this is what I don't get for the argument that Button should be kept in part for his experience, if you already have Alonso in the other seat then you can afford to groom a younger driver.

Bottas and Ocon at Renault
Button and K Mag at Williams
Perez stays at FI

We lose Massa and Palmer. My best guess.

pokerman wrote:

Zoue wrote:

ALESI wrote:Does anyone actually think Button will still be at McLaren next year?

I would be REALLY surprised if Button was still at McLaren next year. It wouldn't make any sense to me. And that's not because I don't rate him: far from it. I think he's still one of the best out there. But Vandoorne's not going to wait around for ever and he's the future. They have one excellent benchmark in Alonso already so they an afford to take a chance and even Alonso's not going to be around for ever, either. They need to start looking towards the future IMO, as harsh as that may sound for Button.

Yes this is what I don't get for the argument that Button should be kept in part for his experience, if you already have Alonso in the other seat then you can afford to groom a younger driver.

Indeed, and that is accentuated by McLaren having the best prospect outside of F1 as the guy they would be replacing Button with.

pokerman wrote:

A.J. wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:If Bottas has the chance to go to Renault he should jump at it. If I was Renault I would take Perez though.

In fact if I was Renault I'd be knocking on Button's door. He is probably the best available driver.

I think Perez and Bottas would be the best combination for Renault.

Button's only chance to stay I think is a romantic reunion with Williams next year, or he could well retire.

I think Ocon is nailed on for Renault

I've always thought of Ocon as more of a Mercedes driver, so I'd ultimately expect them to place him at Manor rather than him have a seat at a rival works team.

It's a bit of a strange situation though with him having close ties to Mercedes and obviously Renault too having driven for them this year, so who knows.

Black_Flag_11 wrote:

pokerman wrote:

A.J. wrote:

mikeyg123 wrote:If Bottas has the chance to go to Renault he should jump at it. If I was Renault I would take Perez though.

In fact if I was Renault I'd be knocking on Button's door. He is probably the best available driver.

I think Perez and Bottas would be the best combination for Renault.

Button's only chance to stay I think is a romantic reunion with Williams next year, or he could well retire.

I think Ocon is nailed on for Renault

I've always thought of Ocon as more of a Mercedes driver, so I'd ultimately expect them to place him at Manor rather than him have a seat at a rival works team.

It's a bit of a strange situation though with him having close ties to Mercedes and obviously Renault too having driven for them this year, so who knows.

Mercedes and Renault have close business ties though and this is why they were happy with Ocon being announced as the Renault reserve driver.

Mercedes know they can't offer him a race seat any time soon and the fact they have been happy with Ocon also driving the Renault F1 car I think points to the fact they would not block Renault from giving him a race seat.

I still think Renault should take Alonso.

dizlexik wrote:I still think Renault should take Alonso.

I agree!!
However McLaren do look to be improving, and if they can sort that engine out, who knows where they might be next year.

I think Bottas should jump to Renault if he has the chance. If he stays another few years at Williams he may never get a look in for a top drive.
His stock has already fallen and there are quite a few younger up and coming drivers.

Not really related but check this video of an RC Williams of Massa in the wet.
The hands and helmet move when it turns.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCmc39SPSZc

If I were Bottas I would sign for Renault... they are expected to improve and become competitive sooner or later. On the other hand Williams is a customer team and they are fading into the midfield.

Randine wrote:

dizlexik wrote:I still think Renault should take Alonso.

I agree!!
However McLaren do look to be improving, and if they can sort that engine out, who knows where they might be next year.

I think Bottas should jump to Renault if he has the chance. If he stays another few years at Williams he may never get a look in for a top drive.
His stock has already fallen and there are quite a few younger up and coming drivers.

Not really related but check this video of an RC Williams of Massa in the wet.
The hands and helmet move when it turns.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCmc39SPSZc

Great video. Shows how different physics are involved on smaller scale. Once when Williams will be able to drive like that on the rain with slicks, as in video, they will be contenders fro WDC again, tough Massa did not ashamed himself in the wet Silverstone race, beating Bottas in the process.

Lt. Drebin wrote:Renault is circling in the crisis, it will take them a couple of years to jump other strong competitors, if ever.

Williams would be wise to keep at least Massa, he did not under-performed at all, the string of bad results are mostly due to circumstances beyond his power. He was the driver with the longest string of point scoring this year. But, Williams is going backwards full speed at the moment.

Given the negative comments we tend to hear about Bottas now, his star has waned etc., why would you want to keep a driver who gets constantly beaten by Bottas?

Would be a smart move for Bottas if he can get it. He's got next to no chance of scoring race wins, never mind titles, at Williams. Moving to a works team, particularly one with the pedigree in F1 that Renault have, gives him a much better shot.

Randine wrote:

So much grip lol

I wonder if the aero and design works and creates downforce in small scale too

pokerman wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:Renault is circling in the crisis, it will take them a couple of years to jump other strong competitors, if ever.

Williams would be wise to keep at least Massa, he did not under-performed at all, the string of bad results are mostly due to circumstances beyond his power. He was the driver with the longest string of point scoring this year. But, Williams is going backwards full speed at the moment.

Given the negative comments we tend to hear about Bottas now, his star has waned etc., why would you want to keep a driver who gets constantly beaten by Bottas?

Massa is not constantly being beaten by Bottas. Even the Williams staff says they are quite matched. Massa had little luck in last few races, but he scored points in first 6 races, beating Bottas 4:2, and had quite a good race in wet, compared to Bottas in wet Silverstone.

Lt. Drebin wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:Renault is circling in the crisis, it will take them a couple of years to jump other strong competitors, if ever.

Williams would be wise to keep at least Massa, he did not under-performed at all, the string of bad results are mostly due to circumstances beyond his power. He was the driver with the longest string of point scoring this year. But, Williams is going backwards full speed at the moment.

Given the negative comments we tend to hear about Bottas now, his star has waned etc., why would you want to keep a driver who gets constantly beaten by Bottas?

Massa is not constantly being beaten by Bottas. Even the Williams staff says they are quite matched. Massa had little luck in last few races, but he scored points in first 6 races, beating Bottas 4:2, and had quite a good race in wet, compared to Bottas in wet Silverstone.

But overall is being beaten by Bottas for the third straight season.

Bottas had some bad luck at the start of the season, with a gearbox penalty in Oz and a drive through in Bahrain for that first corner collision with Lewis, which I regard as a racing incident.

Massa I just don't see the point in him being there. He's been comfortably beaten by his teammate for 9 consecutive seasons now, last year was as close as he has been.

mikeyg123 wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:

pokerman wrote:

Lt. Drebin wrote:Renault is circling in the crisis, it will take them a couple of years to jump other strong competitors, if ever.

Williams would be wise to keep at least Massa, he did not under-performed at all, the string of bad results are mostly due to circumstances beyond his power. He was the driver with the longest string of point scoring this year. But, Williams is going backwards full speed at the moment.

Given the negative comments we tend to hear about Bottas now, his star has waned etc., why would you want to keep a driver who gets constantly beaten by Bottas?

Massa is not constantly being beaten by Bottas. Even the Williams staff says they are quite matched. Massa had little luck in last few races, but he scored points in first 6 races, beating Bottas 4:2, and had quite a good race in wet, compared to Bottas in wet Silverstone.

But overall is being beaten by Bottas for the third straight season.

Yep out qualified and out scored every season by a driver thought to be on the wane by some.

Banana Man wrote:Bottas had some bad luck at the start of the season, with a gearbox penalty in Oz and a drive through in Bahrain for that first corner collision with Lewis, which I regard as a racing incident.

Massa I just don't see the point in him being there. He's been comfortably beaten by his teammate for 9 consecutive seasons now, last year was as close as he has been.

Just to be pedantic it's 7 consecutive seasons, not that it makes it any better as such.

McLaren really cannot afford to have Vandoorne another year in the waiting wings if they do he will be a free customer and probably snatched up by Renault. I like to see Jenson end his career at the team that gave him his first F1 experience. I think it would be rather weird to see Jenson out of F1 and Kimi still there. Massa I hope will gracefully retire and not hang on Rubens' style.

So yes Button and Bottas for Williams. Renault to stick with Magnussen and replace Palmer with Ocon. Wehrlein and Perez remain at their current teams. Kvyat out of F1 and replaced by a new Red Bull prospect. Hopefully Sauber gets better drivers than their current line-up and Haas replaces Gutierrez with Rossi or another good prospect.

pokerman wrote:

Banana Man wrote:Bottas had some bad luck at the start of the season, with a gearbox penalty in Oz and a drive through in Bahrain for that first corner collision with Lewis, which I regard as a racing incident.

Massa I just don't see the point in him being there. He's been comfortably beaten by his teammate for 9 consecutive seasons now, last year was as close as he has been.

Just to be pedantic it's 7 consecutive seasons, not that it makes it any better as such.

My bad, had 07 and 08 the wrong way around for a second there. Also was including this season thus far.

Banana Man wrote:Bottas had some bad luck at the start of the season, with a gearbox penalty in Oz and a drive through in Bahrain for that first corner collision with Lewis, which I regard as a racing incident.

Massa I just don't see the point in him being there. He's been comfortably beaten by his teammate for 9 consecutive seasons now, last year was as close as he has been.

Massa was the only driver to score points in all of the first 6 races. In the 6 races after that, he has had to retire in half of them through no fault of his own. Bottas is beating him but has had better luck. I am still pretty sure Bottas would still be ahead even if Massa had better luck though, just not by as much.