I'm calling it now.

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Jezza13
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I'm calling it now.

Post by Jezza13 »

Open PU development, new aero regs.

As much as I hate to say it, and believe me, I do hate to say it.

Verstappen will win the 2017 WDC (Oh the pain, the pain x( ).
Only took 7 yrs, 5 mths & 21 days.

Cooper, Arrows, Brabham, Ligier, Lotus, Tyrrell, Minardi, McLaren, Sauber, Williams,

Remember the garagista's. The heart & soul of F1. They raced to race.

2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)

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mcdo
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by mcdo »

Dunno if I'd go that far that soon but I'm seeing so many parallels with early Schumacher. I believe Vandoorne is the only hope for the non-Max believers
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Jezza13
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Jezza13 »

mcdo wrote:Dunno if I'd go that far that soon but I'm seeing so many parallels with early Schumacher. I believe Vandoorne is the only hope for the non-Max believers
Maybe it's the Bourbon talking, maybe it's the Codeine tablets or maybe I'm just having an episode but I just think everything is falling into place for RB to really challenge or if not, overtake Merc next year and Verstappen will walk away with the chocky's.

He's driving well :frown: .
Only took 7 yrs, 5 mths & 21 days.

Cooper, Arrows, Brabham, Ligier, Lotus, Tyrrell, Minardi, McLaren, Sauber, Williams,

Remember the garagista's. The heart & soul of F1. They raced to race.

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mcdo
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by mcdo »

Jezza13 wrote:He's driving well :frown: .
Dunno why that's a bad thing. 4 titles for Vettel, I personally believe it'll be 4 titles for Hamilton, the likes of Kimi and Massa are still hanging around

It's time for the new wave
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Maranello1
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Maranello1 »

mcdo wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:He's driving well :frown: .
Dunno why that's a bad thing. 4 titles for Vettel, I personally believe it'll be 4 titles for Hamilton, the likes of Kimi and Massa are still hanging around

It's time for the new wave
We're due for a really close year between multiple constructors. I will resort to prayer if necessary.

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by mikeyg123 »

Whats wrong with Verstappen?

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Jezza13 »

mcdo wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:He's driving well :frown: .
Dunno why that's a bad thing
Because i'm Australian and i'm cranky that's why.
Only took 7 yrs, 5 mths & 21 days.

Cooper, Arrows, Brabham, Ligier, Lotus, Tyrrell, Minardi, McLaren, Sauber, Williams,

Remember the garagista's. The heart & soul of F1. They raced to race.

2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)

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mcdo
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by mcdo »

Jezza13 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:He's driving well :frown: .
Dunno why that's a bad thing
Because i'm Australian and i'm cranky that's why.
:lol: Fair enough
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Randine
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Randine »

Jezza13 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:He's driving well :frown: .
Dunno why that's a bad thing
Because i'm Australian and i'm cranky that's why.
Me too.
I think with the faster cars and more performance based wider tyres that experience will be more beneficial.
Max is quick. I believe drivers don't get quicker, they just make less mistakes with experience.
MAx went off track twice in turn 1 today, so he still does make a few mistakes.

I still believe Ric will win the WDC in 2017.
Dan the man!


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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by UnlikeUday »

Jezza13 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:He's driving well :frown: .
Dunno why that's a bad thing
Because i'm Australian and i'm cranky that's why.
You need to 'Foster' your grudge for a while though.
Feel The Fourth

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Andy2402 »

Randine wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:He's driving well :frown: .
Dunno why that's a bad thing
Because i'm Australian and i'm cranky that's why.
Me too.
I think with the faster cars and more performance based wider tyres that experience will be more beneficial.
Max is quick. I believe drivers don't get quicker, they just make less mistakes with experience.
MAx went off track twice in turn 1 today, so he still does make a few mistakes.

I still believe Ric will win the WDC in 2017.
It would be great to see Lewis take that title when closely thought with another team. However outside of that result would love smiler to get the wdc

Re original post , he's definitely got it in him

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IDrinkYourMilkshake
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by IDrinkYourMilkshake »

I agree with the miffed Aussie OP.

Red Bull could be the team to beat next year, and Verstappen is only increasing the gap to Ricciardo, and Ferrari seem to just have no inclination to reform their philosophy, their poisonous politics, their lethargic driver strategy.

Verstappen it is.

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Jezza13 »

UnlikeUday wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:He's driving well :frown: .
Dunno why that's a bad thing
Because i'm Australian and i'm cranky that's why.
You need to 'Foster' your grudge for a while though.
The only place you'll find an Australian drinking that rubbish is in the UK. We don't touch that rot inside Australia.

After the Webber years and now the last few races, it's going to take more than some poor excuse for beer to lull my rage at the current situation.

Just hope DR can catch a break and start to put it back together.

Australia needs it. I need it :-(( .
Only took 7 yrs, 5 mths & 21 days.

Cooper, Arrows, Brabham, Ligier, Lotus, Tyrrell, Minardi, McLaren, Sauber, Williams,

Remember the garagista's. The heart & soul of F1. They raced to race.

2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Andy2402 »

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:I agree with the miffed Aussie OP.

Red Bull could be the team to beat next year, and Verstappen is only increasing the gap to Ricciardo, and Ferrari seem to just have no inclination to reform their philosophy, their poisonous politics, their lethargic driver strategy.

Verstappen it is.
What gap?

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by UnlikeUday »

Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:He's driving well :frown: .
Dunno why that's a bad thing
Because i'm Australian and i'm cranky that's why.
You need to 'Foster' your grudge for a while though.
The only place you'll find an Australian drinking that rubbish is in the UK. We don't touch that rot inside Australia.

After the Webber years and now the last few races, it's going to take more than some poor excuse for beer to lull my rage at the current situation.

Just hope DR can catch a break and start to put it back together.

Australia needs it. I need it :-(( .
DR will for sure, if You believe in his tenacity to deliver.
Feel The Fourth

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by IDrinkYourMilkshake »

Andy2402 wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:I agree with the miffed Aussie OP.

Red Bull could be the team to beat next year, and Verstappen is only increasing the gap to Ricciardo, and Ferrari seem to just have no inclination to reform their philosophy, their poisonous politics, their lethargic driver strategy.

Verstappen it is.
What gap?
Oh dear.

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Andy2402 »

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Andy2402 wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:I agree with the miffed Aussie OP.

Red Bull could be the team to beat next year, and Verstappen is only increasing the gap to Ricciardo, and Ferrari seem to just have no inclination to reform their philosophy, their poisonous politics, their lethargic driver strategy.

Verstappen it is.
What gap?
Oh dear.
I'm honestly asking you a question, but based on the fact you truly believe there was a gap between max and ric in the race today it's probably not worth it

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by IDrinkYourMilkshake »

Andy2402 wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Andy2402 wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:I agree with the miffed Aussie OP.

Red Bull could be the team to beat next year, and Verstappen is only increasing the gap to Ricciardo, and Ferrari seem to just have no inclination to reform their philosophy, their poisonous politics, their lethargic driver strategy.

Verstappen it is.
What gap?
Oh dear.
I'm honestly asking you a question, but based on the fact you truly believe there was a gap between max and ric in the race today it's probably not worth it
In Spain, Ricciardo was a bit faster than Verstappen, but suffered bad luck. In Monaco, Ricciardo was a faster and made no errors. In Canada, Verstappen was a bit better. In Baku, Verstappen was on the same pace as Ricciardo, in Austria Verstappen was much faster, and in Britain Verstappen was again convincingly faster, having also made up his qualifying deficit. Race by race, Verstappen has narrowed, and eventually passed Ricciardo in qualifying, and race by race, he has equalled and surpassed Ricciardo in the race. Hence, he has narrowed and then created a gap.

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Andy2402 »

I respect your opinion

If he out qualifies and then out performs ric over the next 2 race weekends I think I would then agree he has opened a "gap" in terms of performance

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

mikeyg123 wrote:Whats wrong with Verstappen?
That is the problem with everyone else, he has very few, if any. He has made his share of dumb rookie mistakes (and probably will do a few more) but seems to be learning very well. He is very quick, has very good racecraft, and judging by his appearance and results, working very hard behind the scenes to continually improve. For a young man with a light body frame, he already has a neck size more akin to Brock Lesnar, indicating he is spending the required time in physical training.

He is willing to take risks, but they are calculating and usually work out to his advantage.

Compared to just one year ago, Red Bull, and more specifically Renault, have improved tremendously. And they did it under the stifling token system.

Vettel currently holds the title for youngest champion, at 23 years and 134 days. Verstappen has the opportunity to smash that to little pieces.

Max at 17
Image
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/By_yeTgCIAAZEvq.jpg:medium

Two years later
Image
http://en.espnf1.com/PICTURES/CMS/31000/31075.9.jpg

Just look at the difference in neck size, indicating he is spending a lot of time behind the scenes in hard training.
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Randine »

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Andy2402 wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Andy2402 wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:I agree with the miffed Aussie OP.

Red Bull could be the team to beat next year, and Verstappen is only increasing the gap to Ricciardo, and Ferrari seem to just have no inclination to reform their philosophy, their poisonous politics, their lethargic driver strategy.

Verstappen it is.
What gap?
Oh dear.
I'm honestly asking you a question, but based on the fact you truly believe there was a gap between max and ric in the race today it's probably not worth it
In Spain, Ricciardo was a bit faster than Verstappen, but suffered bad luck. In Monaco, Ricciardo was a faster and made no errors. In Canada, Verstappen was a bit better. In Baku, Verstappen was on the same pace as Ricciardo, in Austria Verstappen was much faster, and in Britain Verstappen was again convincingly faster, having also made up his qualifying deficit. Race by race, Verstappen has narrowed, and eventually passed Ricciardo in qualifying, and race by race, he has equalled and surpassed Ricciardo in the race. Hence, he has narrowed and then created a gap.
In Canada Ric was behind a car the whole race. Max was in clear air 95% of the race.
We have no idea if he would have been better than Max that day but I believe he would have been.
In Austria I agree, but it could have been a small set up difference.
In Britain Ric was out qualified by Vettel and Kvyat in 2014 and 2015.
So to say that Max beat him in qualifying once where he was beaten by other team mates, means he is now faster is a bit silly.
And in the race today he lost our due to an unlucky pit call.
Dan the man!


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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by painless »

Don't forget all the Clearasil money!

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by IDrinkYourMilkshake »

Andy2402 wrote:I respect your opinion

If he out qualifies and then out performs ric over the next 2 race weekends I think I would then agree he has opened a "gap" in terms of performance
Glad we got that cleared up. :)

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

I hope you're right. I'd like to see either of the RB boys take it next year, hopefully it doesn't turn ugly between them when the pressure is really on.

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by pokerman »

Jezza13 wrote:Open PU development, new aero regs.

As much as I hate to say it, and believe me, I do hate to say it.

Verstappen will win the 2017 WDC (Oh the pain, the pain x( ).
I was going to post something similar after today's race, he's certainly ticking all the boxes, I think 2017 WDC is a bit ambitious but he's going to be Champion sooner or later I feel.
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Blinky McSquinty
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

painless wrote:Don't forget all the Clearasil money!
Not lost in the glare. At 18 he's relatively a kid in a big man's sandbox. When he matures and develops, we fans have something to look forward to. His career path is similar to Vettel. But unlike Vettel, Verstappen has already proven to all he can pass and mix it up in traffic. So he's barely drinking age, yet has checked off most of the boxes.

Quick ... check
Good qualifying speed ... check
Good race pace ... check
Can defend ... check
Can pass ... check
Is competent in traffic and mid-pack ... check
Makes fewer and fewer mistakes as time goes by ... check
Aggressive ... check
Has a smoking hot girlfriend ... check
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Fiki »

Blinky McSquinty wrote:So he's barely drinking age, yet has checked off most of the boxes.
If you mean beer, he has been allowed to drink for more than two years in his native Belgium! Obviously I don't know whether there's a link with his performance at the wheel. :D
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by sandman1347 »

One thing that I will call right now is that both Red Bull and...drum roll please...McLaren will pass Ferrari next year in performance. I think Ferrari are gonna get it wrong with the new regs. Just a hunch but I don't see them taking advantage here. Red Bull, on the other hand are a lock to take advantage of the heightened aero performance and I have to think that the pedigree, the budget and the resources at McLaren are focusing 100% on next year's car already.

Honda's engine has made significant improvements and I believe next year is the time when they finally move beyond laughing stock status and produce a respectable PU that is competitive. The Mclaren call is a long shot but I do feel conficent that Red Bull will be right up there.

The wild card is Mercedes themselves. Can they maintain their dominance even through a radical change in regulations? Will they be knocked off the perch by quicker rivals or will we actually get a scenario in which multiple teams are closely matched? Personally I think these rules changes might be a mistake. They will make overtaking harder than ever and there is simply nothing to be gained by making the cars faster. If you've noticed; they are already mindbogglingly fast and are starting to break the old V10 lap records! With stable regs, these cars would be faster than any F1 car before them by next season. These new regs will bring the lap times into a very scary realm; one no racing driver has experienced yet.

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by mikeyg123 »

Fiki wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:So he's barely drinking age, yet has checked off most of the boxes.
If you mean beer, he has been allowed to drink for more than two years in his native Belgium! Obviously I don't know whether there's a link with his performance at the wheel. :D
Isn't he Dutch?

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Covalent
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Covalent »

Yes I too called it in another thread.

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Knuppel1983 »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:So he's barely drinking age, yet has checked off most of the boxes.
If you mean beer, he has been allowed to drink for more than two years in his native Belgium! Obviously I don't know whether there's a link with his performance at the wheel. :D
Isn't he Dutch?
He has a double nationality, but choses to drive under a Dutch flag.

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Bacus »

Randine wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Andy2402 wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Andy2402 wrote:
What gap?
Oh dear.
I'm honestly asking you a question, but based on the fact you truly believe there was a gap between max and ric in the race today it's probably not worth it
In Spain, Ricciardo was a bit faster than Verstappen, but suffered bad luck. In Monaco, Ricciardo was a faster and made no errors. In Canada, Verstappen was a bit better. In Baku, Verstappen was on the same pace as Ricciardo, in Austria Verstappen was much faster, and in Britain Verstappen was again convincingly faster, having also made up his qualifying deficit. Race by race, Verstappen has narrowed, and eventually passed Ricciardo in qualifying, and race by race, he has equalled and surpassed Ricciardo in the race. Hence, he has narrowed and then created a gap.
In Canada Ric was behind a car the whole race. Max was in clear air 95% of the race.
We have no idea if he would have been better than Max that day but I believe he would have been.
In Austria I agree, but it could have been a small set up difference.
In Britain Ric was out qualified by Vettel and Kvyat in 2014 and 2015.
So to say that Max beat him in qualifying once where he was beaten by other team mates, means he is now faster is a bit silly.
And in the race today he lost our due to an unlucky pit call.
I would actually say he was already faster from Spain (of course if we're talking about race pace), first stint all the time around 1,5 seconds trailing Ricciardo (we know the huge air turbulence at Spain), and in 2nd stint he came from about 4 seconds behind Ric right in the DRS zone. Check out the lap by lap chart. The win was a bit fortunate but that wouldn't be possible without that solid pace.

In Canada we don't know for sure...but Ric still had at times some time in clear air and he was not faster than Max. Ric also made some critical mistake (mistakes).

About Baku nothing? In Baku Ves came from quite far behind, in the latter part of the race taking Ric massive chunk of time, and he cleared faster the cars that they were passing, in the end finishing behind Ric 1 second or so, a couple of more laps and Max would overtake him.

In Austria, passes him ON TRACK, then pulls away, he even pushes Rosberg!, and could be just a 'small set up difference'. So when he's clearly faster it must be something with the setup.

In Britain there wasn't any stage where Ric looked like at list was matching Ves. First stint while Ves was 'busy' behind Ros, Ric wasn't event closing on them. 2nd stint while Ves overtook a MERCEDES and setting fastest laps, Ric wasn't even pressing Perez, never mind setting at list one fastest lap.
Very easy to put it 'well he was bad anyway at this track, other teammates beat him here'. It is an icon, classical track, complex, technical. I think it says a lot. The last race someone was saying 'well lets see him at tracks that suit more RedBull, other than these with so much emphasis on engine etc' - well there you go.

So he is getting faster, not only because now he outqualified Ric, but you can see it in every practice session, now and last races, he's always around Ric or faster, which didn't happen in the very first races together.

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by jimmyj »

I'm a big Max fan already. And it's great to see how many of us are very interested in him! Fantastic stuff.

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mikey
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by mikey »

Not sure about 2017 but I think Red Bull will be challenging but I still think Merc have another year in them.
Max no doubt is a future champion.

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Randine
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Randine »

Re Bacus:

Ric had track position in Spain. He could dictate pace from the front.
In an interview with Max the following week about when he got into the lead, he said I decided to play with Kimi and back up as I knew that he couldn't overtake me if I nailed the last corner.
Now don't you think Ric was doing that too? He was playing the long game too that day.
I am sure in clear air Kimi would have sailed off into the distance, however he was stuck behind Max, just like Max was stuck behind Ric.

In Baku, all the drivers in front of Ric did 1 pit stop, Red Bull couldn't make the tyres last and had to do 2. Ric was fighting hard with Hulk for a long while (10 or more laps) at the end of the race which is why Max was able to close up. Hulk's tyres went and Ric's were shot too. Ric did Max a favour by racing Hulk hard as he was able to get past Hulk very easily.
Remembering that day Perez in a Force India beat Kimi to take 3rd place, so a Red Bull fighting a Force India (which are clearly quicker in straight line speed) that day I thought Ric would not be able to get past.

In Austria, Ric lost 4 places in the first 5-8 laps. It wasn't just Max that drove around him like he was standing still, also Rosberg, Vettel etc. No amazing feat that Max did it too. And a set up difference could explain that if his tyres weren't up to temp.
I don't have any idea what the difference was but at times Max was up to half a second quicker that day per lap on a 70 second (very short lap). That is a big margin when he has never been that much faster before or since. Another factor which may or may not be a difference is that Ric's engine is 1 race older.

In Britain, Ric lost out massively by pitting just one lap behind Ham, Rosberg and Max when he was a second back. When he came out behind Perez, Perez is a very handy driver and he even lost out to him going into the next pit stop for dry tyres. Ric was clearly quicker in dry tyres, but the problem then was that the dry line was the only dry part of the track.
If you wanted to overtake, you had to go to the wet to get it done. He waited a few laps and then got the job done. By that stage he was already a huge chunk of time behind which he actually did manage to knock off 3-4 seconds.
Max almost lost it going past a back marker at one stage that is how slippery it was off line. When Max went past Rosberg, it was Rosberg that made a mistake and he went wide into the damp, then Max was able to mostly drive on dry track to get the job done. Yes it was impressive, but brought about by a Rosberg error.
Max had 2 massive offs at turn 1, and very lucky to not be punished for it. He was in good company going off as Ham, Vettel and Alonso all had big offs too.

So while you read it one way, I see it another.
Max is very impressive but he has also been lucky.
Ric has all the luck of Webber right now:
= spain - bad strategy
Monaco - best on track but lost out on bad 10+ second pit stop
Canada - had to back off to avoid Rosberg re-entering the track on lap 1 and lost his position to Max. Didn't have any clear air the rest of the race.
Baku - got beat by better strategy by the guys in front, 1 stop vs 2 stop.
Austria - not quick that day
England - pitted 1 lap before the virtual safety car.
Dan the man!


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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by WHoff78 »

Feels premature to right one of the big teams of before a big rule change, especially in terms of so aero packages. Everyone remembers what Mercedes did in 2014. The sensible choice right now is to focus on the engine this season with a view to the token restrictions ending and next year's chasis. Ferrari are dropping off to much. I reckon they are already focused on 2017 already, as most probably are Renault. Big engine changes from Renault over the winter break may hinder red Bull to. We shall see though. Red Bull will clearly be right up there if Renault are forthcoming with their development plans, but if that have ambitions themselves they will keep their cards close to their chest.

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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by ReservoirDog »

sandman1347 wrote:One thing that I will call right now is that both Red Bull and...drum roll please...McLaren will pass Ferrari next year in performance. I think Ferrari are gonna get it wrong with the new regs. Just a hunch but I don't see them taking advantage here. Red Bull, on the other hand are a lock to take advantage of the heightened aero performance and I have to think that the pedigree, the budget and the resources at McLaren are focusing 100% on next year's car already.

Honda's engine has made significant improvements and I believe next year is the time when they finally move beyond laughing stock status and produce a respectable PU that is competitive. The Mclaren call is a long shot but I do feel conficent that Red Bull will be right up there.

The wild card is Mercedes themselves. Can they maintain their dominance even through a radical change in regulations? Will they be knocked off the perch by quicker rivals or will we actually get a scenario in which multiple teams are closely matched? Personally I think these rules changes might be a mistake. They will make overtaking harder than ever and there is simply nothing to be gained by making the cars faster. If you've noticed; they are already mindbogglingly fast and are starting to break the old V10 lap records! With stable regs, these cars would be faster than any F1 car before them by next season. These new regs will bring the lap times into a very scary realm; one no racing driver has experienced yet.

Good thing is, we can get a little insight into 2017 McLaren from Button's decision. If he chooses to leave that means he's not convinced by either McLaren or Honda's plans. If he, despite offers, stays, we can somehow make an educated guess that he thinks it's the place to be (compared to Williams).

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Exediron
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Exediron »

mikeyg123 wrote:Whats wrong with Verstappen?
His fans.
PICK 10 COMPETITION (6 wins, 18 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017 & 2019
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion

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Maranello1
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by Maranello1 »

Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Whats wrong with Verstappen?
His fans.
Did they boo his partner at the podium? Usually that's a sign of poor fandom.

trento
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Re: I'm calling it now.

Post by trento »

How come Max is so much faster than his dad ever was?

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