planetf1.com

So, with the Euro going on and the European Grand Prix happening, it reminded me of the last time the Euro coincided with the European Grand Prix : 2012.

So, I went to watch it again.

My oh my, Fernando's drive was astonishing. We all know he has the speed, the talent, but the sheer hustle and raw overtaking skill he showed! I think there were FIVE overtakes around the OUTSIDE, including two on the safety car restart, missing Webber's rear wheel by millimeters in heavy braking on going around the outside, and then an absolute gem around the outside of Grosjean. He truly is the undisputed king of Outside Overtaking.

I cannot yet accurately say where Fernando stands in terms of outright speed compared to Hamilton and Vettel (although I believe he is faster), but in terms of racecraft, dogged determination, raw, jaw dropping overtaking skill, and sheer hustle, I haven't ever seen a better drive.

What are the drives that made your jaw drop, and why? I'm looking to watch the suggestions posted here.

There is only one answer in a thread like this: Ayrton Senna, 1993 Donington Park.

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:So, with the Euro going on and the European Grand Prix happening, it reminded me of the last time the Euro coincided with the European Grand Prix : 2012.

So, I went to watch it again.

My oh my, Fernando's drive was astonishing. We all know he has the speed, the talent, but the sheer hustle and raw overtaking skill he showed! I think there were FIVE overtakes around the OUTSIDE, including two on the safety car restart, missing Webber's rear wheel by millimeters in heavy braking on going around the outside, and then an absolute gem around the outside of Grosjean. He truly is the undisputed king of Outside Overtaking.

I cannot yet accurately say where Fernando stands in terms of outright speed compared to Hamilton and Vettel (although I believe he is faster), but in terms of racecraft, dogged determination, raw, jaw dropping overtaking skill, and sheer hustle, I haven't ever seen a better drive.

What are the drives that made your jaw drop, and why? I'm looking to watch the suggestions posted here.

I thinks he lacks a little bit in outright speed compared to Lewis and Vettel but he makes up for it in wheel to wheel racing.

Honestly, the biggest Hustle is probably the wages Kimi Raikkonen has managed to demand during his F1 career. In terms of talent vs pay - I think he is F1 biggest ever winner. Even before you consider that he was paid by Ferrari to not drive in 2010.
Any ideas who could take that title from him?

How about Button's effort at the 2011 Canadian Grand Prix...


**

I have to assume, especially given how good Vettel and Hamilton are, that it's unlikely that Alonso is superior in every category than them during the race. But who knows.

lamo wrote:Honestly, the biggest Hustle is probably the wages Kimi Raikkonen has managed to demand during his F1 career. In terms of talent vs pay - I think he is F1 biggest ever winner. Even before you consider that he was paid by Ferrari to not drive in 2010.
Any ideas who could take that title from him?

I was going to say something similar - Bernie getting himself the lifetime rights to F1 for less than a single season's revenue - but you beat me to the joke. Fair play!

As for the actual intention of the post... I've seen a few noteworthy ones, but nothing will ever come close to one for which - while I wasn't alive for it - a video luckily exists: Juan Manuel Fangio's incredible performance at the Nurburgring in 1957, which I think is by a clear way still the greatest hustle in F1 history. You can see a video of it here, although of course - considering the era - it isn't the full race.

I've intentionally brought forward a drive from before my time, because I think the culture that has developed among F1 fans of speaking only of drivers you've seen with your own eyes will inevitably lead to the loss of some of F1's finest heritage if it continues. We're lucky to have any race footage from Fangio's era, but you need only watch him drive alongside the others for a few corners to really appreciate what an all-time great he was.

2005 Japanese GP. Hopefully you don't remember the result, so you can just watch it and enjoy it as though it's fresh. I'll say one thing though: Alonso on Schumacher at 130R.

Vettel in Abu Dahbi, 2012. Championship on the line, starting from the pitlane, and that pass on Button around the outside.

In recent years Hamilton has had some great ones back in 2009 in Australia and Brazil or in 2010 in China after the rain came down. Button in Canada 2011 was great as was Webber in China 2011.

Going back a bit Senna had that great first lap at Donnington in 93' and I'll always remember his drive in Japan in 88' to win the title after stalling on the grid. Michael Schumacher's drive at Spa in 95' or that 5-stopper in France in 04' were both great. Nigel had some great ones too but I need to go look up the dates.

A most unheralded drive in my eyes was Michael in Malaysia in 2001.

He was leading & there was a sudden deluge on, I think, lap 3.
He flew off into the gravel trap & his team mate Rubens & half the field got by him.
He then had to queue behind Rubens in the pits for near 2 minutes when they both stopped for wets.

He then caught & passed Rubens, who is no slouch in the wet, & pulled about a minute on him as he passed the rest of the field & won the race.

Apart from that, JMF at the Nordschleife in 1957.

It had to read the OP a few times before I understood what was meant by the Euro... Are there really people watching that?
I just looked up 'hustle' and am glad to find out the word came from my language. Not bad at all!

Jaw dropping... How about Marcus Winkelhock at the European Grand Prix 2007? There was also a scene in that race that I found rather descriptive of F1 as a whole at times. It involved outside assistance to get back in the race in a very elaborate way, which was later turned into a rather comic nickname.

Colo134 wrote:Vettel in Abu Dahbi, 2012. Championship on the line, starting from the pitlane, and that pass on Button around the outside.

As a Vettel fan, it pained me to see that drive. He had scrappy overtaking, got lucky with the safety cars, crashed in the metre-markers for God's sake during a safety car period. He just isn't the best at overtaking. It's almost always scrappy, with contact. It pains me as a Vettel fan, because he is lightning quick, great in the wet, but there literally is no victory drive of his that is enjoyable. It's so one dimensional. Start from the front or get there in a few laps, and then win. No racing.

Wait, wait, WAIT! There is one GREAT Vettel win. 2013 Suzuka! Stopping more than Grosjean, he had to overtake him on track late in the race, got in done in a few laps, great win. Webber, supposedly a great ballsy racer, couldn't overtake Grosjean for over ten laps despite having even fresher tyres.
Phew, he does have one "hustling" race.

Exediron wrote:

lamo wrote:Honestly, the biggest Hustle is probably the wages Kimi Raikkonen has managed to demand during his F1 career. In terms of talent vs pay - I think he is F1 biggest ever winner. Even before you consider that he was paid by Ferrari to not drive in 2010.
Any ideas who could take that title from him?

I was going to say something similar - Bernie getting himself the lifetime rights to F1 for less than a single season's revenue - but you beat me to the joke. Fair play!

As for the actual intention of the post... I've seen a few noteworthy ones, but nothing will ever come close to one for which - while I wasn't alive for it - a video luckily exists: Juan Manuel Fangio's incredible performance at the Nurburgring in 1957, which I think is by a clear way still the greatest hustle in F1 history. You can see a video of it here, although of course - considering the era - it isn't the full race.

I've intentionally brought forward a drive from before my time, because I think the culture that has developed among F1 fans of speaking only of drivers you've seen with your own eyes will inevitably lead to the loss of some of F1's finest heritage if it continues. We're lucky to have any race footage from Fangio's era, but you need only watch him drive alongside the others for a few corners to really appreciate what an all-time great he was.

Now that's what I'm talking about! I've heard of that win many times, now you've reminded and convinced me to watch it. Thanks!

Llotyhy wrote:There is only one answer in a thread like this: Ayrton Senna, 1993 Donington Park.

Even Senna didn't rate that win very highly, and everyone seems to overlook that. As great as Senna was, he had one special thing this race that others didn't, that created the "magic" in the wet. He had Traction Control.

Oh, he is a rain master, but this wasn't his finest. Not even close.

Invade wrote:2005 Japanese GP. Hopefully you don't remember the result, so you can just watch it and enjoy it as though it's fresh. I'll say one thing though: Alonso on Schumacher at 130R.

Funny, this was a time when I thought Fernando was a consistnt, slower driver (so funny in hindsight) while Raikkonen was a faster driver. Yet in this race, it was Fernando's driving that really impressed me, more than Raikkonen.

Fiki wrote:It had to read the OP a few times before I understood what was meant by the Euro... Are there really people watching that?
I just looked up 'hustle' and am glad to find out the word came from my language. Not bad at all!

Jaw dropping... How about Marcus Winkelhock at the European Grand Prix 2007? There was also a scene in that race that I found rather descriptive of F1 as a whole at times. It involved outside assistance to get back in the race in a very elaborate way, which was later turned into a rather comic nickname.

The confusion is mutual.. I had no idea what you were on about. What was the nickname for getting outside assistance? "Doing a Hamilton"? I am honestly not sure.

I think the term "hustle'' is from American English. Now that the British have left us, we are free to follow other English dialects. I've been watching too much of "Shark Tank" I guess.

Imola 2003 and Michael Schumacher

On the week before the race Michael and Ralf Schumacher's mother suffered a fall and she was suffering critical injuries. Both brothers flew back to Cologne to be at her bedside. A few hours after they left her bedside, she passed away. The next day they ran the race. Michael won, and his face on the podium told all. With a grief so profound it was understandable if he just parked his car. But he raced, no doubt to honor his mother and find solace in the cockpit of a racing car.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CRTPKtXWcAAWFBD.jpg

Webber on Alonso in Spa 2011 was fantastic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xq4JyrsV4I

The mention of Senna's traction-control assisted Donington drive reminded me of another great hustle.

Fernando Alonso in Hungary, 2006! No extra benefits like Senna had in Donington, and he overtook everyone on track and then annihilated them. Ironically, Fernando often inherits wins from others by being well placed, so maybe to balance out the karma, he lost his most storming win.

Alonso has the best racecraft I've seen from any driver in history. His skill at wheel to wheel racing is unrivalled. He is so clean, yet so effective.

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:

Fiki wrote:It had to read the OP a few times before I understood what was meant by the Euro... Are there really people watching that?
I just looked up 'hustle' and am glad to find out the word came from my language. Not bad at all!

Jaw dropping... How about Marcus Winkelhock at the European Grand Prix 2007? There was also a scene in that race that I found rather descriptive of F1 as a whole at times. It involved outside assistance to get back in the race in a very elaborate way, which was later turned into a rather comic nickname.

The confusion is mutual.. I had no idea what you were on about. What was the nickname for getting outside assistance? "Doing a Hamilton"? I am honestly not sure.

I think the term "hustle'' is from American English. Now that the British have left us, we are free to follow other English dialects. I've been watching too much of "Shark Tank" I guess.

For a time after the European GP 2007, Hamilton was known as "craneboy", especially in discussions with Hamilton fans. As outside assistance goes, that took the biscuit!

You may be right, perhaps hustle did get into English via America. Like Santa Claus!

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:

Llotyhy wrote:There is only one answer in a thread like this: Ayrton Senna, 1993 Donington Park.

Even Senna didn't rate that win very highly, and everyone seems to overlook that. As great as Senna was, he had one special thing this race that others didn't, that created the "magic" in the wet. He had Traction Control.

Oh, he is a rain master, but this wasn't his finest. Not even close.

Senna himself didn't understand why so many fans thought it his best race; he rightly considered Portugal 1985 much better.

I suppose honourable mention must go to John Watson
He won the US GP at Detroit from 17th on the grid in 1982 & won the following year at Long Beach from 22nd on the grid.

I imagine that must have taken quite a bit of hustle.

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:

Llotyhy wrote:There is only one answer in a thread like this: Ayrton Senna, 1993 Donington Park.

Even Senna didn't rate that win very highly, and everyone seems to overlook that. As great as Senna was, he had one special thing this race that others didn't, that created the "magic" in the wet. He had Traction Control.

Didn't Williams have TC fitted as well ?

Jezza13 wrote:

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:

Llotyhy wrote:There is only one answer in a thread like this: Ayrton Senna, 1993 Donington Park.

Even Senna didn't rate that win very highly, and everyone seems to overlook that. As great as Senna was, he had one special thing this race that others didn't, that created the "magic" in the wet. He had Traction Control.

Didn't Williams have TC fitted as well ?

Of course they had. From memory, the only top team not to have it operational yet, was Benetton. Theirs came in at Monaco.

Jezza13 wrote:

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:

Llotyhy wrote:There is only one answer in a thread like this: Ayrton Senna, 1993 Donington Park.

Even Senna didn't rate that win very highly, and everyone seems to overlook that. As great as Senna was, he had one special thing this race that others didn't, that created the "magic" in the wet. He had Traction Control.

Didn't Williams have TC fitted as well ?

Yes they did but just as important both Williams & Macca had active suspension.

As a JB fan it pains me to write off the 2011 Canadian GP, fantastic though it was. His first half was pretty awful (though in the contact of 'hustle' he pretty much fooled everyone in that respect!).

I've read some great nominations above but would like to propose Nigel Mansell, Hngary 1989. Starting from 12th on the grid on a tight circuit where it's difficult to overtake, he made his way through the field before pulling an instinctive move on Senna for the lead.

Monaco 1970

Jochen Rindt qualified 8th in the now outdated Lotus 49, running 5th for much of the race accident damage and mechanical failure saw him inherit 2nd place, 15s behnd leader Jack Brabham, the ensuing chase has been described as the greatest ever by any driver.

In 9 laps, Rindt broke the lap record 8 times, finally by more than 1s. His fastest lap was more than 2s faster than he managed in qualification and 1s faster than pole position.

Still Brabham would have won if he'd not misjudged his braking distance in the last corner of the last lap with Rindt looming in his mirrors, he locked up and slid into the barrier allowing Rindt through to record his greatest, and arguably the greatest, victory of all time.

F1 Reader wrote:Scenting a whiff of victory, Rindt then proceeded to reel in the race leader by means of a thrilling, even frightening, charge that mesmerized all who saw it, including Brabham himself. Faster and faster Rindt went, smashing the lap record to smithereens. For the veteran Brabham, the sight of the wildly careening Lotus looming ever closer in his mirrors proved such a distraction that on the last corner of the last lap he crashed into the barriers.

Watch the last lap here

Silverstone 1987?

Piquet takes off in the Williams after passing a quick-starting Prost. Mansell follows his team-mate but, complaining of vibration, is eventually called in to change tyres. Sets off after Piquet with 28 laps to close a 30-second deficit (or was it 30 laps / 28 seconds?). Continuously lowers the lap record in doing so before selling Piquet a dummy for the lead. Runs out of fuel on the slow-down lap, for good measure!

KingVoid wrote:Alonso has the best racecraft I've seen from any driver in history. His skill at wheel to wheel racing is unrivalled. He is so clean, yet so effective.

tootsie323 wrote:Silverstone 1987?

Piquet takes off in the Williams after passing a quick-starting Prost. Mansell follows his team-mate but, complaining of vibration, is eventually called in to change tyres. Sets off after Piquet with 28 laps to close a 30-second deficit (or was it 30 laps / 28 seconds?). Continuously lowers the lap record in doing so before selling Piquet a dummy for the lead. Runs out of fuel on the slow-down lap, for good measure!

This is what got me completely hooked on Formula One. It was the first Grand Prix I had been to watch and I was stood at Stowe corner for the whole race.

Will always remember the crowd going wild and drowning out the noise of the two Williams cars as they went past with Mansell finally in the lead!

Can't believe that was 29 years ago!!! Jeez I'm getting old

Lucky enough to see two: Stewart at Kyalami in 1973 when he charged from back and won; Prost at Kyalami in 1982 when he pitted to change a punctured tyre, got new tyres and charged back to win. Of course much of his speed was due to the new tyres, but not all; Prost was really impressive. This gave Murray the idea of pitting for new tyres which (pitting) had not been the case then.

Clark at Monza 1967 when he charged back through the field. Riakkonen, as mentioned above, at Japan in 2005 was a great hustle too.

ob1kenobi.23 wrote:I suppose honourable mention must go to John Watson
He won the US GP at Detroit from 17th on the grid in 1982 & won the following year at Long Beach from 22nd on the grid.

I imagine that must have taken quite a bit of hustle.

Good reminder: those two races by Watson must rank up with the best of all: even Lauda his team-mate said it was incredible how John just passed him and the rest to win. If that had been one of the greats like Fangio or Senna those two races would be spoken about non-stop.

Does my sig count as hustle. As first lap hustles go anyway it must have been pretty epic.

POBRatings wrote:

ob1kenobi.23 wrote:I suppose honourable mention must go to John Watson
He won the US GP at Detroit from 17th on the grid in 1982 & won the following year at Long Beach from 22nd on the grid.

I imagine that must have taken quite a bit of hustle.

Good reminder: those two races by Watson must rank up with the best of all: even Lauda his team-mate said it was incredible how John just passed him and the rest to win. If that had been one of the greats like Fangio or Senna those two races would be spoken about non-stop.

What do your stats say about Watson and Lauda's relative speed in 82/83? From my perspective it looked like Watson was at least equal to Lauda but nobody ever talks about it!n

Some great suggestions in this thread, thanks to everyone. I will do my best to watch those races.

Another one I can remember from my time watching F1 is China 2011. The tyre strategies played a big part, but Hamilton was excellent that day, overtaking a lot, leaving Button far behind, and eventually taking Vettel with a few laps to spare. It was such a fantastic and exciting start for Pirelli too.

Llotyhy wrote:There is only one answer in a thread like this: Ayrton Senna, 1993 Donington Park.

There is only on, very, very definitive answer to this, since it's given by the man himself:

" People later said that my win in the wet at Donington in ’93 was my greatest performance. No way! I had traction control OK, I didn’t make any real mistakes, but the car was so much easier to drive. It was a good win, sure, but compared with Estoril ’85 it was nothing, really. "

— Ayrton Senna

http://www.ayrton-senna-dasilva.com/portugal-1985/

Ultimate Hustle in recent memory would have to go to Rubens Barrichello at Silverstone 2008! His team cost him a sure 2nd place and possibly the win when they made a refueling mistake on his earlier pit stop. Rubens was brilliant that day, as well as on a few other occasions.

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:I cannot yet accurately say where Fernando stands in terms of outright speed compared to Hamilton and Vettel (although I believe he is faster), but in terms of racecraft, dogged determination, raw, jaw dropping overtaking skill, and sheer hustle, I haven't ever seen a better drive.

Fernando has proven several times that in a top car he is as fast as anyone and has the race craft to maximize his efforts. However, in slower cars, while still showcasing his talents, he has found it perhaps more difficult to pass others or stay in front. Certainly we cannot count the abysmal McLaren of 2015 & 2016 against him as it is simply too poor a car for anyone to overcome the deficit with their skills when the drivetrain holds together.

And while I feel he, along with Hamilton are the most adaptable drivers since Michael, he is possibly not as good on the technical side in terms of feedback and assisting the engineers in improving the weaknesses of his cars. In that aspect I find Lewis to be a tad wee bit better. And where Hamilton's advantage over Alonso is his ability to find pace in areas of track where most others cannot, Alonso's strength is his ability to maintain pace more consistently throughout complete laps for entire race distances, thereby making his efforts more overall well rounded. This is something Lewis grew to learn over the last 5 years but he still manages to find that additional speed in sections where others cannot, making him in my eyes, the best driver on the grid, with Vettel just a hair off. At the same time, Rosberg has evolved in the opposite direction. Quite consistent throughout a lap (although not always as fast as Alonso could probably go) and since 2014 has been improving his game to squeak out speed in sections where others find it difficult to do so. Rosberg has evolved into one of the top quantities in F1 and should he learn to be a bit more calculating and patient in certain situations, he will be as complete a driver in F1 as we've seen for this generation, placing himself with Alonso, Vettel, and Hamilton.

Vettel's hustle is pretty damn impressive as well. He's more like Alonso but I find a tad more on the limit and able to maintain form, though his car this year is far enough off the Mercedes he's having to push harder at times to not get stomped and has made a few errors. Even still he's doing a great job this season as is Kimi.

Special mention for hustle must go to Sergio Perez. This kid is Dynamite and getting better all the time!
McLaren should have kept him.

Invading Monza after MS won in 2000 was one hell of a hustle, but not the kind you're thinking of. I loved the experience though!

Hamilton at Turkey in the GP2 series. Nearly last to 2nd in spec cars. I know it's not F1 but still worth a watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQv5sVYdTaA