Daniel Screwed out of Two Wins on the Trot

sandman1347 · Post by **sandman1347** » Sun May 29, 2016 5:17 pm

I feel for Daniel now. His bad luck goes back to last year, where it seemed his car would fail every time he had a sniff of the podium. These last two race weekends, he has been the fastest throughout (once Lewis and Nico collided in Spain) but has been screwed by strategy twice in a row. I'm not sure what happened on that stop but it's unfathomable that the mechanics didn't have the tires ready.

I'm more convinced now than ever that Daniel is truly a top-tier driver but I just think he has been terribly unlucky. Hopefully this engine upgrade that Renault is pushing through for Canada will keep Red Bull competitive even at the faster circuits.

Lotus49 · Post by **Lotus49** » Sun May 29, 2016 5:24 pm

Couldn't agree more. He is on an unbelievable run of bad luck since last summer. He should be clear 2nd in the Title chase and with the upgraded Renault PU and a strong Red Bull with plenty of tracks left that they are strong at you couldn't have ruled him out of having a sniff at the Title.

He must have lost 30+ points this year at least through no fault of his own.

trento · Post by **trento** » Sun May 29, 2016 5:26 pm

I'm tempted to say favoritism but these things happen, like Lewis last year. Unfortunately, there aren't many races left where RB can pull off a win, maybe in Singapore and Hungary where engine power is less important.

When you're supposed to win, being 2nd is no better than being last. In fact, it probably feels worse. Hopefully, RB gets its act together for the next races.

UnlikeUday · Post by **UnlikeUday** » Sun May 29, 2016 5:37 pm

trento wrote:I'm tempted to say favoritism but these things happen, like Lewis last year. Unfortunately, there aren't many races left where RB can pull off a win, maybe in Singapore and Hungary where engine power is less important.

When you're supposed to win, being 2nd is no better than being last. In fact, it probably feels worse. Hopefully, RB gets its act together for the next races.

Apart from the pitstops, it also depends if they still continue giving preference to Max over him!

Lotus49 · Post by **Lotus49** » Sun May 29, 2016 5:46 pm

UnlikeUday wrote:
trento wrote:I'm tempted to say favoritism but these things happen, like Lewis last year. Unfortunately, there aren't many races left where RB can pull off a win, maybe in Singapore and Hungary where engine power is less important.

When you're supposed to win, being 2nd is no better than being last. In fact, it probably feels worse. Hopefully, RB gets its act together for the next races.
Apart from the pitstops, it also depends if they still continue giving preference to Max over him!

They've never done that.

sandman1347 · Post by **sandman1347** » Sun May 29, 2016 5:55 pm

Lotus49 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
trento wrote:I'm tempted to say favoritism but these things happen, like Lewis last year. Unfortunately, there aren't many races left where RB can pull off a win, maybe in Singapore and Hungary where engine power is less important.

When you're supposed to win, being 2nd is no better than being last. In fact, it probably feels worse. Hopefully, RB gets its act together for the next races.
Apart from the pitstops, it also depends if they still continue giving preference to Max over him!
They've never done that.

In all the years that Vettel was winning championships I never once saw Red Bull call a driver into the pits and not have the tires ready. They have been the best drilled and fastest pit crew in F1 for years. I'm not calling this a conspiracy but I find it amazing that they blew it in the crucial moment for Daniel. Would never have predicted that.

slide · Post by **slide** » Sun May 29, 2016 5:59 pm

it was funny today when the red bull came in and the pit crew were watching re runs of frazier in the garage totally unware

Swarth · Post by **Swarth** » Sun May 29, 2016 6:00 pm

in Spain either strategy could have worked Dani just got the one that didnt i dont think that was favourtism just bad luck but he was screwed today but not on purpose

mikey · Post by **mikey** » Sun May 29, 2016 6:12 pm

Lotus49 wrote:Couldn't agree more. He is on an unbelievable run of bad luck since last summer. He should be clear 2nd in the Title chase and with the upgraded Renault PU and a strong Red Bull with plenty of tracks left that they are strong at you couldn't have ruled him out of having a sniff at the Title.

He must have lost 30+ points this year at least through no fault of his own.

Can not really agree with that.
Because if you apply the same regarding lost points then you have to do the same for Lewis and any other driver.
If he had won in Spain it could be argued he only got that win because both Mercs where out.

davidheath461 · Post by **davidheath461** » Sun May 29, 2016 6:18 pm

sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
trento wrote:I'm tempted to say favoritism but these things happen, like Lewis last year. Unfortunately, there aren't many races left where RB can pull off a win, maybe in Singapore and Hungary where engine power is less important.

When you're supposed to win, being 2nd is no better than being last. In fact, it probably feels worse. Hopefully, RB gets its act together for the next races.
Apart from the pitstops, it also depends if they still continue giving preference to Max over him!
They've never done that.
In all the years that Vettel was winning championships I never once saw Red Bull call a driver into the pits and not have the tires ready. They have been the best drilled and fastest pit crew in F1 for years. I'm not calling this a conspiracy but I find it amazing that they blew it in the crucial moment for Daniel. Would never have predicted that.

Happened in Brazil 2012. But that was because Vettel's radio wasn't working and he decided to come into the pits without his team knowing.

pc27b · Post by **pc27b** » Sun May 29, 2016 6:23 pm

yes the pit crew for red bull screwed up today.
i never like drivers making claims like dr did today though. obviously drivers can't win without the team and drivers seem to totally forget when they "screw" the team by making mistakes

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Sun May 29, 2016 6:36 pm

Ricciardo will win many more races.

dizlexik · Post by **dizlexik** » Sun May 29, 2016 6:39 pm

Any reaction from Horner?

Prema · Post by **Prema** » Sun May 29, 2016 6:48 pm

dizlexik wrote:Any reaction from Horner?

A very disappointing day. We as a team owe Daniel a huge apology today as we failed to support him in the way we did to get him to his first pole position yesterday. The delay at his pit stop cost him the lead and despite some excellent driving to get close to Lewis, he couldn't get past, as is so often the case here in Monaco.
http://www.pitpass.com/56264/Monaco-GP- ... s-Red-Bull

dizlexik · Post by **dizlexik** » Sun May 29, 2016 7:04 pm

Prema wrote:
dizlexik wrote:Any reaction from Horner?
A very disappointing day. We as a team owe Daniel a huge apology today as we failed to support him in the way we did to get him to his first pole position yesterday. The delay at his pit stop cost him the lead and despite some excellent driving to get close to Lewis, he couldn't get past, as is so often the case here in Monaco.
http://www.pitpass.com/56264/Monaco-GP- ... s-Red-Bull

Thank you

GingerFurball · Post by **GingerFurball** » Sun May 29, 2016 7:51 pm

That's 3 races he's led this year, twice he's suffered punctures and twice he's been turnipped over by pit stops/strategy calls.

He might not have gone on to win in China but I'd have been interested in seeing what he was capable of, Rosberg wasn't exactly swarming over his rear wing before the puncture.

He got some rotten luck last year in Hungary and USA as well.

nixxxon · Post by **nixxxon** » Sun May 29, 2016 7:57 pm

Well, in Spain he had a chance to win thanks to both Mercedes crashing out. So its not all bad luck for him.

lamo · Post by **lamo** » Sun May 29, 2016 8:50 pm

Yes he has had a bad run, BUT...

In 2014 he was the best placed none Mercedes car 5 times and won 3 races. He was very lucky that the races he beat the other none Mercedes cars in were ones in which Mercedes blew the win. He was incredible lucky to win 3 races. Bottas, Massa and Vettel all were best none Mercedes 3-5 times each and 14 times combined and they never won a single race between them.

davidheath461 · Post by **davidheath461** » Sun May 29, 2016 9:16 pm

pc27b wrote:yes the pit crew for red bull screwed up today.
i never like drivers making claims like dr did today though. obviously drivers can't win without the team and drivers seem to totally forget when they "screw" the team by making mistakes

well said.

Imagine if Hamilton or Alonso had claimed that they were screwed by their team. The uproar on here would be monumental.

sandman1347 · Post by **sandman1347** » Sun May 29, 2016 9:21 pm

lamo wrote:Yes he has had a bad run, BUT...

In 2014 he was the best placed none Mercedes car 5 times and won 3 races. He was very lucky that the races he beat the other none Mercedes cars in were ones in which Mercedes blew the win. He was incredible lucky to win 3 races. Bottas, Massa and Vettel all were best none Mercedes 3-5 times each and 14 times combined and they never won a single race between them.

This is true and it must be considered in order to have a balanced view. He really was in the right place at the right time quite often that year.

Daniel reminds me of Hamilton. Lightning fast and super-aggressive and now with the rotten luck to boot!

Mr-E · Post by **Mr-E** » Sun May 29, 2016 9:28 pm

davidheath461 wrote:
pc27b wrote:yes the pit crew for red bull screwed up today.
i never like drivers making claims like dr did today though. obviously drivers can't win without the team and drivers seem to totally forget when they "screw" the team by making mistakes
well said.

Imagine if Hamilton or Alonso had claimed that they were screwed by their team. The uproar on here would be monumental.

You mean like Lewis basically did?

scouseknight · Post by **scouseknight** » Sun May 29, 2016 10:01 pm

Gutted for him - not only did the rain negate his tyre advantage after qualifying on the super softs giving him a stronger tyre to begin the race on, the pit stop then the chain of virtual safety cars hamstringed him as well.

In spite of all of that, he was all over Hamilton towards the end of the race.

He has become one of the top drivers in F1.

iano · Post by **iano** » Sun May 29, 2016 10:25 pm

The real challenge is for him to get over it, reconcile with the team and stay on the pace.

KingVoid · Post by **KingVoid** » Mon May 30, 2016 12:13 am

Danny Ric will win races this season for sure. He's such an entertaining to watch yet terrifyingly fast driver.

On the podium today, Lewis said that Ricciardo is one of the best drivers he's ever raced against. Alonso has also said something of similar lines. They know just how good he is, in this turbo era and on these Pirelli tyres he is a monster.

Remmirath · Post by **Remmirath** » Mon May 30, 2016 12:26 am

Yeah, it's definitely been a run of bad luck for Ricciardo. That pit stop was truly awful, I'd say on much the same level as that Williams incident last year where they fitted mis-matched tyres to Bottas' car -- the sort of error that really shouldn't happen at all, much less to a top team. In contrast to Red Bull's usual swift pit stops, it stood out particularly much, but they did seem slightly sluggish across the board this race. I still think that Spain was just an honest misread of the best strategy, which while unlucky, doesn't strike me as equally out there in terms of poor luck. The tyre puncture in China was also unfortunate and no doubt frustrating, but I don't think Red Bull had the pace at that time or on that track to achieve a win regardless.

As for drivers voicing their frustration about such things, I don't mind it unless it goes over the line. I don't feel that Ricciardo did, and I'd not have had a problem with any driver saying something similar under those circumstances. That must be quite difficult to deal with to begin with, and they can't just say nothing after the race if they're on the podium; if anything, I think he showed a fair amount of restraint in not saying more, and appeared to have mellowed out and moderated somewhat by the time of the press conference. Reconciliation may be difficult, but it would've been difficult if nothing was said. I don't think he really did much other than state the obvious, and the obvious would've been there rather or not attention was called to it.

Badgeronimous · Post by **Badgeronimous** » Mon May 30, 2016 12:35 am

Tbh..... I think Ricciardo has been best on the grid so far this year.

sandman1347 · Post by **sandman1347** » Mon May 30, 2016 12:49 am

Badgeronimous wrote:Tbh..... I think Ricciardo has been best on the grid so far this year.

Totally agree. Dan is driver of the year for me too.

da4an1qu1 · Post by **da4an1qu1** » Mon May 30, 2016 12:51 am

Big Ricciardo fan (aussie, so figures). But he really has to be careful. I know there are only so many ways to express frustration, but I thought his comments were rude and disrespectful to the team as a whole. We all know he's a nice guy, and gets some latitude as a consequence. But the team have been very supportive of Daniel, and allowed the now indisputable talent to shine through.

And also, I know we probably have some younger posters here, or just varying maturity levels. But I expect that like me, most readers are thinking these conspiracy theory's are ridiculous. There's been no favouritism at Red Bull since Webber. Not that I believe there was when Webber was driving there, but I can accept that there was enough circumstantial evidence for some to be convinced. To me, Webber was at times unlucky, and unfortunately at times, just a shade not good enough to be top dog.

v@sh · Post by **v@sh** » Mon May 30, 2016 12:51 am

Remmirath wrote:Yeah, it's definitely been a run of bad luck for Ricciardo. That pit stop was truly awful, I'd say on much the same level as that Williams incident last year where they fitted mis-matched tyres to Bottas' car -- the sort of error that really shouldn't happen at all, much less to a top team. In contrast to Red Bull's usual swift pit stops, it stood out particularly much, but they did seem slightly sluggish across the board this race. I still think that Spain was just an honest misread of the best strategy, which while unlucky, doesn't strike me as equally out there in terms of poor luck. The tyre puncture in China was also unfortunate and no doubt frustrating, but I don't think Red Bull had the pace at that time or on that track to achieve a win regardless.

Red Bull didn't have the pace to win but Ricciardo had the pace to be second. If you look at all the dropped points by Ricciardo through no fault of his own, he would be second in the championship only 20 odd points behind and with the Renault PU improving, he has a slim hope of the title.

What I don't understand is how the strategists do not take into account that track position is king at both Barcelona and Monaco. Barcelona was a misread but it was silly misread because most of the front runners were doing a two stopper (even RBR were initially). They've seen the Mercs pounding around Barcelona on the mediums during testing so they've got all the data there from other teams as well. Monaco was just as silly because it was dumb overreaction to change to the SS tires just because Hamilton put on the US, track position is king there. No way Hamilton would have managed to overtake and Ricciardo would have clean air for a long time.

Poor strategy and team operations. Ricciardo has been sublimed this whole season, let alone just this race and the results aren't showing as well as they could be unfortunately.

specdecible · Post by **specdecible** » Mon May 30, 2016 12:52 am

sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
trento wrote:I'm tempted to say favoritism but these things happen, like Lewis last year. Unfortunately, there aren't many races left where RB can pull off a win, maybe in Singapore and Hungary where engine power is less important.

When you're supposed to win, being 2nd is no better than being last. In fact, it probably feels worse. Hopefully, RB gets its act together for the next races.
Apart from the pitstops, it also depends if they still continue giving preference to Max over him!
They've never done that.
In all the years that Vettel was winning championships I never once saw Red Bull call a driver into the pits and not have the tires ready. They have been the best drilled and fastest pit crew in F1 for years. I'm not calling this a conspiracy but I find it amazing that they blew it in the crucial moment for Daniel. Would never have predicted that.

At the same track interestingly enough, screwed up both Vettel's and Webber's stops

DuckMcF · Post by **DuckMcF** » Mon May 30, 2016 12:55 am

In summary, Hamilton pulled a Bradbury (*1), while Ricciardo got Webbered (*2)

*1 - A recent Australian expression meaning to take Victory out of the jaws of defeat. It comes from Steven Bradbury after he won gold at the 2002 Winter Olympics in the men's short track 1000 metres final after ALL of his competitors fell over. Bradbury later said "I was the oldest bloke in the field and I knew that, skating four races back to back, I wasn't going to have any petrol left in the tank. So there was no point in getting there and mixing it up because I was going to be in last place anyway. So (I figured) I might as well stay out of the way and be in last place and hope that some people get tangled up."

*2 - Probably don't have to explain that one here.....

sandman1347 · Post by **sandman1347** » Mon May 30, 2016 1:24 am

specdecible wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
trento wrote:I'm tempted to say favoritism but these things happen, like Lewis last year. Unfortunately, there aren't many races left where RB can pull off a win, maybe in Singapore and Hungary where engine power is less important.

When you're supposed to win, being 2nd is no better than being last. In fact, it probably feels worse. Hopefully, RB gets its act together for the next races.
Apart from the pitstops, it also depends if they still continue giving preference to Max over him!
They've never done that.
In all the years that Vettel was winning championships I never once saw Red Bull call a driver into the pits and not have the tires ready. They have been the best drilled and fastest pit crew in F1 for years. I'm not calling this a conspiracy but I find it amazing that they blew it in the crucial moment for Daniel. Would never have predicted that.
At the same track interestingly enough, screwed up both Vettel's and Webber's stops

I stand corrected! Interesting that it would happen again in the same place.

trento · Post by **trento** » Mon May 30, 2016 1:33 am

Next screw up.....Air gun fails to work.

Max jumps Ric in position.

Merc wins the race as usual.

Ric is the new Webber. Watch for it. F1 is not always just racing. Sometimes, it can be a team wants a certain driver to win over another.

F1Oz · Post by **F1Oz** » Mon May 30, 2016 1:35 am

Don't know if Dan can win races this year - the Mercs and others are still stronger at most tracks - but I'd like to think so.

Dan would be rightfully gutted

nannini1 · Post by **nannini1** » Mon May 30, 2016 1:59 am

Did not much care for Dan's crying...He did not show leadership today at all. Fine driver but he's been crying for a while now. He has been bemoaning how bad the Renault engine is, never missing a shot to crap on them. Even this weekend his praise of Renault was limited.

Maybe that just puts him on par with the other babies in the sport.. they have all acted this way at one time or another.

Juzzy82 · Post by **Juzzy82** » Mon May 30, 2016 2:08 am

Perhaps Lewis was complementary of Ricciardo because he cost him the win last year at Hungary when he ran into him.

F1zen · Post by **F1zen** » Mon May 30, 2016 2:24 am

I've got a fiver on Ric for Hungary

F1Oz · Post by **F1Oz** » Mon May 30, 2016 3:03 am

nannini1 wrote:Did not much care for Dan's crying...He did not show leadership today at all. Fine driver but he's been crying for a while now. He has been bemoaning how bad the Renault engine is, never missing a shot to crap on them. Even this weekend his praise of Renault was limited.

Maybe that just puts him on par with the other babies in the sport.. they have all acted this way at one time or another.

that's just not true Nannini - it's been Horner, Marko and others who have been moaning - Dan has hardly said anything bad - even last year when the car was terrible - he certainly has been positive about the engine - and this spec in particular - and in this situation, a ludicrous error cost him the win when he is only going to get a few chances to win (this season) - he got back out and drove well - Hamilton clearly blocked him by nearly pushing him into the wall having cut the chicane and should have been penalised as well - again which would have put Dan in front

infi24r · Post by **infi24r** » Mon May 30, 2016 3:32 am

He's one of the best on the grid now. I think its him and Alonso that stand tall at the very top in terms of talent. He surpassed Vettel quite some time ago.

pc27b · Post by **pc27b** » Mon May 30, 2016 3:59 am

Remmirath wrote:
As for drivers voicing their frustration about such things, I don't mind it unless it goes over the line. I don't feel that Ricciardo did, and I'd not have had a problem with any driver saying something similar under those circumstances. That must be quite difficult to deal with to begin with, and they can't just say nothing after the race if they're on the podium; if anything, I think he showed a fair amount of restraint in not saying more, and appeared to have mellowed out and moderated somewhat by the time of the press conference. Reconciliation may be difficult, but it would've been difficult if nothing was said. I don't think he really did much other than state the obvious, and the obvious would've been there rather or not attention was called to it.

this week it is driver dr claiming he got screwed. i'm not slamming dr or saying he is the only one who has done it. just that he did it this week and i am not a big fan of saying "i got screwed" by the pit crew.

but you say "it must be quite difficult to deal with" well, heck yes it would be.
but what about a crew member who put in a 96 hour work week, travels coach(not private jet), shows up days in advance of practice-not day of, or night before, and has to deal with driver tirades behind the scene, has to deal with drivers being the premadona's of the entire team, doesn't make millions a year either.....don't you think those guys, and all the other employees busting their donkeys and then they see a driver make a mistake and tear up the car. "it must be quite difficult to deal with" for them too. they sure as hell aren't going on twitter or some social media claiming the driver "screwed" them this week.
that's what i'm saying, the crew just has to swallow the bitter pill.