Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

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Sarhan
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Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Sarhan »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nYyvYNvdq0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY6GzpSCafg


During the F3 race, involving Ryan Tveter, Pedro Piquet and Peter Li. I hope nobady was hurt. It looked horrble.
Early reports are that Li is awake and alert in the medical centre, Tveter is also in the medical centre with light injuries, and Piquet is unharmed.
source: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/124396
Last edited by Sarhan on Sat May 21, 2016 11:20 am, edited 3 times in total.

flyboy10
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by flyboy10 »

So, where's the rest of the footage to see if the drivers all climbed out?

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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Damn that was so unfortunate. Not only does the car come to a stop on the racing line but it also kicks a load of dirt up behind it so nobody can see.

Hopefully everyone involved is ok.

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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Fiki »

Yellow flags?
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Sarhan
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Sarhan »

Fiki wrote:Yellow flags?
Did you watch the first vid? and it was in slo mo already

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Placid
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Placid »

It caused a red flag.

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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by rivf1 »

That was nasty, i can't believe everyone walked away from that.

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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by RaggedMan »

Holy cow! That's a bad one hope they're all okay.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Jenson's Understeer »

FIA statement:
A serious incident has occurred during Race 1 of Round 4 of the FIA Formula 3 European Championship, involving car number 18 Zhi Cong Li (CHN), number 3 Ryan Tveter (USA) and number 5 Pedro Piquet (BRA).

Following on-track evaluation, Zhi Cong Li and Ryan Tveter were transferred to the circuit’s medical centre. One driver was initially unconscious, but both drivers were conscious on arrival at the medical centre.

Zhi Cong Li has subsequently been taken to hospital via helicopter due to possible head and back injuries.

Ryan Tveter was taken to hospital by ambulance for further examination.
Horrible, horrible crash. Hopefully the "possible head and back injuries" suffered by Li aren't too serious, although given the nature of the crash, that the worst damage done appears to be "possible" injuries is another testament to the strides made in safety.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Fiki »

Sarhan wrote:
Fiki wrote:Yellow flags?
Did you watch the first vid? and it was in slo mo already
I did. It didn't answer my question.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

I hope Tveter gets suspended for at least one race to realize the absolute stupidity of his decision. He loses the corner, OK, that's just a racing thing. But near the end of his spin he lets off the brakes and coasts backwards, in an attempt to keep turning and be pointed in the right direction. The problem was that when he stopped he was sitting right on the racing line, at zero forward speed, and the cloud of dust made it impossible for anyone coming up to know he was there.

He could have locked his brakes down, and come to a safe stop still in the sand/gravel. But he decided to risk rolling backwards, and for that dumb decision, should be severely reprimanded.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Asphalt_World »

Don't agree he should be reprimanded. There is not a driver in the world that does not want to get back on track anyway they can to continue after a gentle spin like that. You can't blame the driver for not taking in to account the dust cloud. Perhaps another reason so many corners do not have gravel any more. Without gravel, he could have spun and kept going off the racing line without the risk of getting stuck.

Double waved flags should have come out straight away and following drivers should have backed off significantly.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Fountoukos13 »

Fiki wrote:
Sarhan wrote:
Fiki wrote:Yellow flags?
Did you watch the first vid? and it was in slo mo already
I did. It didn't answer my question.
In order to wave a flag the marshals have to lean out on the fences. The one at spot of the incident have to wait until the cars stop or move ahead from their posts before they wave the flags for their own safety. 8 seconds after the start of the accident and exactly when piquet's car stopped the red flag was shown on screen, meaning that the marshals had already recieved the message.
Also at the scene of an accident yellow, red & yellow and red flags (as long as the race has stopped) are waved plus double waved yellows if marshals are already on the track.

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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Fiki »

Asphalt_World wrote:Don't agree he should be reprimanded. There is not a driver in the world that does not want to get back on track anyway they can to continue after a gentle spin like that. You can't blame the driver for not taking in to account the dust cloud. Perhaps another reason so many corners do not have gravel any more. Without gravel, he could have spun and kept going off the racing line without the risk of getting stuck.

Double waved flags should have come out straight away and following drivers should have backed off significantly.
I believe a reprimand is in order. The wish to rejoin the race is quite natural, but a driver cannot rejoin anyway he likes. To end up on the racing line at zero speed should never happen.

Thank you for your post, Fountoukos13.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Placid »

Li's update:

Doctors have confirmed that Carlin driver Li Zhi Jong suffered broken bones on 1 of his feet located on his heel and 4 fractured vertebrae. He would not required vertebrae heel. But surgery is a must for his heel.

He could be out for most of the season or the remainder of 2016.

But the incident must be conclusive before they go to officials. He could have stalled before going back to the track.

http://www.motorsport.com/eurof3/news/l ... ae-739006/
Last edited by Placid on Sat May 21, 2016 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Asphalt_World »

Fiki wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:Don't agree he should be reprimanded. There is not a driver in the world that does not want to get back on track anyway they can to continue after a gentle spin like that. You can't blame the driver for not taking in to account the dust cloud. Perhaps another reason so many corners do not have gravel any more. Without gravel, he could have spun and kept going off the racing line without the risk of getting stuck.

Double waved flags should have come out straight away and following drivers should have backed off significantly.
I believe a reprimand is in order. The wish to rejoin the race is quite natural, but a driver cannot rejoin anyway he likes. To end up on the racing line at zero speed should never happen.

Thank you for your post, Fountoukos13.
That's true, but had his hit the brakes he would have been stuck. I doubt there was a chance for him to know exactly where he was to come back on the circuit. Had he appeared little further along, he would have been off the racing line.

I understand the reasoning behind him doing something he shouldn't have done, but I kind of don't blame him.

I think when viewing things like this from the convenience of our armchair and with a lovely wide view from the camera, it's easy to judge that he came back on the circuit in bad place.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

The reason why I lay the entire fault on Tveter is because after the first half-spin, he did not lock down his wheels, and thus chose to coast further, doing a half turn and winding up in the same direction. While I applaud any driver for a strong desire to get going as soon as possible, they must never jeopardize other drivers and find a safe way to re-enter the racing surface.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

Asphalt_World wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:Don't agree he should be reprimanded. There is not a driver in the world that does not want to get back on track anyway they can to continue after a gentle spin like that. You can't blame the driver for not taking in to account the dust cloud. Perhaps another reason so many corners do not have gravel any more. Without gravel, he could have spun and kept going off the racing line without the risk of getting stuck.

Double waved flags should have come out straight away and following drivers should have backed off significantly.
I believe a reprimand is in order. The wish to rejoin the race is quite natural, but a driver cannot rejoin anyway he likes. To end up on the racing line at zero speed should never happen.

Thank you for your post, Fountoukos13.
That's true, but had his hit the brakes he would have been stuck. I doubt there was a chance for him to know exactly where he was to come back on the circuit. Had he appeared little further along, he would have been off the racing line.

I understand the reasoning behind him doing something he shouldn't have done, but I kind of don't blame him.

I think when viewing things like this from the convenience of our armchair and with a lovely wide view from the camera, it's easy to judge that he came back on the circuit in bad place.
I also feel he was at fault but totally agree with your point of view. It was really unfortunate his car came to rest where it did but holy cow that gravel trap was as arid as the Mojave.
As fast as he spun he surely didn't see the plume of dust coming.

Since Paletti's accident My dad suggested all cars should be fitted with remote kill switches with several cameras residing at every corner with people monitoring everything at all times, so that as soon as something like this happens the button is pressed and all cars slow to a mild 35MPH or so and a light would blink in the cockpits so the drivers would know something has happened.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by hittheapex »

Even knowing that there is a crash in that video, it is still a shock when it happens, dreadful accident. I'm amazed Tveter is not injured any worse, but that's the strength of the cars now.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Toby. »

I'd probably agree with the stewards whichever way they went. Horrible crash. I'm surprised the car that hit the spinner continued to go straight through the dust, though. I'd have thought generally he'd have gone out wide to try and get the clearest view of the track ahead.

Very lucky the flying car didn't hit the second car as it came down.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by UnlikeUday »

Tveter did what any other driver would do as the aim is always to come out of the kitty litter if possible & try to continue the race. After looking at the accident, it would be easy to blame him but it was unfortunate that he stopped on the racing line.

Li who collided should've either slowed down or taken a different line entering the corner as am sure he couldn't see through the cloud of dust. Even though he's injured, the best thing is that no one lost a precious life.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by chetan_rao »

Piquet is VERY VERY fortunate Li's airborne car didn't land nose down right into his car's cockpit.

Tveter was either disoriented or unable to engage drive after the spin. His car didn't move at all after he drifted back on track.

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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Lt. Drebin »

UnlikeUday wrote:Li who collided should've either slowed down or taken a different line entering the corner as am sure he couldn't see through the cloud of dust. Even though he's injured, the best thing is that no one lost a precious life.
He was doing the same thing like Raikkonen some years before in Spa, for which he got applaud.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by MistaVega23 »

Just goes to show that gravel traps shouldn't be brought back in place of the current run-off areas we have, even if it does take away the 'punishment' of slowing you down/damaging your car by running wide. Incidents like this should not happen in 2016.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by mikeyg123 »

MistaVega23 wrote:Just goes to show that gravel traps shouldn't be brought back in place of the current run-off areas we have, even if it does take away the 'punishment' of slowing you down/damaging your car by running wide. Incidents like this should not happen in 2016.
I think the extra risk is worth the benefit but each to their own.

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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by ALESI »

Lt. Drebin wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Li who collided should've either slowed down or taken a different line entering the corner as am sure he couldn't see through the cloud of dust. Even though he's injured, the best thing is that no one lost a precious life.
He was doing the same thing like Raikkonen some years before in Spa, for which he got applaud.
Absolutely true, even on the TV Kimi was portrayed as having 'balls of steel' for driving blind into smoke at full pelt. It's always the same, the drivers are superhuman daredevils if it all goes right, but complete idiots if it goes wrong. Whenever I see a driver getting pilloried for a 'dangerous' move, I always think, if that would have come off he would have been 'the awesome, fearless future WDC'.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Asphalt_World »

MistaVega23 wrote:Just goes to show that gravel traps shouldn't be brought back in place of the current run-off areas we have, even if it does take away the 'punishment' of slowing you down/damaging your car by running wide. Incidents like this should not happen in 2016.
I haven't quite formed an opinion on the removal of gravel traps as I don't see tarmac run off areas as a great solution in terms of racing. I understand the safety reasons though.

That said, I can't remember ever seeing a car throw up so much dust from any gavel track in the world. I think the gravel used was more to blame than the driver. It was a crazy amount of dust.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Fiki »

ALESI wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Li who collided should've either slowed down or taken a different line entering the corner as am sure he couldn't see through the cloud of dust. Even though he's injured, the best thing is that no one lost a precious life.
He was doing the same thing like Raikkonen some years before in Spa, for which he got applaud.
Absolutely true, even on the TV Kimi was portrayed as having 'balls of steel' for driving blind into smoke at full pelt. It's always the same, the drivers are superhuman daredevils if it all goes right, but complete idiots if it goes wrong. Whenever I see a driver getting pilloried for a 'dangerous' move, I always think, if that would have come off he would have been 'the awesome, fearless future WDC'.
The two incidents are only superficially similar. In the case of Räikkönen driving through the cloud of smoke from a blown engine, it was clear to him that the driver of the stricken car had remained on the right-hand side of the track, while he was going left sooner or later anyway. The reason it was clear to him, was the liquid trail on the track. The action looked spectacular, but was far less unpredictable than last weekend's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKL6VlMeLk4

While I don't know what the cause of the off into the gravel trap was this weekend, in this case there was no indication of where the car would be in the cloud.

Except for a possible brake problem in the car, the driver should indeed have used his brakes and risk getting stuck in the gravel. Safety is more important than a high number of participants.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by mikeyg123 »

Fiki wrote:
ALESI wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Li who collided should've either slowed down or taken a different line entering the corner as am sure he couldn't see through the cloud of dust. Even though he's injured, the best thing is that no one lost a precious life.
He was doing the same thing like Raikkonen some years before in Spa, for which he got applaud.
Absolutely true, even on the TV Kimi was portrayed as having 'balls of steel' for driving blind into smoke at full pelt. It's always the same, the drivers are superhuman daredevils if it all goes right, but complete idiots if it goes wrong. Whenever I see a driver getting pilloried for a 'dangerous' move, I always think, if that would have come off he would have been 'the awesome, fearless future WDC'.
The two incidents are only superficially similar. In the case of Räikkönen driving through the cloud of smoke from a blown engine, it was clear to him that the driver of the stricken car had remained on the right-hand side of the track, while he was going left sooner or later anyway. The reason it was clear to him, was the liquid trail on the track. The action looked spectacular, but was far less unpredictable than last weekend's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKL6VlMeLk4

While I don't know what the cause of the off into the gravel trap was this weekend, in this case there was no indication of where the car would be in the cloud.

Except for a possible brake problem in the car, the driver should indeed have used his brakes and risk getting stuck in the gravel. Safety is more important than a high number of participants.
So Kimi was right to ignore yellow flags? He knew for certain a second car couldn't be stopped in there? Just playing devils advocate.

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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by UnlikeUday »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
ALESI wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Li who collided should've either slowed down or taken a different line entering the corner as am sure he couldn't see through the cloud of dust. Even though he's injured, the best thing is that no one lost a precious life.
He was doing the same thing like Raikkonen some years before in Spa, for which he got applaud.
Absolutely true, even on the TV Kimi was portrayed as having 'balls of steel' for driving blind into smoke at full pelt. It's always the same, the drivers are superhuman daredevils if it all goes right, but complete idiots if it goes wrong. Whenever I see a driver getting pilloried for a 'dangerous' move, I always think, if that would have come off he would have been 'the awesome, fearless future WDC'.
The two incidents are only superficially similar. In the case of Räikkönen driving through the cloud of smoke from a blown engine, it was clear to him that the driver of the stricken car had remained on the right-hand side of the track, while he was going left sooner or later anyway. The reason it was clear to him, was the liquid trail on the track. The action looked spectacular, but was far less unpredictable than last weekend's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKL6VlMeLk4

While I don't know what the cause of the off into the gravel trap was this weekend, in this case there was no indication of where the car would be in the cloud.

Except for a possible brake problem in the car, the driver should indeed have used his brakes and risk getting stuck in the gravel. Safety is more important than a high number of participants.
So Kimi was right to ignore yellow flags? He knew for certain a second car couldn't be stopped in there? Just playing devils advocate.
I wonder back in 2002 during this, he might've been warned on the radio about a car blowing up but he responded by saying "Leave me alone, I know what I'm doing!"
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

hittheapex wrote:Even knowing that there is a crash in that video, it is still a shock when it happens, dreadful accident. I'm amazed Tveter is not injured any worse, but that's the strength of the cars now.
While that's true, it does give some validity to the noses sitting a tad higher in that otherwise Li's leg injuries could've been far worse, not to mention his other injuries as well.

The higher nose forced the car to slide upwards over the rear of other one as the impact unfolded.

As for gravel traps, I agree with mikeyg123. As well, not all gravel traps have that much dust. Some just have different size layers of gravel with the larger ones up top and they get smaller as they go down.Sure over time they can and will develop dust from moving around, but a quick spray over them before the morning activities would go a long way to minimizing dust.
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Re: Huge crash at Red Bull Ring today

Post by Fiki »

mikeyg123 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
ALESI wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:Li who collided should've either slowed down or taken a different line entering the corner as am sure he couldn't see through the cloud of dust. Even though he's injured, the best thing is that no one lost a precious life.
He was doing the same thing like Raikkonen some years before in Spa, for which he got applaud.
Absolutely true, even on the TV Kimi was portrayed as having 'balls of steel' for driving blind into smoke at full pelt. It's always the same, the drivers are superhuman daredevils if it all goes right, but complete idiots if it goes wrong. Whenever I see a driver getting pilloried for a 'dangerous' move, I always think, if that would have come off he would have been 'the awesome, fearless future WDC'.
The two incidents are only superficially similar. In the case of Räikkönen driving through the cloud of smoke from a blown engine, it was clear to him that the driver of the stricken car had remained on the right-hand side of the track, while he was going left sooner or later anyway. The reason it was clear to him, was the liquid trail on the track. The action looked spectacular, but was far less unpredictable than last weekend's.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKL6VlMeLk4

While I don't know what the cause of the off into the gravel trap was this weekend, in this case there was no indication of where the car would be in the cloud.

Except for a possible brake problem in the car, the driver should indeed have used his brakes and risk getting stuck in the gravel. Safety is more important than a high number of participants.
So Kimi was right to ignore yellow flags? He knew for certain a second car couldn't be stopped in there? Just playing devils advocate.
It's a valid comment. I don't know if they were waved in time (just as I don't know whether they were waved in time in the Red Bull Ring crash).
If they were, he was at fault. Jules Bianchi showed us how dangerous it can be to ignore yellow flags. And don't just mean to the drivers.
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