"Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosberg?

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IDrinkYourMilkshake
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"Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosberg?

Post by IDrinkYourMilkshake »

It's really fishy, after Spa 2014, he was quick to accuse Rosberg, together with Lauda, with Rosberg not even getting a chance to speak first.

However, after the last race, Hamilton admitted he was wrong, Lauda called it as Hamilton's mistake, but Toto had a problem with that and said both drivers are wrong, despite one admitting to it.

And then this strange piece of news. Which team principal talks like this, saying "If my driver doesn't sign, I already have another lined up, who's fantastic". The timing and the words are really, really inappropriate.

http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/5655 ... edes_boss/

Is it a commercial angle for favouring Hamilton, since he's the more extroverted, celeb-lifestyle driver, which Wolff might think helps the Mercedes brand get young customers, or is it something else?

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by mikeyg123 »

A - I don't think Lewis has accepted he was entirely to blame.

B - It's Wolff's job to negotiate the best deal for Mercedes. he would hardly be doing his job if he declared signing Rosberg was essential and he had no other options. It's just ramping up the pressure on Nico to get him sign. Wolff wouldn't be doing his job if he didn't. So it's entirely appropriate.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

I've been leaning towards this for a bit now so I'm not surprised. they signed Hamilton to a large deal and Nico is on the last year of his contract and Alonso is not happy AND available. To have arguably the 2 absolute best drivers on the top team… WOW!

If it does happen I don't think the fireworks will be nearly as great as on 2007 because both drivers have grown and matured tremendously and both already know and respect each others ability.
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

He points out in the article that Alonso tried to get in there in 2015 but they had maintained that they would negotiate with Hamilton before talking to any other driver and therefore discussions never happened.

He also says that "If Nico does not want to renew, we will consider other options"

Sound to me that, like it was with Hamilton, the ball is firmly in Nico's court. If he doesn't sign they will go for someone else.

So no the anti-Nico stuff is a non story, Wolff just stated the obvious and the headline writers took care of the overreaction.

Another silly season rumour is that Nico has been talking to Ferrari for 2017, that could cause him to leave Mercedes but it would be his decision, he wouldn't be getting the boot.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Mr-E »

F1 MERCENARY wrote: If it does happen I don't think the fireworks will be nearly as great as on 2007 because both drivers have grown and matured tremendously and both already know and respect each others ability.

Alonso even said in a F1.com Q/A video that Lewis was the one driver he would live with on a desert Island. ;)
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

From the article, it appears that Mercedes wants Rosberg, and whether he is in a Mercedes in 2017 is up to him.

Second point: If Rosberg wins the title (and it seems more likely than ever before), how much are Ferrari willing to spend to obtain the services of a quality driver and having the number ONE on a car?

IMO Rosberg is sitting pretty, and Mercedes, Ferrari, and probably other teams are currently bidding for his services.
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by HS Thompson »

If I ran Mercedes I would not even think about resigning Rosberg. I would go right for Alonso, without delay!

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

HS Thompson wrote:If I ran Mercedes I would not even think about resigning Rosberg. I would go right for Alonso, without delay!
You have to look at cost vs gain if you're the boss.

Rosberg may be a WDC by next year proving he can do the job Mercedes want him to. Is he as good as Hamilton? No.

Does he need to be though? No. In Rosberg they have a driver who can push one of the very best, if their top driver (one of the elite) fails to win the title for whatever reason (be it mistakes, reliability etc.) they have a driver who can pick up the pieces.

For as long as they have Lewis they don't need Alonso and the cost of getting him could be 3x higher than retaining Nico and probably more since they will not get him without buying McLaren out and they won't be selling his contract cheap.

Add to that the fluff about Mercedes being a German brand and having a German driver being good for their publicity and I simply cannot see it happening.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Biffa »

I would love to see Alonso at Merc for no other reason than it would be a real shame if he retired without having serious shot at another championship.

On the other hand, even though I’m more a fan of Hamilton I can’t see anything that might warrant getting rid of Nico from a performance point of view.

I dare say that if they are considering this then it’s more about marketing and branding than performance, being able to boast the (perceived) top two drivers of the generation is probably quite a serious consideration.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by mikeyg123 »

Blinky McSquinty wrote:From the article, it appears that Mercedes wants Rosberg, and whether he is in a Mercedes in 2017 is up to him.

Second point: If Rosberg wins the title (and it seems more likely than ever before), how much are Ferrari willing to spend to obtain the services of a quality driver and having the number ONE on a car?

IMO Rosberg is sitting pretty, and Mercedes, Ferrari, and probably other teams are currently bidding for his services.
I'm not sure about Ferrari but I bet Rosberg is very high up Renault's shortlist for 2017.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by RaggedMan »

The best way to guarantee that the 2017 regulation changes bring an end to Mercedes dominance is for Alonso to sign with them.
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Porsan »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:If I ran Mercedes I would not even think about resigning Rosberg. I would go right for Alonso, without delay!
You have to look at cost vs gain if you're the boss.

Rosberg may be a WDC by next year proving he can do the job Mercedes want him to. Is he as good as Hamilton? No.

Does he need to be though? No. In Rosberg they have a driver who can push one of the very best, if their top driver (one of the elite) fails to win the title for whatever reason (be it mistakes, reliability etc.) they have a driver who can pick up the pieces.

For as long as they have Lewis they don't need Alonso and the cost of getting him could be 3x higher than retaining Nico and probably more since they will not get him without buying McLaren out and they won't be selling his contract cheap.

Add to that the fluff about Mercedes being a German brand and having a German driver being good for their publicity and I simply cannot see it happening.
Who knows? Maybe, from a marketing point of view, they have come to a point where winning doesn't mean anything anymore (perception of "too easy for them") and they need an explosive driver line-up to spice up things and get more media coverage.
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Exediron »

RaggedMan wrote:The best way to guarantee that the 2017 regulation changes bring an end to Mercedes dominance is for Alonso to sign with them.
:lol:

It hurts because it's true... :uhoh:
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by WHoff78 »

Surely a bargaining standpoint from Wolff. Rosberg is probably pushing for a similar wage to Lewis on the basis he has a sizeable lead in the championship. Mercedes will perhaps not go that high for both drivers.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Amon »

Doesn't Alonso have a contract at Macca for 2017 as well? Or does he have a get out clause if McLaren again cannot deliver the desired results this eason?

Fernando is not getting any younger and I don't know about his motivation. I think the only reason to replace Nico is when the situation between Lewis and Nico would really get out of hand. I azm positive however there are teams like Ferrari, Macca and Renault willing to sign him definitely if he would take the WDC.
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by fieldstvl »

Mr-E wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote: If it does happen I don't think the fireworks will be nearly as great as on 2007 because both drivers have grown and matured tremendously and both already know and respect each others ability.

Alonso even said in a F1.com Q/A video that Lewis was the one driver he would live with on a desert Island. ;)
Just watched that Q+A video with Alonso and Sainz - that was brilliant :thumbup:

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by flyboy10 »

I can't imagine that there would be anything other than a total sh1tstorm on the track if Hamilton and Alonso were paired together again. That doesn't mean they wouldn't do it but if they think they need to manage their drivers now, they really need to think what it would be like with those two together again.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Lt. Drebin »

There are risks of HAM-ALO pairing.

1. If Hamilton does not tighten his screws, and remains half lost with his performance, or has a mixed performance, he would make his WDC chances considerably smaller, and bring Mercedes into trouble.

2. Alonso is already coming to age where a drop in performance will occur by nature. There is nothing you can do about it. Once when it hits Alonso, he will be a lost case.

3. One more heavy crash, and Alonso is out of the sport on medical basis. His recent crashes are making him vulnerable and a risky driver for the team.

4. They both have two biggest ego's in F1. Hamilton has been emotionally rattled at times with his childhood friend Rosberg ("we are no buddies anymore" - "we are buddies, no problem"), how much more will it be with Alonso? On his part, Alonso is not easy to deal with for the opposite reason; he is cold and calculated, and therefore dangerous for the team and the driver from the other corner of the pit. The pairing looks increasingly hard to deal with, specially at the end of the year when one will come on top and the other will be a looser.
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by moby »

Is this for current negotiations? Sounds like past tense to me, possibly not even last year.

TBH, why would Merc want Alonso instead of Rosberg? The cost alone would be a huge outlay for on gain.
On past records, Nico has brought the car home in a strong second as often as not when he did not win.
A 1-2 is a 1-2 whoever is driving. If it did come to disruption between the drivers it is a possible option, but Alonso? Nah, not instead of Nico anyway.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Arbitrarius »

Sounds like a negotiating tactic.

Regarding Alonso joining Hamilton, that would never work. While I'm sure relations between them are cordial, their mutual admiration routine is more about Vettel than each other.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

Exediron wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:The best way to guarantee that the 2017 regulation changes bring an end to Mercedes dominance is for Alonso to sign with them.
:lol:

It hurts because it's true... :uhoh:
And everyone will be calling out Alonso at the end of 2017 for not realising that it was absolutely clear that Mercedes would lose their advantage and the McHonda was the car to be in!
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by trento »

No team principal in his right mind will put Alonso and Hamilton in the same team. And history shows why too. I doubt either driver would mind but the end result could be frequent accidents.

Toto is playing mind games with Rosberg. He def wants Ros to remain. He's slower than Hamilton and is less aggressive, making him a perfect no.2.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by trento »

flyboy10 wrote:I can't imagine that there would be anything other than a total sh1tstorm on the track if Hamilton and Alonso were paired together again. That doesn't mean they wouldn't do it but if they think they need to manage their drivers now, they really need to think what it would be like with those two together again.
No one can manage an Alonso-Hamilton pairing. Oh perhaps Brawn but he isn't around.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by IDrinkYourMilkshake »

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/article/ ... eport.html

Now this makes some sense. If Nico is in talks with Ferrari, maybe this is Wolff's counter that they can get Alonso. Maybe it's a message to Nico that his wages won't be increased. Maybe it's a genuine threat. It seems like contract negotiations are being done using the media, like we've seen before.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

Once again, further affirmation of my suspicions. Wonder if all this would leave Kimi the odd man out. Would another team look to acquire his services. He is after all looking excellent against Vettel now that some things have been addressed to suit his preferences.

Things are definitely heating up.
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Covalent »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:Once again, further affirmation of my suspicions. Wonder if all this would leave Kimi the odd man out. Would another team look to acquire his services. He is after all looking excellent against Vettel now that some things have been addressed to suit his preferences.

Things are definitely heating up.
I don't think he'll go to any other team anymore. Well maybe if Mercedes propose a very unlikely Nico-Kimi swap.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Zoue »

Covalent wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:Once again, further affirmation of my suspicions. Wonder if all this would leave Kimi the odd man out. Would another team look to acquire his services. He is after all looking excellent against Vettel now that some things have been addressed to suit his preferences.

Things are definitely heating up.
I don't think he'll go to any other team anymore. Well maybe if Mercedes propose a very unlikely Nico-Kimi swap.
Correspondent Giorgio Terruzzi said Ferrari’s new interest in Rosberg is powered by moves at other top teams to spice up their respective drivers’ lineups.

Red Bull has Max Verstappen, McLaren will reportedly sign up Stoffel Vandoorne for 2017, and so officials at Ferrari believe “36-year-old Kimi, though well-liked by most in the team, is considered too inconsistent”.


http://www.grandprix247.com/2016/05/17/ ... h-ferrari/

sadly, I'd have to agree with the bit in bold. On his day, Kimi is great, but you have to be an expert at reading the tea leaves to predict when that day might be. I think he's too great a risk for any top team to seriously consider any more, much as I'd like to hope the opposite. He's gelling well at Ferrari at the moment and seems to work well with Allison, but unlocking the secret to his car preferences seems to be anything but easy. Which top team would really want to make that gamble now?

I hope Kimi stays at Ferrari and I personally think he's better than Rosberg, but I fully understand if they feel that it might be too much risk. OTOH, I also think Rosberg would not be a good fit at Ferrari, either. I think they may well regret that if it comes to pass.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Ennis »

Lt. Drebin wrote:There are risks of HAM-ALO pairing.

1. If Hamilton does not tighten his screws, and remains half lost with his performance, or has a mixed performance, he would make his WDC chances considerably smaller, and bring Mercedes into trouble.

2. Alonso is already coming to age where a drop in performance will occur by nature. There is nothing you can do about it. Once when it hits Alonso, he will be a lost case.

3. One more heavy crash, and Alonso is out of the sport on medical basis. His recent crashes are making him vulnerable and a risky driver for the team.

4. They both have two biggest ego's in F1. Hamilton has been emotionally rattled at times with his childhood friend Rosberg ("we are no buddies anymore" - "we are buddies, no problem"), how much more will it be with Alonso? On his part, Alonso is not easy to deal with for the opposite reason; he is cold and calculated, and therefore dangerous for the team and the driver from the other corner of the pit. The pairing looks increasingly hard to deal with, specially at the end of the year when one will come on top and the other will be a looser.
1. From Merc's perspective they'll still have WDC
2. His performance will drop but it doesn't fall off a cliff, he's still a top, top driver
3. Says who? His recent crashes were more due to luck than anything else, he's no more of less of a risk than any other driver. He doesn't have an ongoing medical condition.
4. Hamilton has spent his entire life being faster than Rosberg, when that doesn't happen he'll hate it. It can be a respect thing - I can handle losing to the best but I can't handle losing to a 2nd tier driver. I don't think it would be harmonious, 2 drivers with a WDC chance in a WCC car will always have tension - but there's nothing to suggest it'll be worse than Hamilton & Rosberg...

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by trento »

Kimi will only drive for RB and Merc besides Ferrari. So a lot depends on what happens to Rosberg. I think if by mid season, his lead is big enough, he'll stay. If he's losing, he might consider another team. Vettel is going nowhere.

Merc will likely take Alonso despite all the problems.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by mcdo »

RaggedMan wrote:The best way to guarantee that the 2017 regulation changes bring an end to Mercedes dominance is for Alonso to sign with them.
:lol:
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by mcdo »

trento wrote:No team principal in his right mind will put Alonso and Hamilton in the same team. And history shows why too. I doubt either driver would mind but the end result could be frequent accidents.

Toto is playing mind games with Rosberg. He def wants Ros to remain. He's slower than Hamilton and is less aggressive, making him a perfect no.2.
In what universe is the perfect number 2 hammering the number 1 in the championship and at the most recent race they took each other out?
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by mcdo »

Porsan wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
HS Thompson wrote:If I ran Mercedes I would not even think about resigning Rosberg. I would go right for Alonso, without delay!
You have to look at cost vs gain if you're the boss.

Rosberg may be a WDC by next year proving he can do the job Mercedes want him to. Is he as good as Hamilton? No.

Does he need to be though? No. In Rosberg they have a driver who can push one of the very best, if their top driver (one of the elite) fails to win the title for whatever reason (be it mistakes, reliability etc.) they have a driver who can pick up the pieces.

For as long as they have Lewis they don't need Alonso and the cost of getting him could be 3x higher than retaining Nico and probably more since they will not get him without buying McLaren out and they won't be selling his contract cheap.

Add to that the fluff about Mercedes being a German brand and having a German driver being good for their publicity and I simply cannot see it happening.
Who knows? Maybe, from a marketing point of view, they have come to a point where winning doesn't mean anything anymore (perception of "too easy for them") and they need an explosive driver line-up to spice up things and get more media coverage.
I don't know how it can get any spicier than last weekend
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Zoue »

trento wrote:Kimi will only drive for RB and Merc besides Ferrari. So a lot depends on what happens to Rosberg. I think if by mid season, his lead is big enough, he'll stay. If he's losing, he might consider another team. Vettel is going nowhere.

Merc will likely take Alonso despite all the problems.
There's no way RB would take Kimi. They have a decent driver in Sainz waiting in the wings should either of their current drivers leave, so they have no need to take anyone externally.

I also don't see Mercedes taking Kimi, although my crystal ball is a little murkier on that one. I strongly suspect Kimi will be saying goodbye to F1 at the same time he says goodbye to Ferrari.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Zoue »

mcdo wrote:
trento wrote:No team principal in his right mind will put Alonso and Hamilton in the same team. And history shows why too. I doubt either driver would mind but the end result could be frequent accidents.

Toto is playing mind games with Rosberg. He def wants Ros to remain. He's slower than Hamilton and is less aggressive, making him a perfect no.2.
In what universe is the perfect number 2 hammering the number 1 in the championship and at the most recent race they took each other out?
I'd say the former is exactly why he's the perfect number two: he can pick up the slack when the number one fails to make the cut for any reason. As for the latter, I think too much is being made of this if I'm honest. Everything happened in the blink of an eye and was more down to pure reaction skills than any forethought. I think it's a little premature when it could just as easily have been down to a panic reaction on seeing a blur in his mirrors after fiddling with his settings.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by moby »

Like most " articles " it consists of "He said" and " He said that" taken from different sources and compiled in what is probably a different sequence and in replies to different questions. To get any real information on it, it would have to come from the same article with questions and replies and the correct time frame.

The people who write things like this need to collect up snippets and present them in a different context to others so that you will read it.



(This probably means Nico is driving a Ferrari next week the way things have gone for me recently :] )

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by jrwb6e »

It's sort of unprofessional to talk about contracts in the open, but this is a negotiating ploy to get Rosberg to sign cheaply. Alonso's being used as a pawn like he was two years ago when Hamilton was under negotiations.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by lamo »

I don't think Alono would be expensive - he has no bargaining power. Mercedes just say to him

"you are more than likely never to get another title challenge, you haven't won a title since 2006, a race since 2013. Do you want a final shot at a title? Here is 10 million if you want to"

Then Alonso can choose money or the chance to fight for more wins and a title one last time. He probably already has 150 million in the bank, so the 10 million in cash is nothing. I know what I would do if I was him. Mercedes do not need Alonso, Alonso needs Mercedes.

Probably academic, as Nico is favoured to be retained. I can only see this happening if Nico goes to Ferrari.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by ALESI »

Didn't Alonso say he would drive the Merc for nothing? Or did I imagine that?

As for the article, usual negotiation tactics. Merc is the car to be in, I don't see a queue looking for Rosberg particularly... so even though he is leading the championship now, I think he is in a weak position. I'm quite surprised he's getting as much as he is to be honest so I can well imagine Merc not wanting to pay more. I suspect Rosberg would like to wait until he is a lot closer to winning the title before he signs, after all, Jaguar were willing to pay Eddie Irvine a fortune if he brought the Number 1 to them. They still paid him a fortune, but I think they offered even more if he was WDC.
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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Would Alonso join Merc for free if Nico was in the other seat on 15 million? Possibly IMO.

I doubt he would join for free if Hamilton was in the other seat on 30 million though, just because of his sheer competitiveness I don't think he would like to be getting nothing while his main rival if getting paid loads.

Also, that would put him in a really weak position going forward if he wanted to stay on for more than a year, he would be negotiating up from nothing and there's only so far you can get from where you start in negotiations.

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Re: "Nico can be replaced by Alonso" - Is Wolff Against Rosb

Post by Chunky »

:thumbup:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:From the article, it appears that Mercedes wants Rosberg, and whether he is in a Mercedes in 2017 is up to him.

Second point: If Rosberg wins the title (and it seems more likely than ever before), how much are Ferrari willing to spend to obtain the services of a quality driver and having the number ONE on a car?

IMO Rosberg is sitting pretty, and Mercedes, Ferrari, and probably other teams are currently bidding for his services.
:thumbup: This. Well....... the first part at least.

Surely whether Rosberg is in a Mercedes is up to him, the team are unlikely to dump him if the price is right.

But suppose he can't win the WDC from where he is now. Would he just chuck in the towel and walk away? Mercedes certainly wouldn't be willing to re-sign at anything like the salary Hamilton is on, he's the team star and everyone, including Rosberg recognises that.

As for Ferarri, it's a complete non-starter. If Nico can get the lip on when he's in equal machinery at Mercedes, there's no way he's going to be a good team fit as number 2 to Vettel.

For my money, Rosberg will be a great fit at Williams, alongside Button while Bottas goes to the Scuderia. Massa will bite the dust.

If Alonso went to Merc he would complete a career of chronic, mis-timed choices, leaving McLaren just as the Honda engine comes good and delivers a WCC/WDC car.


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Last edited by Chunky on Wed May 18, 2016 12:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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