Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

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Who's fault was it, and by how much?

Rosberg, Race ban
8
5%
Rosberg, 10 place grid penalty
38
22%
None
82
48%
Hamilton, 10 place grid penalty
36
21%
Hamilton, Race ban
6
4%
 
Total votes: 170

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moby
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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by moby »

flyboy10 wrote:Interesting that, because a lot of people are saying Rosberg is the winner in this situation because Hamilton hasn't closed the gap to him in the championship. But that would only be true if Lewis would otherwise have gone on to win. With Nico beating him to turn one, surely that's a net loss of 7 points for Rosberg?
It is a loss of 25 possible to Lewis, as there is one race less left and the score difference is the same as it was yesterday.
It also means that Lewis knows Nico is willing to take both cars off.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by j man »

flyboy10 wrote:
j man wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:
j man wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:Isn't the difference that Michael left a car's width? ;)
Meaning.... Rosberg's move was even worse?

Though technically Schumacher didn't leave a car's width to the white line that marks the edge of the track.
Just saying that that is the difference and Michael did absolutely nothing wrong. It's debatable whether Nico was required to leave a car's width because I haven't seen a video that convinces me Hamilton was alongside. The stewards said he didn't do anything to be punished for.
As for Michael leaving a car's width to the white line, think about this. If you leave a 1mm gap to the edge of the white line, you have left your opponent a full car's width in which to pass without him leaving the track limits!
I think I've just invented a defence for Rosberg in today's race. There was definitely a car's width for Lewis to use without having to leave the track but it meant him being on the grass, where he was out of control (I wish Ross Brawn or Max Mosley were discussing this. I think they'd have an interesting argument).
Fair enough if you think Michael's move that day was fair, at least your logic is consistent. But I remember there being absolute uproar about that move at the time and he was given a 10 place grid penalty. I believe some paddock figures such as Jackie Stewart were calling for a race ban. In my view chopping across the track like that in front of a faster, overtaking car is dangerous and shouldn't be allowed. Making a defensive move on a straight is obviously part of racing but it needs to be timed correctly to act as a deterrent and force the attacking car to pass on the other side, not to physically block the move and force them to slam on the brakes to avoid a crash.

Does your argument suggest that Hamilton's various turn 1 squeezes on Rosberg last season were all absolutely fair? He left at least 1mm to the edge of the track after all ;)
I think the ones where he ran into him like at Austen were not fair (compared with what Rosberg got from his team for Spa) and a lot of the squeezing Hamilton did on Rosberg was on the outside on exits of corners where I'm still not sure what the rules really are.
You could argue that Michael's squeeze on Rubens was the most perfectly judged mm perfect piece of driving which just left enough room for Rubens to decide how brave he wanted to be. Yes, it was dangerous but was it actually against the rules? Maybe the rules are wrong and maybe the stewards get their decisions wrong?
I think the rules need another tweak and a re-write to make it absolutely clear what's allowed and what's not - and for the rationale behind he rule to make sense in it's execution.
A fair point, no matter what I think of the rights and wrongs of it there isn't a specific rule against that sort of move. I feel it is dangerous to force another driver to hit the brakes on a straight though and I do think it should be looked at.

For the record I also don't like the now-common practice of pushing drivers off the track on the exit of corners and I think Hamilton's moves on Rosberg at the tail end of last season were the wrong side of acceptable (but again, not explicitly against the rules I don't think). If the attacking car has made it past the apex of the corner and is still alongside then as far as I'm concerned they are entitled to some space and pushing them off while 'holding the racing line' isn't right. But that's one for another thread.

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Re: Rosberg Vs Hamilton Spanish gp crash. The debate

Post by j man »

Fiki wrote:
j man wrote:
I mentioned the Schumacher / Barrichello incident in Hungary earlier (1:45 in the video). Honestly the defensive manoeuvre being made looks similar to me, the only difference being that there was a wall there rather than some grass. But track limits are track limits. Remember at the time people were calling for a race ban for Schumacher over this.
If you really think the only difference between the two incidents is the presence of a wall, I'm glad you aren't a steward.
Care to enlighten me?

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by flyboy10 »

Still thinking through this incident and this has occurred to me. Would it have been different if the two cars had touched before Lewis went off on to the grass? The analogy is in football where a player jumps over a really bad tackle which, if he'd not tried to avoid it, would have resulted in contact leaving the referee no choice but to give a penalty.

Effectively, Lewis jumped over the tackle today. By going on to the grass, he gave the stewards nothing to penalise. He basically went off on to the grass on his own. He wasn't pushed off the track. He chickened out of crashing but chose grass instead of brakes.

If he'd steered a straight course, the net result of both cars going out would probably have been the same but he might have got Nico a penalty for the next race. I think this is the sort of speed of thought that someone like Schumacher and possibly Vettel would have had the mental capacity to work through in real time during the overtaking manoeuvre.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

flyboy10 wrote:I think this is the sort of speed of thought that someone like Schumacher and possibly Vettel would have had the mental capacity to work through in real time during the overtaking manoeuvre.
Yeah or other brilliant drivers like Alonso, Prost and Hamilton...

Seriously "mental capacity"? What a baseless criticism. How can you expect people take your opinion on incidents like this seriously when you post things like that?

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by flyboy10 »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:I think this is the sort of speed of thought that someone like Schumacher and possibly Vettel would have had the mental capacity to work through in real time during the overtaking manoeuvre.
Yeah or other brilliant drivers like Alonso, Prost and Hamilton...

Seriously "mental capacity"? What a baseless criticism. How can you expect people take your opinion on incidents like this seriously when you post things like that?
Who am I criticising? I'm suggesting a possible course of action and I'm praising Schumacher and Vettel. If you want to see it as something else, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. Schumacher deliberately crashed into Damon Hill in 1994 to win the WDC because he was able to think quickly enough in the heat of the moment (with enough information in his head before the start of the race) about what it would mean to crash them both out, compared to just accepting that his car was damaged beyond repair. Ross Brawn often talked about a "capacity" that Michael had which other drivers just didn't have. I don't think many (if any with the exception of Vettel) has come along with a similar capacity.

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Re: Rosberg Vs Hamilton Spanish gp crash. The debate

Post by mikeyg123 »

Fiki wrote:
j man wrote:
I mentioned the Schumacher / Barrichello incident in Hungary earlier (1:45 in the video). Honestly the defensive manoeuvre being made looks similar to me, the only difference being that there was a wall there rather than some grass. But track limits are track limits. Remember at the time people were calling for a race ban for Schumacher over this.
If you really think the only difference between the two incidents is the presence of a wall, I'm glad you aren't a steward.
Knowing your views on drivers running each other off the track and the high standards you hold drivers to RE racing etiquette when blocking etc and knowing your opinion in regards to stewarding decisions I assume you don't blame Hamilton for this?

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by sandman1347 »

flyboy10 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:I think this is the sort of speed of thought that someone like Schumacher and possibly Vettel would have had the mental capacity to work through in real time during the overtaking manoeuvre.
Yeah or other brilliant drivers like Alonso, Prost and Hamilton...

Seriously "mental capacity"? What a baseless criticism. How can you expect people take your opinion on incidents like this seriously when you post things like that?
Who am I criticising? I'm suggesting a possible course of action and I'm praising Schumacher and Vettel. If you want to see it as something else, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. Schumacher deliberately crashed into Damon Hill in 1994 to win the WDC because he was able to think quickly enough in the heat of the moment (with enough information in his head before the start of the race) about what it would mean to crash them both out, compared to just accepting that his car was damaged beyond repair. Ross Brawn often talked about a "capacity" that Michael had which other drivers just didn't have. I don't think many (if any with the exception of Vettel) has come along with a similar capacity.
Can you just give it a rest please? We all get it. You don't like Lewis Hamilton. Pretty much all of your posts are about that. You'd like to see him disqualified for life or something. Enough is enough already. Your agenda is way too see-through.

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purchville
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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by purchville »

Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate

Racing incident which came about due to the coincidence of Rosberg inattentiveness / Hamilton aggressiveness.
Play on, more races like that please.
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flyboy10
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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by flyboy10 »

sandman1347 wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:I think this is the sort of speed of thought that someone like Schumacher and possibly Vettel would have had the mental capacity to work through in real time during the overtaking manoeuvre.
Yeah or other brilliant drivers like Alonso, Prost and Hamilton...

Seriously "mental capacity"? What a baseless criticism. How can you expect people take your opinion on incidents like this seriously when you post things like that?
Who am I criticising? I'm suggesting a possible course of action and I'm praising Schumacher and Vettel. If you want to see it as something else, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. Schumacher deliberately crashed into Damon Hill in 1994 to win the WDC because he was able to think quickly enough in the heat of the moment (with enough information in his head before the start of the race) about what it would mean to crash them both out, compared to just accepting that his car was damaged beyond repair. Ross Brawn often talked about a "capacity" that Michael had which other drivers just didn't have. I don't think many (if any with the exception of Vettel) has come along with a similar capacity.
Can you just give it a rest please? We all get it. You don't like Lewis Hamilton. Pretty much all of your posts are about that. You'd like to see him disqualified for life or something. Enough is enough already. Your agenda is way too see-through.
Do you mean you want me to stop expressing my opinion? I don't think that's going to happen. I live in a free country and I enjoy the freedom of speech to express that opinion and to openly admit whether I like or dislike someone on a personal level or otherwise. I don't like Hamilton and I don't try to hide it but don't mistake that as being the same as prejudiced or having an agenda. I haven't called for any punishment or penalty for Hamilton over this incident. The stewards have decided that there was no penalty required and no blame apportioned. My point is that if Hamilton had actually crashed into Rosberg instead of taking to the grass (he should really have braked) then he might have come out of this better than just a no points score for both him and his rival.

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James14
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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by James14 »

Voted None. Racing incident.

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TedStriker
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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by TedStriker »

It all happened so quickly that neither driver could have really made a calculated decision on whether the cars would be side by side (even if only by a small part of Hamilton's wing) by the time Rosberg had moved across to less than one car's width from the track limits. There's a lot of talk here of a gap that was always going to close, but that's not the case - to do that you have to close the gap before the driver behind has reached your car. Had Rosberg turned sharper to the right then that would have happened and Hamilton would have had to brake/let off. As it was, he tried to close the gap but before he's done so, Hamilton's wing was alongside at which point he has to leave the car's width.

Also, why did Rosberg stay on the far right of the track after Hamilton had gone off when he was heading into a right hand curve? Had he gone to the outside then he may well have avoided being hit.

Racing incident is the right verdict, but I'd bet that had Rosberg not been taken out, he'd have had some kind of penalty.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by Underviewer »

flyboy10 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:I think this is the sort of speed of thought that someone like Schumacher and possibly Vettel would have had the mental capacity to work through in real time during the overtaking manoeuvre.
Yeah or other brilliant drivers like Alonso, Prost and Hamilton...

Seriously "mental capacity"? What a baseless criticism. How can you expect people take your opinion on incidents like this seriously when you post things like that?
Who am I criticising? I'm suggesting a possible course of action and I'm praising Schumacher and Vettel. If you want to see it as something else, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. Schumacher deliberately crashed into Damon Hill in 1994 to win the WDC because he was able to think quickly enough in the heat of the moment (with enough information in his head before the start of the race) about what it would mean to crash them both out, compared to just accepting that his car was damaged beyond repair. Ross Brawn often talked about a "capacity" that Michael had which other drivers just didn't have. I don't think many (if any with the exception of Vettel) has come along with a similar capacity.

That was the last race of the season. Schumacher had 92 points, Hill 91. Doesn't take someone with 'mental capacity' to figure out that if Hill didn't finish the race, Schumacher would win the championship. It's pretty obvious to anyone with a brain.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

sandman1347 wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:I think this is the sort of speed of thought that someone like Schumacher and possibly Vettel would have had the mental capacity to work through in real time during the overtaking manoeuvre.
Yeah or other brilliant drivers like Alonso, Prost and Hamilton...

Seriously "mental capacity"? What a baseless criticism. How can you expect people take your opinion on incidents like this seriously when you post things like that?
Who am I criticising? I'm suggesting a possible course of action and I'm praising Schumacher and Vettel. If you want to see it as something else, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. Schumacher deliberately crashed into Damon Hill in 1994 to win the WDC because he was able to think quickly enough in the heat of the moment (with enough information in his head before the start of the race) about what it would mean to crash them both out, compared to just accepting that his car was damaged beyond repair. Ross Brawn often talked about a "capacity" that Michael had which other drivers just didn't have. I don't think many (if any with the exception of Vettel) has come along with a similar capacity.
Can you just give it a rest please? We all get it. You don't like Lewis Hamilton. Pretty much all of your posts are about that. You'd like to see him disqualified for life or something. Enough is enough already. Your agenda is way too see-through.
There are others in this forum who are completely opposite, pro Hamilton to the Nth degree. In their eyes, he can do not wrong, and anyone who is perceived to do anything against Mr Hamilton should be banned, flogged, and deported. If you are truly impartial, then it is incumbent on you to also call those out, and criticize them for their bias.

In this world, people have different perceptions. Two people may view the same event, and draw different conclusions. They also have the right to free speech. If one disagrees, then please attack the post, not the poster.
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Re: Rosberg Vs Hamilton Spanish gp crash. The debate

Post by davidheath461 »

IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
wire2004 wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:Maybe this helps:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

The 4th image is the damming image for Nico. Lewis has his car alongside Nico. And Lewis is still in the track.
No he is not. He already has two wheels on the grass. The second image shows when he should have decided to back off or go wide. There was no room for another car there.
Second and third screen shots show Rosberg at fault by the letter of the regs. Front wing is alongside.
Haha, so Hamilton was at fault at Spa 2014?

Also, anyone can dive in by braking too late, hence getting the front wing alongside the rear wing, and hence they deserve space?
The rule only applies on straights, not on corners.

Hence dive bombing does not entitle you to any space.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by mikeyg123 »

Blinky McSquinty wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
flyboy10 wrote:I think this is the sort of speed of thought that someone like Schumacher and possibly Vettel would have had the mental capacity to work through in real time during the overtaking manoeuvre.
Yeah or other brilliant drivers like Alonso, Prost and Hamilton...

Seriously "mental capacity"? What a baseless criticism. How can you expect people take your opinion on incidents like this seriously when you post things like that?
Who am I criticising? I'm suggesting a possible course of action and I'm praising Schumacher and Vettel. If you want to see it as something else, then that says a lot more about you than it does about me. Schumacher deliberately crashed into Damon Hill in 1994 to win the WDC because he was able to think quickly enough in the heat of the moment (with enough information in his head before the start of the race) about what it would mean to crash them both out, compared to just accepting that his car was damaged beyond repair. Ross Brawn often talked about a "capacity" that Michael had which other drivers just didn't have. I don't think many (if any with the exception of Vettel) has come along with a similar capacity.
Can you just give it a rest please? We all get it. You don't like Lewis Hamilton. Pretty much all of your posts are about that. You'd like to see him disqualified for life or something. Enough is enough already. Your agenda is way too see-through.
There are others in this forum who are completely opposite, pro Hamilton to the Nth degree. In their eyes, he can do not wrong, and anyone who is perceived to do anything against Mr Hamilton should be banned, flogged, and deported. If you are truly impartial, then it is incumbent on you to also call those out, and criticize them for their bias.

In this world, people have different perceptions. Two people may view the same event, and draw different conclusions. They also have the right to free speech. If one disagrees, then please attack the post, not the poster.
Interesting though I haven't seen many on this thread. I'm not meaning anything else by that. Just that it is an interesting observation.

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Re: Rosberg Vs Hamilton Spanish gp crash. The debate

Post by davidheath461 »

mds wrote:
dizlexik wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
AravJ wrote:Lewis was never alongside nico. Nico had every right to take the inside line and not have to leave a cars width. Lewis closing speed was too fast and he tried to take avoiding action. Unfortunately he lost control on the grass. Racing incident.
By the definition of the regs he definitely was so lets try and move pass that.
Being alongside isn't enough. It's up to debate whether significant part of his car was.
Front wing alongside is significant.

Rosberg at fault.
Yet stewards decide to take no further action.

Perhaps this rule isn't as clear cut as you thought. ;)

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by pokerman »

I'm just wondering were Hamilton was supposed to go after Rosberg's mistake left him down 160hp, he knew that Hamilton would be right on him, he drifted to the middle of the track looking to see what Hamilton was going to do. Hamilton went to the right then Rosberg turned sharply to the right, when he did this were did he think Hamilton was going to go, at the point he turned right Hamilton was already on his gearbox and travelling at a much greater speed.

Hamilton had to go left or right to avoid hitting Rosberg's car, there wasn't enough room to the left so he went right, you see Rosberg's car drifting slowly to the right and then the minute he realises that Hamilton is going right he turns sharply right himself, I get a bit fed up how Rosberg turns the Mister Innocence card, he knows what he is doing.
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Re: Rosberg Vs Hamilton Spanish gp crash. The debate

Post by SnakeSVT2003 »

j man wrote:
SnakeSVT2003 wrote:
j man wrote:It'd be interesting to see how the timing of Rosberg's defensive move compares to Schumacher's much-criticised swipe at Barrichello in Hungary a few years back. I suspect they are not too far different...
They are very different. Barrichello did not crash into the pit wall.


As for this crash, Rosberg did what he should have done. So did Lewis. I have no idea who to blame, to be honest. Contact was inevitable in this situation.
I'd need to see the video again but from memory the manoeuvre itself was quite similar in its timing (I'll gladly back down if I'm wrong on this!). The difference was that Barrichello slammed the brakes on while Hamilton kept his foot in. Surely that shouldn't change whether what the defending driver did was correct or not?.

Of course Rosberg had every right to move across the track in that situation but in this instance he needed to do it sooner. Hamilton needing to be alongside may be the letter of the law but I feel you also need to take into account the speed differential as this has a massive bearing on how committed the attacking driver is to the overtaking move. In my view moving to the edge of the track when the driver behind is already committed to the move (thus forcing him to slam on the brakes on a straight to avoid contact) is highly dangerous driving and should be criticised as heavily as Schumacher was that day.
Barrichello kept his foot in, too. He passed Schumacher with that manouvre. Schumacher was aggressive but did ultimately leave space.

The only instance I can think of that was similar to this was in 2003, when Schumacher put Alonso onto the grass on the Hangar straight in Silverstone. That time, Alonso backed off.
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Re: Rosberg Vs Hamilton Spanish gp crash. The debate

Post by Juans Girl »

davidheath461 wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
kleefton wrote:[quote="wire2004

The 4th image is the damming image for Nico. Lewis has his car alongside Nico. And Lewis is still in the track.
No he is not. He already has two wheels on the grass. The second image shows when he should have decided to back off or go wide. There was no room for another car there.
Second and third screen shots show Rosberg at fault by the letter of the regs. Front wing is alongside.
Haha, so Hamilton was at fault at Spa 2014?

Also, anyone can dive in by braking too late, hence getting the front wing alongside the rear wing, and hence they deserve space?


Last time I checked they were on the straight... half the posts on this thread are treating it like it was a late braking dive into a corner, which it was not

I would say this one was 50/50, though if I had to apportion any blame it would have to lean slightly to Rosberg.

Lauda's comments on Sky where he apportioned blame on Hamilton (and the reasons behind it) were beyond ludicrous. He's had a thing against Hamilton from day 1. If he can't treat the two drivers equally, rather than constantly defending his buddy Keke's blue eyed boy, he should keep his trap shut

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Re: Rosberg Vs Hamilton Spanish gp crash. The debate

Post by TheDazster »

Juans Girl wrote: Lauda's comments on Sky where he apportioned blame on Hamilton (and the reasons behind it) were beyond ludicrous. He's had a thing against Hamilton from day 1. If he can't treat the two drivers equally, rather than constantly defending his buddy Keke's blue eyed boy, he should keep his trap shut
I don't agree with Lauda in this case but to say he's got it in for Hamilton is ludicrous.

Also interesting that Ricciardo feels Rosberg didn't leave Hamilton enough room. He had a pretty good view.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by PRFAN »

Voted none

BUT.............

I will give Rosberg more % of the blame for lack of a better word, let say I think he should have give way as a result of HIS mistake. It was due to a bad setting on the car that Hamilton was able to close. In my view he was a little inmature in his reaction to seing Hamilton passing.

Rosberg made a mistake at the start that allowed for the speed difference, he was late to correct and late to defend, maybe Hamilton was agressive attacking but Rosberg was super agressive defending. No wrong setting, no way for Hamilton to get close, to me it is in this situations were the mature racer vs the belingerent kid shows, I think a mature racer would have not blocked in such way, rather concede the spot and come back. I agree with the statement from Pokerman.

This in my view is why Mercedes instructed both to keep shut to the press, they cant blame HAM for racing but at the same time will not shove Nico under the bus and say "he was slower due to himself". Something Arrivavene would have done (Kimi got confused with his fingers at the start deal)it all about positive PR, THUS "we will go with the stwards say", Merc Management know what happened, look at both Nico and Ham interview and the body language from both, Ham looks much more relaxed, Nico is a bit more defensive, I think the blocking days for Nico are over.

lamo

Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by lamo »

They both lost nothing today, essentially. Hamilton actually had his best weekend all season, in the first 4 races he lost points to Nico. This race he lost none. Hamilton now has 16 races instead of 17 (no difference basically) he also now has one less race distance to stretch his engines too.

If we are talking about who lost more it is tricky, but I would say Rosberg, see the "driver ahead after first turns thread" to see who wins once the first few corners are over. As soon as Nico swept around the outside at T1, I immediately said, Lewis has lost this one...50 points now...

Got to love the drama, roll on Monaco :-P

lamo

Re: Rosberg Vs Hamilton Spanish gp crash. The debate

Post by lamo »

Perhaps this rule isn't as clear cut as you thought. ;)[/quote]

It isn't, if its team mates the rule book goes out the window. I can not remember a single action between an incident between team mates. Can anybody else?

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by oz_karter »

The way I see it is...

Nico was quite slow out of the previous corner and deliberately moved in front of Lewis to cover off the inside.

Lewis kept moving over trying to put his car in an ever-closing gap and chose the grass over moving to the outside (where I believe he could have made the pass given the speed difference).

I think Lewis shoulders the blame here as he is the one who took his car off the black stuff and got out of shape. It's correct to say Nico didn't leave enough room, but that is not ultimately what caused contact - it was Lewis' decision to keep moving over on to the green stuff.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by z06mike »

pokerman wrote:I'm just wondering were Hamilton was supposed to go after Rosberg's mistake left him down 160hp, he knew that Hamilton would be right on him, he drifted to the middle of the track looking to see what Hamilton was going to do. Hamilton went to the right then Rosberg turned sharply to the right, when he did this were did he think Hamilton was going to go, at the point he turned right Hamilton was already on his gearbox and travelling at a much greater speed.

Hamilton had to go left or right to avoid hitting Rosberg's car, there wasn't enough room to the left so he went right, you see Rosberg's car drifting slowly to the right and then the minute he realises that Hamilton is going right he turns sharply right himself, I get a bit fed up how Rosberg turns the Mister Innocence card, he knows what he is doing.
You hit the nail right on the head, Nico knew exactly what he was doing!! I am not a fan of Hamilton, but without a doubt this was 100% Nico's fault and he got away with it. He screwed up and pushed Lewis off the track. I really he believe he thought it would kill Lewis' race and he would drive off into the sunset and it backfired on him. I really can't stand how immature Nico is when Lewis is beating him!

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by Warheart01 »

Racing incident. These things happen.

Hamilton went for a gap that was there, but that was slamed shut too fast. Nico was in the wrong enginemode and knew he was much slower and should not have closed the gap that fast with the speed Lewis had, it was dangerous. Both are at fault, for me Rosberg made a bit of a dirty move and it's not the first time with a maneuver like this.
Either way, it's racing and they both walked away with only their ego hurt.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by Covalent »

Racing incident but more Lewis' fault. As many others have stated he was going for an ever diminishing gap and could have easily avoided going off the track, all he needed to do was go to the left or lift off a bit. It was literally a double facepalm moment by him, confirmed by Lauda afterwords.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by Pullrod »

ROS/HAM (80/20)
After what we saw in the race with Raikkonen and Ricciardo unable to overtake who was ahead but slower, Hamilton did the right thing.
But there are few things I want to add:

1. The cars are supposed to start using the "race start" power unit map but for some reason Rosberg was in the "wrong" mode which gives you the ability to extract more power from the battery unlike the RS mode which lasts 90 seconds after the start. I am not even sure he was using the Brake bias they usually use at the start. It is really suspicious because it happens here in Barcelona where position is king. is it possible that Rosberg with all his trips at the factory(with his engineers) knows something Hamilton doesn't? Kudos to Nico, he is very good at making his antics look like honest mistakes(Monaco 2014).

2. I was really impressed by Hamilton today because as soon as he realized the move would not work, he went to the grass to AVOID a collision with Rosberg and was ready to DNF as a result. If he was malicious he would have simply stayed on the track and crashed with Nico like Nico did in Spa 2014(or Vettel in Turkey 2010 with Webber).


This crash is a blessing in disguise for Hamilton because after Nico taking the lead after T1, his deficit would have been 50 points and the Mercedes team can now clarify about this "wrong" mode Rosberg was using. Oh.. and this consecutive wins record hype will stop now. Bring on Monaco.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by kleefton »

Pullrod wrote:ROS/HAM (80/20)



This crash is a blessing in disguise for Hamilton because after Nico taking the lead after T1, his deficit would have been 50 points and the Mercedes team can now clarify about this "wrong" mode Rosberg was using. Oh.. and this consecutive wins record hype will stop now. Bring on Monaco.
I completely disagree. Lewis has got a major problem in his hands when it comes to Nico. Everyone forgets to mention that this crash was only possible because Nico passed Lewis in turn one. Nico has passed him in turn one 3 times out of 5 races. That is a problem. Today Lewis had the better start but Nico still easily outbraked him in turn one and took the lead. There is no way Lewis won't be thinking about it the next time. Like," what must I do to keep this guy behind me in turn 1?" would be what he will be thinking about.

I am pretty disgusted with Lewis's race craft at the moment to be honest. He has been clumsy and overly agressive. Morever today he was very tentative in turn one. That will not get the job done this year. Mercedes from what I have seen is not going to stop Nico from racing like that. It is time for Lewis to improve his race craft.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by Pullrod »

kleefton wrote:
Pullrod wrote:ROS/HAM (80/20)



This crash is a blessing in disguise for Hamilton because after Nico taking the lead after T1, his deficit would have been 50 points and the Mercedes team can now clarify about this "wrong" mode Rosberg was using. Oh.. and this consecutive wins record hype will stop now. Bring on Monaco.
I completely disagree. Lewis has got a major problem in his hands when it comes to Nico. Everyone forgets to mention that this crash was only possible because Nico passed Lewis in turn one. Nico has passed him in turn one 3 times out of 5 races. That is a problem. Today Lewis had the better start but Nico still easily outbraked him in turn one and took the lead. There is no way Lewis won't be thinking about it the next time. Like," what must I do to keep this guy behind me in turn 1?" would be what he will be thinking about.

I am pretty disgusted with Lewis's race craft at the moment to be honest. He has been clumsy and overly agressive. Morever today he was very tentative in turn one. That will not get the job done this year. Mercedes from what I have seen is not going to stop Nico from racing like that. It is time for Lewis to improve his race craft.

What we saw is that Rosberg is more willing than Hamilton to crash but I see what you mean.
Hamilton as been extracautious also in China and as a result he was hitted by Nasr. It is simpy not his style and he doesn't know how to do it. I prefer the Lewis who crashed today to the temptative we often saw at the starts. May be he should ditch the extra cautious starts and go banzai.

We are not even sure Rosberg was using the brake bias(with all the settings associated to help in this phase) they usually use at the start. It seemed like he was in racing mode.
I think there is something Rosberg and his engineers do at the start.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by Covalent »

Pullrod wrote:I think there is something Rosberg and his engineers do at the start.
Clever cheating b@stard, they do something at the start. Do something!!

Won't someone think of the children?

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Re: Rosberg Vs Hamilton Spanish gp crash. The debate

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

flyboy10 wrote:So, what I'm having trouble with even feeling like it needs to be discussed is, what is it that Rosberg should have done differently? He's made a fantastic start and is leading on the first lap of the grand prix and he decides to take a very early and tight line for the right hander (because I suspect that he knows Hamilton is trying to lunge up the inside - big in his mirrors) so he shuts the door into the corner. is he supposed to just leave a gap for his title rival to go up the inside? Before anyone answers that, read the regs on when you DO have to leave a cars width. It isn't all the time! Drivers are allowed one move to defend but must leave a cars width if they then move back across the track to take the line for the corner.
Everything you wrote goes against what my eyes witnessed. The fact is that Rosberg saw Hamilton coming faster than he was and knew there we nothing he could do to stop it and decided to cut all the way across the track and blatantly shut the door in an attempt to scare Hamilton into braking and pulling out of the attempt. Rosberg misjudged Lewis' speed and by the time he got all the way over HE LEFT NO ROOM AT ALL, WHATSOEVER.

The normal line is all the way to the left and drivers try and take the line as Lewis did to try and get a run on the guy ahead to make the pass on the inside. Rosberg bailed on his line when he realized Lewis was shooting down the inside and made a desperate attempt to block.

I have always been steadfast on talking up Nico's awareness and ability and this is one instance where he simply screwed the pooch in the worst way. He's got a solid lead in the championship and he could have coasted to 2nd and extended that lead even farther but his disdain for being bested by Lewis got the best of him here and it ended in disaster for him, Lewis and the team. I hat got demoted for incidental contact with his teammate and someone lifting on him in a hard acceleration zone resulting in an almost brake check and he ran into a rival driver for a 2nd time. Nico committed the greatest cardinal sin of racing today, period. There's no way anyone can say otherwise if they're looking at the video of the incident from all angles. Put yourself in Hamilton's shoes... I bet you'd be just as tiddled off and disgusted as he was, and if you say you wouldn't, you'd be lying.

He deserves a grid place penalty and points on his super license and I'm sure the team realizes this and I hope they curb his attitude. With his contract coming up at the end of the year, he just might have bought himself a first class ticket out of Mercedes.
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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by Pullrod »

Covalent wrote:
Pullrod wrote:I think there is something Rosberg and his engineers do at the start.
Clever cheating b@stard, they do something at the start. Do something!!

Won't someone think of the children?
?????

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by LKS1 »

IMO Lewis thought Nico would move out of his way rather than risk a crash - but Nico has learned that he's the only one playing the 'team sport' game and is no longer prepared to back off from these types of tactics from his team mate.

Its up to the driver trying to overtake (again, IMO) to ensure a 'clean' overtake, and with Nico 'closing the door' before Lewis had anything like a significant portion of his car alongside - it was down to Lewis to back off. He didn't, went on the grass, slid, and consequently took out his team mate.

Lewis misread the situation - he thought Nico would back down and he realised too late that this was not going to happen.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by rivf1 »

Good to see the vote of None winning here. It was a racing incident, these things happen.

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by LKS1 »

rivf1 wrote:Good to see the vote of None winning here. It was a racing incident, these things happen.
Even more interesting to see that several people think Nico should have received a race ban for the accident, whereas only a couple think Lewis should have received a race ban.

A bit odd, as although most think it was a racing incident, far more voted for a 10 place grid penalty for Lewis than the other way around! 8O :lol:

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by rivf1 »

LKS1 wrote:
rivf1 wrote:Good to see the vote of None winning here. It was a racing incident, these things happen.
Even more interesting to see that several people think Nico should have received a race ban for the accident, whereas only a couple think Lewis should have received a race ban.

A bit odd, as although most think it was a racing incident, far more voted for a 10 place grid penalty for Lewis than the other way around! 8O :lol:
I think you will find the poll really reads like this:

1)Lewis fan or Nico hater
2)Lewis fan
3)Neutral
4)Nico Fan
5)Nico Fan or Lewis hater

:lol: :lol:

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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by Worldchampion »


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Re: Rosberg V Hamilton Crash Debate/Poll [MERGED]

Post by fieldstvl »

If you put all the current field in both Rosberg's position and Hamilton's position, I suspect far more would do what Hamilton did than would do what Rosberg did.

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