RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

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red_alert
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RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by red_alert »

With the much touted Vestappen going to the main RedBull team I have this all too familiar feeling.

Redbull are known for their favouritism and with Vestappen on a Multi year contract moving to the main team and Ricciardo off contract, do you feel Vestappen will be their new 'man' and Ricciardo will be given less priority/made no.2? Similar to that of Vettel to Webber.

I wouldn't be at all surprised is Ricciardo car stops due to a 'problem' and Vestappen grabs the podium, then the hype is real and precedent for them to lessen Ricciardo's worth.

Thoughts?
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Black_Flag_11
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Nonsense. Max will have to prove himself against their current star driver Ricciardo. He's clearly a promising future prospect but he's not their 'man' yet, he will have to earn it like Vettel and Ricciardo did.

They believe in Max for the future that much is clear, but they are not going to tie one hand behind their back by not giving their current star driver the equipment he needs.
Last edited by Black_Flag_11 on Thu May 12, 2016 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by Jezza13 »

That crossed my mind as well.

Ricciardo is the new Webber and Verstappen is the new Vettel.

The difference is though is that, like Verstappen, Ricciardo is also a product of RB's young driver program, where Webber was not. I also have not seen or heard any indication that Marko favors one over the other.

The thing that worries me is the background politics that may go on with daddy Verstappi & Marko. I get the impression, and I have no evidence to back this up, that Ricciardo's one weakness maybe his off track political savvy. He just comes across as a no BS bloke who just wants to drive the wheels off his cars.

Lets face it though, Ricciardo is a demon in the car and, unlike Webber, has WC written all over him. He has shown this race after race. I don't think he has anything to worry about at the moment though I would'nt be surprised see Webber vs Vettel II.
Last edited by Jezza13 on Thu May 12, 2016 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by rivf1 »

Jezza13 wrote:That crossed my mind as well.

Ricciardo is the new Webber and Verstappen is the new Vettel.

The difference is though is that, like Vestappen, Ricciardo is also a product of RB's young driver program, where Webber was not. I also have not seen or heard any indication that Marko favors one over the other.

The thing that worries me is the background politics that may go on with daddy Vestappi & Marko. I get the impression, and I have no evidence to back this up, that Ricciardo's one weakness maybe his off track political savvy. He just comes across as a no BS bloke who just wants to drive the wheels off his cars.

Lets face it though, Ricciardo is a demon in the car and, unlike Webber, has WC written all over him. He has shown this race after race. I don't think he has anything to worry about at the moment though I would'nt be surprised see Webber vs Vettel II.
Wow another doggies supporter, didn't expect to find one on this site :D

Yeah the background politics will definitely play there part with daddy verstappen in there inflating his son's already massive sense of entitlement complex.

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by Jezza13 »

rivf1 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:That crossed my mind as well.

Ricciardo is the new Webber and Verstappen is the new Vettel.

The difference is though is that, like Vestappen, Ricciardo is also a product of RB's young driver program, where Webber was not. I also have not seen or heard any indication that Marko favors one over the other.

The thing that worries me is the background politics that may go on with daddy Vestappi & Marko. I get the impression, and I have no evidence to back this up, that Ricciardo's one weakness maybe his off track political savvy. He just comes across as a no BS bloke who just wants to drive the wheels off his cars.

Lets face it though, Ricciardo is a demon in the car and, unlike Webber, has WC written all over him. He has shown this race after race. I don't think he has anything to worry about at the moment though I would'nt be surprised see Webber vs Vettel II.
Wow another doggies supporter, didn't expect to find one on this site :D

Yeah the background politics will definitely play there part with daddy verstappen in there inflating his son's already massive sense of entitlement complex.
You'll find everything on this site mate :lol: .

Hopefully an easy training run against the Tigers this weekend.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by mds »

red_alert wrote: Redbull are known for their favouritism
Yeah, that's why they told their 3-time WDC to hold station in Malaysia 2013.

Webber had his chances, was given the chances, and never capitalized. That wasn't on Red Bull's "favouritism", it was rather despite their policy of actually letting Webber and Vettel race.

I don't see why it would be different now.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Webber and Ricciardo are both Australian.

And that is about where the similarities end.

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by rivf1 »

Jezza13 wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:That crossed my mind as well.

Ricciardo is the new Webber and Verstappen is the new Vettel.

The difference is though is that, like Vestappen, Ricciardo is also a product of RB's young driver program, where Webber was not. I also have not seen or heard any indication that Marko favors one over the other.

The thing that worries me is the background politics that may go on with daddy Vestappi & Marko. I get the impression, and I have no evidence to back this up, that Ricciardo's one weakness maybe his off track political savvy. He just comes across as a no BS bloke who just wants to drive the wheels off his cars.

Lets face it though, Ricciardo is a demon in the car and, unlike Webber, has WC written all over him. He has shown this race after race. I don't think he has anything to worry about at the moment though I would'nt be surprised see Webber vs Vettel II.
Wow another doggies supporter, didn't expect to find one on this site :D

Yeah the background politics will definitely play there part with daddy verstappen in there inflating his son's already massive sense of entitlement complex.
You'll find everything on this site mate :lol: .

Hopefully an easy training run against the Tigers this weekend.
Haha how awesome and off topic is this, hopefully the boys put in a better second half than against the cheating eels :D

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by Zoue »

My first thought is Red Bull aren't known for their favouritism. Webber was continually beaten because he just wasn't good enough, not because of anything Red Bull did.

If Ricciardo's the new Webber why was he "allowed" to beat Vettel? There's a whacking great hole in the favouritism theory right there. Or was Vettel somehow no longer favourite as they were bored with him winning titles?

Both Red Bull drivers have an equal chance to succeed. It's possible that over time they may focus attention more on a driver who consistently performs and delivers results, but then again that will be down to the driver himself, just like it was with Vettel and Webber. Ricciardo's already shown himself to be more than adequate and I doubt he'll be worried about whoever's in the other seat.

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by nixxxon »

mikeyg123 wrote:Webber and Ricciardo are both Australian.

And that is about where the similarities end.
Agree... They are different drivers. Webber was great in qualy, not so great in race pace. Ricciardo is the complete opposite I'd say.
Also Ricciardo is better overall than Webber ever was (quote from Mark himself)

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by ALESI »

As far as this goes I can see no reason for RB to 'hinder' DR at all. I can see the argument that MS had better opportunities at Ferrari, because Michael was the 'superstar' of F1 and there was possibly a financial advantage to keeping him winning, not that I think he needed much help against the team mates he had. But as it stands, what possible advantage is there to possibly promote Max over Ricciardo, especially as we don't even know yet how they will compare.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by moby »

red_alert wrote:With the much touted Vestappen going to the main RedBull team I have this all too familiar feeling.

Redbull are known for their favouritism and with Vestappen on a Multi year contract moving to the main team and Ricciardo off contract, do you feel Vestappen will be their new 'man' and Ricciardo will be given less priority/made no.2? Similar to that of Vettel to Webber.

I wouldn't be at all surprised is Ricciardo car stops due to a 'problem' and Vestappen grabs the podium, then the hype is real and precedent for them to lessen Ricciardo's worth.

Thoughts?

I was composing a reply to this, and decided the easiest and most succinct reply would be-

yes

:] (but without the sabotage)

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by F1Oz »

Ricciardo is younger, is one of the best (if not the best) qualifiers on the grid (Verstappen I don't think is quite the same - whereas Vettel was) and I think as others have said, Marko was always wanting to tout the benefits of his driver development program - which Webber was not part of but DR was.

DR has proven himself a winner and I expect he'll show that verstappen still has some development to do to get to the really pointy end of the driver market

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by pokerman »

nixxxon wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Webber and Ricciardo are both Australian.

And that is about where the similarities end.
Agree... They are different drivers. Webber was great in qualy, not so great in race pace. Ricciardo is the complete opposite I'd say.
Also Ricciardo is better overall than Webber ever was (quote from Mark himself)
Ricciardo is actually a better qualifier than Webber as well.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by pokerman »

F1Oz wrote:Ricciardo is younger, is one of the best (if not the best) qualifiers on the grid (Verstappen I don't think is quite the same - whereas Vettel was) and I think as others have said, Marko was always wanting to tout the benefits of his driver development program - which Webber was not part of but DR was.

DR has proven himself a winner and I expect he'll show that verstappen still has some development to do to get to the really pointy end of the driver market
Verstappen is actually not a product of the Red Bull young driver program whereas Ricciardo very much is.

I think we saw with Vettel and Ricciardo that there is no actual favouritism that goes on that undermines one driver or the other.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by Randine »

red_alert wrote:With the much touted Vestappen going to the main RedBull team I have this all too familiar feeling.

Redbull are known for their favouritism and with Vestappen on a Multi year contract moving to the main team and Ricciardo off contract, do you feel Vestappen will be their new 'man' and Ricciardo will be given less priority/made no.2? Similar to that of Vettel to Webber.

I wouldn't be at all surprised is Ricciardo car stops due to a 'problem' and Vestappen grabs the podium, then the hype is real and precedent for them to lessen Ricciardo's worth.

Thoughts?
It depends on how close the drivers are. If Ric is considerably faster than Max then they will want to hold onto him as much as possible for next year as it will be obvious that Ric > Max > Sainz & Kvyat.

If Ric's gap is massive over Max then that causes problems as Marko has to admit he made a mistake ripping Kvyat from his seat.

I think if Ric/Max are comparable they may swing it in Max's favour just so Marko looks like a god for the switch and he also collects a bigger Xmas bonus when they sign Ric for a song for next year.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by F1Oz »

if RBR're only willing to pay DR 'a song' Randine - then Ferrari et al might just snaffle him as it appears RBR only have a 1 year option on DR (not a firm signing) and he isn't on much so their compensation wouldn't be that much, DR has proven he can put a car beyond its performance level - and win - does RBR really want that against them?

The issue is that Verstappen has every excuse if he doesn't do that well (at least till the half way mark of the season) and if the car is now going to be better just as Verstappen joins (e.g. with engine upgrade and benefit of input from DR and DK) - while DK has to go to Torro Rosso as it's engine becomes less of a factor and others go past - it helps Verstappen and hinders Kyvat and CS.

Still, if DR completely blows Verstappen away for a significant number of races - it won't be in Verstappen's interest

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by Blinky McSquinty »

red_alert wrote:With the much touted Vestappen going to the main RedBull team I have this all too familiar feeling.

Redbull are known for their favouritism and with Vestappen on a Multi year contract moving to the main team and Ricciardo off contract, do you feel Vestappen will be their new 'man' and Ricciardo will be given less priority/made no.2? Similar to that of Vettel to Webber.

I wouldn't be at all surprised is Ricciardo car stops due to a 'problem' and Vestappen grabs the podium, then the hype is real and precedent for them to lessen Ricciardo's worth.

Thoughts?
Just how can Red Bull lessen Ricciardo's worth? A mechanical DNF will somehow fool all the other teams into ignoring years of data on the man?

The reality is that Ricciard is not only one of the hottest items in the driver market, but he is presently the benchmark for all of Red Bull's racing efforts. Just like Jackie Stewart at Tyrrell, or Jimmy Clark at Lotus, or Michael Schumacher at Ferrari, he is the man who can get the job done.

Another harsh reality at Red Bull is that politics and favoritism only gets you to the starting line. In order to claim the prize, you must prove yourself on the track.

And going by Red Bull's recent statements in reaction to the rumors Ricciardo may move to Ferrari, he is under a watertight contract to the end of 2017 and they don't want to let him go.

And even if this scenario plays out as you imagined, it may lessen Ricciardo's worth to Red Bull, but other teams would snatch him up and pay Ricciardo a lot more than he is presently earning at Red Bull.

Every team spend many millions and ask their employees to put in brutal hours and conditions just so they can put the best car and the best driver on the starting line for each race. And they are going to toss that away for ...... what?
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by nixxxon »

pokerman wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Webber and Ricciardo are both Australian.

And that is about where the similarities end.
Agree... They are different drivers. Webber was great in qualy, not so great in race pace. Ricciardo is the complete opposite I'd say.
Also Ricciardo is better overall than Webber ever was (quote from Mark himself)
Ricciardo is actually a better qualifier than Webber as well.
Not sure about that... Ricciardo used to get outqualified by Vettel in 2014 more often than not, IIRC.

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by POBRatings »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Nonsense. Max will have to prove himself against their current star driver Ricciardo. He's clearly a promising future prospect but he's not their 'man' yet, he will have to earn it like Vettel and Ricciardo did.

They believe in Max for the future that much is clear, but they are not going to tie one hand behind their back by not giving their current star driver the equipment he needs.
:thumbup:

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by mikeyg123 »

nixxxon wrote:
pokerman wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Webber and Ricciardo are both Australian.

And that is about where the similarities end.
Agree... They are different drivers. Webber was great in qualy, not so great in race pace. Ricciardo is the complete opposite I'd say.
Also Ricciardo is better overall than Webber ever was (quote from Mark himself)
Ricciardo is actually a better qualifier than Webber as well.
Not sure about that... Ricciardo used to get outqualified by Vettel in 2014 more often than not, IIRC.
I'm afraid you don't remember correctly. A fairly comprehensive 12-7 to Ricciardo.

Ricciardo has thrashed all of his team mates in Quali. Possibly the best on the grid over a single lap ATM.

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by nixxxon »

mikeyg123 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
pokerman wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Webber and Ricciardo are both Australian.

And that is about where the similarities end.
Agree... They are different drivers. Webber was great in qualy, not so great in race pace. Ricciardo is the complete opposite I'd say.
Also Ricciardo is better overall than Webber ever was (quote from Mark himself)
Ricciardo is actually a better qualifier than Webber as well.
Not sure about that... Ricciardo used to get outqualified by Vettel in 2014 more often than not, IIRC.
I'm afraid you don't remember correctly. A fairly comprehensive 12-7 to Ricciardo.

Ricciardo has thrashed all of his team mates in Quali. Possibly the best on the grid over a single lap ATM.
oops... well, then if thats the case, then yes, I did not remember correctly (IDNRC) :-P
Probably because I remember several times Ricciardo outpacing and passing Vettel in the races because he had more race pace.

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by pokerman »

mikeyg123 wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
pokerman wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Webber and Ricciardo are both Australian.

And that is about where the similarities end.
Agree... They are different drivers. Webber was great in qualy, not so great in race pace. Ricciardo is the complete opposite I'd say.
Also Ricciardo is better overall than Webber ever was (quote from Mark himself)
Ricciardo is actually a better qualifier than Webber as well.
Not sure about that... Ricciardo used to get outqualified by Vettel in 2014 more often than not, IIRC.
I'm afraid you don't remember correctly. A fairly comprehensive 12-7 to Ricciardo.

Ricciardo has thrashed all of his team mates in Quali. Possibly the best on the grid over a single lap ATM.
Yep pretty much sums it up :thumbup:
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

ALESI wrote:As far as this goes I can see no reason for RB to 'hinder' DR at all. I can see the argument that MS had better opportunities at Ferrari, because Michael was the 'superstar' of F1 and there was possibly a financial advantage to keeping him winning, not that I think he needed much help against the team mates he had. But as it stands, what possible advantage is there to possibly promote Max over Ricciardo, especially as we don't even know yet how they will compare.
While I agree with you, it bugs me to see people write off ALL of Michael's teammates because in at least 2 seasons Rubens was stellar and were it not for Politics he'd have given Michael a run for his money and possibly bested him. Every other one of his teammates I'd agree were nowhere near his caliber, but Ruby-Ruby-Rubaaaaay! was one helluva driver. Sorry I'll never get that damn jingle out of my head! :lol:
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by POBRatings »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
ALESI wrote:As far as this goes I can see no reason for RB to 'hinder' DR at all. I can see the argument that MS had better opportunities at Ferrari, because Michael was the 'superstar' of F1 and there was possibly a financial advantage to keeping him winning, not that I think he needed much help against the team mates he had. But as it stands, what possible advantage is there to possibly promote Max over Ricciardo, especially as we don't even know yet how they will compare.
While I agree with you, it bugs me to see people write off ALL of Michael's teammates because in at least 2 seasons Rubens was stellar and were it not for Politics he'd have given Michael a run for his money and possibly bested him. Every other one of his teammates I'd agree were nowhere near his caliber, but Ruby-Ruby-Rubaaaaay! was one helluva driver. Sorry I'll never get that damn jingle out of my head! :lol:
You are right about Rubens, imo. I think words are too crude and comparisons blunt, when talking driver-vs-driver. Recenly Coulthard told that he was surprised to discover how much Hakkinen respected him! How close Coulthard and Barrichello were to their 'number ones' is not reflected in verbal-written opinions/comparisons. Just as with Hamilton and Rosberg, Lewis fans downgrade Nico's competitiveness. Great drivers at their best are seldom more than a tenth or so faster than rivals/good team-mates. Barrichello at Ferrari 2002-2004 was about as close to MSC as Rosberg has been to Hamilton lately, or Brooks was to Moss in 1958, or young Moss to Fangio in 1955.

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by F1 MERCENARY »

While I grew to become a Hamilton fan, I was not initially, BUT, I ALWAYS spoke to Nico's ability and is why to this day I have no doubt his "mistake" in Monaco was a calculated tactic. He is far too precise a driver and rarely makes mistakes like that, much less on a track he is likely more familiar with than any other driver. While I find Lewis has that little bit more speed and ability, Nico is most definitely a machine and his biggest asset is his quick thinking. He is able to assess things and make decisions incredibly quickly, and it was thanks to that ability that he avoided a big wreck with Ricciardo kamikaze-ing his way down the inside from much too far back. I was blown away by nick's awareness in that moment to see him just a few hundredths of a second into his turn in and corrected left to avoid the contact. THAT was an amazing piece of driver ability.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by mikeyg123 »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:While I grew to become a Hamilton fan, I was not initially, BUT, I ALWAYS spoke to Nico's ability and is why to this day I have no doubt his "mistake" in Monaco was a calculated tactic. He is far too precise a driver and rarely makes mistakes like that, much less on a track he is likely more familiar with than any other driver. While I find Lewis has that little bit more speed and ability, Nico is most definitely a machine and his biggest asset is his quick thinking. He is able to assess things and make decisions incredibly quickly, and it was thanks to that ability that he avoided a big wreck with Ricciardo kamikaze-ing his way down the inside from much too far back. I was blown away by nick's awareness in that moment to see him just a few hundredths of a second into his turn in and corrected left to avoid the contact. THAT was an amazing piece of driver ability.
Didn't they make contact when Rosberg tried to crowed him off the road. I disagree all you say above apart from the bit about Monaco. Rosberg is far from "machine" like and he is known to make mistakes under pressure especially on the brakes.

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by -ZeroGravityToilet- »

Zoue wrote:My first thought is Red Bull aren't known for their favouritism. Webber was continually beaten because he just wasn't good enough, not because of anything Red Bull did.

If Ricciardo's the new Webber why was he "allowed" to beat Vettel? There's a whacking great hole in the favouritism theory right there. Or was Vettel somehow no longer favourite as they were bored with him winning titles?

Both Red Bull drivers have an equal chance to succeed. It's possible that over time they may focus attention more on a driver who consistently performs and delivers results, but then again that will be down to the driver himself, just like it was with Vettel and Webber. Ricciardo's already shown himself to be more than adequate and I doubt he'll be worried about whoever's in the other seat.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by mikeyg123 »

-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:
Zoue wrote:My first thought is Red Bull aren't known for their favouritism. Webber was continually beaten because he just wasn't good enough, not because of anything Red Bull did.

If Ricciardo's the new Webber why was he "allowed" to beat Vettel? There's a whacking great hole in the favouritism theory right there. Or was Vettel somehow no longer favourite as they were bored with him winning titles?

Both Red Bull drivers have an equal chance to succeed. It's possible that over time they may focus attention more on a driver who consistently performs and delivers results, but then again that will be down to the driver himself, just like it was with Vettel and Webber. Ricciardo's already shown himself to be more than adequate and I doubt he'll be worried about whoever's in the other seat.
Turkey 2010 puts the end to the thought of RBR equality...
So explain Malaysia 2013....

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by Zoue »

-ZeroGravityToilet- wrote:
Zoue wrote:My first thought is Red Bull aren't known for their favouritism. Webber was continually beaten because he just wasn't good enough, not because of anything Red Bull did.

If Ricciardo's the new Webber why was he "allowed" to beat Vettel? There's a whacking great hole in the favouritism theory right there. Or was Vettel somehow no longer favourite as they were bored with him winning titles?

Both Red Bull drivers have an equal chance to succeed. It's possible that over time they may focus attention more on a driver who consistently performs and delivers results, but then again that will be down to the driver himself, just like it was with Vettel and Webber. Ricciardo's already shown himself to be more than adequate and I doubt he'll be worried about whoever's in the other seat.
Turkey 2010 puts the end to the thought of RBR equality...
Conspiracy theorists would like to think so, but the reality is that Webber always had equal opportunity but was just not good enough.

Those who insist Webber's failure to take the fight to Vettel was down to some mythical favouritism simply can't accept their man failed to make the most of the opportunities he was given. Vettel was better than Webber. That's it.

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by purchville »

Zoue wrote:My first thought is Red Bull aren't known for their favouritism. Webber was continually beaten because he just wasn't good enough, not because of anything Red Bull did.

If Ricciardo's the new Webber why was he "allowed" to beat Vettel? There's a whacking great hole in the favouritism theory right there. Or was Vettel somehow no longer favourite as they were bored with him winning titles?

Both Red Bull drivers have an equal chance to succeed. It's possible that over time they may focus attention more on a driver who consistently performs and delivers results, but then again that will be down to the driver himself, just like it was with Vettel and Webber. Ricciardo's already shown himself to be more than adequate and I doubt he'll be worried about whoever's in the other seat.
I think Webber is the wrong comparison. I do have a (unsubstantiated) feeling that Marko will try to push new boy Verstappen within the team more than the established one (RIC). He has talked VES up so much (the next Senna-level driver, once in a generation etc etc.) that failure would amount to a whole lot of egg-on-face.

Off course drivers of the same team do have the same chance to succeed - in theory. In practice we know that there are little things which are not done the same. They have different engineers for a start. Plus I can't help but think, given the rumours of pitlane turmoil at STR recently, that Daddy VES will be there at the shoulder of the RBR hierarchy barking instructions...and Marko and Horner (especially Horner) will not intervene in this. Ricciardo does not have an aggressive, aspirational ex-F1 father at his side, but he does have the talent to counter all of this.

Time will tell I guess whether it plays out this way...and whether the STR pit lane antics are a prelude to even more at RBR.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by pendulumeffect »

Max Verstappen hasn't won anything in F1 yet. Unless he hits the ground running at Red Bull he will be on the scrapheap within 2-3 seasons.

If he is the new Vettel Then DR will be rubbing his hands with glee because Vettel got blown away by DR let's not forget.

I think Max is fast but he doesn't smile enough or have a charasmatic personality like Riccardo Hamilton Vettel Alonso etc.

I think Riccardo will beat Max. But if Max wins then he is obviously a real talent.

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by pokerman »

F1 MERCENARY wrote:While I grew to become a Hamilton fan, I was not initially, BUT, I ALWAYS spoke to Nico's ability and is why to this day I have no doubt his "mistake" in Monaco was a calculated tactic. He is far too precise a driver and rarely makes mistakes like that, much less on a track he is likely more familiar with than any other driver. While I find Lewis has that little bit more speed and ability, Nico is most definitely a machine and his biggest asset is his quick thinking. He is able to assess things and make decisions incredibly quickly, and it was thanks to that ability that he avoided a big wreck with Ricciardo kamikaze-ing his way down the inside from much too far back. I was blown away by nick's awareness in that moment to see him just a few hundredths of a second into his turn in and corrected left to avoid the contact. THAT was an amazing piece of driver ability.
He sort of messed all that up though when he drove across Ricciardo's car on the exit.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by purchville »

nixxxon wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Webber and Ricciardo are both Australian.

And that is about where the similarities end.
Agree... They are different drivers. Webber was great in qualy, not so great in race pace. Ricciardo is the complete opposite I'd say.
Also Ricciardo is better overall than Webber ever was (quote from Mark himself)
I think you'll find that Webber was referring to Vettel, not Ricciardo. It's in his book.

Unless you can provide a quote??
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by pokerman »

purchville wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Webber and Ricciardo are both Australian.

And that is about where the similarities end.
Agree... They are different drivers. Webber was great in qualy, not so great in race pace. Ricciardo is the complete opposite I'd say.
Also Ricciardo is better overall than Webber ever was (quote from Mark himself)
I think you'll find that Webber was referring to Vettel, not Ricciardo. It's in his book.

Unless you can provide a quote??
He said it in a TV interview.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by purchville »

pokerman wrote:
purchville wrote:
nixxxon wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Webber and Ricciardo are both Australian.

And that is about where the similarities end.
Agree... They are different drivers. Webber was great in qualy, not so great in race pace. Ricciardo is the complete opposite I'd say.
Also Ricciardo is better overall than Webber ever was (quote from Mark himself)
I think you'll find that Webber was referring to Vettel, not Ricciardo. It's in his book.

Unless you can provide a quote??
He said it in a TV interview.
Thanks. Must have missed that.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by Exediron »

pokerman wrote:
purchville wrote:Unless you can provide a quote??
He said it in a TV interview.
Yeah, this is the one I think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubYA0Y2pIKo

Or at least, he says it there. I don't know if it's what you were thinking of.
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by pokerman »

Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
purchville wrote:Unless you can provide a quote??
He said it in a TV interview.
Yeah, this is the one I think: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubYA0Y2pIKo

Or at least, he says it there. I don't know if it's what you were thinking of.
Yes that's the one, cheers :thumbup:
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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by infi24r »

There is a lot of Verstappen hype at the moment because he's clearly very talented and the big unknown. But after their first few races the relative order will become clearer and the hype will vanish for them to be judged on their merits. Ricciardo has probably been the strongest driver overall this season, he really does get the maximum every race so Max has his work cut out for him.

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Re: RedBull change - Ricciardo the new Webber?

Post by infi24r »

purchville wrote:
Zoue wrote:My first thought is Red Bull aren't known for their favouritism. Webber was continually beaten because he just wasn't good enough, not because of anything Red Bull did.

If Ricciardo's the new Webber why was he "allowed" to beat Vettel? There's a whacking great hole in the favouritism theory right there. Or was Vettel somehow no longer favourite as they were bored with him winning titles?

Both Red Bull drivers have an equal chance to succeed. It's possible that over time they may focus attention more on a driver who consistently performs and delivers results, but then again that will be down to the driver himself, just like it was with Vettel and Webber. Ricciardo's already shown himself to be more than adequate and I doubt he'll be worried about whoever's in the other seat.
I think Webber is the wrong comparison. I do have a (unsubstantiated) feeling that Marko will try to push new boy Verstappen within the team more than the established one (RIC). He has talked VES up so much (the next Senna-level driver, once in a generation etc etc.) that failure would amount to a whole lot of egg-on-face.
He did the same with Vettel and we saw what Ricciardo did to him. Red Bull didn't exactly do anything to stop it, if anything they were encouraging it by mid year.

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