Vettels post race rant to Kyvat [MERGED]

backdoc · Post by **backdoc** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:07 am

Bizarre comments really. It was clean move. Didn't out brake himself, didn't run wide, didn't touch Vettel.

Kyvat's response was perfect - "that's racing"

Bit of a return to being a sook when things are going his way.

JohnnyGuitar · Post by **JohnnyGuitar** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:10 am

Deflection from Vettel. Deep down he knows he ran into his teammate and is trying to shift the blame.

To be fair to him though, he hasn't the benefit of seeing it from where we have. He might change his opinion when he sees the wide shot.

steoc4 · Post by **steoc4** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:10 am

I think Vettel will take it back when he sees the footage.

IDrinkYourMilkshake · Post by **IDrinkYourMilkshake** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:11 am

I don't tend to take drivers' adrenaline-fuelled comments too objectively. They often realise things differently later.

Kvyat had a gap wider than one car, he dove for it, did not have any contact. Case shut.
Vettel already realised a bit during the race, going from "mad man" to "torpedo". When the adrenaline wears off, he'll be more objective about it.

backdoc · Post by **backdoc** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:12 am

steoc4 wrote:I think Vettel will take it back when he sees the footage.

Sure, but wouldn't you think a driver of his calibre would refrain from doing that on live television until he has a chance to do just that. He just comes off looking like a bit of a sugarplum.

lamo · Post by **lamo** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:14 am

JohnnyGuitar wrote:Deflection from Vettel. Deep down he knows he ran into his teammate and is trying to shift the blame.

To be fair to him though, he hasn't the benefit of seeing it from where we have. He might change his opinion when he sees the wide shot.

Exactly my thoughts, especially as it is his team mate and he is friends with Kimi too. Daniil handled himself well though for a 21 year old up against a 4 times champion and driver who has been around for 10 years.

steoc4 · Post by **steoc4** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:16 am

backdoc wrote:
steoc4 wrote:I think Vettel will take it back when he sees the footage.
Sure, but wouldn't you think a driver of his calibre would refrain from doing that on live television until he has a chance to do just that. He just comes off looking like a bit of a sugarplum.

When the adrenaline is running after he's just spent two hours giving everything to recover from that moment, I think it's pretty understandable.

As for the incident itself, I don't think either driver did anything wrong. Kvyat had every right to go for the gap, and Vettel was left with absolutely nowhere to go. Kimi was the driver who made a mistake and created the whole chain reaction as he made his way back onto the racing line. Typical racing incident though.

Beschy · Post by **Beschy** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:17 am

It's a tricky one. I don'tparticularly think Kvyat did anything wrong, but from Vettel's onboard there is not much he could have done to avoid contact to either the left or right.

Black_Flag_11 · Post by **Black_Flag_11** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:17 am

Good to see drivers arguing in the post race room again I have to say!

I'm with Kvyat, it was a fair move, ambitious but ultimately racing incident.

Kimi could have left more space, Vettel could have backed out of the middle, Kvyat could have seen that 3 wide into that corner was never going to work and tucked in behind. Good to see him go for it though and also good to see no stupid penalties for a racing incident like we did in Bahrain

lamo · Post by **lamo** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:21 am

Beschy wrote:It's a tricky one. I don'tparticularly think Kvyat did anything wrong, but from Vettel's onboard there is not much he could have done to avoid contact to either the left or right.

He could have braked a bit earlier...

Mercedes-Benz · Post by **Mercedes-Benz** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:25 am

JohnnyGuitar wrote:Deflection from Vettel. Deep down he knows he ran into his teammate and is trying to shift the blame.

To be fair to him though, he hasn't the benefit of seeing it from where we have. He might change his opinion when he sees the wide shot.

Kvyat was not even close. Vettel was going to hit some one or the other

RaggedMan · Post by **RaggedMan** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:27 am

Simply trying to back out of the spot between Kyvat and Kimi probably would've put someone's front wing into his diffuser so there was really nothing for him to do in that situation.

As said above, post race adrenaline, no big deal, and the youngster gave as good as he got.

purchville · Post by **purchville** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:28 am

EDIT: wrong thread

Migen · Post by **Migen** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:33 am

If there`s any blame to be dished out for that incident, it has to go to Vettel.

But there wasnt much wrong with what Vettel did on track though. He got squeezed in between 2 cars and it could have been avoided only if Vettel had braked and backed out of the middle... which could have ended up in a lot more pain and chaos with all the rest of the field coming behind.

stitch512 · Post by **stitch512** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:33 am

If Vettel held his line, there was an almost certanty that Kvyat would have hit the side of vettel and causing a much larger crash through the turn. Instead vettel tried to take evasive action and unfortunately kimi was turning in on him as well. While the move certainly wasnt suicidal it wasnt exactly good racing either.

Kvyat was to blame for the lap one incidents whether he hit someone or not, but Vettels rant might be taking it a little too far.

Badgeronimous · Post by **Badgeronimous** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:33 am

As it unfolded, Kyvat and Raikkonen both had the corner. Out of the 3 of them Vettel had the least right to it and was always going to drive into a wedge - 3 into 2 doesn't go. He should of conceded, but IMO (like Hamilton last week) was too focused on Kimi and got surprised by Kyvat.

Vettel got himself into a situation where he had nowhere to go and should of conceded. Thus he takes most of the blame.

However as Kyvat put it....... that's racing. Nobody did anything particularly wrong. They are all making decisions in a very fluid enviroment, with so much happening in the space of a few seconds. You only have 1 set of eyes.

I'm just happy we never seen penalties and licence points this time.

Mercedes-Benz · Post by **Mercedes-Benz** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:38 am

stitch512 wrote:If Vettel held his line, there was an almost certanty that Kvyat would have hit the side of vettel and causing a much larger crash through the turn. Instead vettel tried to take evasive action and unfortunately kimi was turning in on him as well. While the move certainly wasnt suicidal it wasnt exactly good racing either.

Kvyat was to blame for the lap one incidents whether he hit someone or not, but Vettels rant might be taking it a little too far.

Kvyat was already gone. Vettel did not want to give up which he should have done to avoid collision.

Sevenfest · Post by **Sevenfest** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:54 am

If there hadn't been any contact between Kimi and Vettel we'd be praising a masterstroke of passing from Kyvat. The fact that Kyvat didn't hit either of them shouldn't detract from that. Racing incident, Vettel's frustrated and embarrassed because he hit his mate.

aice · Post by **aice** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:11 am

Regardless of who is to blame for the incident, Vettel's reaction was a bit over the top in my view. Thought Kyvat handled it well.

huggybear · Post by **huggybear** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:22 am

Looking at the wide shot, both Ferraris ran wide on entry and tried to late apex by cutting back across. Kvyat filled the space Vettel would have been in had he not run wide, and Seb was apparently amazed to find a car there. I suspect he'll feel like a bit of an idiot when he sees the tapes.

babararacucudada · Post by **babararacucudada** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:44 am

Even if Kimi was going to be able to cut across him, Vettel could have defended to avoid leaving the gap. Better to have both Ferraris still in the race with him behind.

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:44 am

Im with Kvyat but it was good to see Vettel front up to him. At least nobody can accuse him of being two faced.

v@sh · Post by **v@sh** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:47 am

huggybear wrote:Looking at the wide shot, both Ferraris ran wide on entry and tried to late apex by cutting back across. Kvyat filled the space Vettel would have been in had he not run wide, and Seb was apparently amazed to find a car there. I suspect he'll feel like a bit of an idiot when he sees the tapes.

I think this, Kvyat saw and gap and went for it which is fine. You can see by Vettel's steering reaction that he was turning into the apex when both himself and Kimi took a wider line but when he was surprised to see Kvyat there he had to adjust otherwise he would have had a clash with Kvyat and possibly taken Kimi as a result - which is why Vettel wasn't happy and in his opinion that if he had kept turning into the apex contact with Kvyat possibly meant it could have taken all three out.

As a result Vettel was squeezed and needed somewhere to go hence why Brundle mentioned it. Vettel took the safer option in making contact with his team-mate rather than potentially wiping out all three.

In the end a racing incident, don't think Vettel should have kept on hammering on about it though. Kvyat also knew his move was risky and it paid off, might not happen next time. Could have easily kissed his RBR career goodbye if he made contact given the pressure he was under.

Toby. · Post by **Toby.** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:48 am

Vettel had plenty of room between him and Kvyat. Contact was made because he chinked left into Raikkonen on his own accord, not because Kvyat forced him to do anything. Vettel should accept fault and apologise.

The German described Kvyat as "a madman" and his move as "suicidal" over team radio, and then erupted at his Red Bull replacement when Kvyat asked about the start in the drivers' room on the way to the podium.

"You ask what happened at the start? If I didn't go to the left, you'd have crashed into us and we'd all three go out," Vettel raged.

"You came like a torpedo."

When Kvyat retorted that he "was racing", Vettel replied: "If I'd kept going on the same line, we'd have crashed."

The argument concluded with Vettel declaring "you were lucky this time" to Kvyat.

mikeyg123 · Post by **mikeyg123** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 9:49 am

Also it was hardly a rant.

wolfticket · Post by **wolfticket** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:02 am

Rosberg got a bad start which caused him to have to break early behind Riciardo, which caused Raikkonen to have to take evasive to avoid him, which meant Raikkonen was on the outside, which meant Vettel had nowhere to go on the outside, which caused the contact. Ergo it was Rosberg's fault

Beschy · Post by **Beschy** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:12 am

Toby. wrote:Vettel had plenty of room between him and Kvyat. Contact was made because he chinked left into Raikkonen on his own accord, not because Kvyat forced him to do anything. Vettel should accept fault and apologise.

The German described Kvyat as "a madman" and his move as "suicidal" over team radio, and then erupted at his Red Bull replacement when Kvyat asked about the start in the drivers' room on the way to the podium.

"You ask what happened at the start? If I didn't go to the left, you'd have crashed into us and we'd all three go out," Vettel raged.

"You came like a torpedo."

When Kvyat retorted that he "was racing", Vettel replied: "If I'd kept going on the same line, we'd have crashed."

The argument concluded with Vettel declaring "you were lucky this time" to Kvyat.

This photo makes it look like Kvyat has made the corner, but actually he was going much too fast and was always going to cross onto Vettels line

Randine · Post by **Randine** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:18 am

Toby. wrote:Vettel had plenty of room between him and Kvyat. Contact was made because he chinked left into Raikkonen on his own accord, not because Kvyat forced him to do anything. Vettel should accept fault and apologise.

The German described Kvyat as "a madman" and his move as "suicidal" over team radio, and then erupted at his Red Bull replacement when Kvyat asked about the start in the drivers' room on the way to the podium.

"You ask what happened at the start? If I didn't go to the left, you'd have crashed into us and we'd all three go out," Vettel raged.

"You came like a torpedo."

When Kvyat retorted that he "was racing", Vettel replied: "If I'd kept going on the same line, we'd have crashed."

The argument concluded with Vettel declaring "you were lucky this time" to Kvyat.

That pic says it all!
When Vettel was having a go at Kvyat, and said something like 'where was I to go', I loved Kvyat's reply 'you could have backed off'
Just prior to this pic Kimi lost a bit of traction and started sliding towards the edge of the track. I think Vettel decided to stay out wide so he could attack the apex later and leave the corner with more speed.
Then Kyvat came up and Kimi stopped sliding and Vettel was left in a closing wedge.
It happened so fast it was a racing incident, but it wasn't Kvyat's fault.
I think Seb will apologize once he has a chance to cool off and view the footage.

wolfticket · Post by **wolfticket** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:20 am

Beschy wrote:
Toby. wrote:Vettel had plenty of room between him and Kvyat. Contact was made because he chinked left into Raikkonen on his own accord, not because Kvyat forced him to do anything. Vettel should accept fault and apologise.

The German described Kvyat as "a madman" and his move as "suicidal" over team radio, and then erupted at his Red Bull replacement when Kvyat asked about the start in the drivers' room on the way to the podium.

"You ask what happened at the start? If I didn't go to the left, you'd have crashed into us and we'd all three go out," Vettel raged.

"You came like a torpedo."

When Kvyat retorted that he "was racing", Vettel replied: "If I'd kept going on the same line, we'd have crashed."

The argument concluded with Vettel declaring "you were lucky this time" to Kvyat.

This photo makes it look like Kvyat has made the corner, but actually he was going much too fast and was always going to cross onto Vettels line

Too me on the footage it looks like he takes a different but perfectly legitimate line through the corner.

He's going to run wider in the exit by hugging the apex and carrying more speed in but he's by no means going to go off track or not going to make the next corner, and by that time he would take his natural line he'd be ahead of Vettel already anyway so Vettel would have the responsibility to get out of it.

Looks like a perfectly good and fairly typical overtake to me that just had unfortunate consequences as it was 3 abreast at the time.

Toby. · Post by **Toby.** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:23 am

Beschy wrote: This photo makes it look like Kvyat has made the corner, but actually he was going much too fast and was always going to cross onto Vettels line

Perhaps this sequence of images will persuade you otherwise:

Covalent · Post by **Covalent** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:25 am

wolfticket wrote:Rosberg got a bad start which caused him to have to break early behind Riciardo, which caused Raikkonen to have to take evasive to avoid him, which meant Raikkonen was on the outside, which meant Vettel had nowhere to go on the outside, which caused the contact. Ergo it was Rosberg's fault

Exediron · Post by **Exediron** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:29 am

Covalent wrote:
wolfticket wrote:Rosberg got a bad start which caused him to have to break early behind Riciardo, which caused Raikkonen to have to take evasive to avoid him, which meant Raikkonen was on the outside, which meant Vettel had nowhere to go on the outside, which caused the contact. Ergo it was Rosberg's fault

I see what you did there.

IDrinkYourMilkshake · Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:30 am

Beschy wrote:
Toby. wrote:Vettel had plenty of room between him and Kvyat. Contact was made because he chinked left into Raikkonen on his own accord, not because Kvyat forced him to do anything. Vettel should accept fault and apologise.

The German described Kvyat as "a madman" and his move as "suicidal" over team radio, and then erupted at his Red Bull replacement when Kvyat asked about the start in the drivers' room on the way to the podium.

"You ask what happened at the start? If I didn't go to the left, you'd have crashed into us and we'd all three go out," Vettel raged.

"You came like a torpedo."

When Kvyat retorted that he "was racing", Vettel replied: "If I'd kept going on the same line, we'd have crashed."

The argument concluded with Vettel declaring "you were lucky this time" to Kvyat.

This photo makes it look like Kvyat has made the corner, but actually he was going much too fast and was always going to cross onto Vettels line

Yes, Vettel may have left a car's gap, but it wasn't for too long, and in the photo, he has a lot of right-side steering lock, which means in a micro-second, he'd be near the apex, where Kvyat is. Hence he then applied left-side lock, and then straightened the car, sandwiched between Raikkonen and Kvyat.

It's a racing incident. Raikkonen went wide due to Rosberg breaking early, Vettel went on the inside of Kimi, but still was a bit wide to have an angle turning into the long turn 1. It created a momentary gap which Kvyat was entitled to take, but it caused Vettel to go left. I really can't see anyone being blamed. It's a racing incident. The only way to avoid these is by not having a race.

Blackhander · Post by **Blackhander** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:32 am

wolfticket wrote:
Beschy wrote:
Toby. wrote:Vettel had plenty of room between him and Kvyat. Contact was made because he chinked left into Raikkonen on his own accord, not because Kvyat forced him to do anything. Vettel should accept fault and apologise.

The German described Kvyat as "a madman" and his move as "suicidal" over team radio, and then erupted at his Red Bull replacement when Kvyat asked about the start in the drivers' room on the way to the podium.

"You ask what happened at the start? If I didn't go to the left, you'd have crashed into us and we'd all three go out," Vettel raged.

"You came like a torpedo."

When Kvyat retorted that he "was racing", Vettel replied: "If I'd kept going on the same line, we'd have crashed."

The argument concluded with Vettel declaring "you were lucky this time" to Kvyat.

This photo makes it look like Kvyat has made the corner, but actually he was going much too fast and was always going to cross onto Vettels line
Too me on the footage it looks like he takes a different but perfectly legitimate line through the corner.

He's going to run wider in the exit by hugging the apex and carrying more speed in but he's by no means going to go off track or not going to make the next corner, and by that time he would take his natural line he'd be ahead of Vettel already anyway so Vettel would have the responsibility to get out of it.

Looks like a perfectly good and fairly typical overtake to me that just had unfortunate consequences as it was 3 abreast at the time.

I agree, the line which kvyat took was in this case essentially the best possible line in that situation. Sure it was opportunistic, but when someone presents you with such an opportunity that is precisely the time to be opportunistic.

Raikkonen ran wide, vettel chose to go wide with him to get a better exit. That left a clean line through and kvyat took it. Vettel chose to go wide to cover Raikkonen, apparently he forgot that other people were racing too. I think he might be more mad that kvyat had the gall to call his bluff and take advantage of what would otherwise have been a great strategic move.

Beschy · Post by **Beschy** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:34 am

Toby. wrote:
Beschy wrote: This photo makes it look like Kvyat has made the corner, but actually he was going much too fast and was always going to cross onto Vettels line
Perhaps this sequence of images will persuade you otherwise:

Why would it? At this point Vettel has already taken evasive action to stop a collision with Kvyat on his line.

Beschy · Post by **Beschy** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 10:50 am

This shot clearly shows that even if Vettel and Kimi had not made contact, Kvyat would have run them both off the road because he was carrying too much speed to hold a controlled line round the corner.

This is what Vettel was angry about.

Blackhander · Post by **Blackhander** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:08 am

Beschy wrote:

This shot clearly shows that even if Vettel and Kimi had not made contact, Kvyat would have run them both off the road because he was carrying too much speed to hold a controlled line round the corner.

This is what Vettel was angry about.

Just as likely that he had seen them crash and figured that he would no longer need to hold the inside line and leave them space so went wider which would be faster and tax his tyres less

Beschy · Post by **Beschy** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:11 am

Blackhander wrote:
Beschy wrote:

This shot clearly shows that even if Vettel and Kimi had not made contact, Kvyat would have run them both off the road because he was carrying too much speed to hold a controlled line round the corner.

This is what Vettel was angry about.
Just as likely that he had seen them crash and figured that he would no longer need to hold the inside line and leave them space so went wider which would be faster and tax his tyres less

That's not what the footage shows IMO.

wolfticket · Post by **wolfticket** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:12 am

Beschy wrote:

This shot clearly shows that even if Vettel and Kimi had not made contact, Kvyat would have run them both off the road because he was carrying too much speed to hold a controlled line round the corner.

This is what Vettel was angry about.

I think it just shows that if Vettel hadn't taken him out Kvyat might have got Raikkonen in the same move.
In the footage there is never any suggestion he is out of control and his line, while different to the Ferraris, seems perfectly reasonable. He may have pushed cars he was along side or ahead of into taking a wider than normal line, but this is basically how overtaking works.

Blackhander · Post by **Blackhander** » Sun Apr 17, 2016 11:16 am

Watching the replays kvyat leaves more than one car width to The edge of the track. Plenty of room for another car in there to follow around without having to lift at all... Not enough space for two cars to fill that room evidently, but essentially that's not kvyats problem at all.