Official Australian GP Thread

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peachbuns
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by peachbuns »

mds wrote:
peachbuns wrote:This article's suggesting Seb was kept on the same set of supersofts for the red flag restart:

http://planetf1.com/news/ferraris-aggre ... efensible/

Surely that's not the case, is it? As far as I'm aware he was given a new set of SS...
No I'm pretty sure he was on the same tyres. That's what baffled me so much. Surely putting on a set of softs would have made far more sense if they didn't have another fresh set of supersofts anymore.
8O

If that's the case, then the whole Ferrari pitwall needs a good sacking.

Honestly WTF. Why didn't they just put on the mediums, see if they last you until the end, if not, make the stop you would have made anyway if you kept the supersofts on??

stevey
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by stevey »

it was a different set of ss tyres but I think they where a scrubbed set as they only took 2 sets with them.

it was massively the wrong call to think Ferrari could pull a 25 second gap on the Mercedes especially as the pace difference would need to be 2-3 seconds a lap before the ss went off.

Zoue
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by Zoue »

stevey wrote:it was a different set of ss tyres but I think they where a scrubbed set as they only took 2 sets with them.

it was massively the wrong call to think Ferrari could pull a 25 second gap on the Mercedes especially as the pace difference would need to be 2-3 seconds a lap before the ss went off.
I think the key is that Ferrari didn't expect Mercedes to go to the end without stopping. That was where it all unravelled. They based their tyre choice on the assumption that everybody would be stopping again, in which case they would not have needed to build a massive gap, just a big enough one that they wouldn't be at risk from an undercut. The accident happened quite early on don't forget.

Was still a big mistake, but Ferrari had not yet run the Mediums and apparently had no data as to how they would perform. They didn't think they would run to the end

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mds
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by mds »

stevey wrote:it was a different set of ss tyres but I think they where a scrubbed set as they only took 2 sets with them.
It was not a different set. See here: http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2016/03/20/2 ... t-stops-2/
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
stevey wrote:it was a different set of ss tyres but I think they where a scrubbed set as they only took 2 sets with them.

it was massively the wrong call to think Ferrari could pull a 25 second gap on the Mercedes especially as the pace difference would need to be 2-3 seconds a lap before the ss went off.
I think the key is that Ferrari didn't expect Mercedes to go to the end without stopping. That was where it all unravelled. They based their tyre choice on the assumption that everybody would be stopping again, in which case they would not have needed to build a massive gap, just a big enough one that they wouldn't be at risk from an undercut. The accident happened quite early on don't forget.

Was still a big mistake, but Ferrari had not yet run the Mediums and apparently had no data as to how they would perform. They didn't think they would run to the end
Other teams put Mediums on as well with the intention of running to the end so it wasn't an unobvious thing to do, Ferrari simply got out strategised.
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LKS1
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by LKS1 »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
stevey wrote:it was a different set of ss tyres but I think they where a scrubbed set as they only took 2 sets with them.

it was massively the wrong call to think Ferrari could pull a 25 second gap on the Mercedes especially as the pace difference would need to be 2-3 seconds a lap before the ss went off.
I think the key is that Ferrari didn't expect Mercedes to go to the end without stopping. That was where it all unravelled. They based their tyre choice on the assumption that everybody would be stopping again, in which case they would not have needed to build a massive gap, just a big enough one that they wouldn't be at risk from an undercut. The accident happened quite early on don't forget.

Was still a big mistake, but Ferrari had not yet run the Mediums and apparently had no data as to how they would perform. They didn't think they would run to the end
Other teams put Mediums on as well with the intention of running to the end so it wasn't an unobvious thing to do, Ferrari simply got out strategised.
Did you read Zoue's post? I've highlighted the relevant bits.

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
stevey wrote:it was a different set of ss tyres but I think they where a scrubbed set as they only took 2 sets with them.

it was massively the wrong call to think Ferrari could pull a 25 second gap on the Mercedes especially as the pace difference would need to be 2-3 seconds a lap before the ss went off.
I think the key is that Ferrari didn't expect Mercedes to go to the end without stopping. That was where it all unravelled. They based their tyre choice on the assumption that everybody would be stopping again, in which case they would not have needed to build a massive gap, just a big enough one that they wouldn't be at risk from an undercut. The accident happened quite early on don't forget.

Was still a big mistake, but Ferrari had not yet run the Mediums and apparently had no data as to how they would perform. They didn't think they would run to the end
Other teams put Mediums on as well with the intention of running to the end so it wasn't an unobvious thing to do, Ferrari simply got out strategised.
I'm not defending Ferrari. They made the wrong choice. Just pointing out the reason why. I don't think they expected anyone to go 40 odd laps without changing again.

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by pokerman »

LKS1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
stevey wrote:it was a different set of ss tyres but I think they where a scrubbed set as they only took 2 sets with them.

it was massively the wrong call to think Ferrari could pull a 25 second gap on the Mercedes especially as the pace difference would need to be 2-3 seconds a lap before the ss went off.
I think the key is that Ferrari didn't expect Mercedes to go to the end without stopping. That was where it all unravelled. They based their tyre choice on the assumption that everybody would be stopping again, in which case they would not have needed to build a massive gap, just a big enough one that they wouldn't be at risk from an undercut. The accident happened quite early on don't forget.

Was still a big mistake, but Ferrari had not yet run the Mediums and apparently had no data as to how they would perform. They didn't think they would run to the end
Other teams put Mediums on as well with the intention of running to the end so it wasn't an unobvious thing to do, Ferrari simply got out strategised.
Did you read Zoue's post? I've highlighted the relevant bits.
Yes but you can take this all the way back to winter testing and how teams prioritised their tyre choices.
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pokerman
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
stevey wrote:it was a different set of ss tyres but I think they where a scrubbed set as they only took 2 sets with them.

it was massively the wrong call to think Ferrari could pull a 25 second gap on the Mercedes especially as the pace difference would need to be 2-3 seconds a lap before the ss went off.
I think the key is that Ferrari didn't expect Mercedes to go to the end without stopping. That was where it all unravelled. They based their tyre choice on the assumption that everybody would be stopping again, in which case they would not have needed to build a massive gap, just a big enough one that they wouldn't be at risk from an undercut. The accident happened quite early on don't forget.

Was still a big mistake, but Ferrari had not yet run the Mediums and apparently had no data as to how they would perform. They didn't think they would run to the end
Other teams put Mediums on as well with the intention of running to the end so it wasn't an unobvious thing to do, Ferrari simply got out strategised.
I'm not defending Ferrari. They made the wrong choice. Just pointing out the reason why. I don't think they expected anyone to go 40 odd laps without changing again.
Like I've just posted, maybe you can blame the winter testing program?
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
stevey wrote:it was a different set of ss tyres but I think they where a scrubbed set as they only took 2 sets with them.

it was massively the wrong call to think Ferrari could pull a 25 second gap on the Mercedes especially as the pace difference would need to be 2-3 seconds a lap before the ss went off.
I think the key is that Ferrari didn't expect Mercedes to go to the end without stopping. That was where it all unravelled. They based their tyre choice on the assumption that everybody would be stopping again, in which case they would not have needed to build a massive gap, just a big enough one that they wouldn't be at risk from an undercut. The accident happened quite early on don't forget.

Was still a big mistake, but Ferrari had not yet run the Mediums and apparently had no data as to how they would perform. They didn't think they would run to the end
Other teams put Mediums on as well with the intention of running to the end so it wasn't an unobvious thing to do, Ferrari simply got out strategised.
I'm not defending Ferrari. They made the wrong choice. Just pointing out the reason why. I don't think they expected anyone to go 40 odd laps without changing again.
Like I've just posted, maybe you can blame the winter testing program?
Why am I looking to blame someone? I've already said it was Ferrari's fault? I just gave the reasoning. :?

pokerman
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by pokerman »

Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:I think the key is that Ferrari didn't expect Mercedes to go to the end without stopping. That was where it all unravelled. They based their tyre choice on the assumption that everybody would be stopping again, in which case they would not have needed to build a massive gap, just a big enough one that they wouldn't be at risk from an undercut. The accident happened quite early on don't forget.

Was still a big mistake, but Ferrari had not yet run the Mediums and apparently had no data as to how they would perform. They didn't think they would run to the end
Other teams put Mediums on as well with the intention of running to the end so it wasn't an unobvious thing to do, Ferrari simply got out strategised.
I'm not defending Ferrari. They made the wrong choice. Just pointing out the reason why. I don't think they expected anyone to go 40 odd laps without changing again.
Like I've just posted, maybe you can blame the winter testing program?
Why am I looking to blame someone? I've already said it was Ferrari's fault? I just gave the reasoning. :?
The you was a generalisation not a reference to yourself.
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by Zoue »

pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote: Other teams put Mediums on as well with the intention of running to the end so it wasn't an unobvious thing to do, Ferrari simply got out strategised.
I'm not defending Ferrari. They made the wrong choice. Just pointing out the reason why. I don't think they expected anyone to go 40 odd laps without changing again.
Like I've just posted, maybe you can blame the winter testing program?
Why am I looking to blame someone? I've already said it was Ferrari's fault? I just gave the reasoning. :?
The you was a generalisation not a reference to yourself.
ah ok fair enough. Misunderstood

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by LKS1 »

pokerman wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
stevey wrote:it was a different set of ss tyres but I think they where a scrubbed set as they only took 2 sets with them.

it was massively the wrong call to think Ferrari could pull a 25 second gap on the Mercedes especially as the pace difference would need to be 2-3 seconds a lap before the ss went off.
I think the key is that Ferrari didn't expect Mercedes to go to the end without stopping. That was where it all unravelled. They based their tyre choice on the assumption that everybody would be stopping again, in which case they would not have needed to build a massive gap, just a big enough one that they wouldn't be at risk from an undercut. The accident happened quite early on don't forget.

Was still a big mistake, but Ferrari had not yet run the Mediums and apparently had no data as to how they would perform. They didn't think they would run to the end
Other teams put Mediums on as well with the intention of running to the end so it wasn't an unobvious thing to do, Ferrari simply got out strategised.
Did you read Zoue's post? I've highlighted the relevant bits.
Yes but you can take this all the way back to winter testing and how teams prioritised their tyre choices.
How does this change anything? Your belief is that Ferrari were out strategised, whereas the other possiblilty is that they just made a bad mistake because they (mistakenly) thought the medium tyres wouldn't last to the end of the race - as they had little experience of the medium tyres.

Not that it matters - Ferrari got it wrong as they obviously didn't understand how long the medium tyres would last.

Edit - Another good reason to bring back unlimited (or at least less restrictive) testing IMO.

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by RosHam »

kleefton wrote:..... Look at this weekend, hamilton was noticeably faster than him all weekend including in the race, but Rosberg still won. That scenario can happen again a few times this year.
What do you understand by noticeably faster?

Within the last 10 Laps Hamiltons quickest was 1:30.646 and Rosbergs was 1:30.701
Hamilton was the chaser and Rosberg was over 8 Seconds ahead with no pressure at all.

RosHam

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by pokerman »

LKS1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:I think the key is that Ferrari didn't expect Mercedes to go to the end without stopping. That was where it all unravelled. They based their tyre choice on the assumption that everybody would be stopping again, in which case they would not have needed to build a massive gap, just a big enough one that they wouldn't be at risk from an undercut. The accident happened quite early on don't forget.

Was still a big mistake, but Ferrari had not yet run the Mediums and apparently had no data as to how they would perform. They didn't think they would run to the end
Other teams put Mediums on as well with the intention of running to the end so it wasn't an unobvious thing to do, Ferrari simply got out strategised.
Did you read Zoue's post? I've highlighted the relevant bits.
Yes but you can take this all the way back to winter testing and how teams prioritised their tyre choices.
How does this change anything? Your belief is that Ferrari were out strategised, whereas the other possiblilty is that they just made a bad mistake because they (mistakenly) thought the medium tyres wouldn't last to the end of the race - as they had little experience of the medium tyres.

Not that it matters - Ferrari got it wrong as they obviously didn't understand how long the medium tyres would last.

Edit - Another good reason to bring back unlimited (or at least less restrictive) testing IMO.
They had plenty of time to run on the medium tyres in winter testing.
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by Blake »

Zoue wrote:
stevey wrote:it was a different set of ss tyres but I think they where a scrubbed set as they only took 2 sets with them.

it was massively the wrong call to think Ferrari could pull a 25 second gap on the Mercedes especially as the pace difference would need to be 2-3 seconds a lap before the ss went off.
I think the key is that Ferrari didn't expect Mercedes to go to the end without stopping. That was where it all unravelled. They based their tyre choice on the assumption that everybody would be stopping again, in which case they would not have needed to build a massive gap, just a big enough one that they wouldn't be at risk from an undercut. The accident happened quite early on don't forget.

Was still a big mistake, but Ferrari had not yet run the Mediums and apparently had no data as to how they would perform. They didn't think they would run to the end
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by Covalent »

pokerman wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
LKS1 wrote:
pokerman wrote: Other teams put Mediums on as well with the intention of running to the end so it wasn't an unobvious thing to do, Ferrari simply got out strategised.
Did you read Zoue's post? I've highlighted the relevant bits.
Yes but you can take this all the way back to winter testing and how teams prioritised their tyre choices.
How does this change anything? Your belief is that Ferrari were out strategised, whereas the other possiblilty is that they just made a bad mistake because they (mistakenly) thought the medium tyres wouldn't last to the end of the race - as they had little experience of the medium tyres.

Not that it matters - Ferrari got it wrong as they obviously didn't understand how long the medium tyres would last.

Edit - Another good reason to bring back unlimited (or at least less restrictive) testing IMO.
They had plenty of time to run on the medium tyres in winter testing.
Maybe Mercedes are better on the medium tyres that's all? Ferrari can run it all they want but that only tells them how many laps they can do on the tyre.

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by babararacucudada »

RosHam wrote:
kleefton wrote:..... Look at this weekend, hamilton was noticeably faster than him all weekend including in the race, but Rosberg still won. That scenario can happen again a few times this year.
What do you understand by noticeably faster?

Within the last 10 Laps Hamiltons quickest was 1:30.646 and Rosbergs was 1:30.701
Hamilton was the chaser and Rosberg was over 8 Seconds ahead with no pressure at all.

RosHam
And Rosberg set the faster fastest lap - both on Medium tyres. Rosberg's on lap 21, Hamilton's on lap 48.

Hamilton managed to screw up his race all by himself - though he was unlucky with the red flag situation.

Mercedes supposedly thought the Medium tyres might not last the race, but 10 drivers used a set for 38 laps or more, so it wasn't risky after all.

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by pokerman »

babararacucudada wrote:
RosHam wrote:
kleefton wrote:..... Look at this weekend, hamilton was noticeably faster than him all weekend including in the race, but Rosberg still won. That scenario can happen again a few times this year.
What do you understand by noticeably faster?

Within the last 10 Laps Hamiltons quickest was 1:30.646 and Rosbergs was 1:30.701
Hamilton was the chaser and Rosberg was over 8 Seconds ahead with no pressure at all.

RosHam
And Rosberg set the faster fastest lap - both on Medium tyres. Rosberg's on lap 21, Hamilton's on lap 48.

Hamilton managed to screw up his race all by himself - though he was unlucky with the red flag situation.

Mercedes supposedly thought the Medium tyres might not last the race, but 10 drivers used a set for 38 laps or more, so it wasn't risky after all.
Some teams actually thought being on anything other than mediums on the restart was a no brainer, as for Hamilton his race actually got screwed when Rosberg slid wide and hit him.
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by mcdo »

pokerman wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:
RosHam wrote:
kleefton wrote:..... Look at this weekend, hamilton was noticeably faster than him all weekend including in the race, but Rosberg still won. That scenario can happen again a few times this year.
What do you understand by noticeably faster?

Within the last 10 Laps Hamiltons quickest was 1:30.646 and Rosbergs was 1:30.701
Hamilton was the chaser and Rosberg was over 8 Seconds ahead with no pressure at all.

RosHam
And Rosberg set the faster fastest lap - both on Medium tyres. Rosberg's on lap 21, Hamilton's on lap 48.

Hamilton managed to screw up his race all by himself - though he was unlucky with the red flag situation.

Mercedes supposedly thought the Medium tyres might not last the race, but 10 drivers used a set for 38 laps or more, so it wasn't risky after all.
Some teams actually thought being on anything other than mediums on the restart was a no brainer, as for Hamilton his race actually got screwed when Rosberg slid wide and hit him.
I saw both Renault and Williams say something to that effect. Mediums were the only logical way to go in their opinion
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mds
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by mds »

pokerman wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:
RosHam wrote:
kleefton wrote:..... Look at this weekend, hamilton was noticeably faster than him all weekend including in the race, but Rosberg still won. That scenario can happen again a few times this year.
What do you understand by noticeably faster?

Within the last 10 Laps Hamiltons quickest was 1:30.646 and Rosbergs was 1:30.701
Hamilton was the chaser and Rosberg was over 8 Seconds ahead with no pressure at all.

RosHam
And Rosberg set the faster fastest lap - both on Medium tyres. Rosberg's on lap 21, Hamilton's on lap 48.

Hamilton managed to screw up his race all by himself - though he was unlucky with the red flag situation.

Mercedes supposedly thought the Medium tyres might not last the race, but 10 drivers used a set for 38 laps or more, so it wasn't risky after all.
Some teams actually thought being on anything other than mediums on the restart was a no brainer, as for Hamilton his race actually got screwed when Rosberg slid wide and hit him.
Or when he didn't back out of a gap that was always going to disappear.
Or when he failed to make a decent getaway from pole.
Or maybe when he failed to line up properly on the grid.
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by Prema »

mds wrote:
pokerman wrote: Some teams actually thought being on anything other than mediums on the restart was a no brainer, as for Hamilton his race actually got screwed when Rosberg slid wide and hit him.
Or when he didn't back out of a gap that was always going to disappear.
Or when he failed to make a decent getaway from pole.
Or maybe when he failed to line up properly on the grid.
All of those. Though, the gap did already disappear. Vettel zoomed in between, Rosberg followed Vettel's line in the corner and had nothing to do with Lewis anymore who was with his whole car behind Rosberg. There is no way to blame Rosberg for having his car there where Lewis failed to put it.

This video from the helicopter shows it nicely:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wtfh6DV-cc

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by babararacucudada »

Prema wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote: Some teams actually thought being on anything other than mediums on the restart was a no brainer, as for Hamilton his race actually got screwed when Rosberg slid wide and hit him.
Or when he didn't back out of a gap that was always going to disappear.
Or when he failed to make a decent getaway from pole.
Or maybe when he failed to line up properly on the grid.
All of those. Though, the gap did already disappear. Vettel zoomed in between, Rosberg followed Vettel's line in the corner and had nothing to do with Lewis anymore who was with his whole car behind Rosberg. There is no way to blame Rosberg for having his car there where Lewis failed to put it.

This video from the helicopter shows it nicely:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wtfh6DV-cc
It's similar to Spa, where Rosberg didn't back off enough. Rosberg was pinned on the inside by vettel, locked up very slightly on the dirt and had to use all the track to defend against Raikkonen, who had a much better line into the corner. It was up to Hamilton to avoid contact.

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by pokerman »

babararacucudada wrote:
Prema wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote: Some teams actually thought being on anything other than mediums on the restart was a no brainer, as for Hamilton his race actually got screwed when Rosberg slid wide and hit him.
Or when he didn't back out of a gap that was always going to disappear.
Or when he failed to make a decent getaway from pole.
Or maybe when he failed to line up properly on the grid.
All of those. Though, the gap did already disappear. Vettel zoomed in between, Rosberg followed Vettel's line in the corner and had nothing to do with Lewis anymore who was with his whole car behind Rosberg. There is no way to blame Rosberg for having his car there where Lewis failed to put it.

This video from the helicopter shows it nicely:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wtfh6DV-cc
It's similar to Spa, where Rosberg didn't back off enough. Rosberg was pinned on the inside by vettel, locked up very slightly on the dirt and had to use all the track to defend against Raikkonen, who had a much better line into the corner. It was up to Hamilton to avoid contact.
Kimi was nowhere near Rosberg, he was behind both Rosberg and Hamilton and passed them both after Rosberg ran both himself and Hamilton wide.
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by LKS1 »

pokerman wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:
Prema wrote:
mds wrote:
pokerman wrote: Some teams actually thought being on anything other than mediums on the restart was a no brainer, as for Hamilton his race actually got screwed when Rosberg slid wide and hit him.
Or when he didn't back out of a gap that was always going to disappear.
Or when he failed to make a decent getaway from pole.
Or maybe when he failed to line up properly on the grid.
All of those. Though, the gap did already disappear. Vettel zoomed in between, Rosberg followed Vettel's line in the corner and had nothing to do with Lewis anymore who was with his whole car behind Rosberg. There is no way to blame Rosberg for having his car there where Lewis failed to put it.

This video from the helicopter shows it nicely:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wtfh6DV-cc
It's similar to Spa, where Rosberg didn't back off enough. Rosberg was pinned on the inside by vettel, locked up very slightly on the dirt and had to use all the track to defend against Raikkonen, who had a much better line into the corner. It was up to Hamilton to avoid contact.
Kimi was nowhere near Rosberg, he was behind both Rosberg and Hamilton and passed them both after Rosberg ran both himself and Hamilton wide.
Did you watch the youtube footage provided by Prema?

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by Prema »

pokerman wrote: Kimi was nowhere near Rosberg, he was behind both Rosberg and Hamilton and passed them both after Rosberg ran both himself and Hamilton wide.
Rosberg did not really run even himself wide. Yes, he went wide, but if you watch the clip, you'll see that Vettel did not leave him much of a choice as what the line to take prior to entering into that corner, blocking him and squeezing him to right. When Vettel let him finally free, Rosberg had to go wide from that moment if to keep the momentum, following in Vettel's line.

Hamilton? He was not run wide by anybody but by his own awful start that saw him fall behind both Vettel and Rosberg prior to entering the corner, and he had to settle for whatever was left to him. It is not Rosberg's responsibility to cater for Hamilton's needs, is it?

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by mcdo »

Prema wrote:This video from the helicopter shows it nicely:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wtfh6DV-cc
Try and catch a glimpse of Wehrlein. That start was mega
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by LKS1 »

It seems some drivers have mastered the start better than others - i.e. they fared far better than their team mates.

Its only the first race of the season though, so lots of time to catch up.

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by pokerman »

LKS1 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:
Prema wrote:
mds wrote: Or when he didn't back out of a gap that was always going to disappear.
Or when he failed to make a decent getaway from pole.
Or maybe when he failed to line up properly on the grid.
All of those. Though, the gap did already disappear. Vettel zoomed in between, Rosberg followed Vettel's line in the corner and had nothing to do with Lewis anymore who was with his whole car behind Rosberg. There is no way to blame Rosberg for having his car there where Lewis failed to put it.

This video from the helicopter shows it nicely:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wtfh6DV-cc
It's similar to Spa, where Rosberg didn't back off enough. Rosberg was pinned on the inside by vettel, locked up very slightly on the dirt and had to use all the track to defend against Raikkonen, who had a much better line into the corner. It was up to Hamilton to avoid contact.
Kimi was nowhere near Rosberg, he was behind both Rosberg and Hamilton and passed them both after Rosberg ran both himself and Hamilton wide.
Did you watch the youtube footage provided by Prema?
Yes and Rosberg was not under attack from Kimi approaching the corner, basically Rosberg locked up and ran both himself and Hamilton wide allowing Kimi to pass the both of them, did you watch the video?
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by pokerman »

Prema wrote:
pokerman wrote: Kimi was nowhere near Rosberg, he was behind both Rosberg and Hamilton and passed them both after Rosberg ran both himself and Hamilton wide.
Rosberg did not really run even himself wide. Yes, he went wide, but if you watch the clip, you'll see that Vettel did not leave him much of a choice as what the line to take prior to entering into that corner, blocking him and squeezing him to right. When Vettel let him finally free, Rosberg had to go wide from that moment if to keep the momentum, following in Vettel's line.

Hamilton? He was not run wide by anybody but by his own awful start that saw him fall behind both Vettel and Rosberg prior to entering the corner, and he had to settle for whatever was left to him. It is not Rosberg's responsibility to cater for Hamilton's needs, is it?
Rosberg's version is that his car slid causing him to run wide, he actually wasn't aware were Hamilton was, he over fought the position with Vettel causing himself to lose position to Kimi.
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by LKS1 »

Re. previous comment - I meant that the video showed that Lewis was in no way 'alongside' Nico when the touch occurred.

Edit - but admittedly this wasn't clear from my post. :blush: .

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by pokerman »

LKS1 wrote:Re. previous comment - I meant that the video showed that Lewis was in no way 'alongside' Nico when the touch occurred.

Edit - but admittedly this wasn't clear from my post. :blush: .
He had to be partly alongside him for the slight contact to occur, Hamilton had to drive off the track for the contact not to be worse.
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by mds »

pokerman wrote:
LKS1 wrote:Re. previous comment - I meant that the video showed that Lewis was in no way 'alongside' Nico when the touch occurred.

Edit - but admittedly this wasn't clear from my post. :blush: .
He had to be partly alongside him for the slight contact to occur, Hamilton had to drive off the track for the contact not to be worse.
No he didn't have to do that - he could have held back a bit too. This is on Hamilton, plain and simple.

As for Rosberg - it's a pretty well known fact that if you go into the corner on the inside, you're going to end up more to the outside (or you would have to go really slow). Hamilton should have expected that. Either way it's on him.
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by Prema »

pokerman wrote:
Prema wrote:
pokerman wrote: Kimi was nowhere near Rosberg, he was behind both Rosberg and Hamilton and passed them both after Rosberg ran both himself and Hamilton wide.
Rosberg did not really run even himself wide. Yes, he went wide, but if you watch the clip, you'll see that Vettel did not leave him much of a choice as what the line to take prior to entering into that corner, blocking him and squeezing him to right. When Vettel let him finally free, Rosberg had to go wide from that moment if to keep the momentum, following in Vettel's line.

Hamilton? He was not run wide by anybody but by his own awful start that saw him fall behind both Vettel and Rosberg prior to entering the corner, and he had to settle for whatever was left to him. It is not Rosberg's responsibility to cater for Hamilton's needs, is it?
Rosberg's version is that his car slid causing him to run wide, he actually wasn't aware were Hamilton was, he over fought the position with Vettel causing himself to lose position to Kimi.
But that version wouldn't contradict anything here, indeed it would make a sense since he was coming into that corner from much the inside where he was forced by Vettel who took the better line. And with a slide or not, he was ahead of Hamilton and it's in his full right to race the race and not bother about what Hamilton would want to see happen there.
Really, what was Rosberg to do in order to satisfy you? To lift and make sure that Hamilton (and bunch of others) gets a free pass ahead of him?
Let it go. Hamilton blew it. Rosberg did a better job and won on the end (with the help of SC and Ferrari's unsuccessful strategy, though).

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by pokerman »

mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
LKS1 wrote:Re. previous comment - I meant that the video showed that Lewis was in no way 'alongside' Nico when the touch occurred.

Edit - but admittedly this wasn't clear from my post. :blush: .
He had to be partly alongside him for the slight contact to occur, Hamilton had to drive off the track for the contact not to be worse.
No he didn't have to do that - he could have held back a bit too. This is on Hamilton, plain and simple.

As for Rosberg - it's a pretty well known fact that if you go into the corner on the inside, you're going to end up more to the outside (or you would have to go really slow). Hamilton should have expected that. Either way it's on him.
By that score Rosberg could have backed off a bit as well instead of having to lock his wheels at the last moment which caused him to run wide on the corner allowing Kimi to drive past, it seems we can lay fault on Hamilton but no fault on Rosberg?
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by pokerman »

Prema wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Prema wrote:
pokerman wrote: Kimi was nowhere near Rosberg, he was behind both Rosberg and Hamilton and passed them both after Rosberg ran both himself and Hamilton wide.
Rosberg did not really run even himself wide. Yes, he went wide, but if you watch the clip, you'll see that Vettel did not leave him much of a choice as what the line to take prior to entering into that corner, blocking him and squeezing him to right. When Vettel let him finally free, Rosberg had to go wide from that moment if to keep the momentum, following in Vettel's line.

Hamilton? He was not run wide by anybody but by his own awful start that saw him fall behind both Vettel and Rosberg prior to entering the corner, and he had to settle for whatever was left to him. It is not Rosberg's responsibility to cater for Hamilton's needs, is it?
Rosberg's version is that his car slid causing him to run wide, he actually wasn't aware were Hamilton was, he over fought the position with Vettel causing himself to lose position to Kimi.
But that version wouldn't contradict anything here, indeed it would make a sense since he was coming into that corner from much the inside where he was forced by Vettel who took the better line. And with a slide or not, he was ahead of Hamilton and it's in his full right to race the race and not bother about what Hamilton would want to see happen there.
Really, what was Rosberg to do in order to satisfy you? To lift and make sure that Hamilton (and bunch of others) gets a free pass ahead of him?
Let it go. Hamilton blew it. Rosberg did a better job and won on the end (with the help of SC and Ferrari's unsuccessful strategy, though).
That doesn't change what I said that Rosberg messed up the corner which allowed Kimi to pass him.
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by Fiki »

pokerman wrote:
Prema wrote:Rosberg's version is that his car slid causing him to run wide, he actually wasn't aware were Hamilton was, he over fought the position with Vettel causing himself to lose position to Kimi.[/quote

But that version wouldn't contradict anything here, indeed it would make a sense since he was coming into that corner from much the inside where he was forced by Vettel who took the better line. And with a slide or not, he was ahead of Hamilton and it's in his full right to race the race and not bother about what Hamilton would want to see happen there.
Really, what was Rosberg to do in order to satisfy you? To lift and make sure that Hamilton (and bunch of others) gets a free pass ahead of him?
Let it go. Hamilton blew it. Rosberg did a better job and won on the end (with the help of SC and Ferrari's unsuccessful strategy, though).
That doesn't change what I said that Rosberg messed up the corner which allowed Kimi to pass him.
It doesn't change what you said, but it does show that what you said was incorrect. ;)
Vettel didn't allow Rosberg to take the corner at anywhere near adequate speed. Räikkönen's line and speed were better. The only reason the two Ferrari's ran 1 and 2 isn't Rosberg's corner, it's Vettel's line going towards it.

I couldn't help but wonder how aware Vettel was of Hamilton's or Räikkönen's positions, in view of his rough defence against Rosberg.
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by Prema »

pokerman wrote:
Prema wrote:
But that version wouldn't contradict anything here, indeed it would make a sense since he was coming into that corner from much the inside where he was forced by Vettel who took the better line. And with a slide or not, he was ahead of Hamilton and it's in his full right to race the race and not bother about what Hamilton would want to see happen there.
Really, what was Rosberg to do in order to satisfy you? To lift and make sure that Hamilton (and bunch of others) gets a free pass ahead of him?
Let it go. Hamilton blew it. Rosberg did a better job and won on the end (with the help of SC and Ferrari's unsuccessful strategy, though).
That doesn't change what I said that Rosberg messed up the corner which allowed Kimi to pass him.
And I'll take that as your "I agree". Good enough :nod:

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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by mds »

pokerman wrote: By that score Rosberg could have backed off a bit as well instead of having to lock his wheels at the last moment which caused him to run wide on the corner allowing Kimi to drive past, it seems we can lay fault on Hamilton but no fault on Rosberg?
No, it seems that you can't admit when Hamilton is at fault.

Why on earth would Rosberg have backed off? That would have given Hamilton a free pass around the outside of Rosberg. This is racing, Rosberg was ahead, Rosberg made the corner, his line was compromised by Vettel pinning him on the inside, and he kept ahead of his main rival who at no point was ahead and should have simply adjusted his speed in order to not destroy his front wing.
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Re: Official Australian GP Thread

Post by ETM3 »

pokerman wrote:
LKS1 wrote:Re. previous comment - I meant that the video showed that Lewis was in no way 'alongside' Nico when the touch occurred.

Edit - but admittedly this wasn't clear from my post. :blush: .
He had to be partly alongside him for the slight contact to occur, Hamilton had to drive off the track for the contact not to be worse.

Hamilton hanging on was an act of desperation. When the overlap between two cars is measured in inches you are at a point where its time to breathe the throttle and tuck in. To expect the lead driver to be aware of such a small overlap is unreasonable. Hamilton himself has been in Rosbergs position many a time and driven exactly as ROS did.

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