Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

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Invade
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Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Invade »

No poll, just discussion.

Who do you think is the best driver on the grid? Perhaps you could give a top 5 with accompanying reasons?

What might give Vettel the edge over Alonso?

What might give Ricciardo the edge over Rosberg?

Name who you think are the best racers out there.

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Fountoukos13
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Fountoukos13 »

Invade wrote:No poll, just discussion.

Who do you think is the best driver on the grid? Perhaps you could give a top 5 with accompanying reasons?

What might give Vettel the edge over Alonso?

What might give Ricciardo the edge over Rosberg?

Name who you think are the best racers out there.
Vettel. Being the best means achieving the most. Arguments like driving the best car and Alonso always driving an inferior car don't count because it's not about who is the most skilled but the best.
Being the best is having better results the anybody else.

Also stuff like "Multi 21" for his case or the blackmail of Dennis for Alonso once again are arguments for the question: Who is the Greatest of all time.

So a top 5 that you asked should be Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen, Button.

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minchy
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by minchy »

Fountoukos13 wrote:
Invade wrote:No poll, just discussion.

Who do you think is the best driver on the grid? Perhaps you could give a top 5 with accompanying reasons?

What might give Vettel the edge over Alonso?

What might give Ricciardo the edge over Rosberg?

Name who you think are the best racers out there.
Vettel. Being the best means achieving the most. Arguments like driving the best car and Alonso always driving an inferior car don't count because it's not about who is the most skilled but the best.
Being the best is having better results the anybody else.

Also stuff like "Multi 21" for his case or the blackmail of Dennis for Alonso once again are arguments for the question: Who is the Greatest of all time.

So a top 5 that you asked should be Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso, Raikkonen, Button.
Hard to argue with you're logic if you look at that way. But maybe he meant 'which driver on the grid os the mist skilled at driving an f1 car' otherwise you can classify the beat driver anyway you see fit! The best personality of the drivers, the best dressed of the drivers, the best at contract negotiations etc etc
There is no theory of evolution, just a list of animals that Chuck Norris allows to live.

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Invade
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Invade »

I meant in terms of overall driving ability as well as the ability for a driver to integrate themselves into a team and to help setup the car - the whole package. I also was asking based on not too distant form. I find it hard to think that Raikkonen is one of the top-5 CURRENT drivers on form and ability. It's a long time now since he won the WDC and he's been spanked recently in emphatic fashion by Alonso and Vettel. However, any and all angles are welcome, of course.

Just for the record thoughl on recent-ish form I think Raikkonen can't even sniff top 5, whereas Vettel, by comparison, was arguably the best driver of the 2015 season.

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Black_Flag_11
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Black_Flag_11 »

Bernd Mayländer.

No competition really. His laps lead to completed statistic is simply unparalleled.

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Invade
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Invade »

Yep, Bernd is the best.

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Lt. Drebin
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Lt. Drebin »

Who is the best?

Sometimes it depends when and who drives what car, at which track, in which conditions. But there is a creme of the crop and it's shared between Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso and perhaps Rosberg. Close are Ricciardo, Raikkonen, Massa, Bottas and Button. That's it for me.
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aice
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by aice »

Black_Flag_11 wrote:Bernd Mayländer.

No competition really. His laps lead to completed statistic is simply unparalleled.
Yep, i'll second that :lol:
You just need to be accepted for who you are and be proud of who you are and that is what I'm trying to do.
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Warheart01

Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Warheart01 »

Invade wrote:I meant in terms of overall driving ability as well as the ability for a driver to integrate themselves into a team and to help setup the car - the whole package. I also was asking based on not too distant form. I find it hard to think that Raikkonen is one of the top-5 CURRENT drivers on form and ability. It's a long time now since he won the WDC and he's been spanked recently in emphatic fashion by Alonso and Vettel. However, any and all angles are welcome, of course.

Just for the record thoughl on recent-ish form I think Raikkonen can't even sniff top 5, whereas Vettel, by comparison, was arguably the best driver of the 2015 season.
How so? His Bahrain and Mexico race was utter sh*t tbh. It was paydriver-in-a-good-car bad. Nothing against Vettel (anymore) but I'd like to hear your motivation.

On topic, best on the grid is still probably Alonso.

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Fountoukos13 »

Warheart01 wrote:
Invade wrote:I meant in terms of overall driving ability as well as the ability for a driver to integrate themselves into a team and to help setup the car - the whole package. I also was asking based on not too distant form. I find it hard to think that Raikkonen is one of the top-5 CURRENT drivers on form and ability. It's a long time now since he won the WDC and he's been spanked recently in emphatic fashion by Alonso and Vettel. However, any and all angles are welcome, of course.

Just for the record thoughl on recent-ish form I think Raikkonen can't even sniff top 5, whereas Vettel, by comparison, was arguably the best driver of the 2015 season.
How so? His Bahrain and Mexico race was utter sh*t tbh. It was paydriver-in-a-good-car bad. Nothing against Vettel (anymore) but I'd like to hear your motivation.

On topic, best on the grid is still probably Alonso.
During the race Alonso is probably the most skilled. He is cunning and that helps him a lot. But in all other areas i think he is not that good. For example he has a tendency to create friction with his bosses, the cars he drives tend to become worse with each passing year. For example Ferrari (2010-2014) with the exception of 2013 each year was worse than before. He is clearly a great driver but what he lacks and i think is the reason why he hasn't gotten his 3rd championship is leadership. With the exception of Hamilton all triple or more WDC had leadership as one of their main skills.
(Hamilton hasn't had the need to do this in his career).

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

I'm of the opinion that Alonso is the best driver on the grid by a decent margin, although it's hard to judge if he has started to decline in performance as he grows older. Hungary 2014 sums up exactly why I think he is the best, holding off hamilton and just losing out to Ricciardo was outstanding. He is always taking advantage of every scenario, always two steps ahead of the game.

Vettel and Hamilton are extremely close to each other in my opinion. If they were teammates, I think Vettel would win as I believe he would be more emotionally stable, and would be more consistent than him.

Ricciardo would be behind these two drivers. He shares the same characteristic of Alonso that he always manages to be more superior than other drivers when a variable such as rain or a safety car mixes up strategy. And, as Brundle mentioned before, he carries his car in a similar way to Schumacher being able to gain speed even when sliding through corners.
"Always believe you will become the best, but never believe you have done so"

Warheart01

Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Warheart01 »

Fountoukos13 wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:
Invade wrote:I meant in terms of overall driving ability as well as the ability for a driver to integrate themselves into a team and to help setup the car - the whole package. I also was asking based on not too distant form. I find it hard to think that Raikkonen is one of the top-5 CURRENT drivers on form and ability. It's a long time now since he won the WDC and he's been spanked recently in emphatic fashion by Alonso and Vettel. However, any and all angles are welcome, of course.

Just for the record thoughl on recent-ish form I think Raikkonen can't even sniff top 5, whereas Vettel, by comparison, was arguably the best driver of the 2015 season.
How so? His Bahrain and Mexico race was utter sh*t tbh. It was paydriver-in-a-good-car bad. Nothing against Vettel (anymore) but I'd like to hear your motivation.

On topic, best on the grid is still probably Alonso.
During the race Alonso is probably the most skilled. He is cunning and that helps him a lot. But in all other areas i think he is not that good. For example he has a tendency to create friction with his bosses, the cars he drives tend to become worse with each passing year. For example Ferrari (2010-2014) with the exception of 2013 each year was worse than before. He is clearly a great driver but what he lacks and i think is the reason why he hasn't gotten his 3rd championship is leadership. With the exception of Hamilton all triple or more WDC had leadership as one of their main skills.
(Hamilton hasn't had the need to do this in his career).
So you are saying he is the most skilled F1 driver, but he is bad because he cause friction with his bosses? That means, he is the best driver (that answers the question of this topic) but he is fairy cakes at having a good relation with his boss (which has nothing to do with driving).

Warheart01

Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Warheart01 »

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:I'm of the opinion that Alonso is the best driver on the grid by a decent margin, although it's hard to judge if he has started to decline in performance as he grows older. Hungary 2014 sums up exactly why I think he is the best, holding off hamilton and just losing out to Ricciardo was outstanding. He is always taking advantage of every scenario, always two steps ahead of the game.

Vettel and Hamilton are extremely close to each other in my opinion. If they were teammates, I think Vettel would win as I believe he would be more emotionally stable, and would be more consistent than him.

Ricciardo would be behind these two drivers. He shares the same characteristic of Alonso that he always manages to be more superior than other drivers when a variable such as rain or a safety car mixes up strategy. And, as Brundle mentioned before, he carries his car in a similar way to Schumacher being able to gain speed even when sliding through corners.
I'm not sure, Vettel against Hamilton is a tough one. I think Hamilton has more natural talent (atleast that's what I want to belive) and I think he is that one bit quicker.
And Ricciardo is a tough cookie, my gutfeeling tells me he is better than Vettel overall. Vettel could handle the 2009-2013 cars superbly but was outright bad in 2014 and couldn't handle a car that wasn't planted, same in some races in 2015. Top 4 is Alonso, Hamilton, Ricciardo and Vettel for sure.

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by VDV23 »

I'd give Alonso the edge over everyone else. His ability to see the full picture while driving and achieving results which shouldn't be possible is what really elevates him in my eyes.

Hamilton a close second, just a bit more fragile mentally and inconsistent.

Ricciardo third because the Honey Badger doesn't give a c**p

Vettel and Rosberg for 4th and 5th

Warheart01

Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Warheart01 »

VDV23 wrote:I'd give Alonso the edge over everyone else. His ability to see the full picture while driving and achieving results which shouldn't be possible is what really elevates him in my eyes.

Hamilton a close second, just a bit more fragile mentally and inconsistent.

Ricciardo third because the Honey Badger doesn't give a c**p

Vettel and Rosberg for 4th and 5th
Yep, probably this.
But perhaps Button/Raikkonen is a bit better than Rosberg, I can't see them making the same scewups under pressure as ROS in 2014-15? Rosberg has improved greatly though.
(They haven't pulled of as dodgy moves as ROS in Monaco 2014 qualy either).

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by VDV23 »

Warheart01 wrote:
VDV23 wrote:I'd give Alonso the edge over everyone else. His ability to see the full picture while driving and achieving results which shouldn't be possible is what really elevates him in my eyes.

Hamilton a close second, just a bit more fragile mentally and inconsistent.

Ricciardo third because the Honey Badger doesn't give a c**p

Vettel and Rosberg for 4th and 5th
Yep, probably this.
But perhaps Button/Raikkonen is a bit better than Rosberg, I can't see them making the same scewups under pressure as ROS in 2014-15? Rosberg has improved greatly though.
(They haven't pulled of as dodgy moves as ROS in Monaco 2014 qualy either).
Oh yes, I'd actually give Button the edge over Rosberg.

Kimi? Nah. Certainly not now just after Alonso and Vettel absolutely destroyed him. Not to mention that looking back to his results versus Massa & Grosjean it makes me question how good he really was back in the day.

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Schumacher forever#1 »

Warheart01 wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:I'm of the opinion that Alonso is the best driver on the grid by a decent margin, although it's hard to judge if he has started to decline in performance as he grows older. Hungary 2014 sums up exactly why I think he is the best, holding off hamilton and just losing out to Ricciardo was outstanding. He is always taking advantage of every scenario, always two steps ahead of the game.

Vettel and Hamilton are extremely close to each other in my opinion. If they were teammates, I think Vettel would win as I believe he would be more emotionally stable, and would be more consistent than him.

Ricciardo would be behind these two drivers. He shares the same characteristic of Alonso that he always manages to be more superior than other drivers when a variable such as rain or a safety car mixes up strategy. And, as Brundle mentioned before, he carries his car in a similar way to Schumacher being able to gain speed even when sliding through corners.
I'm not sure, Vettel against Hamilton is a tough one. I think Hamilton has more natural talent (atleast that's what I want to belive) and I think he is that one bit quicker.
And Ricciardo is a tough cookie, my gutfeeling tells me he is better than Vettel overall. Vettel could handle the 2009-2013 cars superbly but was outright bad in 2014 and couldn't handle a car that wasn't planted, same in some races in 2015. Top 4 is Alonso, Hamilton, Ricciardo and Vettel for sure.
:thumbup: Vettel vs Hamilton is very subjective. One can easily name Hamilton's great races, and Vettel has had just as much. I wouldn't argue against anyone stating one is better than the other, but they definitely are close.
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Warheart01

Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Warheart01 »

True true! But his racecraft when he was at his peak was Alonsoesque, in 2012-2013 he was a beast, always clean and fair.
But as you say Grosjean was very close to him, but I rate Grosjean quite highly apart from him being quite crashprone. He is a very quick driver though.

Warheart01

Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Warheart01 »

Schumacher forever#1 wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:
Schumacher forever#1 wrote:I'm of the opinion that Alonso is the best driver on the grid by a decent margin, although it's hard to judge if he has started to decline in performance as he grows older. Hungary 2014 sums up exactly why I think he is the best, holding off hamilton and just losing out to Ricciardo was outstanding. He is always taking advantage of every scenario, always two steps ahead of the game.

Vettel and Hamilton are extremely close to each other in my opinion. If they were teammates, I think Vettel would win as I believe he would be more emotionally stable, and would be more consistent than him.

Ricciardo would be behind these two drivers. He shares the same characteristic of Alonso that he always manages to be more superior than other drivers when a variable such as rain or a safety car mixes up strategy. And, as Brundle mentioned before, he carries his car in a similar way to Schumacher being able to gain speed even when sliding through corners.
I'm not sure, Vettel against Hamilton is a tough one. I think Hamilton has more natural talent (atleast that's what I want to belive) and I think he is that one bit quicker.
And Ricciardo is a tough cookie, my gutfeeling tells me he is better than Vettel overall. Vettel could handle the 2009-2013 cars superbly but was outright bad in 2014 and couldn't handle a car that wasn't planted, same in some races in 2015. Top 4 is Alonso, Hamilton, Ricciardo and Vettel for sure.
:thumbup: Vettel vs Hamilton is very subjective. One can easily name Hamilton's great races, and Vettel has had just as much. I wouldn't argue against anyone stating one is better than the other, but they definitely are close.
I know! I was so anti Vettel/RB back in the day when he won it all. But mostly I guess I didn't like RB, now I would enjoy Vettel winning with Ferrari.
I'm warming to Vettel quite a bit since he joined Ferrari.

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Invade
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Invade »

Warheart01 wrote:
Invade wrote:I meant in terms of overall driving ability as well as the ability for a driver to integrate themselves into a team and to help setup the car - the whole package. I also was asking based on not too distant form. I find it hard to think that Raikkonen is one of the top-5 CURRENT drivers on form and ability. It's a long time now since he won the WDC and he's been spanked recently in emphatic fashion by Alonso and Vettel. However, any and all angles are welcome, of course.

Just for the record thoughl on recent-ish form I think Raikkonen can't even sniff top 5, whereas Vettel, by comparison, was arguably the best driver of the 2015 season.
How so? His Bahrain and Mexico race was utter sh*t tbh. It was paydriver-in-a-good-car bad. Nothing against Vettel (anymore) but I'd like to hear your motivation.

On topic, best on the grid is still probably Alonso.
Well, I'm not the expert that some are on here, but I was just generally impressed with his performance on the whole throughout the season, and he completely annihilated Raikkonen — albeit, I get the impression that Vettel is clearly the first guy in that team. He did have a couple of duff races but so did Hamilton (was it Belgium where he mugged it up? edit: no, Hungary). Hamilton also shut it down somewhat at the end of the season perhaps on a subconscious level, admittedly after he'd already wrapped up the Championship. I think it was pretty close between Hamilton and Vettel last year. I certainly think there's an argument for Vettel being the best.. how to put it.. pound-for-pound driver last year, just as I think there's an argument for Hamilton.

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Invade
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Invade »

Warheart01 wrote:
Fountoukos13 wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:
Invade wrote:I meant in terms of overall driving ability as well as the ability for a driver to integrate themselves into a team and to help setup the car - the whole package. I also was asking based on not too distant form. I find it hard to think that Raikkonen is one of the top-5 CURRENT drivers on form and ability. It's a long time now since he won the WDC and he's been spanked recently in emphatic fashion by Alonso and Vettel. However, any and all angles are welcome, of course.

Just for the record thoughl on recent-ish form I think Raikkonen can't even sniff top 5, whereas Vettel, by comparison, was arguably the best driver of the 2015 season.
How so? His Bahrain and Mexico race was utter sh*t tbh. It was paydriver-in-a-good-car bad. Nothing against Vettel (anymore) but I'd like to hear your motivation.

On topic, best on the grid is still probably Alonso.
During the race Alonso is probably the most skilled. He is cunning and that helps him a lot. But in all other areas i think he is not that good. For example he has a tendency to create friction with his bosses, the cars he drives tend to become worse with each passing year. For example Ferrari (2010-2014) with the exception of 2013 each year was worse than before. He is clearly a great driver but what he lacks and i think is the reason why he hasn't gotten his 3rd championship is leadership. With the exception of Hamilton all triple or more WDC had leadership as one of their main skills.
(Hamilton hasn't had the need to do this in his career).
So you are saying he is the most skilled F1 driver, but he is bad because he cause friction with his bosses? That means, he is the best driver (that answers the question of this topic) but he is fairy cakes at having a good relation with his boss (which has nothing to do with driving).
Interesting. Perhaps I should have stated "best F1 competitor" with it having to be one of the drivers. So, the ability to race across the full gamut of conditions and circumstances; to give good feedback and help develop the car; to extract the most out of their circumstance, which includes being adept at setting up the car or performing in a car that might be compromised for various reasons such as a team underperforming or the car not aligning to one's typical strengths; to create a team environment that encourages the most possible progress and evolution.

Warheart01

Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Warheart01 »

Allright. :thumbup:
I haven't given it much though as to who I think was the best driver of 2015. But I guess it's between Vettel and Hamilton. Both had their offdays.
It's difficult to judge Alonso when he was so far back with that car he had and had to retire so much.
Rosberg improved from 2014 but still had too many unnecessary mistakes mostly during pressure. But he ended the last 3 races exceptionally well.

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Invade »

Warheart01 wrote:Allright. :thumbup:
I haven't given it much though as to who I think was the best driver of 2015. But I guess it's between Vettel and Hamilton. Both had their offdays.
It's difficult to judge Alonso when he was so far back with that car he had and had to retire so much.
Rosberg improved from 2014 but still had too many unnecessary mistakes mostly during pressure. But he ended the last 3 races exceptionally well.
Yeah, for me it has to be between those two. Ricciardo didn't really kick on so impressively from his 2014 campaign, even accounting for his team circumstances. Verstappen did impress in many ways but it's way-way-way too premature for me to seriously consider him, and it's not like he outclassed an established top level driver, but rather another rookie. Nobody from Williams was that impressive and the Force India drivers were fairly equal on the whole. The McLaren Honda drivers are too neutered to properly judge.

I'm very intrigued by the first half of this season, because I'm wondering if Hamilton can really keep staying on it as he has done, with the same intensity including all hi extracurricular activities, and if Rosberg can carry over any momentum from the end of the 2015 and get off to a fast start for the 2016 season. Then there's Ferrari - I root for Mercedes and typically Hamilton (though this year Rosberg) but hope that Ferrari can truly match Mercedes this year. The spectacle is the most important aspect, of course.

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Zoue »

I think Alonso is the best driver on the grid: it's such a shame that he's not been able to show his talent last year. It's quite hard to see any weakness he might have. I'd put Vettel in 2nd place. Yes, he had a (relatively) poor 2014, but I don't think struggling with one car's handling makes him a poor driver. I was very impressed with him last year and the way he made the podium almost guaranteed when his ex WDC team mate struggled to finish close to him. He almost always look like a threat.

I'd put Lewis a very close 3rd. On his day he's as good as anyone but I can't shake off the fact that even in the all-conquering Mercedes on the rare occasions where they've been in the pack he's often looked ragged and anything but supreme. I think he's a bit scrappier than the other two.

4th place goes to Ricciardo. You just know in a decent car he'll get a result. It's just a shame that last year the car didn't allow him to shine.

I struggle a bit with 5th. Kimi can be great on his day but his day is looking more and more rare these days. If the car suits, and if he can keep the tyres warm, and if there's a R in the month - you get the picture. When he's on form he's up there but he has far too many weaknesses to be considered among the best. I also rate Rosberg very low for racecraft and think the Mercedes has flattered him immensely. I might go with Button. He has racecraft to match the best and, although he's not quite as quick as Lewis he's still plenty fast.

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Amon »

For me Alonso so close winning the WDC in a Ferrari twice that clearly wasn't the best of the pack. If Seb can do that well yeah than I will buy the Seb miracle man stuff but at this moment there is nothing that makes me believe he did something extraordinary in a car that was second best overall and even stronger than Merc on some tracks.
Besides I haven't seen Alonso having a bad season according to the equipment like Seb in 2014 or Lewis that one season in Macca when Jenson got second.
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Invade
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Invade »

One hopes (at least I hope) that McLaren-Honda can get into a position that offers Alonso a chance for a further WDC in 2017. It won't happen this year.

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by steoc4 »

I'd have to say Vettel right now.

I don't want to write off Alonso simply because of the car, but even in 2014 before he left Ferrari he was starting to look comparatively unmotivated, he's not getting any younger, and with nothing to strive for last year or potentially this year either, I have my doubts about whether he could get back to his previous peak performance if he moved back to a top team for 2017. I'd be very happy to be proved wrong though.

Nobody else on the grid has come close to those two over the last decade or so.

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by sandman1347 »

In all honesty:

1. Hamilton-He's in his prime and his confidence level is higher than it's ever been. I think in terms of raw ability he is the best and he has the experience now to avoid the things that can cost you titles (like race-ending crashes). In identical machinery, I'd pick Hamilton over any other driver.

2. Alonso-Very close to Hamilton. A few years ago I probably would have given Alonso the slight edge but on current form, I cannot. In as much as you can separate the driver from the car, Alonso has performed to a high standard. The problem is that his cars for the last two years have been slow and he's struggling to stay interested.

3. Ricciardo-This is a tough one but I think that he belongs here in terms of talent. I base it largely on his performance against Vettel in identical machinery (where he was clearly the superior driver) and his overall racecraft. Daniel has top class talent but his timing is not good. Arriving at Red Bull just in time for them to be dropped into the midfield.

4. Vettel-Also close but IMO there are 4-5 guys who could absolutely hang with Vettel in identical machinery. He brings the complete package both on track and off. Most of all, Seb has more ambition than either Hamilton or Alonso. He's chasing those records and they matter to him.

5. Button/Rosberg-Button has top-class racecraft but perhaps not outright unbelievable speed. Rosberg has top-class speed but not amazing racecraft. They're both just a half notch down from the top guys.

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Badgeronimous »

Very hard to gauge.

Obviously circumstances, weather conditions, track characteristics and car characteristics will vary the outcome. On a drying/changeable track for instance, few drivers can match Button.

I'd pick Hamilton to win a one off race. However, I still think, of the 'big 3' drivers in F1... Hamilton is the most likely to implode for 3-4 races at a time when things aren't going well. Confident and on form, Hamilton is very hard to beat, but.... he is a fragile creature who can be rattled and get ragged. I'm unsure I could pick him to win over a season in equal machinery.

Alonso probably was the best driver, but I'm unsure if the last 2-3 seasons coupled with the fact he's getting older, has seen him lose heart. The acceptance that title #3 is looking increasingly unlikely, must surely be disheartening.
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Fountoukos13 »

Warheart01 wrote:
Fountoukos13 wrote:
Warheart01 wrote:
Invade wrote:I meant in terms of overall driving ability as well as the ability for a driver to integrate themselves into a team and to help setup the car - the whole package. I also was asking based on not too distant form. I find it hard to think that Raikkonen is one of the top-5 CURRENT drivers on form and ability. It's a long time now since he won the WDC and he's been spanked recently in emphatic fashion by Alonso and Vettel. However, any and all angles are welcome, of course.

Just for the record thoughl on recent-ish form I think Raikkonen can't even sniff top 5, whereas Vettel, by comparison, was arguably the best driver of the 2015 season.
How so? His Bahrain and Mexico race was utter sh*t tbh. It was paydriver-in-a-good-car bad. Nothing against Vettel (anymore) but I'd like to hear your motivation.

On topic, best on the grid is still probably Alonso.
During the race Alonso is probably the most skilled. He is cunning and that helps him a lot. But in all other areas i think he is not that good. For example he has a tendency to create friction with his bosses, the cars he drives tend to become worse with each passing year. For example Ferrari (2010-2014) with the exception of 2013 each year was worse than before. He is clearly a great driver but what he lacks and i think is the reason why he hasn't gotten his 3rd championship is leadership. With the exception of Hamilton all triple or more WDC had leadership as one of their main skills.
(Hamilton hasn't had the need to do this in his career).
So you are saying he is the most skilled F1 driver, but he is bad because he cause friction with his bosses? That means, he is the best driver (that answers the question of this topic) but he is fairy cakes at having a good relation with his boss (which has nothing to do with driving).
It does because friction creates tension and uncertainty inside the whole team and also takes some of the focus of the driver away from his target. The highest amount of skill even in the most important area (ie: Driving the race) doesn't mean being the best. I'm sorry but as i said earlier the being the best takes into account the results. Skill, effort, luck, help and potential are all needed and even more. At some point in the mid 00s Raikkonen was thought to be the best on the grid, was he though? No because the results said otherwise. Late 00s the same with Lewis.
Results are what count towards the best. Is Alonso the most skilled? IMO yes. Is he the fastest? No. These two are different questions. Being the best is another one. Overall he is not the best because he doesn't reach the target that is the championship.

mikeyg123
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Alonso comfortably. Hamilton and Vettel next. Ricciardo and Button the next two.

Alonso's 06 and 12 far surpasses anything anyone else has done.

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Fountoukos13
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Fountoukos13 »

From what i see the question is about the current overall ability of driving an F1 car from the current drivers on the grid and not on who is the best f1 driver on the grid.

Anyway based on what we saw most recently i would go with Vettel followed by Hamilton, Alonso, Ricciardo and Button.

Perez and Grosjean also were pretty good last year as well while Hulk and Bottas were a bit meh and Rosberg managed to get it sorted in the end, but we should see if it continues this year as well

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Fountoukos13 »

mikeyg123 wrote:Alonso comfortably. Hamilton and Vettel next. Ricciardo and Button the next two.

Alonso's 06 and 12 far surpasses anything anyone else has done.
I'm sorry although not an Alonso fan i have to say that you are wrong. What he did in the crap with wheels named R29 back in 2009 was mind boggling. The car was a total disaster, the team was in the midst of a scandal and Renault were looking to sell the team and he got Poles (yeah i know low fuel runs, still genuinely inside Q3 most of the time) and PODIUMS! in a car that should be at least a lap down...

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by aice »

Leaving my initial choice of Bernd Maylände aisde... :lol: :lol:

The team bosses seem to think Hamilton is the best and I wouldn’t disagree with them. A couple of years ago, for me, Alonso was easily the "benchmark". But I genuinely believe that Hamilton has now surpassed him. As a driver, Hamilton is quick and has matured to become more “rounded”. My top 3 would be Hamilton, followed by Alonso & then maybe Vettel or Ricciardo for 3rd. Without going into detail, they all have their various strengths & weaknesses. But for me, one of the best measures of raw ability is how a driver performs against another driver in equal machinery. Not only do I think that Hamilton has dealt with "tougher" team-mates than Vettel, but he has also beaten and outperformed Alonso in equal machinery. Hamilton gets my vote.
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Colesy917 »

Top 5 for me: Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, Ricciardo, Raikkonen/Button.
Raikkonen Bottas Ricciardo

Thanks for the memories Nico

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by Mercedes-Benz »

Most are good and top6 I think can be the best drivers. So impossible to tell.

But on current form and overall looking at qualifying, race, wet, overtaking Hamilton is the best driver. Vettel also is good in all areas though in overtaking I would say Hamilton is better. Nico Rosberg is the 3rd best driver IMO. He is probably more clean driver and not so aggressive but get max out of the car. I think radio ban might affect him more he is very technical driver too. But qualifying, wet conditions, race, looking after car. Monaco obviously he is very good. Can't see much wrong in him :-|
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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by mikeyg123 »

Fountoukos13 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:Alonso comfortably. Hamilton and Vettel next. Ricciardo and Button the next two.

Alonso's 06 and 12 far surpasses anything anyone else has done.
I'm sorry although not an Alonso fan i have to say that you are wrong. What he did in the crap with wheels named R29 back in 2009 was mind boggling. The car was a total disaster, the team was in the midst of a scandal and Renault were looking to sell the team and he got Poles (yeah i know low fuel runs, still genuinely inside Q3 most of the time) and PODIUMS! in a car that should be at least a lap down...
At times that was the slowest car on the grid.

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by mds »

aice wrote: The team bosses seem to think Hamilton is the best and I wouldn’t disagree with them.
Team bosses poll is about the past year. Vettel and Alonso traded #1 and #2 spots from 2010 to 2013.
Go Vandoorne :( - Verstappen - Vettel!

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by IDrinkYourMilkshake »

mikeyg123 wrote:Alonso comfortably. Hamilton and Vettel next. Ricciardo and Button the next two.

Alonso's 06 and 12 far surpasses anything anyone else has done.
People here seem to be forgetting 2014, and some even mentioned it as a year where he performed below his standards.

In his own words, his 2014 season was even better than 2012, and I think I'll agree, an even worse car, and he made NO mistake all year, and brought unbelievable results.
And that is saying something, since his 2012 season is considered by many to be one of the greatest performance over a season by any driver. But even then, he had a racing incident in Japan he could've avoided, but then, when you're on the ragged edge all year, fighting faster cars, one racing incident is nothing.
Last edited by IDrinkYourMilkshake on Fri Mar 18, 2016 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Just who is the best F1 driver on the grid?

Post by IDrinkYourMilkshake »

So, my top driver would be: Alonso.

In one isolated qualifying, he may not be the fastest. But in almost every race, he is amongst the best, or in a league of his own. And despite being faster than others, he makes LESS mistakes, hardly ever has an accident despite having one of the best racecraft and overtaking, and then does this more consistently over many races and seasons combined.

The fact that he is almost always the fastest and the best overtaker, yet is MORE consistent and accident-free, is mind-boggling. I've never seen this trait in any other driver. Not even Schumacher. And I was a rabid Schumacher fanatic, to put it very, very mildly.

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